RichiRamjag
Member
Thought warzone was going to be my go to multiplayer mode. Sadly, I felt the same way as you.
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Bungie vs 343: The War on Halo
- Thread starter FUNKNOWN iXi
- Start date
Thought warzone was going to be my go to multiplayer mode. Sadly, I felt the same way as you.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Thank you for actually being honest here. The Halo titles have always had their critics. No idea why all of a sudden everyone is pretending that the Halo games were these perfect experiences that never got any kind of serious criticism. I personally feel that 343's Halo games are the best the franchise has been. I love their approach to the franchise and everything they bring to the table from a campaign experience perspective.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
So many threads lately on the "Are 343 studios really capable of following the legendary Bungie Saga?"
Bungie said goodbye to this IP, so 343 studios are the only developer out there who keeps Halo alive and we should be happy for that. Off course everyone hopes that they will make a Halo as perfect as Evolved and 3. But if they won't do that, no problem by me.
It's like asking if Ninja Theory can create a Devil May Cry as amazing as 3. They won't but they still did a good effort.
Bungie said goodbye to this IP, so 343 studios are the only developer out there who keeps Halo alive and we should be happy for that. Off course everyone hopes that they will make a Halo as perfect as Evolved and 3. But if they won't do that, no problem by me.
It's like asking if Ninja Theory can create a Devil May Cry as amazing as 3. They won't but they still did a good effort.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I appreciated it for what it was, and would love to see more spin-offs from this franchise. So many great stories to tell, so many game design ideas that could translate well into Halo, I want to see more. That's why I'm so excited for Halo Wars 2, because the first one was a risk that ended up being a gem.
Right? Should be a bannable offense to say there's a better Halo than CE. It's objective fact. ;b
The Halo 5 gameplay is really bad and ironically, alienating when 343 tried to make it easier. It ruins the core of Halo gameplay, which is its floaty easy mechanics. Now it fastens the gameplay with quick sprinty TTK that has left a bad mouth among Halo fans. I had Halo newbs over playing Halo 5, and they really struggled online compared to Halo 3. With all the sprinting, SMGing, etc., they actually found Halo 5 harder to get into. It did not take long for another game to popin. Halo 5 gameplay also ruins another thing that made Halo, which is its great maps. The sprinting and clambering makes Halo maps look undesirable.
After Halo 4, the Halo fanbase ranway from the franchise and stopped participating. People just stopped caring and did not look for Halo 5, at all being disgusted. Then 343 continued to follow Halo 4's footsteps which is LOL after its reaction among the community. They are completely oblivious to what Halo fans like and want to pursue their own agenda (no splitscreen is another example). Halo 5 should have been a true Halo game with no sprint, and a back to Halo 3 form, and could have been advertised in a huge marketing campaign that "We listened. Halo is back".
After Halo 4, the Halo fanbase ranway from the franchise and stopped participating. People just stopped caring and did not look for Halo 5, at all being disgusted. Then 343 continued to follow Halo 4's footsteps which is LOL after its reaction among the community. They are completely oblivious to what Halo fans like and want to pursue their own agenda (no splitscreen is another example). Halo 5 should have been a true Halo game with no sprint, and a back to Halo 3 form, and could have been advertised in a huge marketing campaign that "We listened. Halo is back".
God no. And the rest is lol worthy. You speak for yourself not Halo fans.
Halo has been in decline since 3, CoD blew up and took over. Fine you don't like it, but I can imagine the fallout if they had gone down this route, would have been a disaster. It hard to play MCC Halo multi, it feels constrained.
The only area the new games lack is in the enemy a.i and single player, its not as good as Bungies games.
thetwinsattack
Neo Member
Halo 5 has had the most 'Xbox record that' moments of anything I've played since Day 1 2013.
I said it three times in the last game I played and not because I racked up some killing sprew but that each time the way a battle or dual unfolded was unexpected and genuinely exciting.
These 5-10 second battles are what makes the game for me and nothing else has come close.
I love it!
I said it three times in the last game I played and not because I racked up some killing sprew but that each time the way a battle or dual unfolded was unexpected and genuinely exciting.
These 5-10 second battles are what makes the game for me and nothing else has come close.
I love it!
I totally agree they could have illustrated it better.
