Vision is a synthetic being without a traditional human brain, so there's no reason she would be able to control his mind (since she obviously couldn't do the same thing to Ultron or his robot buddies).
Spider-Man and Black Panther in the midst of some kind of hallucinogenic freakout would be totally ineffective. They are on the really low end of the power scale. I feel like she could've easily disabled everyone on Stark's side except Vision.
Scarlet Witch having some level of "self-doubt" about her powers doesn't work as an excuse considering the level of destruction she was more than willing to wreak with her telekinesis and energy bolts.
I think you're forgetting the fact that Vision is combination of organic and inorganic parts. That's kind of the whole defining differences between him an Ultron and Wanda can most definitely read his mind he offered her the chance during his first appearance. And that's just the thing Wanda doesn't know how her mind control powers work on a case by case basis they could be incapacitated or they could go on a rampage like the Hulk did.
And did you really just say that Spider-Man is low on the power scale? Considering the guy caught Bucky's punch in his hand like it was nothing then proceeded to toss him aside would state otherwise.
Yeah I really liked Zemo. My expectations were depressed by people saying the villain sucked, but he was just fine. And the tension was shared between Zemos issues and the ideological disagreements between caps team and tony's team anyway.
Edit: Yeah Spiderman is clearly on the high scale of power. I'm not sure how that can be argued after watching this movie. He was strong as fucccck.
Probably covered a million times, but I liked that they gave Cap's speech to Spidey from the comics to Sharon (quoting Peggy). Good way to get one of the few redeeming parts of Civil War into the movie, without having it make zero sense with the way new Spider-Man is set up.
Bucky was and still is essentially a weapon of mass destruction that had fallen into the wrong hands several times. He's a liability that needed to be taken care of, and Cap constantly getting in the way of the law stopped that from happening. Even Bucky himself acknowledged that fact.
Did you even see that chase scene in Germany? If Cap had complied and let them take Bucky (or hell, even kill him) that's a hell of a lot of innocent people that wouldn't have gotten hurt or killed in his little escapade. And Zemo's plan would have failed.
If they hadn't sent a kill squad after a guy based on a single grainy photo, none of those people would have gotten hurt or killed and Zemo's plan would have failed.
The only reason Zemo was able to activate Bucky in the first place was because 1) the government imprisoned him and 2) the government were apparently too inept to detect/intercept someone like Zemo.
Even going back to TWS, Bucky was under the control of the government/SHIELD -- they were the ones using him as a "weapon of mass destruction".
Literally every single bad thing that happened, and every "bad thing" Bucky himself did, were because of the same people that wanted to have control over the Avengers. Gee I wonder why Cap's not on board with that.
In the world of these movies, literally anybody can be mind-controlled and used as a "weapon of mass destruction", should they all be pre-emptively killed?
It was a typo -- I meant to ask "Who killed [Stark's parents]?" in the comics, not "why" they were killed.....I understand why they were killed in the film.
On the Ides of March, Howard and Maria were killed in a car accident. It has been hinted that the incident was not random accident but a planned assassination. Many suspects have been named such as the V-Battalion[29], Roxxon[30] and Hydra[citation needed]. However Howard Stark said to Nathaniel Richards soon after joining the Brotherhood of the Shield that the Brotherhood would fake his death by car accident, calling his deceased status into question.[31]
it was recently revealed that Tony was adopted. We don't know who his real parents are. A dumb idea when there is still so much built in intrigue about their status already.
with how strong some of the heroes are power wise, falling from a little high up being the thing that led to actual damage was kinda jarring lol.
but yeah 2 iron man suits failing after damaged arc reactor, its going to be really silly if the next mark iron man doesn't have multiple arc reactors sli and shit.
Bucky was and still is essentially a weapon of mass destruction that had fallen into the wrong hands several times. He's a liability that needed to be taken care of, and Cap constantly getting in the way of the law stopped that from happening. Even Bucky himself acknowledged that fact.
Did you even see that chase scene in Germany? If Cap had complied and let them take Bucky (or hell, even kill him) that's a hell of a lot of innocent people that wouldn't have gotten hurt or killed in his little escapade. And Zemo's plan would have failed.
Uh. Yeah? It was the right move. Everything Vision said to her was spot on.
If they captured him his plan would have worked fine. If they would have killed him then Zemos plan would still work because the team would still be fractured. Cap would still be on the run and bitter about how Tony and his Avengers killed someone he cared about.
Youre also completely forgetting the part where them capturing or killing Bucky would mean killing or imprisioning an innocent man who didnt even do what they were after him for. Zemo's plan would have worked either way. In fact, the fracture would probably be even larger if Cap let them kill Bucky, because ultimately it would prove that Cap was right all along and they killed an innocent man because they were controlled by outside influence.
If they hadn't sent a kill squad after a guy based on a single grainy photo, none of those people would have gotten hurt or killed and Zemo's plan would have failed.
