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Cadillacs and Dinosaurs...possibly Capcom's best beat em up ever? and a dissertation on licensing law...haha

VGEsoterica

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Trying to determine my favorite Capcom beat em up game is about as hard as picking a favorite style of beer; I love them all so how do I determine what quantitative qualities equal "the best".

Cadillacs and Dinosaurs has to many amazing qualities; absolutely perfect beat em up gameplay, graphics and sound that marry perfectly to the overall vibe, an awesome soundtrack that you could listen to and enjoy outside of the game...and just an absolutely absurd story. I mean you are beating up gang members AND dinosaurs with weapons and your fists/feet....while getting the opportunity to drive vintage Cadillac vehicles to run over opponents and have boss fights in. You can't say that about many other games! (except the absolutely terrible Sega CD sequel...but that doesn't even deserve a mention except to say "dont play it")

Even though Cadillacs and Dinosaurs is THAT good, you still have to weigh them against Alien Vs Predator, Final Fight, Battle Circuit, Knights of the Round, Armored Warriors...the list goes on! Capcom's roster of awesome games in this genre is stacked! So is it the best beat em up Capcom ever made? I don't know lol...maybe it is this week? But what do you guys and girls think?

It's so unfortunate something like Cadillacs and Dinosaurs never gets ported though...same with AvP outside of the Capcom arcade stick. I teach entertainment business / law (among other film production classes) and we spend a large chunk of the class discussing licensing; the in's and outs and how not to make a mistake that you will regret later....like obtaining licenses that expire too soon / at all.

Licensing is the number 1 reason we don't get a lot of these awesome old arcade games. Cadillacs and Dinosaurs was based off an existing property and clearly Capcom didn't get a license in perpetuity to the contents of the game. This seems very common in the gaming industry but rare outside of it. When I have to license music rights / general rights for film the licenses are almost always "in perpetuity"....or "forever" in the non-legal terms.

These arcade games based on existing properties? Not so much. Capcom and Sega seem to be the number 1 companies that have these licensing issues where they may own the game but they DON'T have the rights after a certain set period of time to continue to re-release them. Which is a huge loss for gaming in general. I mean I get it...in perpetuity licenses just cost more...but still I find it odd that's the MO of game developers.

Anyway...that's my Sunday law lesson lolol

Curious what others think of Cadillacs and Dinosaurs? Or what your fav beat em up is?
 

Scotty W

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I don’t understand why the license holders would not be eager to have something like this rereleased in order to raise its profile.
 

VGEsoterica

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I don’t understand why the license holders would not be eager to have something like this rereleased in order to raise its profile.

Nor do I. I usually see re-licensing attempts cost way more $$ than the initial license due to the fact the license holder knows you NEED the license and they charge accordingly
 

Scotty W

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Nor do I. I usually see re-licensing attempts cost way more $$ than the initial license due to the fact the license holder knows you NEED the license and they charge accordingly
I bet you could get rich coordinating these deals.
 

ReBurn

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When Cadillacs and Dinosaurs hit the arcade it was during a time when popularity of arcade cabinets was short-lived. Capcom probably didn't think it was worth trying to get a perpetual license for something that they didn't think would live for more than a year. I don't think there's any way they could have expected that people would crave retro games like they do now.
 

Cert.in.Death

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These licensing hurdles primarily exist because game companies weren’t thinking about the long-term or didn’t carry the cachet to negotiate for them. Game licensing was in such an infancy that nobody was worried about or contemplating these concerns and were more intent on getting products out the door that they saw as toys for children.

I had never heard of this title previously. Looks rad.
 

Belmonte

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I don't get it also. Mark Schultz (Xenozoic Tales creator, the comics which C&D is based and one of my favorite artists) was doing a Kickstarter last month with Al Williamson which would benefit from some advertisement. The game would be perfect for this.




His art is so good!



 

VGEsoterica

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I bet you could get rich coordinating these deals.

You can. Not like I CAN lol but people definitely do. There are groups that handle and manage these licenses as bulk portfolios. They arrange deals, etc etc etc.

My experience is more in licensing music for film and television and sports contract negotiations. Well it was...that was an old life/job...but the info remains the same lol
 

Ar¢tos

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Just last week, while cleaning up the garage, I found the box of Cadillacs and Dinosaurs 2, and Angel Devoid for PC.
I know it isn't mine because I never played those games.
I think I was keeping them for a high school friend (20+ years ago), the CaD2 box is in a really shitty state :(
 

VGEsoterica

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Just last week, while cleaning up the garage, I found the box of Cadillacs and Dinosaurs 2, and Angel Devoid for PC.
I know it isn't mine because I never played those games.
I think I was keeping them for a high school friend (20+ years ago), the CaD2 box is in a really shitty state :(

bummer about the box but awesome you found them all the same :)
 
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Saber

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Its the best arcade game period.

So much they lost not doing ports of this game.

License and copyright are damn bitches that stop most of old games to remain relevant these days. And then you heard people defending this attitude only to see treasures like that dissapearing forever.
 

