Bungie Responds to Recent Feedback on Destiny 2

#51
Cancelled my PC preorder a few days ago but I'd definitely buy it if they impressed me with a detailed future plan for endgame, gear and exotics.
 
#54
you don't need silver to buy shaders? just dismantle ghosts, ships, sparrows or armor you get from the bright engrams. i probably have had at least 4000+ bright dust without paying a cent.
I honestly didn't know that because I've never dismantled ships and sparrows. but I'm a collector! in any case even eververse is half hassed, right now there's not much to buy and it's random anyway
 
#57
yep for sure, I almost certainly would have impulse bought it if it released at the same time as the console versions. So I'm happy it didn't.
The game is awesome.

These complaints are mostly from people who play 100s of hours.

I'm happy enough to play a 100 odd hours then maybe casually the odd time til the next dlc drops.
 
#61
The echo chamber of negativity regarding D2 on here is nuts. D2 has improved on D1 in every conceivable way but now we have these extremely vocal sperglords and streamers who've burned through the content at an absurd rate complaining about the lack of endgame and asking for the godawful random stats on weapon/armor drops back so they can have some shitty reasons to grind instead just playing the game like a normal person. I don't get it.
I barely play and I'm at around 256 light IIRC. I haven't done much but mess around on the map hitting community events.

I stopped playing about two weeks ago because I don't see much point.
 
#64
The game is awesome.

These complaints are mostly from people who play 100s of hours.

I'm happy enough to play a 100 odd hours then maybe casually the odd time til the next dlc drops.
Yea, not true at all, or at the very least extremely misleading. After around 40-50 hours (With three characters, including leveling of each character in this figure), mostly comprised of grinding and patrols (At least half, if not more of that time) to higher light levels, I had basically completed everything available outside of PVP event participation. My main playgroup comprised of light levels between 280-290 effectively stopped playing after the second raid clear. I just checked their playtime on wasted on Destiny 2, and they are sub 50 hours, one of my buddies has two full level characters, three raid clears, a few nightfall prestige clears and has 51 hours. Based on the random groups we had played with and the first raid being a blind clear, I know at least 15 hours of those were the raid. Probably 12 are from his second character.

So that leaves ~25 hours, where he expended all of the content, including grinding for gear to be raid ready.

I'd say if light level did not exist, you could effectively experience all the content the game has to offer within a 20 hour window.

So you say, what makes Diablo, Path of Exile or any other loot based game any different, you could clear the game and all content in like 15 hours etc. Ahhhh very true, however the gameplay loop, allows for scalability of content, and the system allows of randomization of enemies and every other experience. Kind of like the Nightfall offers a small peak into. Then of course you also have actually interesting gear and builds to play around with to see what you can accomplish. Something D1 was severely lacking in, however, compared to D2, it's night and day.
 
#65
Maybe a huge step back from Destiny 1 in AoT/RoI era, but no way it's a step back from Destiny 1 at the same time after launch...just the campaign by itself gave me more enjoyment than the whole of D1 at launch (sans Loot Cave 1.0, that was good times lol).

If we see the same amount of improvement from expansion to expansion with D2 as we did D1, D2 will be a juggernaut again pretty darn soon IMO.
End game...

Destiny 2 end game is basically The Division bad.

Destiny vanilla end of game was great.
 
#67
And there's one last game in the trilogy. Having to restructure Destiny 1 definitely screwed the whole franchise in my eyes.
By all accounts, having to ship (and thus restructure Destiny 1) is the only reason we got a Destiny at all. Yeah they’re behind and always seem to be playing catch up, but the alternative is development hell and political infighting while they chase creating the perfect game.

Comparing it to a hypothetical unreleased game is pointless, imo.

End game...

Destiny 2 end game is basically The Division bad.

Destiny vanilla end of game was great.
What revisionist history is this? Vanilla had Vault of Glass and chasing a couple random drops. Thats it. How is that “great”?
 
#68
Their core gameplay model is deeply flawed, which we can easily see from the progress made in the past decade of loot based ARPG's.

By all accounts, having to ship (and thus restructure Destiny 1) is the only reason we got a Destiny at all. Yeah they're behind and always seem to be playing catch up, but the alternative is development hell and political infighting while they chase creating the perfect game.

Comparing it to a hypothetical unreleased game is pointless, imo.



What revisionist history is this? Vanilla had Vault of Glass and chasing a couple random drops. Thats it. How is that ”great"?
I agree that it wasn't great either, that has to be nostalgia talking. It was fresh at the time, it was their first shot at this kind of game. D2 doesn't get the same pass for me.
 
#69
I don't really see how saying "we're looking at feedback including for the endgame and having internal discussions about it, please keep it coming" is really a response to anything? Like no shit.
 
#70
I barely play and I'm at around 256 light IIRC. I haven't done much but mess around on the map hitting community events.

I stopped playing about two weeks ago because I don't see much point.
The point is to have fun? I've got a 305 Titan and still haven't explored most of the lost sectors or done all the adventure sidequests.
 
