I bought the 40" Samsung KU6290 Best Buy had the other day for $280 (This is a weird best buy specific model of the KU6300 with a crappier remote).
I've been using it for gaming on my PC and consoles and it seems awesome and has lower input lag than my old 1080 TV did..
Here is the input lag via rtngs:
1080p @ 60Hz : 19.8 ms
1080p With Interpolation : 109.9 ms
1080p @ 60Hz Outside Game Mode : 122.4 ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 : 36.7 ms
4k @ 60Hz : 20.4 ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 : 36.7 ms
4k @ 60Hz + HDR : 20.4 ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 + HDR : 36.7 ms
It is honestly better than I was expecting and works pretty well as a PC monitor / gaming TV. So my 4K TV black friday purchase was pretty nice.
I think I'll wait an extra year before switching to 4K, I wanted to do it for this year's Black Friday, but the 4K market seems so fucking unstable with what it have to offer.
''This one has HDR but 8-bits, supports 10-bits but doesn't show it.''
''This one support full-HDR, but is only a 60hz panel.''
''This one has everything right, but the black levels and input lag are bad.''
There's ALWAYS something, unless you want to spend 5K$+ on the fucking thing. It's been two days I'm intensively looking at the best bang-for-your-buck 4K TV and there's always a sacrifice that pisses me off.
I think I'll wait an extra year before switching to 4K, I wanted to do it for this year's Black Friday, but the 4K market seems so fucking unstable with what it have to offer.
''This one has HDR but 8-bits, supports 10-bits but doesn't show it.''
''This one support full-HDR, but is only a 60hz panel.''
''This one has everything right, but the black levels and input lag are bad.''
There's ALWAYS something, unless you want to spend 5K$+ on the fucking thing.
No. Most people don't know enough to attribute what they are feeling to the input lag of their display.
Input lag will not, in most cases, make a game unplayable. It will make your character feel weightier, and your controls looser and less precise. It will make a game more difficult and timing less forgiving. And because the same amount of input lag is being added to every game you play, you have no point of comparison.
If you were to set up two TV's side by side—one with 50ms lag, the other only 10ms—running the same fast-paced game, and let the user switch between them, I am sure that almost everyone would notice a difference.
And even if this wasn't true, let's not forget that approxamately 5/10 American voters chose Donald Trump to be our next president, so "most people" are stupid anyway.
Listed in OP doesn't make the title accurate though.
Edit: at any rate, I would hope anyone making a purchase like this would do some research. There are sites that record the lag and people should check before making a decision regardless of brand as the models can vary wildly.
No. Most people don't know enough to attribute what they are feeling to the input lag of their display.
Input lag will not, in most cases, make a game unplayable. They will make your character feel weightier, and your controls looser and less precise. They will make a game more difficult and timing less forgiving. And because the same amount of input lag is being added to every game you play, which means you have no point of comparison.
If you were to set up two TV's side by side—one with 50ms lag, the other only 10ms—running the same fast-paced game, and let the user switch between them, I am sure that almost everyone would notice a difference.
Yeah, it's heavily game dependent too. I have a Steam Link, and for the most part it works great and makes my games playable in my living room.
With that said, the first time I booted up Dirt Rally (a huge obsession of mine), I was putting up shitty times. I hadn't played for awhile, but this seemed ridiculously bad for me. I went to my desk and played on my 144hz Gsync monitor and immediately nailed it. It wasn't at all apparent that anything was wrong on the TV, but holy shit when you need the precision and small inputs matter, it's huge.
Edit: Admittedly the Steam Link will introduce more input lag then these monitors, but my point is, that changes in input lag usually aren't immediately noticeable, but can be significant in gameplay.
No. Most people don't know enough to attribute what they are feeling to the input lag of their display.
Input lag will not, in most cases, make a game unplayable. They will make your character feel weightier, and your controls looser and less precise. They will make a game more difficult and timing less forgiving. And because the same amount of input lag is being added to every game you play, which means you have no point of comparison.
If you were to set up two TV's side by sideone with 50ms lag, the other only 10msrunning the same fast-paced game, and let the user switch between them, I am sure that almost everyone would notice a difference.
