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Bungie comments on Halo 2 cheating on Live - out of hand, autoupdate coming

Chittagong

Gold Member
Weekly What's Update : Cheaters!

Foul play, cheating and general harassment are things that most all of us have encountered at one point or another during our Halo 2 online adventures. While anyone who has played games online will tell you that these issues are nothing new, the sheer scope and volume of Halo 2 have amplified these problems into something that is affecting a much large number of players. To put it simply, the more people there are playing Halo 2 online, the greater the number of troublemakers to deal with. In addition, if you factor in some of the recent "soft mod" exploits and the ease in which they are implemented, it's easy to see why these scenarios are becoming more and more common. Yes, this sucks and we hate it as much as you do.

Everyone has a lot of questions about cheating – what's happening, what's being done about it, etc… This week we try to address the most common concerns and shed some light into what we've been doing and will be doing to continue addressing the problem of cheating in our online community. For additional information, please keep an eye on the Bungie.net Cheating FAQ.

Why isn't Bungie or Xbox Live doing anything about the rampant cheating in Halo 2?
Actually, we are. Right now we ask that you please be patient as we continue to wade through literally thousands and thousands of emails dealing with alleged cheaters. The Halo 2 online population is humongous – nearly 500,000 unique people play Halo 2 every day accounting for well over 1 million recorded matches. That's a ton of data to sift through and we are trying to keep up as best we can. We realize this is still only half the battle and we are taking additional measures to not only improve our banning but to greatly reduce the instances of cheating that are occurring.

In addition to our efforts, the Xbox Live Team is continuing to track and monitor in-game feedback and they are enforcing the Code of Conduct and Terms of Use for the Live Service.

It seems like almost every game I play involves someone who has hacked their Xbox to run super fast, jump super high or some other unfair exploit. What gives?

Hacking or "modding" isn't a new phenomenon in the Halo universe. With Halo 1, many fans found ways to do interesting things with the game by either using a modified Xbox or some form of "soft modded" application. We have never condoned tampering with the hardware or game code in any way but back in the day, it wasn't ever a huge issue since it only impacted individuals who elected to tweak their own experience.

Now with Halo 2 online, these same types of tricks and exploits are being used to impact innocent players. This problem has become worse recently due to the release of the downloadable multiplayer maps for Halo 2. These maps reside on the consoles hard drive and as such are more vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation. These aren't the only instances of modding or hacking but they are the most prominent.

Our team is aware of the types of activity taking place as well as the websites and individuals who are propagating these files through the community. Anyone who is found to be using hacked tags or modified game content will be PERMANENTLY banned from Halo 2 matchmaking. This is a serious issue and we will not be issuing any warnings. In addition, the Microsoft Legal Team is pursuing any websites or individuals found to be distributing Halo 2 game files or content.

The old saying "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" may seem more tempting than ever but you should resist the callings of the dark side. Right now we are trying to keep up with modders but admittedly we're a step or two behind. However, we have changes coming very soon that will substantially increase our ability to detect and more importantly, QUICKLY ban anyone found using hacks on Live. Things will be rough for a little while longer but then we should see a very quick purging of these types of players.
Please note that contrary to some rumors floating around the internet, this does not solely apply to ranked games. Anyone using modified content or hacks in any game of Halo 2 over Xbox Live is subject to the full wrath of the Bungie Banhammer. You have been warned.

If the downloadable maps are where the problem lies, won't things get worse when the next 5 are released? Why should I buy them if I'm just going to get matched against hackers?

We realize that once the new maps are released they will open up additional avenues for hackers to exploit them in matchmaking. We anticipate this only being an issue immediately following the map release. Shortly after, we have some changes coming that should make a significant impact towards reducing map hacks encountered on Xbox Live.

In the meantime, it is possible that players who purchase the new maps and choose to play in one of the "Preview" playlists will face people using hacked content to their advantage. We will be continuing to monitor our data and the H2cheats alias to ban people as appropriate.

Does anyone actually monitor the H2cheats alias? I've reported several people but they are still playing.

