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[Trojita]

As much as he has done over the years, I think Frank comes off as out of touch in this dialogue.

I am disappointed by the voters who say, “OK I’m just going to show you how angry I am!” And I’m particularly unimpressed with people who sat out the Congressional elections of 2010 and 2014 and then are angry at Democrats because we haven’t been able to produce public policies they like. They contributed to the public policy problems and now they are blaming other people for their own failure to vote, and then it’s like, “Oh look at this terrible system,” but it was their voting behavior that brought it about.

You can't prove these people didn't vote last time.

It’s ironic that we complain about voter suppression and shortened voting times and then we have so many caucuses. The caucuses are the least democratic political operation in America. They cater to the people who have a lot of time on their hands, and what’s interesting is Sanders is the nominee of the caucuses and Hillary is the nominee of the primaries.

The caucus is a dnc state decision. Blame the DNC for not enforcing a better system. Also don't talk about democratic political operations and then not even mention the Super Delegate system.

I think that part of the argument that people like Sanders would make is that, the financial system is corrupt fundamentally and that we don’t want to merely make it slightly more stable—

Well if that’s the case it’s even dumber than I thought. The financial system is people lending money to other people so they can do things. I do think that he overstates it when he says, “they’re all corrupt.” It’s simply not true. And by the way, when it comes to specifics, the only specific I have heard is Glass-Steagall, which makes very little change in the finance system.

Simplifying the financial system as just that is hilarious. The system itself is deeply complex. You could have a long dialogue about how firms were trading and selling toxic assets for hours.

Do you think she should release her Wall Street speeches?

Yeah, but I don’t think anybody is really against her because she won’t. By the way, I think Sanders has been outrageously McCarthyite on that.

As someone that lived through that era I'm honestly surprised he would even use that term in this context.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Because that is how you get shit done.

But why is that an issue right now? Was that even an issue to begin with? There's not a civil war going on like in the GOP. It sounds like you're making a positive out of something that's for the course. I mean it's good, but it's the norm.

 

[Kthulhu]

Other than Glass-Steagall, what did he propose in 2009 and 2010 when he was a senator when we were dealing with this? The answer is nothing. Why haven’t you looked at his record?

In case anyone wants to fact check this, here is a link to Bernie's sponsord bills from '09-'10

https://www.congress.gov/member/ber...={"sponsorship":"sponsored","congress":"111"}

And it won't be because of people like Frank lobbying against it.

Try again.

Could you provide a source for this?

 

[Macam]

A lot of this stuff is a repeat of what he said on Maher's show last week.

And I like Frank, but he has his blind spots, as his dramatic oversimplification of the financial system indicates. He's better on some socially liberal issues and just calling out Republicans on their bullshit (Democrats, not so much). In other words, a nice backbencher for the party, and a happy warrior in that sense.

He's also an in-the-tank Clinton supporter, which is really what this thread is about. Really, it was just a matter of time since all the other Clinton love fests get locked eventually.

I give this one, oh, another 10 pages.

 

[soleil]

Instead of making excuses for not producing results in response to liberal frustration that many Democrats aren't even taking liberal enough public stances and complaining about voters for not showing up in mid-terms, perhaps Barney Frank's time would be better spent helping Democrats come up with a message that resonates with voters beyond "Don't let a Republican take the White House." When the boogeyman is your main argument for why people should vote for you, you have only yourself to blame for lack of a message in mid-term years.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

The idea that the modern financial system is just nice people lending to other nice people to do some things is really rather quaint.

 

[Armaros]

Instead of making excuses for not producing results in response to liberal frustration that many Democrats aren't even taking liberal enough public stances and complaining about voters for not showing up in mid-terms, perhaps Barney Frank's time would be better spent helping Democrats come up with a message that resonates with voters beyond "Don't let a Republican take the White House." When the boogeyman is your main argument for why people should vote for you, you have only yourself to blame for lack of a message in mid-term years.

As opposed to Bernie's 25 years of "my way or you are evil and corrupt highway'?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

He's disappeared ever since he said that.

 

[Hellwarden]

The idea that the modern financial system is just nice people lending to other nice people to do some things is really rather quaint.

