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Can Nintendo really turn the Wii U around?
- Thread starter nhlducks35
- Start date
Shellshock929
Member
I think that it will turn around. If it happened with the 3DS, I know it will with the Wii U. 2014 will be a much stronger year, with Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, X, and Super Smash Bros.; but there will be other First Party titles announced as well, so who knows what tricks Nintendo has up their sleeves.
I highly doubt the WiiU will do worse than gamecube. MS seriously hurt themselves and Nintendo being out a year later will be able to refine their production abilities to lower the price by another $50.
Their current sales trend s troubling for the industry as a whole so they can't afford to continue to sell this badly during November and December.
Ultimately there are 3-4 things that conditionally will define their long term sales in comparison to the Gamecube.
Whether or not a low cost alternative console like the Ouya can be seen as a preferable alternative budget option.
Will Nintendo compete with Sony on price?
Can MS redo their strategy in after 1.5 years to turn around the foreseeable mistakes they are embracing?
The fourth is more of an X-factor condition. Will at least 2 indie games come along that is exclusive to Nintendo due to whatever reasons become system sellers?
Read the OP.
You have no excuse since you posted 40 minutes after his last edit.
Their current sales trend s troubling for the industry as a whole so they can't afford to continue to sell this badly during November and December.
Ultimately there are 3-4 things that conditionally will define their long term sales in comparison to the Gamecube.
Whether or not a low cost alternative console like the Ouya can be seen as a preferable alternative budget option.
Will Nintendo compete with Sony on price?
Can MS redo their strategy in after 1.5 years to turn around the foreseeable mistakes they are embracing?
The fourth is more of an X-factor condition. Will at least 2 indie games come along that is exclusive to Nintendo due to whatever reasons become system sellers?
Read the OP.
You have no excuse since you posted 40 minutes after his last edit.
Hmm, this sounds better than I had thought. I might actually buy a Wii U...
Mysterious
Banned
Nintendo need to get the Wii U as cheap as possible.
I strongly recommend that they release a software update to allow the system to holistically be controlled by the Wii Remote or the Wii U Pro Controller, independent from the Wii U Gamepad. It should not be too hard to do this. For example, the Wii Remote's IR pointer and the Wii U Pro Controller's primary analog to move the cursor.
Speaking as a huge Nintendo fan, who was satisfied with the Wii, the Gamepad is not appealing in any way or form whatsoever. Yes, Off-TV Play is nice but I like to do my home console gaming on a large screen TV. Yes, the option to have Off-TV Play is nice, but Nintendo should make it such: an optional peripheral. It is obvious that neither the core market or the mass market care about the Wii U Gamepad. In fact, no developer outside of Ubisoft has created any unique experience with the Gamepad. Not even internal teams at Nintendo.
Some people on this forum act like the Gamepad is the second coming of the Wii Remote and how Nintendo can't possibly drop it. I think the market, as shown today, doesn't seem to want it. The Wii U was largely a miscalculated step, and Nintendo should at least attempt to perform at Gamecube levels, which they are currently tracking below. They could do this by position the Wii U as a Gamecube 2.0 of sorts, and then can cut the lifespan of the Wii U short by introducing a successor home platform in 2016.
In order words, do this for the short term to position the Wii U as another Gamecube while simultaneously preparing a "comeback" home platform, incorporating new design philosophies, since clearly, the dogmata involving in the Wii's design is no longer valid in today's market.
I strongly recommend that they release a software update to allow the system to holistically be controlled by the Wii Remote or the Wii U Pro Controller, independent from the Wii U Gamepad. It should not be too hard to do this. For example, the Wii Remote's IR pointer and the Wii U Pro Controller's primary analog to move the cursor.
Speaking as a huge Nintendo fan, who was satisfied with the Wii, the Gamepad is not appealing in any way or form whatsoever. Yes, Off-TV Play is nice but I like to do my home console gaming on a large screen TV. Yes, the option to have Off-TV Play is nice, but Nintendo should make it such: an optional peripheral. It is obvious that neither the core market or the mass market care about the Wii U Gamepad. In fact, no developer outside of Ubisoft has created any unique experience with the Gamepad. Not even internal teams at Nintendo.