The only reason Zemo was able to activate Bucky in the first place was because 1) the government imprisoned him and 2) the government were apparently too inept to detect/intercept someone like Zemo.
Even going back to TWS, Bucky was under the control of the government/SHIELD -- they were the ones using him as a "weapon of mass destruction".
Literally every single bad thing that happened, and every "bad thing" Bucky himself did, were because of the same people that wanted to have control over the Avengers. Gee I wonder why Cap's not on board with that.
In the world of these movies, literally anybody can be mind-controlled and used as a "weapon of mass destruction", should they all be pre-emptively killed?
They should be held accountable for their actions, mind controlled or not. What do you expect the German government to do exactly? Just leave him be? When literally any person who knows the secret password can activate Bucky's kill switch and make him do whatever the fuck they want? Like, dude, he was clearly getting ready to make an escape from his apartment. I guess it's a good thing they didn't send friendly neighborhood Officer Harvey to knock on his door and sympathetically tell him he's under arrest for the suspected murder of 12 important U.N. representatives including the king of an African nation, because looking at Bucky's actions that clearly wouldn't have worked.
The government houses corruption, yes, but that doesn't automatically mean that you can be above the law if it suits your agenda. Steve's actions were selfish, and Tony's motion to compromise was for the greater good of the Avengers and the world at large.
If they captured him his plan would have worked fine. If they would have killed him then Zemos plan would still work because the team would still be fractured. Cap would still be on the run and bitter about how Tony and his Avengers killed someone he cared about.
Youre also completely forgetting the part where them capturing or killing Bucky would mean killing or imprisioning an innocent man who didnt even do what they were after him for.
Sorry we're Tony's parents and the countless other hits Hydra and other parties ordered just done by some other Winter Soldier I wasn't paying attention to? Bucky is a murderer whether he killed the king or not.
They should be held accountable for their actions, mind controlled or not. What do you expect the German government to do exactly? Just leave him be? When literally any person who knows the secret password can activate Bucky's kill switch and make him do whatever the fuck they want? Like, dude, he was clearly getting ready to make an escape from his apartment. I guess it's a good thing they didn't send friendly neighborhood Officer Harvey to knock on his door and sympathetically tell him he's under arrest for the suspected murder of 12 important U.N. representatives including the king of an African nation, because looking at Bucky's actions that clearly wouldn't have worked.
The government houses corruption, yes, but that doesn't automatically mean that you can be above the law if it suits your agenda. Steve's actions were selfish, and Tony's motion to compromise was for the greater good of the Avengers and the world at large.
If they were mind-controlled than it's not their actions....it's the actions of whoever is mind controlling them. They literally have no control over their own bodies.
Criminals can get away from punishments by using mental illness arguments in real world.
Why shouldn't involuntary mind control get similar treatments?
It was actually pretty ingenious. I totally wasn't expecting Hawkeye to even show up in this movie. I like the relationship between the Maximoffs and him established in Ultron.
And did you really just say that Spider-Man is low on the power scale? Considering the guy caught Bucky's punch in his hand like it was nothing then proceeded to toss him aside would state otherwise.
To say Spider-Man is on the low-end of the power scale is not meaning to shit on his abilities -- but he can't inflict the same level of destruction as an out-of-control Hulk or Vision might. If Wanda is concerned about mindfucking Vision that's fine, but there's really no reason she can't use her powers to disable someone like Black Widow or Spider-Man.
The Berlin airport was evacuated......if you are willing to accept that as an excuse for why she's so brutal and destructive with her telekinesis, then there's no reason she shouldn't also be using her mind-altering powers. She doesn't even use those powers against the non-enhanced terrorists in Laos. It seems as if the filmmakers have just willfully forgotten or ignored the powers they gave her in the previous Avengers film.
This may not have been the joke they were making, but a lot of children's sports leagues will have parents bring a post-game snack, like orange slices, as refreshments for the kids when they're done playing. (At the very least, this happened all the time when my wife coached a kids soccer team, and orange slices were always a big hit.)
I thought it played nicely with the "We're still friends, right?" conversation between Natasha and Clint. Kind of gave the feel that this was sort of a big game, not a real fight for serious stakes.
Which makes it that much more tragic a few minutes later when Rhodes gets shot down.
If they were mind-controlled than it's not their actions....it's the actions of whoever is mind controlling them. They literally have no control over their own bodies.
I'm not saying that Bucky should have gotten the electric chair, but if somebody can mind-control a superhero individual simply by uttering a series of codewords then that superhero is compromised and needs to be sidelined and taken out of service. He shouldn't be imprisoned for the rest of his natural life, but that's an unacceptable level of risk.
I really like Zemo. His background could've used some work - I feel like there should've been more layers rather than being a Sokovian with a grudge, but at the same time, this is exactly why I think Zemo works so well. The Avengers always stuck together for Earth-shaking events like the Battle of NY and Sokovia, but Zemo was able to make a permanent mark by tearing them apart, as someone with a personal grudge and a simple agenda.