#73
By all accounts, having to ship (and thus restructure Destiny 1) is the only reason we got a Destiny at all. Yeah they're behind and always seem to be playing catch up, but the alternative is development hell and political infighting while they chase creating the perfect game.

Comparing it to a hypothetical unreleased game is pointless, imo.
My point is that they'll still be struggling to make Destiny reach its full potential even throughout the development of the last game in the trilogy. Which as far as we know is the final game in their contract.

All of this could have been prevented if they checked Joseph Staten's work on the story more often. Poor management. There was no reason for the entire story to end up being rejected.
 
#74
Oh no! They're fixing an specific annoying QoL aspect that I don't care about! Oh no!

Oh no! I loved Destiny 1's bullshit grind elements like killing Omnigul over and over again and they haven't brought those back yet! Oh no!

Oh no! Bungie is going to have an updated endgame with the expansion and they're going to charge money for it! Oh no!

Oh no! I've played this game for 8 hours a day and the endgame sucks but I'm still playing it! Oh NO!


The game is awesome.

These complaints are mostly from people who play 100s of hours.

I'm happy enough to play a 100 odd hours then maybe casually the odd time til the next dlc drops.
I think the problem is that people are drawn to different things for the endgame. There were people that liked chasing god rolls. That's mostly gone (you can coordinate your armor mods with your loadouts, but that's about as close to optimizing gear as it gets).

You know what's a lot nicer? Collecting sets of gear. Maxing collections.

If what you like is better, you're happy with the endgame. If what you like is gone, you're not. It's that simple. The conflict lies in that collecting and building a maxed arsenal is so much better precisely because they removed the random rolls. You can eliminate duplicates because you can alter mods on weapons and armor at any time.
 
#78
The point is to have fun? I've got a 305 Titan and still haven't explored most of the lost sectors or done all the adventure sidequests.
Same here! It's why I decided to play a different game instead, a lot of fun. There's absolutely no compelling reason to do sidequests or lost sectors. It's just a cave full of enemies or a modified patrol mission of some kind effectively. It's not even about loot or anything, there's not a compelling story or narrative reason to do it either, they're fetch quests from an MMO essentially.
 
#80
I hope the events for like first week or two won't be in sync. I want a proper launch :(
I feel that PC crowd will be lucky if stuff like raid and its difficulties are staggered even by few weeks, like they are for consoles. I expect to see Trials on PC, on PC release week and so on.

Will Bungie even do proper marketing push for PC version or just slip it out?
 
#83
You could have said the exact same thing after Destiny 1 launched yet here we are 3 years later with slightly different issues with the same result of a sub par endgame.
Honestly, I thought they turned Destiny 1 around great....which is how I'm confused about Destiny 2. I love it still, but I thought Bungie had learned their lesson better after part 1.
 
#84
I feel that PC crowd will be lucky if stuff like raid and its difficulties are staggered even by few weeks, like they are for consoles. I expect to see Trials on PC, on PC release week and so on.

Will Bungie even do proper marketing push for PC version or just slip it out?
There's a huge potential audience on PC. Especially since the game can't be pirated. I'd expect them to go all out with marketing.

Honestly, I thought they turned Destiny 1 around great....which is how I'm confused about Destiny 2. I love it still, but I thought Bungie had learned their lesson better after part 1.
By the time the Taken King came out Destiny 2 was probably too far into development to implement all of the changes they made with the first one. They had like what 1000+ people working on Destiny 2? Pushing those changes would be difficult.
 
#85
I dont really have much complaints with Destiny 2, tbh. Some things can be improved but for the most part I do love how I can log on without feelijg constantly stressed to grind.
A lot of people have been telling me this, they say they played 1000's of hours in D1, and they love that D2 is in a place where they feel they complete their goals every week easily, they have all the gear, so they can just "play". So... the gunplay and the enemy variety, is really enough for so many people to simply repeat the same content over and over without any variation? That's where I'm lost of this equation.

What is Destiny without gear? That's almost the entirety of the game, even the story is basically just a half-assed launching point to the place where you start trying to get the gear. Without builds, without interesting and somewhat intricate variations and options, what do games like these really provide? Like I can't imagine playing Diablo or POE over and over again without difficulty modifiers, without seasons and the more intricate elements of the gear and skill tree frameworks etc.

I honestly want to know, Like do people here also play 100's or even thousands of hours of specific Halo missions over and over again here? Like I understand Halo as a complete piece, a narrative driven game, that was played in co-op often. At least had multiple difficulties etc. But I can't imagine playing like 3-4 missions over and over again and being content with the game.

So that would leave PVP for me? But I really don't care about PVP that much, unless it has interesting party game modes. Wierd, zany and fun MP game modes are my jam. Destiny doesn't have those :(
 
#86
They need to do something. I got two guys to 300 and have no interest to log in and play. I was hoping iron banner would be it but it's just control that drop different tokens.
 
