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Capcom posts their localization philosophy and it's as bad as you expect
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
squarealex
Member
Body Type A
Body Type B
Body Type B
Deft Beck
Member
Capcom is one of the most Americanized Japanese game companies, so this isn't surprising. Major Japanese companies want to expand and reach global audiences, and their consultants say that this is the best way to attract new players and investors. Whether or not this is true is hard to say. If you don't like it, then don't buy their games.
I think people spend a lot of time and effort complaining about this when the real solution is to let it bleed out of the system. If it really affects sales negatively, then the problem will fix itself.
Of course, the hardest option is to learn Japanese. But even that isn't a guarantee you are getting a "pure" experience if this problem exists at the root.
In the end, your time here is short. Play something else. There are hundreds of thousands of games out there.
I think people spend a lot of time and effort complaining about this when the real solution is to let it bleed out of the system. If it really affects sales negatively, then the problem will fix itself.
Of course, the hardest option is to learn Japanese. But even that isn't a guarantee you are getting a "pure" experience if this problem exists at the root.
In the end, your time here is short. Play something else. There are hundreds of thousands of games out there.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
The lingo is always the same, so expect exactly the results you’re expecting.
Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
They/thems in Resident Evil.
Esppiral
Member
From a point of view of an english speaking person maybe, but many languages are gender based and localizations needs to have changes for things to make sense...
Insane Metal
Member
Latinx, please.
Kabelly
Member
So sorry, chica.
ByWatterson
Member
Seneca tells us not to suffer from imagined harms.
Regarding Capcom, this thread is a bit premature.
Regarding Capcom, this thread is a bit premature.
squarealex
Member
iel, please.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I agree with the second half.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Years ago if something might be found offensive, they just changed it for that particular market.
Make the game you want to make, with the characters you want. If someone gets offended then oh well, it’s not for them. Let the masses decide, not this minority of soft crybabies who get offended over everything.
Make the game you want to make, with the characters you want. If someone gets offended then oh well, it’s not for them. Let the masses decide, not this minority of soft crybabies who get offended over everything.
poodaddy
Member
Fart Knight
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Tomeru
Member
This kind of localization makes you one person in the west and turns you into a different person in the east (and vice versa). Unless you absolutely don't care - no one is overreacting.
sigmaZ
Member
Yeah. As someone fluent in Japanese, I'm not against localization in general, but the one scene I watched on Youtube from Rebirth (the one with Cloud and Aerith/Aeris in Gongaga gave off a really different vibe because of the slang that Cloud used.
Words like, "lame, loser, etc." That's totally against the character of Cloud in the Japanese version of Rebirth. That said, as someone who translates for a living I know how tough it can be and in-house translators have to follow certain guidelines and directions they might necessarily agree with.
MrRenegade
Report me if I continue to troll
Never had any problems with Capcom games and their translations. What's the fuss about?
radewagon
Member
I dunno, sometimes I very much feel this statement when looking at gaf comments. Polarization is always problematic. Put down your pitchforks. Being the exact opposite of what you hate shouldn't be the goal. Localization, in general, is fine. Get over it.
Tomeru
Member
It still sucks donkey ass. And breaks characters.
Oddvintagechap
Member
They been teaching this in technical writing in colleges since it’s inception. In business youre supposed to be aware how you address people of different cultures in professional emails.
Why many in this forum pretend like they are all 12 years old? I know youre all 30+.
I'd beg to differ about that last part, because at the end of the day, localization (or, quite frankly, translation as a whole) is more of an art rather than a science.
I've read some examples of "bad localization" that are definitely questionable, but others are indeed more of a matter of opinion instead of a clear-cut case.
In a few words, the main goal of localization is to convey the same or at least a similar, functionally equivalent experience to players who are not Japanese and thus cannot be presumed to be already fully immersed in the relevant cultural and linguistic context. Sometimes that's relatively easy to accomplish, especially at this point in the history of international media exports, but not always.