Some people on this forum act like the Gamepad is the second coming of the Wii Remote and how Nintendo can't possibly drop it. I think the market, as shown today, doesn't seem to want it. The Wii U was largely a miscalculated step, and Nintendo should at least attempt to perform at Gamecube levels, which they are currently tracking below. They could do this by position the Wii U as a Gamecube 2.0 of sorts, and then can cut the lifespan of the Wii U short by introducing a successor home platform in 2016.
In order words, do this for the short term to position the Wii U as another Gamecube while simultaneously preparing a "comeback" home platform, incorporating new design philosophies, since clearly, the dogmata involving in the Wii's design is no longer valid in today's market.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
In terms of a decent library of games? Sure...
In terms of sales? Nope, way too late for that.
In terms of sales? Nope, way too late for that.
Third party publishers are already abandoning ship, if Nintendo has a disappointing second holiday then that's it.
And retailers aren't going to want to continue wasting shelf space on something that doesn't sell. Especially after two brand new systems come out.
That's why I think it's too late.
Heart Attack
Member
This is not true. I myself bought one for RE remake/0. I know many others who bought one for RE alone.
Captainsweatpants
Member
I'm ready for the next Nintendo console.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
After E3, I'm officially off the Wii U optimism train...
Mysterious
Banned
Do you have any evidence of Donkey Kong being a system seller on either the Gamecube, Wii, Nintendo DS or Nintendo 3DS platforms?
Same. They have no idea what they are doing anymore.
People on this forum saying they'll turn around by performing the same strategies they executed in 2011 to "fix the 3DS" are not taking into consideration that the home console and portable handheld markets are completely different. Nintendo has always dominated the handheld market in comparison to their competition. These same strategies, price cut and steady release of games, did not help the Gamecube.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Before E3, I had hope. After E3, I have less hope.
Edit : I really like your ideas, Mysterious. I would love to buy a Wii U with just the Pro Controller if it meant spending significantly less money.
Edit : I really like your ideas, Mysterious. I would love to buy a Wii U with just the Pro Controller if it meant spending significantly less money.
lwilliams3
Member
Hmm, I think it is too soon discuss console war places. From the past week alone, for example, one company advanced its quest of committing PR suicide, and the other got most of its praises by basically saying, "Umm yeah, we ain't doing that shit."
In terms of the console war, just sit back and enjoy the chaos. There are too many variables to determine how all of this end.
I think it is safe to say that the Wii U will be better off than what it is now, but that's about it.
Captainsweatpants
Member
Ninja Scooter
Member
Nope. Console gamers don't want what Nintendo is selling. And the amount of people who will be swayed by another console Mario/Mario Kart/Zelda is a shrinking demographic. The Wii U will be Nintendo's lowest selling console ever.
Seeing how they have botched and been completely unprepared for during the Wii U's first year, the year head start they will have on Sony/MS, really shows how incompetent Nintendo was. They really thought the Wii name carried as much cache as Apple or iPhone and would sell on it's own. That's my only explanation for how pitiful their output has been. How else would you explain their "big guns" for this upcoming hugely important holiday season being a Zelda WW port and a sequel to a 3DS Mario game. Wouldn't be surprised if they had to rush those games out too.
Forget about just video games, hell take the tech industry in general and name me one time an unmitigated disaster like the Wii U has "turned it around"? This would be the equivalent of HP "turning around" the TouchPad tablet, or RIM "Turning around" that new Blackberry phone that nobody wants.
Seeing how they have botched and been completely unprepared for during the Wii U's first year, the year head start they will have on Sony/MS, really shows how incompetent Nintendo was. They really thought the Wii name carried as much cache as Apple or iPhone and would sell on it's own. That's my only explanation for how pitiful their output has been. How else would you explain their "big guns" for this upcoming hugely important holiday season being a Zelda WW port and a sequel to a 3DS Mario game. Wouldn't be surprised if they had to rush those games out too.
Forget about just video games, hell take the tech industry in general and name me one time an unmitigated disaster like the Wii U has "turned it around"? This would be the equivalent of HP "turning around" the TouchPad tablet, or RIM "Turning around" that new Blackberry phone that nobody wants.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
It's not looking too good but they definitely still have a chance for modest success. Smash will do wonders, but they really have to step up their game with other fresh titles.