Absolutely. Since we launched the cheater hotline alias, we have received well over 10,000 email reports of alleged cheating. Yes, TEN THOUSAND. That number is simply astonishing and it’s a painful reminder for all of us here of just how bad this problem has become. We take our banning seriously and its important for us to thoroughly investigate allegations before we decide to issue a ban. The fact is that this takes time, and the flood of mail is currently more than we can handle in a reasonable time frame.

Players who encounter cheaters are encouraged to continue to submit email but we ask that you please be patient with us as we do our best to keep up. We are catching people and we are taking actions, it's just taking a little longer than we would like.

How many people have been banned so far?

The Bungie Banhammer has been dropped on nearly 3,200 people to date. Currently, approximately 2,600 players have active bans in place. We realize that this is probably a drop in the bucket but we are continuing to make progress.

We don't have access to the Xbox Live Team data so we can't comment on how many people have been banned due to negative feedback resulting from racist remarks, threats, poor conduct, etc...

What exactly are people being banned for nowadays?

Our highest priority is removing players who are using hacked or modified game content on Live. We consider this to be the most severe offense and we are permanently banning everyone we catch. Teammates and clans who ride the coat tails of someone using hacks in order to inflate their ranking are also being banned. We are currently using the reports submitted via H2cheats along with game data we gather to make these determinations.
Secondly, we are banning people who manipulate their network connections to their advantage. The "standby" exploit is greatly reduced but people still attempt to use it to screw their opponents. We can detect this and bans are being issues for players meeting specific criteria. Reports of standby attacks are way down so there has been good progress in this area both through banning and changes implemented in the last auto update.

Players and clans who "boost" their way up the leaderboards are also being banned and removed from the leaderboards. In addition, the Live team continues to track negative player feedback and ban players as appropriate for violating their Code of Conduct and Terms of Use.

Ok, fine, but whatever you're doing it clearly isn't enough. There are still tons of people cheating every day with no end in site…

Yes, unfortunately this seems to be the case. We are doing our best to keep up but we agree it's not quite enough. This is why we have been spending development time on a new auto update for Halo 2 that will employ additional anti-cheating mechanisms to purge these evildoers from our community. We are very optimistic that the auto update will greatly reduce the instances of hacked and modified content on Xbox Live.

When will this new auto update be available? Will there be any noticeable changes to the game?

The auto update is currently undergoing a test pass and if all goes well, we anticipate it will be released on Xbox Live around the second week of July. This does mean that the new maps will be released beforehand, potentially resulting in a small spike in hacker encounters, but it will quickly level out when the update is implemented.
The AU is a "behind-the-scenes" change only and will not impact the actual gameplay or experience itself. Once it is released, players will be forced to download it in order to play any game of Halo 2 on Xbox Live.

I tried to enter Halo 2 matchmaking and it's telling me that I've been banned. What's going on? I haven't done anything wrong!

Occasionally innocent people may get caught in the fallout of our anti-cheater crusade. While this is unfortunate, overall it is a risk we have to take for the greater good of the overall online population. The only time someone will even possibly be banned inaccurately will be if they are flagged by our quality of service monitor. These tools detect the use of standby and suspicious network interruptions and over time will accrue enough to warrant a ban.

It is possible that innocent players who have a consistently spotty internet connection might get caught in the crossfire. If you regularly encounter connectivity issues, have low bandwidth, wireless interruptions or any other consistent service issue, you could end up being banned from matchmaking. If you feel you have been wrongly banned, please send a polite email to h2cheats@microsoft.com explaining your predicament and we will follow-up. To help our efforts, please indicate the nature of your mail in the subject line. We will do our best to investigate your mail in a timely manner but please be patient as the sheer volume of mail we receive could cause delays.

If you continue experiencing the network issues listed above, please be aware that you will likely end up being banned again once you accumulate enough negative data. To minimize that risk, please take steps to improve your connection when possible and if you have low bandwidth, avoid playing in playlists that push your connection to its limits. Big Team Battle games require more bandwidth than Head to Head or Double Team, so if you experience issues, please try to play within the limits of your connection. While you're not technically cheating, your connection irregularities are causing a poor experience for other players in your game.