If you mean success of upholding The Mantle at any cost when you say "screw organics" then you're right. If you mean her endgame is to destroy organic life then you're wrong.
I just rewatched some of the Halo 5 cut scenes and it occurred to me that Halsey is shown with Cortana, or perhaps a copy of her, in the beginning. It's back when she had both arms, maybe the same fragment passed to Noble Team 6 long ago, or maybe another copy? We also know she split up Cortana to research a Forerunner complex, with one copy assigned to work on decrypting the Forerunner data and the other assigned to work with Spartan Ops.
Maybe...
Pay close to attention to the tune of the background music. It's the same exact tune Cortana is humming when she activates a Halo in Legendary post-credits H5 ending. What if it's all Halsey, or maybe a corrupt Cortana copy? And from H4 we know she met the Librarian, got the Janus Key, and knew where the Absolute Record was located, which has record of all Forerunner technology in the entire galaxy.
Maybe Halsey accessed The Domain and uploaded another Cortana, or this other Cortana copy with Halsey's ideals of anything for the greater good took advantage of access to Forerunner technology? That opens up other questions then, too, but Chief did remark that Cortana was different when he saw her.
It's hard to ignore Halsey's past actions and events, her opening scene in H5, and that Legendary ending.
I just rewatched some of the Halo 5 cut scenes and it occurred to me that Halsey is shown with Cortana, or perhaps a copy of her, in the beginning. It's back when she had both arms, maybe the same fragment passed to Noble Team 6 long ago, or maybe another copy? We also know she split up Cortana to research a Forerunner complex, with one copy assigned to work on decrypting the Forerunner data and the other assigned to work with Spartan Ops.
Maybe...
Pay close to attention to the tune of the background music. It's the same exact tune Cortana is humming when she activates a Halo in Legendary post-credits H5 ending. What if it's all Halsey, or maybe a corrupt Cortana copy? And from H4 we know she met the Librarian, got the Janus Key, and knew where the Absolute Record was located, which has record of all Forerunner technology in the entire galaxy.
Maybe Halsey accessed The Domain and uploaded another Cortana, or this other Cortana copy with Halsey's ideals of anything for the greater good took advantage of access to Forerunner technology? That opens up other questions then, too, but Chief did remark that Cortana was different when he saw her.
It's hard to ignore Halsey's past actions and events, her opening scene in H5, and that Legendary ending.
I don't recall anything about the Warden being sent to Sanghelios for Halsey, but I need to rewatch all the cut scenes to refresh my memory.
If it is another Cortana, recall that Halsey doesn't like the UNSC. Hmmm...
I hope H6 ties up all the loose ends effectively.
If it is another Cortana, recall that Halsey doesn't like the UNSC. Hmmm...
I hope H6 ties up all the loose ends effectively.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
No one should be surprised a lot of Halo fans don't like 4 and 5.
Bungie was a team with passion and experience together.
343 is like throwing a college all star team together to play a top NBA team
You don't know what you'll get out of 343 with people not use to actually building physics and designs that were part of Halo.
Sure you have a few bungie people but that doesn't change it.
I have accepted halo will never play as well as the past titles and it's time to move on. Almost brings a tear to my eye. I won't blame 343, but I do blame ms for not working out a deal with bungie. Letting them create a new i, giving more freedom and letting them work in another halo later. You should really work with a team that saved your first box, not try to control it. I see nothing gained from Ms owning halo. Bungie was and is more important than halo itself.
I'm sure after tasting a different game bungie might actually want to work on halo again.
I'm sure Microsoft regrets it but I'm not sure if the Microsoft Office today would be any different.
Rip halo, it was a good run and thanks for the amazing games bungie. Your feeling for gameplay is incredible.
Bungie was a team with passion and experience together.
343 is like throwing a college all star team together to play a top NBA team
You don't know what you'll get out of 343 with people not use to actually building physics and designs that were part of Halo.
Sure you have a few bungie people but that doesn't change it.
I have accepted halo will never play as well as the past titles and it's time to move on. Almost brings a tear to my eye. I won't blame 343, but I do blame ms for not working out a deal with bungie. Letting them create a new i, giving more freedom and letting them work in another halo later. You should really work with a team that saved your first box, not try to control it. I see nothing gained from Ms owning halo. Bungie was and is more important than halo itself.