Frank is a pretty cool guy most of the time, but he comes off really out of touch here.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I'm surprised slate didn't fuck marry kill with him using Trump, Cruz and sanders

 

[linsivvi]

Frank is a pretty cool guy most of the time, but he comes off really out of touch here.

He's on the board of a large bank. What do you expect?

 

[TyrantII]

Instead of making excuses for not producing results in response to liberal frustration that many Democrats aren't even taking liberal enough public stances and complaining about voters for not showing up in mid-terms, perhaps Barney Frank's time would be better spent helping Democrats come up with a message that resonates with voters beyond "Don't let a Republican take the White House." When the boogeyman is your main argument for why people should vote for you, you have only yourself to blame for lack of a message in mid-term years.

Obama and Congresses passed the largest liberal expansion of the social safety net since FDR, and no one turned up in 2010.

Voters acted like it was Mission Acomplished. Others said it didn't go far enough and threw a hissy fit, even as it took extraordinary measures to pass the do-nothing congress.

Message is part of the issue; but liberal infighting, lack of organising, and issues with focusing are huge problem.

Obama and Barney are right here, they can't do it alone. Taking your ball home in a zero sum game like politics means you lose. You get nothing. You don't get change.

 

[davepoobond]

He's on the board of a large bank. What do you expect?

at least its the "Best Bank in America" as named by Forbes. does that not count for anything?

http://investor.signatureny.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=889664

also, i never heard of them until right now.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I'm surprised slate didn't fuck marry kill with him using Trump, Cruz and sanders

this is slate, not salon

 

[titiklabingapat]

Frank makes a lot of good points but I also think people are right to point out that Frank himself is not exactly without some glaring faults.

'Don't make perfect be the enemy of good.'

This purity shit needs to stop.

 

[Barzul]

Dude went in on Scalia holy shit

 

[JesseEwiak]

Instead of making excuses for not producing results in response to liberal frustration that many Democrats aren't even taking liberal enough public stances and complaining about voters for not showing up in mid-terms, perhaps Barney Frank's time would be better spent helping Democrats come up with a message that resonates with voters beyond "Don't let a Republican take the White House." When the boogeyman is your main argument for why people should vote for you, you have only yourself to blame for lack of a message in mid-term years.

Yes, we'd have supermajorities in Congress if everybody just ran more liberal! Screw it, run on single payer in Missouri and Nebraska! Run on public funding of abortions in Texas! Run on a $15 minimum wage in Kansas!

Get out of your bubble.

Here's the truth of the matter - Obama and Congress achieved more liberal legislation from 2009 to 2011 than any President since LBJ and since he didn't fix every problem, that wasn't enough for people.

The caucus is a dnc state decision. Blame the DNC for not enforcing a better system. Also don't talk about democratic political operations and then not even mention the Super Delegate system.

Without Super Delegates, you open yourself to a Trump taking over your party. Ask the GOP if they'd like some super delegates right now.

 

[loki 16]

Without Super Delegates, you open yourself to a Trump taking over your party. Ask the GOP if they'd like some super delegates right now.

Wow. Are you actually making a case for super delegates? Super delegates are the most undemocratic thing in American elections.

 

[soleil]

Yes, we'd have supermajorities in Congress if everybody just ran more liberal! Screw it, run on single payer in Missouri and Nebraska! Run on public funding of abortions in Texas! Run on a $15 minimum wage in Kansas!

Get out of your bubble.

Here's the truth of the matter - Obama and Congress achieved more liberal legislation from 2009 to 2011 than any President since LBJ and since he didn't fix every problem, that wasn't enough for people.



Without Super Delegates, you open yourself to a Trump taking over your party. Ask the GOP if they'd like some super delegates right now.

I'm not saying we'd have supermajorities. Get out of your OWN bubble. I'm saying we'd have more excitement from liberal voters that would translate into mid-term voting so Democrats don't get destroyed so badly in mid-term years. Not a hard concept that me saying we'd do better is not the same as me saying we'd have supermajorities. But I'll just guess that nuance isn't your strong suit.

And the "liberal" legislation cemented for-profit insurance companies even deeper into our health care industry. Learn how to see things beyond a one-dimensional scale... if you can.

Bottom line is that making excuses not to push liberal legislation (like single payor, not mandating more customers into the hands of for-profit companies) is what turns liberal voters away. Stop making excuses.