Every time I enter a game there's always some jerk who insists on spewing insults, racial remarks or some other offensive comment. I didn't buy Halo 2 to be treated like this.

What is Bungie doing to clean things up?

There's nothing that Bungie can actually do to thwart jerks who insist on being mean, crude and rude to other players. In these instances, your best defense is to use the in-game feedback system and report them to the Xbox Live team. As players accumulate negative feedback, they will face punishments ranging from a 24 hour ban to a permanent cancellation of their account. You can also mute players so you never have to hear from them again.

Special Bonus Non-Cheating Questions!

When do the new maps come out!?

On Tuesday, July 5th, five new maps will be available for download over Xbox Live for $11.99. Around the same day (in some cases earlier), the Halo 2 Multiplayer Map Pack disc will be available at retailers for $19.99. This disc includes all nine new multiplayer maps, a special cinematic, behind-the-scenes documentary and all prior Halo 2 auto updates (including the recent gameplay tweaks).

The first four multiplayer maps (Turf, Sanctuary, Warlock and Containment) can all be downloaded for free via Xbox Live right now. The remaining five maps will be available as free downloads starting August 30 th.

My local retailer already started selling the new maps, I heard I'll be banned if I play them online before Tuesday. Is this true?

No. Nobody is being banned for playing the new maps early.

How do we play the new maps on Xbox Live?

Initially, the new maps can only be played in custom games between players who have purchased them. Our current plans are to update the Matchmaking Playlists on Monday, July 11th at which time the five new maps will be available for play in the "Team Preview" and "Rumble Preview" playlists. You will only be able to access these playlists if you have the new maps installed on your Xbox.

We will have more information about the map release, downloadable content in general and playlist updates next week on Bungie.net.

Where's Frankie!?

Frankie is still out touring Europe as a bagpipe playing, kilt wearing street performer. We hope to see him next week, provided he earns enough to cover his trip home. In the meantime, he was kind enough to send along this photo.

http://www.bungie.net/News/TopStory.aspx?story=cheatz&p=3800195
 

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Reading through those e-mails must be tortuous and hilarious at the same time. "omfg i was just playing and this guy was cheating so bad i like shot him in the head six times and he wouldn't die"
 

strikeselect

You like me, you really really like me!
Thank god, all these damn cheaters are the reason I stopped playing Team Preview and why I cringe everytime I encounter Warlock in Skirmish or Slayer.
 

akascream

Banned
I've been accused of cheating in Conker because I had like 59 kills (omg!). I'm convinced more people on Xbox Live are fucking morons than there are people cheating. But anti-cheating announcements are always good yay.
 

blackadde

Member
I thought one of the most important selling points of Live was the lack of cheaters?

(it doesn't exist, that's why I pay, etcetera)
 

akascream

Banned
Prine said:
Is there anyway to ban kids under 17??? That would make H2 experiece much better


If you banned kids under 17, Xbox live would practically cease to exist. That or everyone is using a pre-pubescant voice filter of some kind.
 

ChrisReid

Member
blackadde said:
I thought one of the most important selling points of Live was the lack of cheaters?

(it doesn't exist, that's why I pay, etcetera)

$50 a year won't achieve the impossible, nor have I ever heard zero cheating as a selling point. You can't ever 100% stop people from exploiting everything. But by subscribing to Live you do belong to a service where cheaters can and are banned.
 

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
ChrisReid said:
$50 a year won't achieve the impossible, nor have I ever heard zero cheating as a selling point. You can't ever 100% stop people from exploiting everything. But by subscribing to Live you do belong to a service where cheaters can and are banned.

I really doubt that cheaters ever get banned. I hoenstly think that whole "we banned people for standbying" crap months ago was just a lame scare tactic that worked for 1 week.

The cheats in H2 however have gotten REALLY bad. Rapid fire battle rifles? how lame. At least when I OGC hacked CS I had some decency to exploit fun things.
 