Also get more aggressive with pricing and marketing.
Also get more aggressive with pricing and marketing.
StreetsAhead
Member
Nintendo is "selling" at the moment New Super Mario Bros., Nintendo Land, & Lego City Undercover in the west.
Also going from 8 million to 34 million sales, just for Mario Kart, was what? A shrinking demographic expanding? Or does it not count because the Wii was a 'fad'?
So is the problem it's a sequel, or that it's a sequel to a 3DS game?
Why are you ignoring Wii Party, Wii Fit, & Donkey Kong.
Ignoring Wind Waker for a moment, because ports like this generally sell less regardless, not a single one of those games' predecessors has sold under 5 million copies.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
With this disastrous launch? Absolutely. The damage is done and the ship has sailed.
Expect a few spikes in sales when the Nintendo games come out and nothing more...
Ninja Scooter
Member
Let's pretend that the Wii didn't cater to a completely different market that no longer wants a new console system. Lets pretend that a huge chunk of sales of Wii and it's software was not loyal Nintendo fans. NSMB U is not selling anywhere near what the Wii version did, what makes you think that Mario Kart U won't see a similar regression? People on Wii bought those games because Wii Sports had already sold them the system.
In the sense that anything is possible, sure. If you're asking for a statistical likelihood, I'd put the chances in the low single digits.
Of course, all of this depends on what "turning around" the Wii U means to you. I can still imagine the system being profitable overall in the long haul, for example, even if it has a very small user base. It's possible. If you mean "win the generation" or "3DS-esque renaissance," then I will stick with low single digits.
Of course, all of this depends on what "turning around" the Wii U means to you. I can still imagine the system being profitable overall in the long haul, for example, even if it has a very small user base. It's possible. If you mean "win the generation" or "3DS-esque renaissance," then I will stick with low single digits.
shinra-bansho
Member
Define "turn around."
lwilliams3
Member
This is not the first time people underestimated Nintendo's ability to turn things around to their favor. Actually, this is not exclusive to Nintendo. Even the Vita probably could recover if Sony really cared.
evilromero
Member
Just two weeks after launch with Pikmin.
Seriously.
People got Wii because of the motion controller and also picked up Mario Kart because it happened to be there.
People are not buying Wii U because of a generalized maintream appeal. Kart will sell consoles as much as Gamecube did, but Gamecube had way more going for it in that arena.
Ninja Scooter
Member
the ONLY time they've done this is with 3DS, and, as many people have pointed out, their advantages in the portable market do not directly translate over to consoles. People act like Nintendo has some Midas touch-esque history with this. Prior to that they failed to turn around GC and failed to turn around N64 despite their best efforts.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
You misread what I wrote. I said they always have the potential to come up with a game changing franchise. And they do.
I don't see where you're getting "two failed consoles" from though. The N64 was a letdown from the SNES, but it turned a profit, like the GC did after it. Both were bottom line business successes.
StreetsAhead
Member
Then the casuals who also bought both Xbox and Sony should have moved on and the console market next gen will see a significant decline, too.
Neither is NSMB2 on the 3DS, which is in a much healthier place. You're the one arguing that the market for Nintendo franchises like 3D Mario, Mario Kart, and Zelda is declining, you prove it.
Melee being the best selling Gamecube game and Brawl the highest opening for a Wii game in the US could be interpreted as the series having a higher "must have it now" value than other Nintendo series.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Just because a system has Nintendo first-party support doesn't exactly guarantee it the same level of success.
The N64 had Nintendo releasing Goldeneye 007, 1080 Snowboarding, Kobey Bryant in NBA Courtside, Perfect Dark, Wave Race 64, Star Fox 64, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Pokemon Stadium, Super Mario 64, Pilotwings 64, Cruisn' USA, Mario Kart 64, Super Smash Bros., etc. All those games were million sellers. Million sellers! Not only that but there is a great variety in the first-party software. You can almost call N64 the first dudebro system because of the large amount of teen-young college kids playing N64 games split-screen multiplayer. It also had hugely successful exclusive third party games like Rogue Squadron, WCW No Mercy, and Turok helping drive the system.