I'm sure after tasting a different game bungie might actually want to work on halo again.
I'm sure Microsoft regrets it but I'm not sure if the Microsoft Office today would be any different.
Rip halo, it was a good run and thanks for the amazing games bungie. Your feeling for gameplay is incredible.
Funny that Halo 5's gameplay feel is up there as some of the best in the series.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I wish.
Go drive a warthog more.
When you side stepping feel how unresponsive it feels.
When you nades miss, actually consider why you can't hit.
When a guy runs past you consider why it's hard to turn and track him.
When your going groundout eh, speaks for itself how ridiculous it is. In destiny too.
When you just want to jump backwards and jump on a platform and stay focused on the enemy and to shoot him, consider you can't, cause you need to turn around and look just to clamber. Meh. Rainbow six, uncharted and just maybe destiny, here I come.
About forge maps, Reach was the only game where they didn't look like shit.
The one thing I hate the most in Halo 5 are grenades, there's too many spares lying around for such a powerful equipment. That and the fact that a lot of jumps require clamber, clamber should have been for times when you just miss a jump by a feet or two and use clamber to get up aka a completely side ability. Instead we have tons of places in the game where you simply cannot get up without clamber.
The one thing I hate the most in Halo 5 are grenades, there's too many spares lying around for such a powerful equipment. That and the fact that a lot of jumps require clamber, clamber should have been for times when you just miss a jump by a feet or two and use clamber to get up aka a completely side ability. Instead we have tons of places in the game where you simply cannot get up without clamber.
Am I the only one that really misses assist points? There's nothing worse than dumping a bunch of bullets into an enemy and having one of your team mates deliver the final shot - and get all the credit for it. It's bad enough in arena mode, but even more annoying in WarZone where the enemies take minutes to defeat.
I can't replying to the same argument with you, Go play Halo 3 in MCC The series will never play like halo 3 again and it's better for it.
Goodbye jack you won't be missed
Warthog feels great, it's slippery and bouncy and just generally quite fun to drive and try to keep under control.
Well considering the strafe acceleration is excellent I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. It's far more responsive than H3 for example.
Bad throw maybe? I dunno, the grenade throw in H5 is straight up the best feeling throw in any game I have ever played. I feel like they go literally exactly where I want them to every time.
Here's a couple of clips I took on my last legendary run:
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Il MeanBean lI/video/13025882
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Il MeanBean lI/video/13025909
This second clip I'd already been killed by that guy once so I knew where he was. Wasn't just blind luck.
I don't have that problem.
Groundpound is just awesome.
Try crouch jumping maybe?
UltimaPooh
Member
Halo Reach was the pinnacle. Halo 4 was the downfall.
Monocle
Member
With bloom, the nerfed jump, loadouts, and those imbalanced armor abilities? Nah.
UltimaPooh
Member
All of those wonderful things.
I get the love of Halo CE thru 3... It's fun to point and click and out strafe, and spam gernades...
But Reach just felt right. Armor abilities could be infuriating but hey... Sorry I ruined your strafe game bro.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
It's like Hubble and Jack the Nipper are both possessed by the evil spirit that drove FoolishFellow. Constant echo chamber between them.
Rah rah, take out sprint. Rah rah, true Halo. Rah rah, NOTICE OUR OPINIONS EVEN THOUGH WE CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT HOW DONE WE ARE WITH THE SERIES.
Ya'll are the kind of consumers who want the same thing repackaged over and over and over again.
Rah rah, take out sprint. Rah rah, true Halo. Rah rah, NOTICE OUR OPINIONS EVEN THOUGH WE CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT HOW DONE WE ARE WITH THE SERIES.
Ya'll are the kind of consumers who want the same thing repackaged over and over and over again.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
Campaign in 4 was excellent if you had a bunch of external knowledge from the books, otherwise it was an absolute mess.
Campaign in 5 was the worst in the series.
Multiplayer in 3 was the absolute best for deathmatch.
Multiplayer in 5 has refined the wheel and is a blast, but doesn't feel much like older Halo.
Multiplayer in 4 was the worst in the series, but that's not saying a ton. Every Halo game's multiplayer has been worth playing.
