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Can men and women be "just friends"?
- Thread starter Rookje
- Start date
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Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I've already mentioned what me and my lady friends do, compared to my male friends. They are both two completely different types of entertainment and I enjoy both of them for what they are. I'm not trying to make anything else out of my female friends. I've never tried.
edit: aaaaand with this post, we're back to "Why should I trust you" so it's gonna repeat itself. So boring.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Alright. Well, it's probably not the best idea to assume stuff about people.
This is the cold hard truth right here.
This thread is making me very uncomfortable. I know my particularly dysfunctional form of sexuality probably rules me out here somewhat, but I can honestly say that when I make friends from either gender it's because I enjoy the company of the other person as a person, not a prospective sexual object. I feel like this weirdly dick-led approach to interpersonal relationships is in large part why I've never been very good at befriending males and most of my most rewarding and emotionally intimate friendships have been with the opposite sex. Women aren't horrible monsters who all hate each other and look to exploit and humiliate vulnerable males. They're just people too: ones mercifully free of the idealisation of douchebaggery and the 'bro' mentality.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Oh you ._.
Frank "Trashman" Reynolds
Banned
Only if you don't find them attractive and even then...
SlipperySlope
Banned
I didn't have too much of a choice. She hardly ever answered her phone when I would call (which was about... once a week, give or take). When she wanted to talk, she would literally text me "Call me". I think it was because she lived in a crowded house - I could always hear the noise when we talked.
When we were out together, things were fine. Have fun, flirt, dance, drink, whatever seemed fun at the moment. Kissing in public was fun and she liked it too. One time we even walked the rock jetty's at Balboa Peninsula (quite dangerous actually, but very fun). Then sat at the end of it and watched the sunset and people playing in the water. This was our first date, and when I kissed her. Things typically got heavier in the car or at my place.
What I think did me in, and when she started responding less to my texts, was our date at House of Blues/Downtown Disney. I made the mistake of letting her get into my head, let her know how I think. At the time things seemed fine. We danced after, and played with Legos at the lego store. Had a caricature done.
But something definitely changed after that date. And talking too much I think was it. You live, you learn. I learned that I have to talk less, create more mystery. And NEVER let a girl know how I think.
The next weekend after the HoB was Thanksgiving weekend. Four day weekend, and I wanted to do something on Saturday or Sunday. So I texted her once and called her once (she didn't pick up) on Friday asking if she was available on those days. She didn't respond. I texted her on Sunday asking how her Thanksgiving weekend was. She responded "It was great!! Urs?" We then texted back and forth for a bit. But I could tell from her replies that something was wrong.
I then texted her on Monday saying I could tell there was something wrong, and asking when could we talk it over. I sent a text on Wednesday saying "I miss you
". No response to either this or Monday's text.Then she sent me that four word text on Thursday ending things. I didn't reply to it.
To put the timeline in perspective, the HoB date was on November 21st I believe. Her text ending it was on December 1st. So, a 10 day span.
Oh, and I think if it took a girl three hours minimum to respond to every one of your reaches to her, I think it would get to you after a while too. I didn't notice it at first, but it started bugging me after a while. I never brought it up with her.
SpartanForce
Member
WTF. Here's one mine: http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6928/12922419.jpg
And I would fuck all of them. In fact, I did. Only one, but I felt attracted to all of them. Jezz man, serious, I cannot understand your post. Anyway, guess I have to respect that.
I didn't have too much of a choice. She hardly ever answered her phone when I would call (which was about... once a week, give or take). When she wanted to talk, she would literally text me "Call me". I think it was because she lived in a crowded house - I could always hear the noise when we talked.
When we were out together, things were fine. Have fun, flirt, dance, drink, whatever seemed fun at the moment. Kissing in public was fun and she liked it too. One time we even walked the rock jetty's at Balboa Peninsula (quite dangerous actually, but very fun). Then sat at the end of it and watched the sunset and people playing in the water. This was our first date, and when I kissed her. Things typically got heavier in the car or at my place.
What I think did me in, and when she started responding less to my texts, was our date at House of Blues/Downtown Disney. I made the mistake of letting her get into my head, let her know how I think. At the time things seemed fine. We danced after, and played with Legos at the lego store. Had a caricature done.
But something definitely changed after that date. And talking too much I think was it. You live, you learn. I learned that I have to talk less, create more mystery. And NEVER let a girl know how I think.
The next weekend after the HoB was Thanksgiving weekend. Four day weekend, and I wanted to do something on Saturday or Sunday. So I texted her once and called her once (she didn't pick up) on Friday asking if she was available on those days. She didn't respond. I texted her on Sunday asking how her Thanksgiving weekend was. She responded "It was great!! Urs?" We then texted back and forth for a bit. But I could tell from her replies that something was wrong.
I then texted her on Monday saying I could tell there was something wrong, and asking when could we talk it over. I sent a text on Wednesday saying "I miss you
Then she sent me that four word text on Thursday ending things. I didn't reply to it.