How do you do that? You will need to make artistic and linguistic choices, sooner or later, and not every translation or localization team will share the same interpretations about a particular character, scene or game to begin with, so that will inevitably influence what was the best possible option. At times they can consult with the Japanese developers for clarification and guidance, but that is not a perfect guarantee. Hell, even developers don't always agree with their own fans about how to interpret their own games! It's not like there is only one possible "correct" way of understanding a given character, scene or game.
Furthermore, there is the additional complication that once you start making choices early on, you need to be consistent with them, for better or for worse, or else it'll break immersion.
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StereoVsn
Member
The issue is when companies significantly change the characters essentially through giving them dialogues that goes against original intent.
Cloud example from above is a small illustration as in general overall character doesn’t change but there are of unnecessary shit inserted.
For old school and non political examples of this you can looney Vic Ireland’s Working Design localization where with good intent dialogue and characters were kind of butchered.
BaldingAshCrimson
Member
I really hate that phrase, "Preserving the vibe" (It's in the "The Importance of Context" section)
I don't want the "vibe" to be preserved. I want the artists vision to be preserved.
I want EXACTLY what he or she wrote, to be preserved. What they intended. What they wanted it to be.
I don't want Capcom's localization team interpretation or modification of what they wrote, to make it more comfy for certain people or cultures.
Even if the artists made the game for a Japanese audience (RGG and Atlus, for example), that shit is interesting. It's interesting to get a peek of a culture that isn't yours. A sense of humor that isn't yours.
Shin Megami Tensei's interpretations of morality and spirituality is very particular to Japan. And again, taking a peek at that, and experiencing that, is special and means something.
People can call me a "doomer" or "triggered" all they want.
This is deeply disgusting. It's threatening art.
Can I remember you guys of when Final Fantasy 16's reference/mention to sexual abuse of a main character was removed by localization, because it was "offensive"?
Doesn't it bother anyone that the feelings the writer intended you to have towards the character (The victim of it), and the villain (the person who did the deed), were completely thrown to the side?
Guess what, YES, it is offensive. Sexual abuse SHOULD offend you.
And that's the point. It's not glorifying sexual abuse. Quite the fucking contrary.
It is there to make you feel things. Even relate to the fucking character. If you are a man or woman that was a victim of sexual abuse, that mention will make you uncomfortable, but it will also make you deeply relate with the character that went through it.
That has value.
Again, fuck the "vibe" being preserved. I want the pure artists vision preserved.
I don't want the "vibe" to be preserved. I want the artists vision to be preserved.
I want EXACTLY what he or she wrote, to be preserved. What they intended. What they wanted it to be.
I don't want Capcom's localization team interpretation or modification of what they wrote, to make it more comfy for certain people or cultures.
Even if the artists made the game for a Japanese audience (RGG and Atlus, for example), that shit is interesting. It's interesting to get a peek of a culture that isn't yours. A sense of humor that isn't yours.
Shin Megami Tensei's interpretations of morality and spirituality is very particular to Japan. And again, taking a peek at that, and experiencing that, is special and means something.
People can call me a "doomer" or "triggered" all they want.
This is deeply disgusting. It's threatening art.
Can I remember you guys of when Final Fantasy 16's reference/mention to sexual abuse of a main character was removed by localization, because it was "offensive"?
Doesn't it bother anyone that the feelings the writer intended you to have towards the character (The victim of it), and the villain (the person who did the deed), were completely thrown to the side?
Guess what, YES, it is offensive. Sexual abuse SHOULD offend you.
And that's the point. It's not glorifying sexual abuse. Quite the fucking contrary.
It is there to make you feel things. Even relate to the fucking character. If you are a man or woman that was a victim of sexual abuse, that mention will make you uncomfortable, but it will also make you deeply relate with the character that went through it.
That has value.
Again, fuck the "vibe" being preserved. I want the pure artists vision preserved.
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Angry_Megalodon
Member
I doubt they teach people to write local slang when the original work didn't use any.
Which has nothing to do with the point of fiction localization.
Needing characters / cultural references akin to us to enjoy fiction is what I'd expect from a 12-year-old or an extremely immature person. Some of us are neither kids nor narcissistic manbabies, so we don't need companies to vandalize their original works for our sake, thank you.
makaveli60
Member
T
But seriously, if anyone doesn’t get the problem with this just read this whole post and it will be clear. 100 % agreed
This, thread can be closed.
