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Capitalism - Yay or Nay?

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Capitalism isn't something that a bunch of people reunited and said "now lets make capitalism!", it's just a consequence of people being allowed by the state to trade something they own for another. Money is just an abstraction to to make these transactions easier. If you want to kill capitalism you'll have to kill people's freedom and take away their right for private property.
You do not seen to understand what capitalism is, as you seem to equate trade and money with capitalism. This isnt true, as both have existed way longer than capitalism. Or you have to say that the economy of ancient Mesopotamia or of the Greeks and Romans was capitalism, as they had money and trade. But of course its ridiculous to claim it was a capitalistic society.

You should also really look up the difference between personal and private property, as there is a fundamental difference between both which a lot of people miss. Which is why you think that without capitalism you cannot trade your stuff.
 
Weath inequality is about as bad in Sweden as it is in the US, income inequality is better in Sweden though. The top 1% of Sweden is mostly dynastic wealth being passed through generations, in the US it's mostly self starters in the tech or extraction industries. European countries are also worse for migrants than the US when it comes to income mobility. It's a complicated picture, it's not as simple as the Nordic countries being some utopia.

Income equality should be the more important measure for most people though, shouldn't it? The super rich will always be super rich while most people never will, so wealth inequality will remain, but your income is what decides your day-to-day quality of life. But of course it's not all rosy. We have our issues. Overall, though, I think our model works out better for the average person than the US one.
 
I'm not an economist so my opinion is limited. That said, I have the impression that capitalism is fair (limitedly) for developed countries only. In the vast majority of the world, this system is creating an extremely tailed distribution of wealth. This is evidenced by the fact that Richest 1% own more than half of the World's wealth. This to me sounds extremely unfair. The work hard to earn more argument only applies to countries in which this is fair and true to all individuals. In most countries, people work as hard (or even more) and get shit in return. Capitalism furnishes this system.

And I agree with the post above me.
 
Capitalism is great in three situations.

1. A budding economy on a frontier that lacks the necessary infrastructure for regulation.

2. In an established economy but whose intelligencia and leaders lack the knowledge and expertise to effectively run a regulated economy.

3. Certain micro-economies within an effectively regulated macro-economy.

The third one is a mixed economy. While water, energy, healthcare and education maybe heavily regulated within a given society, other areas like luxuries and new technology are better off being unregulated. Luxuries, as they are not necessities would be a waste of public resources. New technology, as its nature is nascent must be given time to be studied before effective regulation can be ascertained.

As an American, we've moved beyond 1 and 2. I want a mixed economy as in 3. We have the people who can effectively run a regulated economy that better ensures access to healthcare, education, food and utilities. We have moral obligation to do so.
 
Yay, but with regulations. I definitely wouldn't want what Europe has right now but I do think it's important to have rules to keep things from getting out of hand.
 
Income equality should be the more important measure for most people though, shouldn't it? The super rich will always be super rich while most people never will, so wealth inequality will remain, but your income is what decides your day-to-day quality of life. But of course it's not all rosy. We have our issues. Overall, though, I think our model works out better for the average person than the US one.

I say economic mobility is more important than equality. I am OK with having super rich as long as everyone has an equal shot of getting there. Instead in the US you income is largely related to parents income. The US is one of the least economically mobile western countries.
 
Capitalism is awesome in theory. The concept of companies competeting against each other to provide get best products and services at the lowest cost to the consumer is great. If capitalism worked, everyone in society would benefit.

Unfortunately, humans are too fucking greedy for capitalism to function properly. Since corporations own politicians, we're left with crony capitalism that only benefits the controlling class.

The free market doesn't work when oligopolies are allowed to gouge consumers. The free market doesn't make sense when tax payers are forced to subsidize corporations. When corporations treat their employees like shit in the name of profit, tax payers are forced to pick up the tab. Tax payers should't be paying for food stamps for an employee when the employer is making billions in profit.

In order for capitalism to make sense for society as a whole, corporate welfare needs to end. Companies that are "too big to fail" are too big to exist. In the absense of competition, capitalism inevitably leads to high prices, low wages, and dangerous levels of income inequality.
 
It's pulled more people out of poverty than any other system that's ever been tried.

Which version?

FDRs capitalism with a slight sprinkling of socialism, and a mandate to be the balance against concentration of wealth and power had created the largest middle class the world had seen.

Now a days, wealth disparity has exceeded that of the 1880-1920s. Capitalism is eating itself, and in many industires there's such a concentration of power that the few corporations running the show are "too big to fail". Government has renegaded on its job of being a check and balance against dangerous consolidation.
 