Campaign in 5 was the worst in the series.
Multiplayer in 3 was the absolute best for deathmatch.
Multiplayer in 5 has refined the wheel and is a blast, but doesn't feel much like older Halo.
Multiplayer in 4 was the worst in the series, but that's not saying a ton. Every Halo game's multiplayer has been worth playing.
Monocle
Member
In my experience, all of those things made the game feel so so wrong. The floaty responsiveness of previous games was gone. I felt weighed down by the modified physics and constantly handicapped by the bloom.
Warm Machine
Member
I loved the Halo 4 campaign. I don't get where the complaints come from. I also really liked the multiplayer which took CoD elements but with a weightier feel. I'm pretty Halo casual though so I found the changes intriguing as opposed to shocking.
So far I've played 35 hours of Halo 5 MP and have loved every minute of it. Always roll out solo and still have a 1.2 KD.
Between Bungie and 343 it is a complete wash. Vanilla Destiny was the epitome of 6/10 but most of their Halo games were really well made and essentially cutting edge for the time.
343 has picked up the series and have made it a labour of love with a spare nor expense money hose attached. I don't envy their position as they have to tie a scitzophrenic fanbase.
Jack here is 180 degrees from my position as are many other people who complain about the gameplay while simultaneously complaining about how the game is so "pro" centric when I'd argue they balanced back between the comfortable casual Halo 4 and the stupid meticulous unforgiving Halo 2.
So far I've played 35 hours of Halo 5 MP and have loved every minute of it. Always roll out solo and still have a 1.2 KD.
Between Bungie and 343 it is a complete wash. Vanilla Destiny was the epitome of 6/10 but most of their Halo games were really well made and essentially cutting edge for the time.
343 has picked up the series and have made it a labour of love with a spare nor expense money hose attached. I don't envy their position as they have to tie a scitzophrenic fanbase.
Jack here is 180 degrees from my position as are many other people who complain about the gameplay while simultaneously complaining about how the game is so "pro" centric when I'd argue they balanced back between the comfortable casual Halo 4 and the stupid meticulous unforgiving Halo 2.
H5 had the best campaign gameplay in the series by far.
Story is debatable though.
UltimaPooh
Member
I felt it was still pretty floaty with some additions.
It certainly wasn't the mess that Halo 4 became. Tho you could balem Reach for the evolution that was Halo 4.
The Sum of Zero
Member
Calling it an evil spirit is putting it in nicer terms than I would use.
May FF forever rest in his shallow ban-grave
Right!!!! lol
I don't know, I mean the old Halo games existed in the time. Even playing CE now isn't as fun as playing CE then. Neither is Halo 2, Halo 3 (which I do agree you move slow as molasses, I just never noticed).
Halo 5 is fun to play. Don't conflate the fact it's down with its quality. It's extremely tough to get into for the casual crowd used to no ranks, quitting and generally being idiots when they play. So they go and play the games that reward mediocrity and give participation medals for being bad, think about it the next time you get a death streak in CoD etc. This same issue is also affecting Gears of War, which is just far too skilled and tough for these players to get into.
If 343 tries to chase this audience with Halo 4, they alienate long time fans who don't like things like loadouts, join in progress, instant respawn, call down infinity power weapons whenever you like etc.
So with Halo 5 they tried something different, which is hiring a pro team and developing Arena with them, and developing Warzone which was supposed to cater to the CoD/Destiny crowd that likes perks and RNG and whatnot. Does it work? It's only been a month. Need more time to see what Halo 5 ultimately evolves into. I agree that a lot of people have rose tinted glasses with Halo. Even CE isn't as perfect as people think. The campaign has a lot of areas where you definitely don't feel like slogging through.
I don't know, I think a lot of it is just that Halo is an exclusive on the worse of the two consoles, and so gets unnecessary hate, and has to go up against multiplatforms which have exclusivity deals with the more popular of the consoles.
Halo 5 is fun to play. Don't conflate the fact it's down with its quality. It's extremely tough to get into for the casual crowd used to no ranks, quitting and generally being idiots when they play. So they go and play the games that reward mediocrity and give participation medals for being bad, think about it the next time you get a death streak in CoD etc. This same issue is also affecting Gears of War, which is just far too skilled and tough for these players to get into.