To put the timeline in perspective, the HoB date was on November 21st I believe. Her text ending it was on December 1st. So, a 10 day span.
Oh, and I think if it took a girl three hours minimum to respond to every one of your reaches to her, I think it would get to you after a while too. I didn't notice it at first, but it started bugging me after a while. I never brought it up with her.
but how many minutes was that? come on man, you should have included that in your analysis as well
What about, you know, friendship? Companionship, good conversation, shared experiences, somebody to look to for help or advice if need be. The things we'd hope we'd normally get from friendship regardless of gender. I don't see how this is hard to understand. Claiming that women are, basically, only good for sex has some deeply misogynist undertones I wouldn't think I'd need to point out.
I'm honestly finding this rather bewildering and frustrating. You're all making out my gender to be more shallow and simplistic than I'd ever feared.
drunkendonuts
Member
SlipperySlope
Banned
Oh come on. What's wrong with analyzing a relationship to see where things went wrong? I listed where I think I went wrong.
It's good to learn what you did wrong so you don't repeat them.
Devolution
Member
Yeah, it's insulting towards men too, a lot of the shit being said or implied here.
It's not insulting if there is a valid biological underpinning. I'd say the insult would be from people positioning some sort of deluded ideological vision of how 'things should or ought to be' while ignoring what is.
Take for instance the following survey from Match.com referenced in Psychology Today below. Although the article states that such relationships can and do occur, the survey shows the following:
1. Most people believe it can happen.
2. From the same population, most people secretly wish for more intimate relationships from their friends.
3. Again from the same population, most people have experienced a failure in the belief of male-female friendships.
4. There is a clear difference between the positions of men and women on this issue.
"Do you believe men and women can be platonic friends?
Yes: 83%
No: 11%
Unsure: 6%
Have you had a platonic friendship that crossed the line and became romantic or sexual?
Yes: 62%
No: 36%
Unsure: 2%
Who is more likely to misinterpret the intimacy of friendship for sexual desire?
Men: 64%
Women: 25%
Unsure: 11%
Is it possible to fall in love with someone who first enters your life as a friend?
Yes: 94%
No: 4%
Unsure: 2%
Do you hope that when you do fall in love, your partner will have started out as your friend?
Yes: 71%
No: 9%
Unsure: 20%
Who is better at keeping sex out of a platonic relationship?
Men: 13%
Women: 67%
Unsure: 20%"
ajim
Member
I've had sex with a lot of my female friends now that I think about it. However, I do have a lot that I'm just friends with and nothing more. One or two I'm very good mates with, probably more so than guy mates.
I think being brought up by a single mother makes it easier for me to relate to women, or at least get along with them better.
But yes, you can be 'just friends' with women.
I think being brought up by a single mother makes it easier for me to relate to women, or at least get along with them better.
But yes, you can be 'just friends' with women.
Meh I want to say yes, but all the female friends I have where all MIA when they got boyfriends. Except for 1 girl, who didn't magically disappear. It might be because I introduced the guy to her though. You can be friends with girls, but imo it's better to keep it superficial with them. So technically you can, but why bother really? It's easier to have a good friendship with guys.
Speaking as a male.
edit:
Speaking as a male.
edit:
Yeah forgot about this category. I somehow don't consider these friends, but more like family.
I'm not sure there is a valid biological underpinning. I am gay and have gay (and straight) male friends who I am just friends with. I don't see a biological explanation why it is impossible that a hypothetical man and a hypothetical woman who share similar interests couldn't just be friends in the same way that shouldn't apply to my own situation even more strongly (since with two men the issue ought to be worse, if they are the reason it doesn't work).
Black-Wind
Member
Pretty much this.
Yeah, I can be friends with a woman, got a lot of female friends ... but "just friends" is not likely. If I'm friends with a woman there's gonna be some level of attraction in someway, be it physical or mental, that I find sexually attractive.
I guess it depends on what you feel being "just friends" means. Sure, I can be friends with both genders ... but there's never a level of sexual attraction with my male friends.
Sickboy007
Member
I can't see why we can't reconcile the hypothetical desire to fuck someone attractive with treating members of the opposite sex like human beings.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I think us gay men are here to debunk why this doesn't apply to everyone. Perhaps we're better because of it!
Well put.
It's not even the idea that many friendships develop some romantic element that is so objectionable, it's the repeated assertion that the only reason to associate with 50% of the population is to fuck them.
Thagomizer
Member
I'm also still going to promote the case of FemBros - girls who, while not physically unattractive, are so tomboyish that you treat them like a guy.
Changing "Null set" to "Highly Improbable" ruins the gag and the point.
Yeah I lost the original picture.
There's a range of variation between impossible and possible. Such relationships are possible, and as indicated may even be very positive, but the application of such relationships would not be representative of the majority, and then you have to also put culture into perspective when talking about human beings as a whole.