SKluck

Banned
Glad I stopped playing 7 months ago. Fuck Bungie. This kind of cheating is unacceptable, considering you can't run any scripts or custom programs/software to help. I can't even imagine how they would react if they made a popular PC game where its 100x easier to cheat.

Yet there is less cheating in CS than Halo 2, hmm.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Wario64 said:
i hope nintendo online games have cheaters just for spite
What, you think I'm just saying that because it's Halo 2?

Cheating sucks, no matter what it's on.
 

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
Part of Bungies problem with Halo 2's cheating is their stupidity thinking that they can utilize the blanket system of patching a game as popular as it.

If you look at any other high traffic FPS during thier prime, they had patches for fixing up the larger stuff at an almost weekly interval. None of this "We have to fully test shit out 100% blah blah" that bungie seems to have a hard on for.

Patch the large shit when it comes up and then go after the smaller stuff in a future patch. I would rather patch H2 10 times and keep the chaingun style battle rifle out of matchmaking, then wait 10 months for them to finally nix it along with 1000 other useless other bugs that didn't even effect competative online play.

Imagine if a virus scanner used the blanket system.....*shudder*.....
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
I've actually lost TWO ranks during the last two days because of cheaters and quitters. It's against all odds, I should have a 50/50 chance of ending up in the better team of the two.

- The rapid runners are the most common.
- Then I've had fucking idiots who in team slayer do on purposes so many suicides that it's impossible to win.
- What I hate most, however, is quitters. I get in a team of six or seven and then three players quit. Yay, impossible to win. But I can't quit or I'll get more minus points and my grade will go down even more.
- Or the idiots who don't even try. They just shout to their friends and run around random.

I'm very seriously considering cancelling my Live subscription. This isn't fun at all and not the Living Entertainment Experience Powered by Human Energy I want to be part of.
 

Ramirez

Member
I just play training when I do play the game now,the next game should just have your rank hidden,I really believe that the ranks is what leads to most of the cheating...people and their e-peens. >_<
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Ramirez said:
I just play training when I do play the game now,the next game should just have your rank hidden,I really believe that the ranks is what leads to most of the cheating...people and their e-peens. >_<

i agree. rankings ruins online gaming. i know, i used to play quake 2 just so i can get a high number on my stats. you get too uptight about winning and you don't play to have fun.
 

LukeSmith

Member
Ardent defender of this game that I once was, I just don't play it anymore.

Matchmaking is miserable anyway because of cheaters. Just like Duderon and I said it would be before the last "cheating" patch.
 

duderon

rollin' in the gutter
Customs win again! Great competition and no dickheads that ruin your fun. The only thing that makes Halo 2 bearable for me.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Aaarrrrggghhh!!! Again... I start 2 flag CTF in a 15 player game in the team that has only 7 guys. A guy from my team quits immediately due to the shorthand. So we are only 6 against 8. Three more people leave immediately and I get two swallow the negative points, again.

Is PC gaming online better? I'm seriously so furious that I'm considering a high-end gaming PC instead of a Xbox 360. Live really, really seems to suck.
 

Syb

Member
Another AutoUpdate?

Does that mean the rankings will be reset again?

I just got to Level 22. :(

People should go down levels for quiting games. It peeves me off so much!
 
Halo 2 was an almost utopian community the first couple of months, but once the cheating started I just bailed out. I actually sold my Xbox, because it was the only exlusive game I played for it. I was thinking of picking one up again for the Halo 2 map pack, but this response from Bungie doesn't really convince me that they'll sort everything out.

BF2 it is!
 

FiRez

Member
Chittagong said:
Aaarrrrggghhh!!! Again... I start 2 flag CTF in a 15 player game in the team that has only 7 guys. A guy from my team quits immediately due to the shorthand. So we are only 6 against 8. Three more people leave immediately and I get two swallow the negative points, again.

Is PC gaming online better? I'm seriously so furious that I'm considering a high-end gaming PC instead of a Xbox 360. Live really, really seems to suck.