The GameCube lost about 12 million hardware consumers with the loss of FPS and Wrestling games. Nintendo also sort of released a Mario and Zelda title which didn't seem to resonate as well with consumers as previous epic titles did on the N64. I think the GameCube was seemed as more of haven for children and lost that "teen" market it once had with the N64.
The Wii basically said, let's sell consoles to adults who never play games. Wii Sports, Wi Play, and Wii Fit introduced video games as an acceptable activity to non-gaming adults. It then allowed Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. to sell gangbusters to most of that ever green audience.
With the Wii U. It is hard to gauge where it will land in comparison to the previous three generation of consoles. However, just having "Nintendo first-party" support doesn't exactly give you a concrete figure to expect. Even Nintendo first-party support has had different momentum swings in the types of IP introduced, and how successful they are with the audience.
The N64 had Nintendo releasing Goldeneye 007, 1080 Snowboarding, Kobey Bryant in NBA Courtside, Perfect Dark, Wave Race 64, Star Fox 64, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Pokemon Stadium, Super Mario 64, Pilotwings 64, Cruisn' USA, Mario Kart 64, Super Smash Bros., etc. All those games were million sellers. Million sellers! Not only that but there is a great variety in the first-party software. You can almost call N64 the first dudebro system because of the large amount of teen-young college kids playing N64 games split-screen multiplayer. It also had hugely successful exclusive third party games like Rogue Squadron, WCW No Mercy, and Turok helping drive the system.
The GameCube lost about 12 million hardware consumers with the loss of FPS and Wrestling games. Nintendo also sort of released a Mario and Zelda title which didn't seem to resonate as well with consumers as previous epic titles did on the N64. I think the GameCube was seemed as more of haven for children and lost that "teen" market it once had with the N64.
The Wii basically said, let's sell consoles to adults who never play games. Wii Sports, Wi Play, and Wii Fit introduced video games as an acceptable activity to non-gaming adults. It then allowed Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. to sell gangbusters to most of that ever green audience.
With the Wii U. It is hard to gauge where it will land in comparison to the previous three generation of consoles. However, just having "Nintendo first-party" support doesn't exactly give you a concrete figure to expect. Even Nintendo first-party support has had different momentum swings in the types of IP introduced, and how successful they are with the audience.
I'm not following. PS3 and Xbox 360's first 3 years were on hardcore. Arguably all of PS3's lifespan with BDROM as a bonus. PS3 tried move but it didn't really catch on. Microsoft is hellbent on waggling XboxOne, but I don't think it's going to work.
Ah, but that was the magic of the Wii. The power of marketing can do wonders and those people that were drawn in are now familiar with franchises and will want more of them. Nintendo is sitting on a ton of cash reserves from Wii, DS and now 3DS. Expect a marketing blitz like you've never seen come fall and winter.
Nightstick11
Banned
The N64 was a failure now? That thing was a veritable money-tree.
Aquamarine
Member
Omitting launch-season data allows me to highlight greater visual discrepancies between the two consoles.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
The DS. Even Nintendo were talking like it was just there to tread water until the real GBA successor came along, before Nintendogs became a smash.
Not to mention, the original Famicom wasn't much for two years before Super Mario Bros. came along.
Keep in mind we're all of 6 months into the U's lifespan. I'm not expecting a huge turn around, but I see no reason it can't end up with a respectable run if they can get the price down with a solid pack in for a holiday or two.
Ninja Scooter
Member
N64>GC>Wii U in terms of sales, and all three consoles were basically Nintendo only machines. The Wii U's pitiful sales are simply proving that the Wii was nothing more than an outlier. Lightning in a bottle. As much as people hate to say it, yes, a FAD.
So you think Donkey Kong will completely turn things around for Wii U?
Wii U isn't going to be the "hot new gadget" this year like the PS4/Xbone and it's not going to be the best value for consumers either - 360/PS3 will be cheaper and have way more games (and will also be riding the GTAV hype wave).
You're talking about an industry in which a competitor, Microsoft, makes several billion USD in profit per quarter. I do expect them to have way too many ads if XboxOne flops.
Nintendo is a large company with lots of programmers and engineers on payroll. A warchest can quickly become spent.