I like Capitalism but I really don't like things like people going homeless or hungry. I also don't like the damage consumerism has done to the environment. I wish people were more open-minded to trying to new things regardless of ideology and keeping those ideas that work. So Yay.
 
BTW, I don't see how wealth inequality is a problem. Poverity, in other hand, needs certainly to be addressed.

Technically correct and I heard an Australian radio show discuss this with a philosopher whose name I regret forgetting.

It's not so much about inequality so much of it as being about everyone having enough.

Of course in this world so many people have a lot precisely based on ensuring a lot have less than enough so the fairness does not yet exist.
 
Yay, absolutely. But with control, of course. What scandinavia has today is a pretty good version of capitalism for me. I believe it has to be adapted to work on bigger countries like the USA, but it could work.

I really do not believe that socialism or communism could work at all.
 
Nay, Capitalism is a broken system and the only solution is to replace it. Imperialism, the exploitation of the developing world, mass consumerism, concentration of capital, alienation, over production, the demand for infinite growth with finite resources, etc. These issues will only continue or even worsen with Capitalism.
 
Yay, absolutely. But with control, of course. What scandinavia has today is a pretty good version of capitalism for me. I believe it has to be adapted to work on bigger countries like the USA, but it could work.

I really do not believe that socialism or communism could work at all.

Why not?
 
Still no socialism in Europe.

Well, whatever you want to call it then.

More government control (without being overwhelming), more regulations in order to protect the people and guarantees of health and education for everyone, no matter their income.
 
I'm a diehard capitalist and volunteer for Bernie. Sanders actually has ideas that run counter to my beliefs but I feel most of the people at the top have indoctrinated the majority to believe every decision made should be made in the interest of the individual has actually encouraged too many anti-competitive ideals, slave wage labor, trickle down, unions = auto bad, people can constantly reinvent themselves and that the should to compete in a free trade economy.

There's a lot rubbish that's harming too many people and they don't appreciate how they are being harmed by not thinking of win win outcomes instead of zero sum outcomes. It's gotten so bad I feel Sanders is the only visible person who has the clout to make some tweaks to how our economy works.
 
I'm pretty passionately against capitalism and believe in abolishing private property, money, wage labor, and markets. I identify as an anarchist communist. Unfortunately, I think I'm in the extreme minority on that both on GAF and elsewhere.

And how do you enforce that? On paper it sounds fine, admirable even. But how do you make sure people abide by the rules? How do you make sure nobody claims land or property for themselves? Especially without a central government if you're doing the anarchist thing?

There is the inherent threat of violence within this ideology, either from the state or from the people, because it doesn't really work unless the rules apply to everyone. Outlawing private property means confiscating it from people that have it and of course not everyone will agree to do this.

Capitalism isn't great either, exploitation is inherent within that system. Many capitalist societies also have bloody histories but to my mind it's possible to pursue capitalism without lots of violence. Arguably, capitalism lines up better with human nature as well, in terms of providing incentives for labour.
 
In theory, 'Capitalism' comes in many forms. I'm not comfortable with Turbo & Finance Capitalism, or any system where shareholder returns outweigh even your own employee's interests.
 
The essentials of capitalism - consistent private property laws, mostly private ownership of the means of production, resources distributed via price mechanisms, comparative advantage, the specialization that all of this allows, etc. - constitute by far the most successful economic system we've ever had, and have done more for humanity (including the poorest of the poor) than every other economic system and every private charity in the history of the human race. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you snake oil, plain and simple.

Obviously, this is not an argument for unfettered capitalism in which the government plays no role. Really, that's a straw man: no one in the mainstream wants completely unfettered capitalism. All but the craziest anarcho-capitalists agree that you need government, at the very least, to enforce private property laws. And even staunch libertarians agree that some government intervention is warranted: most would defend having a state military, having a government-maintained infrastructure, and use of taxes and such to manage externalities. The claim that libertarians think they don't need government at all is spurious.

But it goes further than that, obviously. Most mainstream economists are neo-Keynesians who argue for all kinds of government intervention. They advocate monetary and fiscal policy to counter recessions, policies to help the poor (reasonable minimum wages, direct cash transfers like the Earned Income Tax Credit, negative income tax, etc.), government oversight of complex financial instruments like the ones that created the housing bubble, and more. None of this is outside the scope of capitalism. Even social democracy of the Bernie variety is essentially a form of capitalism.