If 343 tries to chase this audience with Halo 4, they alienate long time fans who don't like things like loadouts, join in progress, instant respawn, call down infinity power weapons whenever you like etc.
So with Halo 5 they tried something different, which is hiring a pro team and developing Arena with them, and developing Warzone which was supposed to cater to the CoD/Destiny crowd that likes perks and RNG and whatnot. Does it work? It's only been a month. Need more time to see what Halo 5 ultimately evolves into. I agree that a lot of people have rose tinted glasses with Halo. Even CE isn't as perfect as people think. The campaign has a lot of areas where you definitely don't feel like slogging through.
I don't know, I think a lot of it is just that Halo is an exclusive on the worse of the two consoles, and so gets unnecessary hate, and has to go up against multiplatforms which have exclusivity deals with the more popular of the consoles.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Agreed, Halo 5 is probably one of my favorites, if not my favorite console fps, and obviously, one of my favorite Halo's.
I also recognize the fact that Halo's the least popular as it's ever been. Do I think this is the result of missteps by 343? Maybe partially, with players giving 4 and MCC a bad rap, probably more would've skipped out this time. Halo has everything going against it this time, being on the losing side of the console war, 3 other hugely anticipated shooters have came out within mere weeks of each other, as well as the bad PR generated by MCC especially, it's no wonder that Halo is no top dog right now.
However, I think that positive word of mouth and the free updates will entice people to pick up the game. Not to mention the $1.7 Million tournament coming surely will generate a good amount of buzz.
I'm of the opinion that Halo needs to stick to its guns over the next few years, and it'll start showing a turn around in its popularity. Hopefully Microsoft still deems it a worthy investment to sink shit tons of money into, rather than getting scared and slashing the budget for future Halo projects.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Well numbers speak for themselves. You guys that enjoy the game is fine but it's purely and technically worse.
Vehicles are just bad. They actually look like they aren't even on the ground especially hako 4.
You are right they are slippery. It's like every map is Disney on ice or something.
Even serious Sam has tighter strafing and tighter controls than halo 4.
The art style, light blooms are just amateur hour honestly.
If Microsoft announced today there were big big changes of staff and that 343 employees were moving out wrong to another game you bet your ass there would atleast be some reason for hope. As it stands now. Expect a 10 percent halo 3 player count by summer. I'm not missing anything in halo 5. I'll still play it here and there and what not just to play something different every now and then.
But numbers show halo fans don't like it.
I'm definitely not saying it's a bad game but it's not a top end game for sure.
I understand it will be some of yours favorite game and that is completely fine. I like games that people don't like too, I get it.
But there is obviously a problem with halo and 343.
And no, no way I want anyone to lose their job. This is just a game and a value people more than I do any game. I don't want to be bad to people in general.
So, I hope I can be a bit honest and not offend anyone.
Vehicles are just bad. They actually look like they aren't even on the ground especially hako 4.
You are right they are slippery. It's like every map is Disney on ice or something.
Even serious Sam has tighter strafing and tighter controls than halo 4.
The art style, light blooms are just amateur hour honestly.
If Microsoft announced today there were big big changes of staff and that 343 employees were moving out wrong to another game you bet your ass there would atleast be some reason for hope. As it stands now. Expect a 10 percent halo 3 player count by summer. I'm not missing anything in halo 5. I'll still play it here and there and what not just to play something different every now and then.
But numbers show halo fans don't like it.
I'm definitely not saying it's a bad game but it's not a top end game for sure.
I understand it will be some of yours favorite game and that is completely fine. I like games that people don't like too, I get it.
But there is obviously a problem with halo and 343.
And no, no way I want anyone to lose their job. This is just a game and a value people more than I do any game. I don't want to be bad to people in general.
So, I hope I can be a bit honest and not offend anyone.
I hear a lot of praise for Bungie's Halo since 343i took over, but I'm pretty sure the concensus amongst the gaming community was that Bungie's Halo was shit before 343i came along. I dunno...it just feels like a lot of people use "Halo used to be good" as a way of making their current hateful opinions seem more valid.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Complaints but they actually liked enough to play it. Reach has the most complaints and most drops. 4 had even more dislikes and drops. 5 is getting closer to 4.
spootime
Member
You're crazy. Halo 5 campaign isnt offensively terrible like halo 4 but it doesnt even come close to the highs of halo 1-3.