But seriously, if anyone doesn’t get the problem with this just read this whole post and it will be clear. 100 % agreed
Killer8
Member
An artist's vision is not a corporate email.
Topher
Gold Member
Not so sure when they post that bullet with a rainbow flag emoji. If this is not meant to come across as catering to "woke" cultural ideals then not sure what the point is.
Astral Dog
Member
It sounds silly but so far i don't notice these innovative and amazing localization efforts we will see if it becomes annoying
Tomeru
Member
What do you call it when different translations and localization lead to a fundamentdlly different characters?
Becsuse in the case of ff7r, it's pretty glaring.
Belthazar
Member
People here are very scared and offended by a few words, so they whine about it basically whenever they read it somewhere.
Topher
Gold Member
Nah....that's a bad take on the discussion. People don't want translators changing text/dialogue to fit woke agendas.
You seem more offended by this discussion than most, frankly.
Belthazar
Member
Well, there it goes. You people sound like parrots sometimes.
Spirit Icana
Member
FF7 Remake and Rebirth were the first games I thought about when I read the OP.
There are a lot of swearing in that game where in no way, shape, or form -- be it through context, character personality, or the direct Japanese words being used, can certain dialogue in both these games be interpreted the way they were. It's an outright creative change, adopting the philosophy above, where the localizer thinks they're adapting the character to their imagined audience whom they think their changes will help resonate better with.
That said, localization is an art, and it is hard work. Languages are different, and changes have to be made for different audiences to understand what is being communicated. You need good talent for this line of work, and sometimes the guys and gals in charge are not the best bunch to be tackling certain projects.
I tend to enjoy the work of Alexander O. Smith, localization editor for games such as Final Fantasy X, FF XII, and yes, the first Phoenix Wright for Capcom --which made massive changes to the source material, but cleverly captured the wit, humor, and intense drama of the original Japanese work (or even surpass it). I'll leave his wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_O._Smith
There are a lot of swearing in that game where in no way, shape, or form -- be it through context, character personality, or the direct Japanese words being used, can certain dialogue in both these games be interpreted the way they were. It's an outright creative change, adopting the philosophy above, where the localizer thinks they're adapting the character to their imagined audience whom they think their changes will help resonate better with.
That said, localization is an art, and it is hard work. Languages are different, and changes have to be made for different audiences to understand what is being communicated. You need good talent for this line of work, and sometimes the guys and gals in charge are not the best bunch to be tackling certain projects.
I tend to enjoy the work of Alexander O. Smith, localization editor for games such as Final Fantasy X, FF XII, and yes, the first Phoenix Wright for Capcom --which made massive changes to the source material, but cleverly captured the wit, humor, and intense drama of the original Japanese work (or even surpass it). I'll leave his wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_O._Smith
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killatopak
Member
We’re gonna get onigiri donuts aren’t we?
Topher
Gold Member
If you want to pretend it isn't about that then that is up to you. I'm not going to shy away from that word because you think it is the boogie man.
lol....ironic really.
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Depends, I don't necessarily think the use of localized slang in an English translation makes Cloud a "fundamentally different" character.
It may change perceptions and preconceived notions about politeness and formality perhaps, which is a modest part of the characterization, but there's a huge can of worms about how to approach this specific subject when it comes to Japanese translation theory and practice.
While there are certainly explicit insults and curse words in Japanese that you can identify and translate rather directly, that's not the only way in which an ostensibly Japanese character can express themselves in a way that's impolite, rough or rude. This can also be done in a purely implicit or indirect, stylistic manner and apparently that's present in Cloud's Japanese speech.
Therefore, introducing slang to make this more explicit in English given the character's background could be a defensible choice in that case. Of course, you can also do that in other ways, but it's not an irrational option.
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BlackTron
Member
Is that why Sonic is the way he is? Having been designed for the American market and come out here first?
EDMIX
Member
This 1000%
if this is really such a big deal, clearly we'll see it effect sales
I just don't know how many gamers really give a shit about some of the stuff people cry about on here.
This hard for them to accept lol