No. Most people don't know enough to attribute what they are feeling to the input lag of their display.
Input lag will not, in most cases, make a game unplayable. It will make your character feel weightier, and your controls looser and less precise. It will make a game more difficult and timing less forgiving. And because the same amount of input lag is being added to every game you play, you have no point of comparison.
If you were to set up two TV's side by sideone with 50ms lag, the other only 10msrunning the same fast-paced game, and let the user switch between them, I am sure that almost everyone would notice a difference.
And even if this wasn't true, let's not forget that approxamately 5/10 American voters chose Donald Trump to be our next president, so "most people" are stupid anyway.
If you were to set up two TV's side by sideone with 50ms lag, the other only 10msrunning the same fast-paced game, and let the user switch between them, I am sure that almost everyone would notice a difference.
There's a strange dissonance when it comes to this topic. The majority of GAF says they'll take 60fps over increased resolution anyday, and then state that the majority of people can't feel input lag--something that's just as factual and tangible in regards to your experience as frame rate.
Reaction time ≠ feeling an additional added delay to your own actions. And I'm not saying people would notice the delay—most wouldn't—but if you asked which one had tighter controls, yes I think people would pick the one with less latency.
There is a reason developers spend so much time, money, and energy optimizing their game engines, animations, and everything else to respond as quickly as possible. And in game design, one of the major ways to make one character feel weightier than another is to increase his or her response time ever so slightly—usually just by a frame or two.
There's a strange dissonance when it comes to this topic. The majority of GAF says they'll take 60fps over increased resolution anyday, and then state that the majority of people can't feel input lag--something that's just as factual and tangible in regards to your experience as frame rate.
You can get used to a surprising amount. Especially if you're not aware of it.
What increased MS really amounts to while you're playing is "Hm. This feels off" You're not seeing huge delay from your inputs. It's just enough offset that it feels strange.
OTOH, there's a guy I've played with offline who spazzes out if he's not on a CRT. Evo monitor's introduce too much lag for him and he just shuts down. That extra 9 ms is somehow crippling to him.
It's why all of us older gamers who grew up with CRT goodness are now severely crippled. /s
Gitaroo @ Sonyboards said:
Also funny to see someone posted this on gaf. I wouldn't even bother because neogaf has too much defence force of each faction (ms, nintendo and sony). Just a few week ago I didn't even mention in full detail and some dimwit try to argue with me and I just watch him crawl back to his shell like a moron.
Really mature way of discourse you have. At least you are not vitriolic just for the sake of it, since you actually own an 850D. Did you notice any improvements after the latest FW update?
Absolutely. Your brain is hardwired to expect instant visual feedback from action you initiate. Input lag is easily perceived. People just become accustomed to it, over time. I am highly sensitive to it and can easily see the difference between 10 and 50ms. Visuals seem to run together because of the amount visual data our brain has to process at once. Try listening to duplicate audio that is 40ms apart. Easily noticed. And yes, that is a valid analogy. Don't take your eyes for granted and see the entire picture.
I have a 2014 X850B, kind of bummed since this model didn't get HDR patched in through firmware unlike the 2015 "C" range.
Still playing PS4 games at 4K and I haven't perceived any real lag issues. Skyrim so far being the only major offendor that feels a -bit- more sluggish both in framerate and control at 4K. (And directly comparing to my old PS4 @1080, it looks absolutely identical outside of a excessively minor fuzziness in extreme distances...never noticeable during actual play).
That said, I was thinking of upgrading to a 930D set this holiday, but may rethink if other models are more recommended.
This info is old. Sony released a firmware update late last month to reduce input lag. They also release instructions on how to further reduce it as well.
With some types of games, sure. Anything where reactions and timing are required can become more or less unplayable though. Luckily, I can't see Nintendo releasing a 2D HDR enabled Mario game anytime soon.
Since there's misinformation here let me clarify LG OLEDs.
C/E/G series are 34ms in 4K and 1080p. They are 67ms in HDR. LG has responded to our HDR game mode petition and will be addressing HDR input lag in a firmware update within next couple weeks.
