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[Kyosaiga]

Barney Frank, the former Massachusetts Congressman who retired from the House of Representatives in 2013, is perhaps best known for a bill that carries his name: the Dodd-Frank Act, which aimed to reform Wall Street after the financial crash. Frank is also known for his acerbic personality and willingness to speak freely.

With the primary season in both parties dominating the news, I called Frank to get his views on both races. We discussed his problems with Jon Stewart, Justice Scalia, Bernie Sanders, Bernie Sanders supporters, The Big Short, and, of course, Donald Trump. The conversation has been edited and condensed.

Here are some good gems, but the whole thing is straight gold.

Isaac Chotiner: What do you make of Bernie Sanders’ success thus far, even if he is likely to come up short in terms of delegates?

Barney Frank: Remember he’s way behind not just in delegates but in votes.

Yeah I know, but still—

It’s ironic that we complain about voter suppression and shortened voting times and then we have so many caucuses. The caucuses are the least democratic political operation in America. They cater to the people who have a lot of time on their hands, and what’s interesting is Sanders is the nominee of the caucuses and Hillary is the nominee of the primaries.

I am disappointed by the voters who say, “OK I’m just going to show you how angry I am!” And I’m particularly unimpressed with people who sat out the Congressional elections of 2010 and 2014 and then are angry at Democrats because we haven’t been able to produce public policies they like. They contributed to the public policy problems and now they are blaming other people for their own failure to vote, and then it’s like, “Oh look at this terrible system,” but it was their voting behavior that brought it about.

So it seems like you’re saying Bernie’s voters have a slightly unrealistic sense about the political process. And that this is driven—

I didn’t say slightly.

OK.

I think that part of the argument that people like Sanders would make is that, the financial system is corrupt fundamentally and that we don’t want to merely make it slightly more stable—

Well if that’s the case it’s even dumber than I thought. The financial system is people lending money to other people so they can do things. I do think that he overstates it when he says, “they’re all corrupt.” It’s simply not true. And by the way, when it comes to specifics, the only specific I have heard is Glass-Steagall, which makes very little change in the finance system.

I think he gets a pass from the media. Other than Glass-Steagall, what did he propose in 2009 and 2010 when he was a senator when we were dealing with this? The answer is nothing. Why haven’t you looked at his record?

Do you think she should release her Wall Street speeches?

Yeah, but I don’t think anybody is really against her because she won’t. By the way, I think Sanders has been outrageously McCarthyite on that.
McCarthyite?

Yes, I saw one commercial that said the big companies weren’t punished. Why? Well, maybe it’s because Hillary is getting speaking fees. So the secretary of state should have been indicting people? I mean, yes, McCarthyite in the sense that it’s guilt by association. He complains about what she did with regards to all this money stuff. Where’s the beef of that?
OK—

What Sanders basically says is, “They’re trying to bribe you.” Well what do they get for money? He shows nothing.

There have been a couple of cases of Republican senators trying to weaken the Dodd-Frank Act. Elizabeth Warren has been a much more successful defender of that bill than Sen. Sanders has been.

There was this complaint, “Oh she had contributions from Wall Street.” So did Barack
Obama. So does almost every Democrat because you can’t unilaterally disarm.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...frank_is_not_impressed_by_bernie_sanders.html

If only regular politicians could be this blunt.

Man was dropping truth nuclear warheads.

 

[Juice]

Retired Barney is best Barney. Pure gold.

 

[Frozenprince]

Barney is an old New England Dem, cut his teeth in the same places Bernie did.

He's not wrong.

 

[catmincer]

Can't say he isn't speaking the truth.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Beautiful.

 

[Henchmen21]

Says the guy who's now a lobbyist for Big Business. Guy's a corrupt tool.

 

[devilhawk]

He agrees on needing to release the speeches. Probably the most interesting thing there.

 

[johnsmith]

He's the best.

Did you ever know Scalia at all?

I met him a couple of times.

What did you think of him?