So your opinion about Live is just based on one game?
 

Stench

Banned
Chittagong said:
Aaarrrrggghhh!!! Again... I start 2 flag CTF in a 15 player game in the team that has only 7 guys. A guy from my team quits immediately due to the shorthand. So we are only 6 against 8. Three more people leave immediately and I get two swallow the negative points, again.

Is PC gaming online better? I'm seriously so furious that I'm considering a high-end gaming PC instead of a Xbox 360. Live really, really seems to suck.
I think Xbox Live really seemed to filter out a lot of the morons who plagued PC gaming -all the dumb little shits got their folks to buy them Xboxes instead of an uber-expensive computer. I've been playing a lot of BF2, and suffice to say, I haven't had even a fraction of the amount of shit I witnessed in Halo 2.

Man, I'm STILL pissed off about Halo 2 on Live.
 

blackadde

Member
Chittagong said:
Is PC gaming online better? I'm seriously so furious that I'm considering a high-end gaming PC instead of a Xbox 360. Live really, really seems to suck.

More than anything this is on a game-to-game basis.
 
Chittagong said:
Aaarrrrggghhh!!! Again... I start 2 flag CTF in a 15 player game in the team that has only 7 guys. A guy from my team quits immediately due to the shorthand. So we are only 6 against 8. Three more people leave immediately and I get two swallow the negative points, again.

Is PC gaming online better? I'm seriously so furious that I'm considering a high-end gaming PC instead of a Xbox 360. Live really, really seems to suck.

Wow, take some deep breaths! ;) Ok, there are a few things you can do to improve you Live Halo2 experience:

1 - Screw matchmaking, the Halo 2 community stinks. Play custom games with people on your friends list.

Well, ok, thats pretty much it :) ... but seriously, play some other games if Halo 2 is getting to you so much. Play some nice sports or racing games for a change of pace. Pick up Top Spin, or Rallisport 2! Theres lots of good games on live, with good people. Halo 2 is pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel community wise.

And don't complain that you don't want to play another game, you want to play Halo 2, because you sure as heck aint going to get that by switching to PC, heh.

Also, try out Team Battle instead of Big Team. Big Team has WAY more quitters.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
FiRez said:
So your opinion about Live is just based on one game?

Well, I have played Burnout 3, RSC2, PGR2, MM3 and Wolfenstein online.

As a genre fitting online gaming, you can't beat FPSs. Burnout 3 could have been extremelly cool if it would have had all the modes that are in two player. Racing games aren't very rewarding online, unless you set up games with friends. Wolfenstein could have been fun, but there never was a sufficient amount of people online. MM3 doesn't let me online anymore for some reason.

So, no - my opinion is not based on one game only. However, the one game that would be absolutely perfect for online gaming is ruined completely, and that pisses me off to no end.
 

Joe

Member
during counter-strikes peak (is it still peaking?) cheating was 10x worse than it is on halo2.

like ANY online game on ANY platform you're going to have the best experience when you play with friends or trusted people you have played online with in the past.

its not just xbox live, its online gaming as a whole.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
the only difference here is that you're paying money to play in an environment that isn't cheat-proof


Oracle Dragon said:
Doesnt GAF have some kind of Xbox Live players list? Im sure people on there would be good to play with.


haha, gaffers only play new games for like a week, then they go to the next new game. flavor of the week.
 
wow, bungine is slow...

i remember back in october i mentioned that some people were doing things like playing Halo 2 online via softmods and people were like "yeah right, xbox live is invincible" etc...

...

whatever...

i mean, i like live, but there's some shady stuff going on...
 

FiRez

Member
Chittagong said:
Well, I have played Burnout 3, RSC2, PGR2, MM3 and Wolfenstein online.

As a genre fitting online gaming, you can't beat FPSs. Burnout 3 could have been extremelly cool if it would have had all the modes that are in two player. Racing games aren't very rewarding online, unless you set up games with friends. Wolfenstein could have been fun, but there never was a sufficient amount of people online. MM3 doesn't let me online anymore for some reason.