But as for the claim that capitalism can be entirely replaced, that all private ownership of the means of production should be abolished, etc. Ha ha ha, no. Pie-in-the-sky utopianism stongly contradicted by the entire history of the 20th century.
 
Yea, but with balances against monopolies and the innate trickle up of money in a capitalist system.

Social democracy, in other words. Capitalism with a strong safety net.
 
Capitalism is pretty cool, especially with a nice big safety net and bit of redistribution to help people do more capitalism.
 
I'm pretty passionately against capitalism and believe in abolishing private property, money, wage labor, and markets. I identify as an anarchist communist. Unfortunately, I think I'm in the extreme minority on that both on GAF and elsewhere.

So basically you want to watch the world burn.

Safe to say your viewpoint will remain in the extreme minority category.
 
I'm confident people will find ways to abuse any system put in place by people. So with or without capitalism there will be those who exploit others.
 
Capitalism has created a lot of wealth worldwide (specially neoliberalism) but also lots of misery. Inequality is a major problem for it and probably will be its biggest crack since the unions revolutions.

Capitalism also requires a system of domination, economical colonialism and oppression. Big first world countries companies (and the standards of living they produce) are only currently sustained by explotation of third world countries, where they can pay shitty wages and promote slavery-ish working conditions.

I don't think we yet have a better option that can counter or that better satisfies the inherent desires of people, though. Tech will lead us there, hopefully.
 

History, and the fact that it would need to be fully collaborative to work. I do not believe that we have any capacity to be fully cooperate without any parts of the society trying to take advantage of something. And I also believe that, to create working socialist/communist society, you would need a type of government to enforce things, and that would lead to authoritarianism really fast.
 
And I also believe that, to create working socialist/communist society, you would need a type of government to enforce things, and that would lead to authoritarianism really fast.

Quoted for emphasis. This is worse than whatever inequality capitalism brings.
 
Mostly Yay. I think it works and shown that it is a better system than communism was. During The Cold War we were making more innovations than the USSR was. You can see it in the show The Americans. The Soviets were baffled about the computers we were using and creating stealth technology.

Capitalism allows us things like iphones and android phones. Nobody NEEDS a smartphone but it was created because it was going to make money. It does provide a better way of living in a ton of cases.

I dont think full blown communism would ever work as people would just not work as hard as they should to keep society moving. I do however think some small aspects of Socialism can work. Health care for all and a standard level of living for people who have a hard time getting into the system. Like if you were to get sick or injured, that could have serious consequences on your job. I am fine with people who are the most innovative or smart becoming successful. I am not as smart as many people I grew up with and just learned to accept that. I found out what Im good at and went with it.

It was interesting. I was watching the show Narcos on Netflix (great show btw) and in one episode the CIA agent said to the DEA agent "Narcos just want your money. The communists want your shit. I like owning shit". Yeah me too.
 
BTW, I don't see how wealth inequality is a problem. Poverity, in other hand, needs certainly to be addressed.

This is basically my thinking. Some people having more than others doesn't bother me so long as everybody has enough. If they don't, it's time to make adjustments.
 
Yay, of course that doesn't mean government regulation and laws dictating certain issues shouldn't exist and should probably be strengthened in some cases, in America's case they certainly could learn a decent amount from Europe. Besides any pure socialist and communist state has not successfully existed to my knowledge with those that claim to be so being little more than one-party state run dictatorships. Or even capitalist countries have some elements of the other systems with various government run programs and regulations, pure systems just don't exist.
 
Capitalism. I do believe we need laws and regulations because hey...people are assholes. It's what also breaks socialism... People are naturally assholes and will always seek their good. Socialism limits people to fight, and I also believe it limits the eagerness to create and invent new things, either functional or for fun. Also since the government is a supreme power and command everything it can lead to authoritarianism. Just my view, maybe it's wrong but I've given it some thought. At least I wouldn't work as intense towards projects if I knew I wouldn't benefit from it more than perhaps a name in a book. Since

So yeah, Capitalism allows me to be greedy and want more, it fills me in the materialistic sense but also gives myself a higher worth when I achieve things. I identify myself as a Democrat and believe there is some shit that needs to be fixed such as health care, education costs, and of course the whims of wall street (having experience in Goldman Sachs for some time taught me that investment bankers are the biggest assholes in the world and are completely disconnected from other people aside from their own bubble).
 
BTW, I don't see how wealth inequality is a problem. Poverity, in other hand, needs certainly to be addressed.