The B series is 44ms in 4K and 1080p. HDR lag cycles from 44ms up to 60ms and back down again constantly.
Is there top tier competition in console gaming? I would think the controller is a bit of a limiting factor. Most competitive gaming is done on PC with a mouse/keyboard I think.
The X800D while noticeable to me (be advised my benchmark is my monitor which is the mx279h 9ms from stick to display in terms of lag, its one of only a handful of displays that are god tier in input lag) will not be noticeable by the general public or even a lot of gaffers and I used it for a bit with my Pro before getting my KS8000.
The X800D is probably the best low point TV for terms of WCG, HDR and input lag for its price. I got mine for about $520 for the 43 inch.
Is there top tier competition in console gaming? I would think the controller is a bit of a limiting factor. Most competitive gaming is done on PC with a mouse/keyboard I think.
Huh? Many (most?) monitors have less than 10ms input lag, and you can easily use a large monitor as a TV. Pretty sure you can find LCD TV's that are that low too, although it's admittedly difficult.
I never thought much about input lag until I switched TV's to a Sony Bravia, bf4 felt like going from 30 to 60fps, so much more responsive. I couldn't deal with playing on a tv with high input lag again.
PC monitors, even gaming ones are around 10 ms input lag, you are only going significantly lower with a CRT. For the 1-5 ms advertisement, that is response time not input lag.
I'm in a similar situation although my TV has annoyingly high input lag so I game mostly on my 120hz monitor now. Would love an OLED with low latency gaming as I used to play with my consoles hooked up to my receiver and then to my TV with all of the processing algorithms enabled. I used to think souls games were way harder than they actually are because of the input lag haha
My brother has been trying to sell me the 49". Apparently they should be ok.
My lounge has a 65" LG LED and yeah the input lag on that is terrible in non-Game mode. But game mode makes it bearable, but not great.
My Panasonic 42V20A in my gaming room is a legend. I refuse to replace that TV until I know I'm getting a 4K TV with the lowest input lag possible. I think I'll wait till the end of next year.
If it is an early 2016 model it should be affected by this. Those models released early in the year feature a different Mediatek chipset than those released two month ago. Before Sony released a firnware update to reduce the lag, there was a significant difference in input lag between those two chipsets.
Input Lag has got to be the shittiest thing to ever happen to TVs.
Boy do I miss the times when you didn't have to EVER factor this in the buying of a TV.
How the fuck is it not possible to bring this down below 10ms?! What would need to be in there for this to happen? Faster processors? More memory? What?
How could TVs from the 1960's have ZERO input lag and in two thousand fucking sixteen, we can't even get this right?
It's astounding. I'm still using a decade-old CRT HDTV, because I missed the relatively brief window where I could get decent plasmas with only a frame of input lag. I'd love to upgrade, but then I see TV lag numbers being 2+ frames and that's just not an option.
I'm sure there's better options out there, they must exist, but it seems whenever I investigate highly praised models I see this crap.
It's why all of us older gamers who grew up with CRT goodness are now severely crippled. /s
Really mature way of discourse you have. At least you are not vitriolic just for the sake of it, since you actually own an 850D. Did you notice any improvements after the latest FW update?
I played gears 4 half way with hdr before the fw was out and I have to switch to sdr mode to finish the rest of the game. With the last update it was definitely more bearable, but using farsight is definitely still very hard, felt like I am constantly fighting with the right stick. Shadow Warriors 2 was playable from beginning until the end, I think the game has some sort of auto aim.
Then you should change your title that paints a picture very clearly that ALL models are bad. Sounds like you have an agenda? You should have made a better thread that had all TVs. Although it appears that is already made here.
If it is an early 2016 model it should be affected by this. Those models released early in the year feature a different Mediatek chipset than those released two month ago. Before Sony released a firnware update to reduce the lag, there was a significant difference in input lag between those two chipsets.
****. It was delivered several months ago to our contractor. It's an expensive ass TV, got it specifically for 4K gaming, PS4 Pro and a Titan X Pascal rig. Is it technically even possible to reduce the input lag to tolerable levels with the old chipset?