VGEsoterica

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Its the best arcade game period.

So much they lost not doing ports of this game.

License and copyright are damn bitches that stop most of old games to remain relevant these days. And then you heard people defending this attitude only to see treasures like that dissapearing forever.

the issue is there is just no “end run” around the licensing issues gaming faces. Until the works went into public domain rereleasing without proper licensing in place would just result in a lawsuit.
 

Ar¢tos

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bummer about the box but awesome you found them all the same :)
I didn't care much for the game, not my style.
A really big bummer was finding the original box of Legend of Kyrandia in perfect state with disks and manuals just to discover that some idiot formatted 2 of the disks.... That and finding the original box of Monkey Island (1) completely flattened. :messenger_loudly_crying:
 

GrayFoxPL

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Probably best beat'em up ever. Very fond memories from arcades. The art, gameplay, sprites, colors, everything is amazing. The Punisher is my close second.

License for this seems to be in a kinda speculative place.

Few opinions I found:
Current license ownership is generally thorny, muddy, and not public unless the subject of a recent hyperbolic media release. Your best bet is to contact someone central to the original game's licensing negotiations and asking them, such as Mr Mark Schultz. (My best guess is the game license likely reverted to the owner of the Xenozoic copyright after a number of years, whoever that is, likely Mr Schultz still.) – SevenSidedDie

As you can see, the individual copyright credit for the panels found in the comics goes to artist Mark Schultz but the rights-holders for the Xenozoic Tales trademark (and presumably any ongoing use of the work) was Kitchen Sink Press, Inc.

@SevenSidedDie has the jist of it, most likely, though another source to check (that might be more available for questions) would be Denis Kitchen of Kitchen Sink Press, the publisher of Xenozoic Tales. Kitchen Sink Press is out of business, but Denis Kitchen maintains a web presence. – Chuck Dee

 
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VGEsoterica

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Probably best beat'em up ever. Very fond memories from arcades. The art, gameplay, sprites, colors, everything is amazing. The Punisher is my close second.

License for seems to be in a kinda speculative.

Few opinions I found:







and that can be the biggest issue with licensing. Figuring out who owns what and what licenses you need to release. A lot of licenses change owners multiple times in catalog purchases / mergers, etc etc. Tracking down the proper rights holders in and of itself for older works can be a pretty difficult and time consuming process
 

VGEsoterica

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I don't get it also. Mark Schultz (Xenozoic Tales creator, the comics which C&D is based and one of my favorite artists) was doing a Kickstarter last month with Al Williamson which would benefit from some advertisement. The game would be perfect for this.




His art is so good!




That art is top tier stuff. Looks awesome
 

Dr_Salt

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Man Capcom beat em ups were something else. D&D, Battlecircuit and this are all amazing.
 

deriks

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One of the first arcade games I ever played, and I still have fun with it

In Brazil we have a joke with catching an item on this game. The character says something in english, but sounds in portuguese "quer queijo[?]", which means "wants cheese?"
 

MiguelItUp

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This game was so good. I remember when it was first coming out I was so excited to play it, and I never saw it anywhere in Houston, TX.

It wasn't until the next 2-3 years when I went with my family to Spain to visit my dad's side where I found the cabinet and played it, lol. Of ALL places, a random bar in Madrid or Barcelona.
 
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Futaleufu

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Probably the best Capcom beat'em up. It has variety, great SFX, good feedback when you/enemies get hit, unique artstyle and several special moves per character. Mustapha's running kick was totally broken though.
 

Danny Dudekisser

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Ha - you've combined two areas of interest for me:

1) Cadillacs & Dinosaurs - probably my favorite beat-em-up ever. It's been a long time since I've played it, so I dunno.... maybe AVP has overtaken it. But it's a top 3 at the absolute worst. A total classic.

2) Copyright law. I'm a lawyer (by education, anyway), and copyright as it applies to video games is a weird area of interest for me for.... exactly this sorta reason.


This game is one of those holy grail PCBs for me to get someday. I'll get there eventually - just waiting for a JP region board in good condition to pop up.


Anyway, keep it up - this remains one of my favorite Youtube channels.
 
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VGEsoterica

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Ha - you've combined two areas of interest for me:

1) Cadillacs & Dinosaurs - probably my favorite beat-em-up ever. It's been a long time since I've played it, so I dunno.... maybe AVP has overtaken it. But it's a top 3 at the absolute worst. A total classic.

2) Copyright law. I'm a lawyer (by education, anyway), and copyright as it applies to video games is a weird area of interest for me for.... exactly this sorta reason.


This game is one of those holy grail PCBs for me to get someday. I'll get there eventually - just waiting for a JP region board in good condition to pop up.


Anyway, keep it up - this remains one of my favorite Youtube channels.

lol sounds like we share similar interests. Granted my degree is Fine Art and not law...but I’ve spent so much time dealing with contracts and negotiations one gets familiar with it
 

Naked Lunch

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A game like Cadillacs and Dinosaurs absolutely dumps on "newtro" stuff like Castle Crashers, Streets of Rage 4, Battletoads 2020 and any other wannabe beatem'up trying to emulate the classics. They dont makem like they used to...
 