#87
I'm not wearing my best shaders because I don't want to spend them. I'd like to have a full set with Frumious Blue but then I'd run out and if I had to add a new piece to the armour I wouldn't be able to shade it properly. the new shaders are beautiful and the fact that you can shade a single piece of armor is awesome, but I'll never buy a single silver coin to buy a shader (also because it's not like they're all on sale every week) because I've already shelled out a pile of pounds for the game + expansion pass - it should be more than enough.
This is basically why I and many others stopped bothering with customization there's always the good shader you'll come across and go "it looks good, but I don't want to apply it yet because it's limited and my armor pieces or weapon could change, might as well not use it at all"

Rather than encourage you to experiment with different looks or seek out certain shaders, it ends up discouraging you from the whole thing.
 
#89
The echo chamber of negativity regarding D2 on here is nuts. D2 has improved on D1 in every conceivable way but now we have these extremely vocal sperglords and streamers who've burned through the content at an absurd rate complaining about the lack of endgame and asking for the godawful random stats on weapon/armor drops back so they can have some shitty reasons to grind instead just playing the game like a normal person. I don't get it.
Maybe you don't. Doesn't mean nothing is wrong so no need for the name calling and leaps of logic.
 
#91
By the time the Taken King came out Destiny 2 was probably too far into development to implement all of the changes they made with the first one. They had like what 1000+ people working on Destiny 2? Pushing those changes would be difficult.
Yeah...A good point, and you're probably right. I would think that means the bar is really high for them then with the first DLC.
 
#93
"Add a method to mass delete shaders"

Here's an idea, take away the consumable nature of the shaders and just have rare ones in the world. Maybe people will start giving a shit about what they look like in the game this way rather than right now where I see folks either just throwing on random shaders for the heck of it, or not bothering with it at all.

Barely anyone is hunting for specific shaders like you intended them to with this change. And overall, having one more thing to manage has made the game worse rather than better.
Since launch I’ve been concerned about them being limited so i’ve only used like 5 of them. And like you said, I have no intention of hunting down a COLOR item for my gear.
 
#95
By the time the Taken King came out Destiny 2 was probably too far into development to implement all of the changes they made with the first one. They had like what 1000+ people working on Destiny 2? Pushing those changes would be difficult.
This was my assumption, which also means Destiny 3, if already in development, could repeat this issue again.

I've made a thread about and talked about this many times before. But the structure of many AAA titles today seems to be trending towards rough framework games, that are rounded out or completed during additional year/years.

Found it
Aztechnology said:
My assertion is that publishers have become more reactionary over time. To limit risk in terms of development because of increasing cost, and make up for those "losses" They push out framework, or foundational games at a $60 price tag with an additional cost for Season Pass. In the next year they then release DLC to fill out or round out the content, culminating in a Year one or Definitive edition that amounts to a complete title. This allows pubs/devs to adjust their resources and focus as they see fit over the last year of development depending on sales numbers of both the game and season pass. This is both a good and bad thing IMO. It can prompt developers to listen to community suggestions and then change/re-work parts of the game. However it can also be abused by causing publishers to reduce funding and change goals post release depending on how much value they see in it. I believe many AAA publishers think their "full" games should cost significantly more than $60 but simply don't believe people will be willing to pay the cost upfront for a completed title, thus resulting in a work in progress model of games.
Honestly, I was largely in support for going back to square one for Destiny 2, I think it was absolutely necessary to do, but they just went in an entirely unexpected direction for me personally. I also really hadn't factored in the fact that probably some time around Prison of Elders or earlier they had already started development for Destiny 2, off the back/code of D1.
 
#96
But how we can monetize this to generate steady flow of dough?
There are certain shader that changes patterns of the armor which can be further monetized also I am surprised Bungie didnt add up cosmetic armor sets like the one you can get from Ever Vest , we got several cosmetic armor sets from Destiny 1 Year 3, even seasonal cosmetic helmets without counting seasonal shaders.

There is a lot of cosmetic improvement if Bungie (and Activision) in form of Ghosts, Sparrows, Ships, Alt Weapon skins and PVP/PVE auras they could suck on Destiny
 
#97
Most of my issues with the game stem from the god awful token system and the endless amount of repeated gear they give. Iron banner has been a massive disappointment because of it, 15 packages later and only 1 piece of armor for my hunter but damn if they didnt give me the same gun 7 times its honestly what has made me stop playing the game and probably wont go back unless they make some huge changes for the first expansion.
 
There are certain shader that changes patterns of the armor which can be further monetized also I am surprised Bungie didnt add up cosmetic armor sets like the one you can get from Ever Vest , we got several cosmetic armor sets from Destiny 1 Year 3, even seasonal cosmetic helmets without counting seasonal shaders.

There is a lot of cosmetic improvement if Bungie (and Activision) in form of Ghosts, Sparrows, Ships, Alt Weapon skins and PVP/PVE auras they could suck on Destiny
Oh, they're coming. I imagine a lot of stuff will come with a big "Update", so likely another event, and then Eververse update. They probably didn't want to bring too much stuff to Eververse too early to avoid potential blowback.