I can't honestly see it happening (and I own one). The current sales are absolutely abysmal, there's no clear vision to communicate to potential customers, Nintendo aren't supporting it with any kind of marketing, and the current decent-ish third party support - for a Nintendo console - will almost certainly tail off when the present batch of games fails to sell. It'll get a boost when Mario Kart and Smash Bros hit, but I'd be surprised if the end tally hits Gamecube numbers (around 20m, I believe). Let's not forget that Gamecube had all the same series as Wii U is getting now and didn't exactly set the world on fire. In this economy, the market to be a 'second console' will logically be much smaller than it has been in the past and that's the only way I can see the Wii U getting into the hands of anyone but the most die-hard Nintendo fans. Let's not forget that the 3DS was following the DS, a handheld with a fantastic reputation among all audiences, so people were more willing to take a chance on it once the price became acceptable and the games arrived. The Wii brand, on the other hand, is severely tainted (unfairly, but that's beside the point) and I doubt many gamers will be in a rush to pick up its successor unless Nintendo have a massive game-changing surprise up their sleeve. Judging by their E3 Direct, surprises don't exactly look forthcoming right now.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
After further consideration I'm leaning towards viewing 2013 as the actual launch for the Wii U. It's clear that due to whatever behind the scenes delays, development of practically everything for the Wii U is about six months to one year behind schedule.
In the long run, under the assumption their production stabilizes, I do think they can come back to the point Wii U won't sell less than the Gamecube. It'll take longer than it could have though and that will cut off the potential they might have had to go bigger by the end of the system's useful lifespan.
I do strongly suspect those who demand Nintendo "change their ways" will get their wish, but maybe not in the form hoped for. I can't see Nintendo just making a clone of a "conventional" enthusiast/AAA game console in 4 years after dumping the Wii U. I think they'll do something much more drastic, like go with the hypothetical console/handheld hybrid that streams to the TV when you're in the home.
There's never going to be a literal Gamecube 2 or 3, probably. I'm optimistic enough to think if they do consolidate all their resources in a single device - and that includes software - they could carve out a potent niche for themselves. They'd be able to put too much content on a single platform not to. People gripe about having to buy Nintendo hardware to play Nintendo games, but if it's only one device to buy and not two, there could be a positive effect.
In the long run, under the assumption their production stabilizes, I do think they can come back to the point Wii U won't sell less than the Gamecube. It'll take longer than it could have though and that will cut off the potential they might have had to go bigger by the end of the system's useful lifespan.
I do strongly suspect those who demand Nintendo "change their ways" will get their wish, but maybe not in the form hoped for. I can't see Nintendo just making a clone of a "conventional" enthusiast/AAA game console in 4 years after dumping the Wii U. I think they'll do something much more drastic, like go with the hypothetical console/handheld hybrid that streams to the TV when you're in the home.
There's never going to be a literal Gamecube 2 or 3, probably. I'm optimistic enough to think if they do consolidate all their resources in a single device - and that includes software - they could carve out a potent niche for themselves. They'd be able to put too much content on a single platform not to. People gripe about having to buy Nintendo hardware to play Nintendo games, but if it's only one device to buy and not two, there could be a positive effect.
Didn't work too hot for Surface, isn't working too hot for Windows Phone, isn't working at all for Windows 8.
To be fair, MS doesn't do jack shit about advertising Windows phone. I saw a lot of surface commercial though.
StreetsAhead
Member
There were still plenty of people who bought a PS3 soley for the Blu-Ray drive. My father, being on and I know of other people, who never bought a single game for their system. "Casuals" were the Singstar/Eye-Toy users on PS2, too.
My point is that people argue the market that bought the Wii has moved on, but I'd argue that bringing those casuals back is going to be a problem for all three makers, not just Nintendo.
Eventually it starts to sound like 'That data didn't match the point I was trying to make, so I discarded it.'
Why do you think it will work for Nintendo then?
Been proven to work with Wii, DS and 3DS. Nintendo knows how to market properly when they have games and money.
Buckethead
Banned
GameCube had a lot of fantastic first and third party titles so it will not get close to the level of success they had with that console.
That being said I think they could make a strong push for 2nd although I wonder if they should just use Wii U as a testing ground for their next console and build upon it.
That being said I think they could make a strong push for 2nd although I wonder if they should just use Wii U as a testing ground for their next console and build upon it.
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