I was troubled that his homophobia never got mentioned when he died. If he had been as comfortably prejudiced against African Americans, or women, or a lot of other groups, he would not have been considered such a wonderful person. He was a bigot. He expressed prejudice in his opinions.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Like music to my ears

 

[RastaMentality]

He's the best.

Did you ever know Scalia at all?

I met him a couple of times.

What did you think of him?

I was troubled that his homophobia never got mentioned when he died. If he had been as comfortably prejudiced against African Americans, or women, or a lot of other groups, he would not have been considered such a wonderful person. He was a bigot. He expressed prejudice in his opinions.

I think this is probably just because homophobia is just more accepted in general. Liberals know Scalia hates women and black people.

 

[Kyosaiga]

Says the guy who's now a lobbyist for Big Business. Guys a corrupt tool.

The same guy who passed the most significant piece of financial regulation in decades.

I work for a telecommunications company, does that mean I support data caps, slow speeds, and local monopolies?

 

[Henchmen21]

The same guy who passed the most significant piece of financial regulation in decades.

I work for a telecommunications company, does that mean I support data caps, slow speeds, and local monopolies?

Dodd-Frank was inept at most. Like most modern bills, it was an attempt to appear to be fighting corruption while only giving a slap on the wrist.

As for your second post, depends on if you lobby for the same corrupt people you were supposed to be fighting against after you retire.

 

[Frozenprince]

Dodd-Frank was inept at most. Like most modern bills, it was an attempt to appear to be fighting corruption while only giving a slap on the wrist.

As for your second post, depends on if you lobby for the same corrupt people you were supposed to be fighting against after you retire.

The man does speaking engagements. He's retired, he has no power anymore.

 

[Kyosaiga]

Dodd-Frank was inept at most. Like most modern bills, it was an attempt to appear to be fighting corruption while only giving a slap on the wrist.

As for your second post, depends on if you lobby for the same corrupt people you were supposed to be fighting against after you retire.

Most of the bill hasn't been implemented yet.

Try again.

 

[Paskil]

Says the guy who's now a lobbyist for Big Business. Guy's a corrupt tool.

I work in state government. Welp, I guess I'm the establishment tool, then.

 

[Henchmen21]

Most of the bill hasn't been implemented yet.

Try again.

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

 

[excelsiorlef]

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

Wait you're accusing him of lobbying against his own bill?

 

[Jonm1010]

Frank makes a lot of good points but I also think people are right to point out that Frank himself is not exactly without some glaring faults.

 

[Frozenprince]

Frank makes a lot of good points but I also think people are right to point out that Frank himself is not exactly without some glaring faults.

There is this stupid need we've got now for the messenger to be some saintly other above the rest.

The man has valid points from his own perspective, that's all that should matter here.

 

[Brinbe]

Great interview. And of course people come in and try to crap all over Barney Frank instead of saying anything about the substance of what he actually said.

 

[Kangi]

And I’m particularly unimpressed with people who sat out the Congressional elections of 2010 and 2014 and then are angry at Democrats because we haven’t been able to produce public policies they like. They contributed to the public policy problems and now they are blaming other people for their own failure to vote [...]

Preach.

 

[Damaniel]

Dodd-Frank was inept at most. Like most modern bills, it was an attempt to appear to be fighting corruption while only giving a slap on the wrist.

As for your second post, depends on if you lobby for the same corrupt people you were supposed to be fighting against after you retire.

In other words, it's not written by Bernie so it's worthless. I wonder if there's any room under the bus for Barney Frank - it's pretty crowded with all of the Congresspeople, governors, unions and newspaper editors under there.

Barney is absolutely right in his analysis and I agree with a lot of what he says - Bernie only wins delegates in tiny little caucus states where mere thousands (or low tens of thousands) of votes determine who gets them while Hillary wins among voters in states where Democrats come out and vote for actual Democrats. Spending decades calling everyone and everything not Bernie corrupt, and then doing nothing of real note to fix the problems he complains about, tends to make people not like you much. His history in the Senate has been nearly non-eventful, other than all the time he spends shitting on pretty much everybody who isn't him.