 

[A Link to the Past]

So it seems like you’re saying Bernie’s voters have a slightly unrealistic sense about the political process. And that this is driven—

I didn’t say slightly.

OK.

That was fucking brutal lol.

 

[royalan]

Wow. Are you actually making a case for super delegates? Super delegates are the most undemocratic thing in American elections.

Thank God this is a party picking its nominee and not the American presidential election, then.

 

[Kyosaiga]

Thank God this is a party picking its nominee and not the American presidential election, then.

I still find it amazing how people don't realize that the RNc and DNC are private organizations.

A private organization that just happens to run the country

 

[JesseEwiak]

I'm not saying we'd have supermajorities. Get out of your OWN bubble. I'm saying we'd have more excitement from liberal voters that would translate into mid-term voting so Democrats don't get destroyed so badly in mid-term years. Not a hard concept me saying we'd do better is not the same as me saying we'd have supermajorities. But I'll just guess that nuance isn't your strong suit.

And the "liberal" legislation cemented for-profit insurance companies even deeper into our health care industry. Learn how to see things beyond a one-dimensional scale... if you can.

Bottom line is that making excuses not to push liberal legislation (like single payor, not mandating more customers into the hands of for-profit companies) is what turns liberal voters away. Stop making excuses.

If all those liberals disappointed with how much of a sellout Obama was by only moving the most liberal legislation in a generation through Congress, explain to me how you're going to get Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, or any of the 59th or 60th vote in the Senate to vote for single payer, a $2 trillion dollar stimulus, or anything else on the liberal wishlist.

Obama was never going to turn us into Sweden overnight. Millions of people have access to health care that didn't have it in 2008 and franky the fact so many purity ponies try to downplay that achievement because it wasn't the only policy proposal about health care they've ever heard of pisses me off.

Wow. Are you actually making a case for super delegates? Super delegates are the most undemocratic thing in American elections.

If they wanted too, the Democratic Party could meet in a backroom of the Senate and say, "OK, Hillary's our candidate," because they's what most parliamentary parties do and it's how American candidates were selected until the 1970's.

Frankly, I find no problem with an organization rewarding important members of that organization with an outsized voice about the future of that organization. The actual most undemocratic part of American elections is the part where land has votes in the form of the Senate.

 

[kirblar]

Wow. Are you actually making a case for super delegates? Super delegates are the most undemocratic thing in American elections.

And direct democracy is one of the worst things to ever happen in American politics.

SuperDelegates are there as a firewall in case of Emergency. Trump would certainly qualify as one, and the GOP is wishing they had them right now.

These complaints aren't actually about democracy, they're complaints about Sanders losing.

 

[Meowster]

Wow. Are you actually making a case for super delegates? Super delegates are the most undemocratic thing in American elections.

I am absolutely happy we have some kind of system of quality assurance.

 

[metalslimer]

How are super delegates the most undemocratic thing when we literally had a popular vote winner lose the presidential race 16 years ago

 

[excelsiorlef]

How are super delegates the most undemocratic thing when we literally had a popular vote winner lose the presidential race 16 years ago

Not to mention Caucuses are a huge joke

 

[teruterubozu]

Fuck you Barney, I vote every midterms.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Fuck you Barney, I vote every midterms.

Good. Doesn't mean that many many don't

 

[Kyosaiga]

How are super delegates the most undemocratic thing when we literally had a popular vote winner lose the presidential race 16 years ago

Trump pretty much took away any argument against super delegates.

 

[Macam]

'Don't make perfect be the enemy of good.'

This purity shit needs to stop.

So does the purity straw man. Saying someone has faults is not a purity contest.

And so it begins.

 

[NeoXChaos]

and to add: U.S senators used to be elected by the state legislatures

 

[ivysaur12]

The non-direct election of our highest executive is actually the most non-democratic aspect of presidential elections.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

So does the purity straw man. Saying someone has faults is not a purity contest.

And so it begins.

Your favorite politician has done at least one thing that you disagreed or something you wouldn't defend. It's kind of the nature of the beast.

 

[damisa]

He's on the board of a large bank. What do you expect?