So, no - my opinion is not based on one game only. However, the one game that would be absolutely perfect for online gaming is ruined completely, and that pisses me off to no end.

I think you were too late for the prime time on wolfestein, I'm not in defense of Halo 2 but I've some good experiences with Crimson Skies and Unreal Championship 2
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Oracle Dragon said:
Yeah, tell me about it. PHANTOM freaking DUST. Boy, did I miss that train.

yeah, i missed it too. i played only 1 night of Phantom Dust with GAFFERS then I got caught up with the PSP launch. couple weeks later, i sign back on and i see no one playing. im glad gamestop offered that $20 rebate or i'd be pissed :p
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
I've been playing Halo 2 online 2-5 hours every night the last few weeks and I have concluded GAFfers don't play games. I check the GAF clan members between every match, and so far I've seen only some guy play Conker and Wario64 play Halo 2 campaign or something.

Doing endless PS3 vs. Xbox 360 threads that always end up with the SH3 pic is time consuming!
 

Pachinko

Member
Yeah , looks like I'm not alone in the live sucks circle of thinking. I'm glad I have it free for like 7 months , I got a free year subscription card becuase MS couldn't get a mech assault 2 demo disc to me. It's just kind of a waste really, it sucks for 90% of the games unless you have a bunch of freinds to play with. I think what I should do is delete my entire freinds list and start anew.

How many of you guys would want to have a legitimate game of Halo2 online ? I was in the GAF clan back when the game came out last november but I've only ever played it online perhaps 6 times.
 
Yeah, the modding in the Team Preview list is out of hand. It sucks that Turf and Sanctuary are going to be in Slayer and Skirmish soon now too, because the modding will now expand into those lists.
 

RuGalz

Member
ouch, it certainly sounds like since Live service is the one collecting statistics and Bungie (or any other developer) don't have direct access to it therefore there's a bigger turn around time to find exploits and do something about it. That's going to be a headache when there's more online games.
 

TheDuce22

Banned
Somehow I doubt many of the cheaters are the ones that actually subscribe to the service. What kind of moron would throw away 50 bucks just to win a few games. Most of them probably just got their hands on some free coupons.
 
Pachinko said:
Yeah , looks like I'm not alone in the live sucks circle of thinking. I'm glad I have it free for like 7 months , I got a free year subscription card becuase MS couldn't get a mech assault 2 demo disc to me. It's just kind of a waste really, it sucks for 90% of the games unless you have a bunch of freinds to play with. I think what I should do is delete my entire freinds list and start anew.

How many of you guys would want to have a legitimate game of Halo2 online ? I was in the GAF clan back when the game came out last november but I've only ever played it online perhaps 6 times.

Ill join in any legit Halo2 games you have.

WARNING: I stink at this game.
 
TheDuce22 said:
Somehow I doubt many of the cheaters are the ones that actually subscribe to the service. What kind of moron would throw away 50 bucks just to win a few games. Most of them probably just got their hands on some free coupons.
nah, people actually pay to cheat and even buy more xboxes/eeproms/etc and get more gamertags when they're banned...

yes, seriously...
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
RuGalz said:
ouch, it certainly sounds like since Live service is the one collecting statistics and Bungie (or any other developer) don't have direct access to it therefore there's a bigger turn around time to find exploits and do something about it. That's going to be a headache when there's more online games.
that's still not an excuse.

Bungie is a part of Microsoft.

Microsoft owns the servers.
 

RuGalz

Member
Still doesn't mean they have direct access to the server, modify the server however they want in order to collect more data if needed etc.
 
Demigod Mac said:
Deja-vu.

Anyone who played Myth and Myth II on bungie.net will understand.

OMG THE COMET CAMPZ N CHEATS!

I thought Bungie would have learned something with all the Myth ranking system problems... but it has seemed to only get worse as their games expanded to a wider audience.

That said I must be in the sweet spot of the ranking system where no one bothers to cheat. Lower double digits = rock.
 
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