Going to have to disagree. It has some of the largest playable spaces since arguably Halo 1.
Monocle
Member
Halo 5 can definitely compete with Halo 2 and 3. Just not quite Halo CE's highest highs, namely Halo (Mission 2), The Silent Cartographer, and Assault on the Control Room/Two Betrayals. (Maybe also Truth and Reconciliation.)
Same. I mean we've had like 5 years of vastly different games. Reach to 4 to 5, now is the time to stick to their guns, Halo 6 should just be whatever the base game play of Halo 5 is.
I also think December will be a turning point if they can get some more Christmas sales, Forge should be good to go by then, maybe some more maps and gametypes, the world championships and tournaments should also start soon, bringing pros back, daily scrims.
Well it's foolhardy to expect it would. No story will ever match the original, because the original ended with Halo 3. I guarantee you Gears 4 will suffer the same issues, because we just won't care about the new characters or story like we did about Delta Squad and Marcus and Dom and Cole and Baird and Anya etc.
Also, it may not match the highs of those games, but it also doesn't come to the lows of those games either. I would rather play Halo 5 again start to finish than have to play levels like Cortana etc. Story is an issue, and will be going forward, but Halo 5 campaign design worked, and I think Halo 6 will be even better in this regard, especially learning from what worked and didn't work. Now is not the time to panic and reverse course.
...Scatter...
Banned
Sprint, clamber, ground pound were GREAT additions. I couldn't ever imagine going back. They add variety to CQC, added to strategy and make it more of a thinking man's game. You have to get good at Halo. That's what sets it apart.
Should they add more PVE content? Sure. Absolutely. But let's not let that take away from the best PVP we've gotten in quite some time. IMO - Halo 5's gameplay is super tight and fair. You just have to get good.
Fata1moose
Banned
I'd agree it doesn't reach the same heights, the Kraken pales in comparison to Scarab fights as an example. But the moment to moment gameplay and level design in Halo 5 are superior. The multiple routes and verticallity make for better level design. Gunplay is refined and the spartan abilities make for a fun string of combo kills. It's lacking in difficulty and the large scale environments, but there's no shitshow levels like Cortana in Halo 3. Prometheans in Halo 5 are actually fun to fight as well, and I disliked them in 4. Their combat puzzle is a fun contrast to the Covenant, shooting a Knight in its weak spots and then nailing the headshot before its armor closes is satisfying. This is purely from a gameplay perspective, I'm not a fan of the story telling in 343 campaigns as of yet, though 5 was an improvement on 4.
As for MP 5 beats out Halo 3 and Reach with no contest. The weapon sandbox is very well balanced, there needs to be some tweaks, but its not as egregious as past Halo launches. Map design is very good as well, although the rotation sucks and they need more of them.
Edit: Beaten by Madness and his ugly avatar.
Fuck Spartan charge though, rewarding players when they should be punished for sprinting into a combat encounter. It's the new double melee.
Monocle
Member
Yeah, the Spartan abilities perfectly gel with Halo's classic movement and controls. They're incredibly well balanced too, with the possible exception of the charge. It would be madness to reduce Spartans' maneuverability in the next game.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
Wow op! Incredible post/thread. I whole heartily agree. Spoken like a true halo fan. I love halo 5 and proud to say it. It's great! Warts and all its an amazing franchise.
Bungie
Member
Terms of who is the better studio at making a complete game, I have to go with Bungie. Halo 3 & 2 has features within the UI etc that games today still don't. I hate having to wait on things that should be shipped with the game, hurts the community more than helps. It's great that 343i is working to add these things none the less.
When I compare the two studios, Bungie by far had more attention to detail & that really matters to me. When it comes to gameplay, I have loved all the Halo games in their time.
I could go on about what I love & hate with these studios but it's because I deeply care about both is why I notice these things.
<3
When I compare the two studios, Bungie by far had more attention to detail & that really matters to me. When it comes to gameplay, I have loved all the Halo games in their time.
I could go on about what I love & hate with these studios but it's because I deeply care about both is why I notice these things.