This is the hottest topic in economics right now. There is a lot of research suggesting causal a link between growing inequality and slowing rates of economic growth, so this would have a direct impact on the real economy. The correlation is still controversial, but there's a bunch of research papers by the OECD, IMF and independent researchers that you can look up.

It seems that wealth inequality is a side-effect of the factors that promote economic growth, so the question is how do you redistribute wealth (and to what extent) without killing growth, as growth is what raises people out of poverty.

One egregious consequence of wealth inequality is simply the fact that it pisses people off. This can lead to civil unrest and revolutions with further unpleasant consequences (see China and the Soviet Union).
 
I have always regarded capitalism as nuclear fission with money instead of atoms. It has a fantastic economic output, but must be very controlled or you get, well, what we've got now. Wealth gets ultra-concentrated with a few people and the effect is toxic to society. Massive amounts of wealth can just escape the system entirely through just one tax avoidance scheme. Unfortunately, there's way more than one thanks to the race to the bottom concept.
 
I have always regarded capitalism as nuclear fission with money instead of atoms. It has a fantastic economic output, but must be very controlled or you get, well, what we've got now.

This is a great analogy; I've never thought about it like that and it fits perfectly.



As many have mentioned already, unfettered capitalism is bound to fail. I've always thought about it as having a fatal flaw: innate human greed. It is a system that rewards greed and when not contested, we get the obvious outcome that we are experiencing today.

As with most things, compromise and balance is key.
 
I don't consider a market economy to be capitalism. I consider capitalism using capital to create wealth, ie. exclusive ownership of something exploited for profit. I consider a market economy one that functions via trade of goods and services. The difference being, a capitalist has reason to use government to maintain the value of their capital, where a market economy is simply the mechanism by which trade happens. Capitalism in that sense is immoral to me. Using the constraints of law to ensure building of wealth rather than letting a market dictate value is wrong. So nay to capitalism.
 
What it's being proposed often as "capitalism" is not actually capitalism, is an aberration based on "anarchic market" driving toward concentration of wealth, disappearing of competition thru the estabilishment of super-monopolies from the multi-billionaire corporations etc...

Capitalism is based on a "free" market but "free" market is not an "anarchic" market like freedom for us is not the ability to do whatever we want, but to act in a subset of rule that guarantee maximum freedom for each one of us without infringing the one of other's. In particular, i believe the most important part of capitalism that people often forget is the ability to actually bargain. To explain it better:

- there need to be equal bargaining power from contractor to worker, or at least measures to keep the bargaining power as equal as possible. In a situation where contractors have too much power (aka. of price of product is much greater than the price of work), wages go down, then demands go down, and the two things enter a reinforcing loop and the economy collapse. In this case, short term investment may go up because you can produce with great gains, but then all the increased investment fall on a ground of no buyers for them.
In a situation where workers have too much power (aka. the price of work is greater than the price of production), production goes down, prices deflate, which make not investing a good perspective, which in turn mean production goes down again, in a reinforcing loop and then the economy collapse again. In this case, keeping your money in the bank (liquid) seems a good thing, but then there's no investment, aka no more production (and unemployement galore) and then suddendly all the money lose value because there aren't many things to actually buy. This , as far as i know, is not a realistic scenario as long as at least some other country in the world has low producing costs (in our world: asia, with africa probably next on the list), but it's also why the decrease of china's growth is seen with so much apprension, because they're essentially part of our own economy right now.
To avoid both of these scenarios, the state enforce a series of rules, you may know some of those as contract regulations, minimal wage, welfare state etc... It is of my opinion that we should give away most of those contract regulations and give only one form of it: basic income. Said basic income can then be directly regulated like tax rates are now by central banks to be high enough to avoid contractors having too much power, but not too high to avoid deflation (this is a problem until post-industrial societies when robots remove the need for humans to work, at which point i think we get essentially infinite production at 0 cost, which require all the wealth to be distributed without anyone of us having an actual mean to bargain for it, which is extremely unlikely imho).

- absence of monopolies on goods.
Monopolies remove competition, which is the "selection" force of capitalism, eventually removing the possibility for buyers to bargain via selection. No bargaining power = no optimization of the offer = stagnation -> underoptimization, lower growth, and in the worst case, collapse.
Absence of monopolies means that yes, we have to break up societies that get said monopolies, and place restrictive measures in the first place to avoid said monopolies to come to exist (examples? tangentially tax rates on the value of societies with tangential values defined at an arbitrary amount of our like, 10 b. $ example)

- on the other hand Monopolies on basic necessities are considered good (water-healthcare etc...) because private interest on said necessities would go against the ability to bargain that it's so important in capitalism: the bargaining power would be absurdly skewed toward sellers since buyers can't avoid buying. Said monopolies however, must be under the control of the state, to represent the best the interest of the collectivity in said basic necessities. Privatizing remove bargaining in those cases and as such is seen as counter-productive.