Same-sex relationships may also provide for different experiences than heterosexual ones due to the fact that children grow up in the same environments regardless of sexual preference. In that way I don't think they would be exactly the same. Being stuck around boys due to "voluntary gender segregation" and growing to like boys is likely going to provide a different experience than being stuck around boys and then growing to girls.
electricshake
Member
Haven't read all this thread, but I think they can be. I've got loads of guy pals who I would never sleep with and I can't imagine they'd want to sleep with me (I'm basically a bro). I think I've only ever slept with one of my pals before, though we're not really friends anymore (but I think that's independent of the shagging). I used to totally fancy my current flatmate, and I told him how I felt, but we're even better friends than we used to be. He has a g/f now, but if he didn't and he made a pass at me, I'd probably go for it, but that's more to do with the fact that I'm an eternal singleton rather than that I like him in that way. Basically I think he's a good looking guy so wouldn't turn it down, but I don't like him enough to make a move\I need a shag.
Edit: This thread is making me think that all my male friends are only pals with me because they think I'm totally repulsive...
Edit: This thread is making me think that all my male friends are only pals with me because they think I'm totally repulsive...
Those sound like sociological (or maybe psychosocial is the better word?) reasons, though, which again says to me that there isn't some biological reason it doesn't happen.
If you are saying that an explanation for the attitude of some men that men and women cannot be friends are because of some internalized culturally-derived values, then I would agree with you. I think that you can see that at work in this topic. What I disagreed with was that there was some biological basis to it, and the examples you gave weren't biological explanations.
Yes... duh?
If you're not attracted to them, yes. Even if you were, it's not like you have to date/fuck/etc a friend just because you're somewhat attracted to them.
I find it completely weird that some people have to be attracted to the person in order to even want to become friends in the first place. Wtf.
If you're not attracted to them, yes. Even if you were, it's not like you have to date/fuck/etc a friend just because you're somewhat attracted to them.
I find it completely weird that some people have to be attracted to the person in order to even want to become friends in the first place. Wtf.
Agreed.
triplestation
Member
If neither parties are attractive, then yes.
I'd say that it also involves biology as a motivating factor and that genetic sexual attraction always exists. Brothers and sisters for instance tend not to develop sexual attraction if they are raised together, but if separated and connected in later years, they may actually develop an increased interest in each other leading to incest. I believe that was the case of separated siblings that had inadvertently married each other unknowingly.
May be this one but I could have sworn it was an older (as in years older) news topic:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-couple-discovered-twins-separated-birth.html
The analysis of how such relationships occur despite the genetic taboo of incest and the sheer odds of coupling led to the implication that genes played the key element in attraction and that people with similar genes but separate ties found each other exceptionally attractive. While sociology is a factor, there is also an underlying genetic one that exists and plays a part in attraction and there is no element of choice over it, only control.
I always like the metaphor of the beating drum of biology. It's always there but gets louder or softer depending on the circumstances and in the case of attraction, genes are a significant motivating factor.
Again, I'm not saying they 'cannot' be friends but that it is challenging to do so and while the belief that this scenario could be optimal is fine, I'm skeptical of belief over practice. That survey from the article I linked to earlier shows that practice and desire don't appear to match said beliefs to the same extent and that such successes in practice would represent the minority.
Ridiculous premise and video. Why would having any sort of attraction limit your ability to be friends with the opposite sex? I have female friends who range from unattractive to drop dead gorgeous but that doesn't limit my friendship with them at all.
The guys in the video seemed like they were in college but their minds are stuck in high school.
The guys in the video seemed like they were in college but their minds are stuck in high school.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I feel bad for straight men thanks to this topic.
don't be, we have it pretty good
I'm convinced many of them just didn't have many (or any?) really good female friends. Once you get past that stage and start looking at things other than how hot a person and rather at their many other qualities, it just doesn't matter.
I can think a female friend of mine is gorgeous and still have little to no attraction to them, just like any other friend.
I've had sex with coworkers before. /stealthbrag Also, coworker =/= friend.
Also, I say yes.... if the chick is not hot.
Yeah I don't get this.
Technosteve
Banned
Can a man and a woman just be friends? Can a man a fleshlight just be "friends"? both answers are NO.
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BJK
Member
'Attempting', or 'wanting'? A very important distinction.
The other mitigating factor is whether she has a wedding ring; that little gold line is one that plenty of guys wouldn't cross.
)naah, to me, ive had the deepest conversations with my "girl-friends"
SouthernDragon
Member
Totally possible.
HarryHengst
Member
A lot (that is: not all) of men are quite misogynistic, even if they dont know it themselves. The complete disrespect they show women is shocking at times. Or the whole idea that, just because they are 'nice' (read: creepy as fuck) to women they deserve sex, is also quite often there. A lot of the replies in this topic shows that perfectly: women are useful for sex, and anything else (i.e. friendship) is only a game you have to play to get them to have sex with you. It's almost like they think women aren't real persons.
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