I really wish Bernie fans would stop with posts like this. Working for a financial company does not make you evil or corrupt. Barnie Frank is 10x more qualified to speak about financial regulations then someone like Bernie who's never worked in finance and clearly doesn't even know how financial markets function

 

[Odrion]

wait I thought gerrymandering was the reason not low voter turnout

which one is it

is it whatever one fits the current narrative more?

 

[excelsiorlef]

wait I thought gerrymandering was the reason not low voter turnout

which one is it

Tag team

 

[TyrantII]

That was fucking brutal lol.

Reminds me of this

https://youtu.be/nYlZiWK2Iy8

She was either Green Rainbow or an La Rouche batshit. Can't remember which.

 

[Odrion]

Tag team

so how many democratic voters needed to vote to win in the gerrymandered territories in 2010 and 2014?

 

[TyrantII]

Bottom line is that making excuses not to push liberal legislation (like single payor, not mandating more customers into the hands of for-profit companies) is what turns liberal voters away. Stop making excuses.

So Democrats should be more like the teaparty caucus and pass the liberal version of 150 resolutions to repeal Obamacare?

Do Something! Is rarely good politics or policy.

If you want more liberal legislation passed, you need to provide support to actually pass more legislation. Chicken and egg problem for sure, but History shows that if you want something done in Washington you have to keep sending more and more representatives untill you get it.

You don't take you ball and go home. You do, you lose.

 

[excelsiorlef]

so how many democratic voters needed to vote to win in the gerrymandered territories in 2010 and 2014?

No idea. I'm just saying both played a role.

 

[AlphaDump]

so how many democratic voters needed to vote to win in the gerrymandered territories in 2010 and 2014?

A lot. Gerrymandering helped give the tea party life. It was a significant victory.

 

[Alrus]

Wow. Are you actually making a case for super delegates? Super delegates are the most undemocratic thing in American elections.

When fucking caucuses are a thing? No way. You don't see many people around here complaining about them though, I wonder why...

Also when in recent history have super delegates overturned a candidate that had a majority of pledged ones?

 

[linsivvi]

I really wish Bernie fans would stop with posts like this.

Bernie fans? LOL. Par for the course I guess. As if it logically suddenly made a criticism invalid.

I really wish Hillary fans would stop with posts like this. /shrug

Working for a financial company does not make you evil or corrupt.

No, working for a financial company does not make you evil or corrupt.

Ever heard of conflict of interest? He's now working for a bank and is outspoken against financial regulations. Everything he said on the subject has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Barnie Frank is 10x more qualified to speak about financial regulations then someone like Bernie who's never worked in finance and clearly doesn't even know how financial markets function

Appeal to authority much?

He said Elizabeth Warren is wrong too. Oh that's right, she's never worked on in the finance industry too. Let's just ask Goldman Sachs for advice on financial regulations since Barney Frank is still a new comer to the industry.

Clearly the Goldman Sachs CEO is 100x more qualified to speak about financial regulations than Barney Frank. Using your logic.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Also when in recent history have super delegates overturned a candidate that had a majority of pledged ones?

Superdelegates were first created in advance of the 1984 presidential election. They have never given the nomination to a candidate who did not have a majority of the pledged delegates.

 

[googleplex]

Barney Frank is like a shitty alternate version of Bernie Sanders.



And was instrumental in causing the financial crash.

EDIT - A little hyperbole. But he did contribute to it.

.....

This has to be a joke post.

Sanders supporters get more and more frightening by the day.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

The non-direct election of our highest executive is actually the most non-democratic aspect of presidential elections.

Seeing as how the Constitution never actually gives American citizens the right to any kind of popular vote for the President, we're lucky to have what we have, shitty as it may be.

 

[BigJonsson]

Thank God this is a party picking its nominee and not the American presidential election, then.

Maybe this election cycle will lead to the emergence of new viable parties

 

[ivysaur12]

Maybe this election cycle will lead to the emergence of new viable parties

It will not.

 

[Alrus]

Superdelegates were first created in advance of the 1984 presidential election. They have never given the nomination to a candidate who did not have a majority of the pledged delegates.

That was kind of a rhetorical question but thanks

Now if people could stop this bullshit about overturning the "will of the voters"(ignoring the fact that the candidate they support so far is leading the popular vote by millions), it'd be nice.