- private societies should never be big enough to significantly influence the state. The state has the extremely important mission of keeping the economy afloat with the manipulation of investment and savings. If private corps get too big and push for deregulations, they may see increased short-terms gain but then the whole society lose significantly as demands collapse, including said private corps. This also come back on the tangential cap on the value of societies to avoid monopolies.

Capitalism without regulations can bring growth in cases where you start from essentially scratch, but tend to vastly underestimate the importance of demand (for the simple reason that who create offer don't create demand) and can't expand as much as regulated capitalism, nor promote the distribution of wealth which is essential as economic growth is basically dictated by the equivalence of investment/liquidity. The "free market" which we often hear about (and which is not free, but simply non-ruled), is based on the assumption that offer create demand, which is largely not true (see also supply-side economics as a similar fallacious line of thought, and see how :" studies have shown that tax cuts done in the US in the past several decades seldom recoup revenue losses and have minimal impact on GDP growth.", Laffer curve and all that jazz ).

The problem with debating words is exactly that, we debate things which can have different meaning for different people, but honestly the ones that often propose "free market deregulate etc..." are just dumbos who have no idea how capitalism actually work and still believe in century old ideas that a super complex system left to itself will bring itself to optimization every time, which is absolutely not true for many reasons. The success of largely unregulated capitalism in progressing the society of three hundreds years ago shouldn't be an argument-end-all that way to say that there's nothing better, especially when there are so many arguments and examples to the contrary.

Non-capitalism will however be an option the moment machines that work better than us in every field exist. Since at that point there's no limit on the offer, but only on the demand, the economy will depend only on how much wealth will be redistributed. There will be no actual "competition" nor there should be any more bargains, because we as humans will have actually nothing to bargain with for the economy, our brain and our work being as useful to the robot society as ants are for ours. Money will lose most of its value, if not all. Honestly, i think this is a field of economic that is criminally understudied, especially since it's predicted that we'll lose about 20% employement in the next ten years in the industrialized countries alone. Creating new jobs will be just a temporary solutions as machines advances far faster than our bioligical evolution.

my 2c
 
I'm all for Capitalism and free markets. I do support public education and healthcare though so long as private education and healthcare is allowed to exist. Beyond this, the government should only step in to correct market failures such as where where monilopies or cartels have formed. For example, internet service providers definatly seems to be non-competitive at this point and I wouldnt be surprised to find that they are illegally collaborating behind closes doors. This is a case where the government should intervene. Besides that though the government should remain hands off whenever possible.
 
History, and the fact that it would need to be fully collaborative to work. I do not believe that we have any capacity to be fully cooperate without any parts of the society trying to take advantage of something. And I also believe that, to create working socialist/communist society, you would need a type of government to enforce things, and that would lead to authoritarianism really fast.

The human nature/who will do the dirty jobs argument isn't a strong one in my opinion. Human nature is to survive and to avoid suffering. If people had to choose between getting a job done or live uncomfortably then I bet the vast majority would do the job. As for the other point, the workers would enforce things. I don't see why a figurehead would be required for workers to enforce societal laws. A good chunk of human history didn't have a government to enforce rules.

Quoted for emphasis. This is worse than whatever inequality capitalism brings.

Looking at the amount of people that die from hunger, live in complete poverty, wars created, and the damage that we do to the earth, I disagree. The real symptoms of capitalism aren't as bad as a "what if" deterrent of communism.

But as for the claim that capitalism can be entirely replaced, that all private ownership of the means of production should be abolished, etc. Ha ha ha, no. Pie-in-the-sky utopianism stongly contradicted by the entire history of the 20th century.

Communism doesn't work because most socialist countries that generally started their revolution in the 3rd world back in the 20th century ended up breaking up? Sounds like a complete simplification of the sociopolitical, economic, historical, external, internal, and an array of other factors.
 
Capitalism tempered by varying degrees of regulation seems to be the way to go right now. Kind of the way it has always been to be honest. We've never really had a free-for-all. Communism was a nice experiment unless you lived under it.

