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[Mael]

Do the Black Panthers count as left?

I'm not sure where we're at anymore.

That's a good point.
I'm not from the US so I can't say I know everything about it (nor have I ever claimed as such).
I guess it's a normal conclusion to reach for the BP considering how they have reason to mistrust local governments.
I still don't see how the left has always been lax on gun control.

 

[diaspora]

I like Barney Frank, but he's directly involved with Hillary's campaign, so take his opinions with a grain of salt.

He's talked about this since the 90s.

 

[Drek]

Well, he's been saying this sort of thing about Bernie since literally the 1990's. This isn't something new from him, Barney Frank literally doesn't like Bernie Sanders.

More accurately stated Barney Frank sees Bernie Sanders for the ideologue he is and has little tolerance for ideologues.

 

[MisterShine]

That's a good point.
I'm not from the US so I can't say I know everything about it (nor have I ever claimed as such).
I guess it's a normal conclusion to reach for the BP considering how they have reason to mistrust local governments.

Which is actually the point of Marx's statement,who the Black Panthers were influenced by, they were officially a socialist group.

They understood that the government is rarely your friend, and that ultimately arming the populace is the only way to keep them properly checked. Of course, the FBI would use this to manipulate their actions and public perception to make them seem like the counterparts of the KKK.

I still don't see how the left has always been lax on gun control.

In this regard you're definitely right. At least in modern times (lets say 1980 onward) large portions of the left in America have generally been pro-gun control, you're correct. But to say or suggest, which I'm not sure that you were, that there isn't a history of armament in leftist ideologies is not correct.

 

[Mael]

Which is actually the point of Marx's statement,who the Black Panthers were influenced by, they were officially a socialist group.

They understood that the government is rarely your friend, and that ultimately arming the populace is the only way to keep them properly checked. Of course, the FBI would use this to manipulate their actions and public perception to make them seem like the counterparts of the KKK.

No argument there.
I'd argue that the federal government is probably the one side of the government you have the bigger chance of trusting in the US.
All the others, State, local, whatever, they're out to fuck you and get you and hard

In this regard you're definitely right. At least in modern times (lets say 1980 onward) large portions of the left in America have generally been pro-gun control, you're correct. But to say or suggest, which I'm not sure that you were, that there isn't a history of armament in leftist ideologies is not correct.

I'd argue that the left outside of the US absolutely does not have a history of armament in their ideologies.

 

[Arkeband]

lol literally in back to back sentences you bemoaned the "tea party" comparison and then went straight into throwing-under-ideological-purity-bus mode

the comparison isn't valid because Bernie's support isn't even ideologically driven, it's cult-of-personality driven. the tea party was successful in its political goals (at the small price of potentially destroying the republican party); Bernie and his supporters won't even get that.

The Dems have been doing a pretty good job of destroying themselves before Bernie even became an obstacle.

 

[ibyea]

That's such a stupid oversimplification of what modern financial system does that I can't believe people here are drinking it up without question.

And that McCarthyism comparison is just plain bad.

 

[Mael]

The Dems have been doing a pretty good job of destroying themselves before Bernie even became an obstacle.

You could say this about pretty much any and all political party in the world.
So far I haven't seen a party where that wasn't the case.
That's the nature of the game I guess.
The Dems may combust on its own and I'm pretty sure Sanders is pretty much a non factor, he represent nothing and looking at this election isn't even a threat to anyone but the candidate he's running against.
He's the biggest non factor for the local election this side of Jeb bush.

 

[linsivvi]

You could say this about pretty much any and all political party in the world.
So far I haven't seen a party where that wasn't the case.
That's the nature of the game I guess.

This is a pretty accurate observation. The Democrats are saying this, the Republicans are saying this. All the other countries I've lived in have variations of the same thing. I guess it's just human nature.

 

[Armaros]

That's such a stupid oversimplification of what modern financial system does that I can't believe people here are drinking it up without question.

And that McCarthyism comparison is just plain bad.

And yet Bernie sanders has his plateform about the banks that isn't simplistic? Really?

When Bernie sanders has something beyond break up the banks and glass/steegal that argument will have some leg up.

You want someone that talks about the complexities of the financial system? Hillary is the only one of the two to directly address Shadow Banking.

 

[kirblar]

One of the reporters noted earlier in the campaign a ton Sander's early staffers having been OWS vets. It's definitely the same audience, probably achieving about the same results.

 

[Knoxcore]

Well, he's been saying this sort of thing about Bernie since literally the 1990's. This isn't something new from him, Barney Frank literally doesn't like Bernie Sanders.

I agree with his sentiments on Bernie and I suspect a lot of Congressmen do as well. Bernie, to me, comes off as someone who preaches to others but never comes up with a game plan or make the necessary deals and relationships to enact his plans. He has a holier than thou mentality that I don't think goes over well with a lot of people. Clinton's surrogates should emphasize this.