I also tend to think the speeches thing is overblown. I don't care what she said - I care what she does. There's no evidence that Hillary is some corrupt shill who plans to sell us all out to the oligarchy - in fact, her record as a Senator says otherwise. She can release them if she wants, but they don't affect my vote one way or the other.

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

Hmmm. why would Barney Frank lobby against a bill called the *Dodd-Frank* Act? He fucking sponsored the damn thing! Some Bernie supporters need to get out of their echo chambers at /r/s4p and caucus99percent and read some things about *actual* politics for a change.

 

[SamVimes]

Blaming Sanders voters for the mid-terms is pretty funny when no one voted. Where were the people that made you a senator? Where were the Hillary voters? What about the Obama voters?

 

[Kyosaiga]

Blaming Sanders voters for the mid-terms is pretty funny when no one voted. Where were the people that made you a senator? Where were the Hillary voters? What about the Obama voters?

He was calling out everyone there.

Not sure how you got that.

 

[SamVimes]

He was calling out everyone there.

Not sure how you got that.

"I am disappointed by the voters who say, “OK I’m just going to show you how angry I am!” And I’m particularly unimpressed with people who sat out the Congressional elections of 2010 and 2014 and then are angry at Democrats because we haven’t been able to produce public policies they like. They contributed to the public policy problems and now they are blaming other people for their own failure to vote, and then it’s like, “Oh look at this terrible system,” but it was their voting behavior that brought it about."
It's pretty obvious where he's going here. The angry voters aren't voting Clinton for the most part.

 

[Jonm1010]

There is this stupid need we've got now for the messenger to be some saintly other above the rest.

The man has valid points from his own perspective, that's all that should matter here.

Vice versa there is a tendency for those that like a message to fight tooth and nail to defend anyone attempting to make a case that the author of their favored message is not without a relevant flaw.

I am actually a huge Barney Frank fan and spent a lot of time defending some of the day to day happenings during the financial reform process from more ardent liberals who were demanding too much and conservatives trying to falsely frame him. That doesn't mean I can't see some flaws in his logic here or can't respect some of the more well articulated rebuttals to some of his arguments.

 

[ivysaur12]

What did you make of The Big Short, by the way?

I didn’t see the movie. I read the book. Why?

It’s good.

Well, I know the situation, I read the book. I am told at the end of the movie they say nothing changed, which is nonsense.

The movie does say something like that. The politics of the movie are actually interesting because it’s more cynical than I think people like you are.

Right, so why would I want to see it?

Well, it’s got good acting and things like that.

I’m not a drama critic. Part of the problem is there is a tendency in the media to demonize politics to the extent that it’s become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whether with Jon Stewart or House of Cards or The Big Short. It basically tells people, “Everybody stinks, they’re all no good,” and that’s one of the reasons people don’t participate.

I don't disagree here.

 

[davepoobond]

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

the FRANK in Dodd-FRANK is not about a sausage.

 

[Kangi]

the FRANK in Dodd-FRANK is not about a sausage.

Though I heard he's fond of them!

 

[davepoobond]

Though I heard he's fond of them!

He is just part of the establishment man! Gay people are part of the establishment!!!!n

 

[Kangi]

He is just part of the establishment man! Gay people are part of the establishment!!!!n

Can confirm. Am establishment. Performed secret gay establishment coup in SC.

 

[Jenov]

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

 

[John Dunbar]

is there any reason to believe that the majority or at least a sizable chunk of sanders voters did not vote in 2010 and 2014? besides the ones who were too young to vote in those elections, of course.

 

[davepoobond]

is there any reason to believe that the majority or at least most of sanders voters did not vote in 2010 and 2014? besides the ones who were too young to vote in those elections, of course.

That Republicans are controlling congress should be enough.