The human nature/who will do the dirty jobs argument isn't a strong one in my opinion. Human nature is to survive and to avoid suffering. If people had to choose between getting a job done or live uncomfortably then I bet the vast majority would do the job. As for the other point, the workers would enforce things. I don't see why a figurehead would be required for workers to enforce societal laws. A good chunk of human history didn't have a government to enforce rules.



Looking at the amount of people that die from hunger, live in complete poverty, and the damage that we do to the earth, I disagree. The real symptoms of capitalism aren't as bad as a "what if" deterrent of communism.

A "What-if" isn't necessary since we have quite a few recent examples of communist states. Communist states have been some of the most top-down, oppressive, and authoritarian regimes in recent history. Possibly in all history. Even more so than the Fascist governments. Now you can say that's not true communism or it's a different flavor but in practice that's how it has shaken out so far.
 
Capitalism is firstly based on growth.

There were merchant societies before capitalism, but the difference is that capitalism encourages profits to be to reinvested as capital, hence the name. You create bigger factories, hire more workers, create new products and services, make more profits, and repeat the cycle.

The motivation is greater growth. This was the reason for the first publicly traded companies and stock market exchanges. Stockholders could pool their money, mitigating overall risk, but also enabling returns if the enterprise was successful.

The issue with capitalism is that growth is the God of capitalism. It does not take into effect other negative effects like resource depletion.

The sole growth motive is also amoral. Not many know this, but it's a good to know given it's Black History Month, but many companies involved in the Atlantic Slave Trade were listed on stock exchanges at the time. Many had annual returns of 6 percent! That's great for any investment.

However, the Atlantic Slave Trade was morally bankrupt.

Capitalism is amazingly efficient at raising capital, but the worship of growth for growth's sake can lead to moral problems.

For the record, I'm pro capitalism with government checks in place.
 
100% anti capitalism. Why try and deal with the symptoms instead of the causes? All this regulation and reform nonsense is temporary. You're not changing who has power or solving the basic exploitative nature of capitalism.

I am a proud socialist, feminist, anti-racist, communist. I believe in the oppressed peoples of the world rising up against their common oppressor and building a better world.

And you can't have capitalism and socialism. They're inherently opposed - either the bourgeoisie owns the means of production or the proletariat does.
 
Capitalism can be historically progressive compared to other systems (feudalism, ancient imperialism, mercantilism, etc.) but it is not progressive enough to be the "final" economic system that we must chain ourselves to. It needs to be abolished and replaced with socialism.
 
The human nature/who will do the dirty jobs argument isn't a strong one in my opinion. Human nature is to survive and to avoid suffering. If people had to choose between getting a job done or live uncomfortably then I bet the vast majority would do the job. As for the other point, the workers would enforce things. I don't see why a figurehead would be required for workers to enforce societal laws. A good chunk of human history didn't have a government to enforce rules.
And how would the workers enforce things? How would we handle groups of workers enforcing their ideas? How would we keep it democratic? In all the socialist and communist societies we had figureheads dominating everything. And these figureheads always live by different rules than the rest of the population.

Looking at the amount of people that die from hunger, live in complete poverty, and the damage that we do to the earth, I disagree. The real symptoms of capitalism aren't as bad as a "what if" deterrent of communism.
I don't know, comparing to the amount of people that died from hunger and lived in complete poverty under socialist and communist regimes, I think we're doing ok. Sure, things needs to change, specially in the most poor countries, but we're improving.
 
Capitalism can be historically progressive compared to other systems (feudalism, ancient imperialism, mercantilism, etc.) but it is not progressive enough to be the "final" economic system that we must chain ourselves to. It needs to be abolished and replaced with socialism.

In order for socialism to ever gain ground the rich and poor dichotomy has to end. Btu that's not happening anytime soon.

Think about how we treat the poor.

--We don't want to live in their neighborhoods
--We don't want our children to marry them.
--We're fine with them having disgusting water.
--We don't care if they're gunned down in crime ridden neighborhood
--We don't care about their educations
--We lock them up en masse and making it harder for them reintregate into society.

Classicism is basically accepted in our society.

Until we handle that, socialism will never take hold.
 
Communism doesn't work because most socialist countries that generally started their revolution in the 3rd world back in the 20th century ended up breaking up? Sounds like a complete simplification of the sociopolitical, economic, historical, external, internal, and an array of other factors.

Communism doesn't work *because* it doesn't have the mechanisms of capitalism. But since people like empirics around here, I figured I would focus on the fact that, yeah, pretty much every single government that has eliminated private ownership of the means of production was a dismal economic failure. Sweeping conclusions are warranted when communism's real-world track record is that bad, and that consistently bad.
 
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