<3
Silphonica
Banned
You are close but not quite there.
I've written this many a time and it gets ignored just as often so im not going to write the same WOT i've been used to writing so many times.
Halo 1 and halo 2 are not as vastly different as you think, the same formula is there, as with Halo 3. Halo 3 being the worst out of the bunch. Halo 3 was successful riding on the back of the popularity of halo 2. Halo 3 caused the biggest divide in the competitive scene. Although there was an initial drop off from halo1 to halo 2.
Halo reach was a change in formula. The added movement mechanics from aa basically changed the flow of gameplay, things like map spacing now had to be taken into account. The problem is, after 3, each iteration has been so further apart that community is now spread so thin. It's beyond repair. Halo 5 might not be a bad game, but it's bad for a Halo game, for me. And many others. It's not Halo.
The problem is, in the name of "progression" the developers saw these changes as necessary. Moving further and further away from the original formula lest they be left behind. However, I personally believe sticking to the same formula would have been the best decision that was ever made. They created their identity they stand by it. Counterstrike is a fantastic example of this.
MLG was built on the back of Halo and bungie and microsoft didn't give two shits about competitive Halo, it's only now since esports has exploded MS realised they fucked up. Too little too late.
Personally I'm done with the series. 10 years of Halo and i'm disappointed at what it has become. Some of my most beloved series have also stuck to the same formula for the same amount of time and i'll continue to have fun with them because at least they are true to who they are.
I've written this many a time and it gets ignored just as often so im not going to write the same WOT i've been used to writing so many times.
Halo 1 and halo 2 are not as vastly different as you think, the same formula is there, as with Halo 3. Halo 3 being the worst out of the bunch. Halo 3 was successful riding on the back of the popularity of halo 2. Halo 3 caused the biggest divide in the competitive scene. Although there was an initial drop off from halo1 to halo 2.
Halo reach was a change in formula. The added movement mechanics from aa basically changed the flow of gameplay, things like map spacing now had to be taken into account. The problem is, after 3, each iteration has been so further apart that community is now spread so thin. It's beyond repair. Halo 5 might not be a bad game, but it's bad for a Halo game, for me. And many others. It's not Halo.
The problem is, in the name of "progression" the developers saw these changes as necessary. Moving further and further away from the original formula lest they be left behind. However, I personally believe sticking to the same formula would have been the best decision that was ever made. They created their identity they stand by it. Counterstrike is a fantastic example of this.
MLG was built on the back of Halo and bungie and microsoft didn't give two shits about competitive Halo, it's only now since esports has exploded MS realised they fucked up. Too little too late.
Personally I'm done with the series. 10 years of Halo and i'm disappointed at what it has become. Some of my most beloved series have also stuck to the same formula for the same amount of time and i'll continue to have fun with them because at least they are true to who they are.
Bungie
Member
...Scatter...
Banned
Ok - but then what FPS are you playing competitively instead? What's better out there besides *maybe counterstrike?
Megatron
Member
Not necessarily true. To play halo 5 you have to have an xb1, and obviously sales of that console are much lower than 360 sales back when 4 came out. Also negative impressions of 4 and the MCC have hurt it.
I think 5 is glorious. I agree with the OP. Best Halo has been since CE.
Silphonica
Banned
Well counterstrike is better competitively there is no maybe about it.
Anyway I dont play competitive fps anymore. Theres nothing worthy of playing on consoles and i've traveled around the country enough playing in tournaments that the sheer disappointment of Halo has left a bitter taste in my mouth.
My beloved series doesnt have to be tournament fps
just casual games. But regardless the point still stands, sticking to a formula isn't what kills a series.hooijdonk17
Member
Halo 3's gameplay is not slow. At all. It's the best of the original trilogy by a huge mile.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Yes and the flow and change of gameplay is w hk at has hurt the most.
I dont agree with everything you said. There are obvious improvements in halo 3 with character size to map spacing. physics for bases, jumps and body movement.
But as far as spacing and play.. Yes. It has gotten worse and further away from what made the game what it is. Agree with you so much
People always say it needs to adapt, man... No. It just needs a few fresh ideas but not the things that break base gameplay. Sprint, clamber a game isn't better cause it adds these just like a game isn't necessarily worse with them.