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VGEsoterica

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Love this game, and Alien Vs Predator. They somehow sorted out the licence for the latter on that silly capcom emulation stick

probably due to ease. You know who owns the rights to Alien / Predator. Easy to track down. Comics and the like? Probably a ton more research they decided wasn’t worth their time
 

molasar

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They somehow sorted out the licence for the latter on that silly capcom emulation stick

Probably according to the original license contract they are still allowed to release AvP on arcade devices and the stick is considered as one of them.

probably due to ease. You know who owns the rights to Alien / Predator. Easy to track down. Comics and the like? Probably a ton more research they decided wasn’t worth their time

It reminded me an article about issues for GOG when they want to rerelease some very old PC games.
 

Scotty W

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You can. Not like I CAN lol but people definitely do. There are groups that handle and manage these licenses as bulk portfolios. They arrange deals, etc etc etc.

My experience is more in licensing music for film and television and sports contract negotiations. Well it was...that was an old life/job...but the info remains the same lol
It would be interesting to have a list of games that are in licence hell. I really want that COW sequel to sunset riders.
 

Futaleufu

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It reminded me an article about issues for GOG when they want to rerelease some very old PC games.

For those games without a clear IP holder I would just release the game. Whoever takes the time to send lawyers after you is probably the IP holder.
 

DragoonWalker

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What I love about Cadillacs and Dinosaurs is the feel of the fighting. The sprites, impact, animation, speed, it's all perfect. Punisher also tops in feel.
C&D's pace is not great though. Starts fantastic but middle feel too slow/repetitive. SoR2 continues to the be the best paced beat 'em up ever, one I can replay forever.

Not a furry but Metamorphic Force is as good if not better than C&D, it's a Konami beat 'em up in the Capcom style. Transformation mechanic is sweet:




My favorite though is Vendetta, by far. Kinda clunky but the level design, enemy design, bosses, and environmental attacks are above all else. It's a straight to VHS 80s action movie in arcade form:
 
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genesisblock

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It's Cadillacs... and DINO-SAURS. And you beat them up with. your. fists!!

I had to get an emulator to play throughout the game as my arcade closed down as I was at the age when I'm allowed to get it (16 years old and above)
 

VGEsoterica

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What I love about Cadillacs and Dinosaurs is the feel of the fighting. The sprites, impact, animation, speed, it's all perfect. Punisher also tops in feel.
C&D's pace is not great though. Starts fantastic but middle feel too slow/repetitive. SoR2 continues to the be the best paced beat 'em up ever, one I can replay forever.

Not a furry but Metamorphic Force is as good if not better than C&D, it's a Konami beat 'em up in the Capcom style. Transformation mechanic is sweet:




My favorite though is Vendetta, by far. Kinda clunky but the level design, enemy design, bosses, and environmental attacks are above all else. It's a straight to VHS 80s action movie in arcade form:

Funny I was just playing Vendetta. I get what you mean...it feels like the video game version of some budget VHS rental you’d find at your local movie joint back in the day
 
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Delco Airsoft

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I've never played the game but the show is one of the most badass things ever made! The opening theme is fucking badass!
 

Faithless83

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What I love about Cadillacs and Dinosaurs is the feel of the fighting. The sprites, impact, animation, speed, it's all perfect. Punisher also tops in feel.
C&D's pace is not great though. Starts fantastic but middle feel too slow/repetitive. SoR2 continues to the be the best paced beat 'em up ever, one I can replay forever.

Not a furry but Metamorphic Force is as good if not better than C&D, it's a Konami beat 'em up in the Capcom style. Transformation mechanic is sweet:




My favorite though is Vendetta, by far. Kinda clunky but the level design, enemy design, bosses, and environmental attacks are above all else. It's a straight to VHS 80s action movie in arcade form:

Metamorphic Force is nice, but have you played Violent Storm?

Sadly the audio is a bit muffled, but the OST of this game is amazing.

This game along with AVP and D&D Shadow over Mystara are my favorite Beat'em up arcade games.
 
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VGEsoterica

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Metamorphic Force is nice, but have you played Violent Storm?

Sadly the audio is a bit muffled, but the OST of this game is amazing.

This game along with AVP and D&D Shadow over Mystara are my favorite Beat'em up arcade games.

it just might be on my list of upcoming videos...never know (no it actually is haha. Awesome game)

I did a vid on Shadow Over Mystara when I did a ten part series on the CPS 2 all on original arcade hardware. Epic game. But it doesn’t count as unported as it came to Saturn exclusively in Japan
 

Danny Dudekisser

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it just might be on my list of upcoming videos...never know (no it actually is haha. Awesome game)

I did a vid on Shadow Over Mystara when I did a ten part series on the CPS 2 all on original arcade hardware. Epic game. But it doesn’t count as unported as it came to Saturn exclusively in Japan

You need to bring back the CPS-2 series. Easily my favorite videos.