 

[Cipherr]

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Anyways, every 4 years everyone claims it's going to be 'different' this time. So we will certainly get our chance to see if the "feel the bern" folks show up in the midterms this time. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[excelsiorlef]

is there any reason to believe that the majority or at least a sizable chunk of sanders voters did not vote in 2010 and 2014? besides the ones who were too young to vote in those elections, of course.

Most of his major support comes from the demographic that generally doesn't vote. So it's not a stretch.

 

[Irnbru]

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

Da fuq.

Great article, so articulate on the same reasons why I dislike Sanders.

 

[Joeytj]

Oh wow, I missed Frank.


So good. And yeah, like everyone else, I'm getting tired of Bernie supporters. I spend my day with a Bernie supporter at work showing me anti-Hillary memes and gifs. I'm not a die-hard Hillary fan and can relate to Sander supporters as I supported Obama all the way in 2008, so I used to just laugh along with the memes or use sarcasm.

But it's getting annoying and down right ridiculous. The whole bird thing is nonsensical and they've come up with a whole bunch of memes about Hillary wanting to copy the bird thing, as If she's been copying Bernie all this time at her rallys.

Which, no. They are basically now campaigning against a fiction of Hilllary only they respond too, but nobody else really. Just look at the actual election.

 

[Jonm1010]

I don't disagree here.

Outside of the carry over from his longstanding displeasure of Bernie Sanders that is hit and miss on landing its mark, this is probably the only thing he said that I think I have some strong disagreements with.

But like he said, he's not a drama critic, so having a somewhat reductionist, simplistic and equivocating view of something like that doesn't surprise or bother me too much.

 

[hawk2025]

That was fantastic.

Well-placed and sharp criticism. His words are going to sting to a whole lot of people.

 

[Jonm1010]

Most of his major support comes from the demographic that generally doesn't vote. So it's not a stretch.

Problem there is Democrats across the board don't show up for midterms so the criticism is very applicable to Hillary supporters as well. Not to mention on his own party and members as well, who have continually failed to come up with an effective strategy to drive up midterm turnout. In fact in both 2010 and 14 democrats continued to largely follow remarkably spineless strategies of running away from their positions and playing into Republican narratives.

But Barney is human and he has his biases like everyone else.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Problem there is Democrats across the board don't show up for midterms so the criticism is very applicable to Hillary supporters as well. Not to mention on his own party and members as well, who have continually failed to come up with an effective strategy to drive up midterm turnout. In fact in both 2010 and 14 democrats continued to largely follow remarkably spineless strategies of running away from their positions and playing into Republican narratives.

But Barney is human and he has his biases like everyone else.

He was talking about them too. 2010 and 2014 are shameful

 

[GnawtyDog]

Blaming Sanders voters for the mid-terms is pretty funny when no one voted. Where were the people that made you a senator? Where were the Hillary voters? What about the Obama voters?

I say it's a 3 way tide. 1/3 young voters (the Bernie, old Obama coalition), 1/3 democrats of all walks of life, 1/3 democratic strategy to harness the vote (running away from Obama, poor leadership, so-so candidates). It was a failure at all levels pretty much.

 

[HK-47]

Should have been a longer interview

 

[Spinifex]

Was a fan of Barney's until he threw trans people under the bus with ENDA. He can go kick rocks.

 

[ivysaur12]

He was talking about them too. 2010 and 2014 are shameful

And a strong progressive stand probably wouldn't have saved any of those candidates in 2010 or 2014 either. It's just the nature of the coalition that the Democrarts have built + and incumbent in the White House.

2010 was a particularly unique year. 2014 had Ebola, but wasn't nearly as remarkable as 2010.

I don't think running to Trump is going to save Ron Johnson in WI, for example.

 

[HK-47]

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

Critical failure?

 

[Matt]

He's right on pretty much all counts, and those here trying to put down fucking Barney Frank are amazingly off base.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Was a fan of Barney's until he threw trans people under the bus with ENDA. He can go kick rocks.

What did he do?

 

[Dog Problems]

Random fact about Barney Frank: his dad's cousin was married to Shemp of The Three Stooges.