What people always forget is, people do like what Halo is. Just like we like sim in gt, or combos and 2d in our street fighter. No reason to make street fighter like tekken. If that happened we would have expected the same situation as Halo.
People would like a deep 3d street fighter ,people would say it needs to adapt and be up to today's standards blah blah. And then we would have drops in sales and player bases etc.
There is no difference. I don't get why some shooters have to try and copy one another one most genres stick to what works for the franchise. It's just silly that 343 and Microsoft also doesn't get it.
Street Fighter V plays very differently to Street Fighter II though. If they didn't have these changes to gameplay, Halo 5 would have been as irrelevant to the market as H2A.
You have to ask yourself what makes Halo, Halo. And while yes, I'd have liked older aiming, and no sprint, it's not realistic anymore to ignore it. So, much like Street Fighter, they kept the on map weapons, no load outs, equals starts, map control, power weapon control, respawn times and even after death cam on body. But they switched up movement options. Hell they even have a medal in H5 for grenading the power weapon to you, called Combat Evolved.
I mean again, the drops and decline of Halo 5 have less to do with the changes to gameplay itself as opposed to things like no Firefight, Spartan Ops, more maps and gametypes. I feel Warzone should have had one more mode in addition to normal and Assault as well as maybe 5-6 maps at launch. Arena definitely needs more maps, needs classic gametypes. Right now, for me, it's like okay 2 matches of warzone, that's it, a match of breakout, maybe SWAT, some BTB. I don't like doing team arena or slayer without someone else to play or coordinate with do to quitters and no mics so I've been avoiding that. If there was Firefight, something else, challenges that give a lot of points or more REQ packs, I'd have greater reason to play. Infinite Ammo and Grenade skull would've definitely made me play more Campaign missions again and again especially legendary etc.
You have to ask yourself what makes Halo, Halo. And while yes, I'd have liked older aiming, and no sprint, it's not realistic anymore to ignore it. So, much like Street Fighter, they kept the on map weapons, no load outs, equals starts, map control, power weapon control, respawn times and even after death cam on body. But they switched up movement options. Hell they even have a medal in H5 for grenading the power weapon to you, called Combat Evolved.
I mean again, the drops and decline of Halo 5 have less to do with the changes to gameplay itself as opposed to things like no Firefight, Spartan Ops, more maps and gametypes. I feel Warzone should have had one more mode in addition to normal and Assault as well as maybe 5-6 maps at launch. Arena definitely needs more maps, needs classic gametypes. Right now, for me, it's like okay 2 matches of warzone, that's it, a match of breakout, maybe SWAT, some BTB. I don't like doing team arena or slayer without someone else to play or coordinate with do to quitters and no mics so I've been avoiding that. If there was Firefight, something else, challenges that give a lot of points or more REQ packs, I'd have greater reason to play. Infinite Ammo and Grenade skull would've definitely made me play more Campaign missions again and again especially legendary etc.
I would argue that MLG/pro-gamers had very little to do with Halo's success's or failures. Pro-gamers are a huge minority of almost all game franchises. Halo will never find the success it had before catering to just one gaming demographic be it casual or pro-gamers.
The lasting appeal of the original trilogies multiplayer as ultimately because they were fun and balanced (for the most part) with out having to dumb it down. It also helped that with Halo 2 and especially Halo 3 the variety of custom game options increased and that is ultimately where Halo 5 is lacking right now. Halo 4's problems were obvious from the get go and 343i were too slow to react.
The forge update should hopefully solve the lack of variety though if mainstay gametypes are patched in with it.
The lasting appeal of the original trilogies multiplayer as ultimately because they were fun and balanced (for the most part) with out having to dumb it down. It also helped that with Halo 2 and especially Halo 3 the variety of custom game options increased and that is ultimately where Halo 5 is lacking right now. Halo 4's problems were obvious from the get go and 343i were too slow to react.
The forge update should hopefully solve the lack of variety though if mainstay gametypes are patched in with it.
Debatable, while there were improvements over Halo 2, the switch to projectile hit detection with some weapons instead of regular hitscan made the multiplayer mode random and inconsistent at times. The BR and Sniper Rifle suffered the most from those flawed game design choices. I was not a fan of some of the multiplayer maps either.
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