The Sokovia Accords were like the scissors, and all he needed to do was use Bucky to cut the team in half, with the final cut to completely sever the two sides by revealing that Bucky killed Tony's parents.
This may not have been the joke they were making, but a lot of children's sports leagues will have parents bring a post-game snack, like orange slices, as refreshments for the kids when they're done playing. (At the very least, this happened all the time when my wife coached a kids soccer team, and orange slices were always a big hit.)
I thought it played nicely with the "We're still friends, right?" conversation between Natasha and Clint. Kind of gave the feel that this was sort of a big game, not a real fight for serious stakes.
Which makes it that much more tragic a few minutes later when Rhodes gets shot down.
I'll add that people probably needed to use the bathroom. The movie was 2.5 hours long. lol
I walked out of The Avengers on my first viewing after the Thanos reveal since I needed to pee. Then I saw the movie again and caught the Shawarma scene.
Tony hearing Scott talk inside his armor and then Scott saying the voice was his conscious was hilarious. My theater was laughing so hard at that we missed the rest of the joke.
Peer pressure and those lighting. I was lucky that the theater I was in use a really dimmed blue light instead the usual yellow/orange when a movie is over. So many ppl stayed.
I have seriously just stopped giving a fuck about post-credits scenes. I just paid $15 and sat in a theatre for 2+ hours to watch your movie.....I'm not sitting through 5 minutes of boring credits just to see some extra little snippet that may or may not be interesting or relevant to the next film(s) in the series. There was a long period where I waited around and watched them, but it's ultimately very rare that they are interesting or satisfying.
Criminals can get away from punishments by using mental illness arguments in real world.
Why shouldn't involuntary mind control get similar treatments?
If they were mind-controlled than it's not their actions....it's the actions of whoever is mind controlling them. They literally have no control over their own bodies.
Criminals with mental illnesses aren't let back into civilized society completely free to do whatever they please. They're kept locked away in mental institutions where they can get the help they need while simultaneously being kept safely away from innocent people.
Bucky is dangerous. It takes 10 (?) words said in order to set him loose. If he can't be detained then killing him is the next best option. Letting him free is not only insulting to the families of the people who died because of his actions, it's a gross negligence on account of the government.
Criminals with mental illnesses aren't let back into civilized society completely free to do whatever they please. They're kept locked away in mental institutions where they can get the help they need while simultaneously being kept safely away from innocent people.
Bucky is dangerous. It takes 10 (?) words said in order to set him loose. If he can't be detained then killing him is the next best option. Letting him free is not only insulting to the families of the people who died because of his actions, it's a gross negligence on account of the government.
My answer to this doesn't make it right. I understand Steve's motivations, but at the end of the day they are selfish. The lives of the people's he supposedly has pledged to protect are compromised as long as Bucky is out in the wild. The collateral damage in Germany alone is enough. You can't tell me nobody died in those car crashes - do their lives matter less than Bucky's?
My answer to this doesn't make it right. I understand Steve's motivations, but at the end of the day they are selfish. The lives of the people's he supposedly has pledged to protect are compromised as long as Bucky is out in the wild. The collateral damage in Germany alone is enough. You can't tell me nobody died in those car crashes - do their lives matter less than Bucky's?
The only car crash in that sequence that I remember being of a severity enough to kill someone was the car that Cap was driving himself that he dove out of.
By the way, how badass was T'Challa just hanging on the back of that car. "Sup."
I think my problem is that Steve doesn't really even make an argument in favor of Bucky, or point out to Tony that his intentions are cold-blooded murder. Maybe it's implicit that Bucky should not have to die for his actions under mind-control, but Cap should have said something rather than let Stark's emotions take control.
I am not particularly too fond of Steve sometimes, but its perfectly in character for him to want to defend Bucky, and the MCU has already stated that brainwashed people are not at fault, it was out of their control. I'd be questioning the fuck out of the movie if Steve lead Bucky hanging.
This may not have been the joke they were making, but a lot of children's sports leagues will have parents bring a post-game snack, like orange slices, as refreshments for the kids when they're done playing. (At the very least, this happened all the time when my wife coached a kids soccer team, and orange slices were always a big hit.)
Yes! It took me back to my soccer playing games as a kid. There were always the parents who would bring the orange slices and pass them around high fiving tired kids.
I definitely took it like that. Him punching out from the "game".
How do you figure? They weren't "their" actions. They were the actions of whomever was controlling them. If someone gives you an electric shock and your arm lashes out and hits somebody, should you be charged with assault?
What do you expect the German government to do exactly? Just leave him be?
Again, they didn't go there to arrest him, they went to kill him if I remember right. Based on one grainy photo.
The government houses corruption, yes, but that doesn't automatically mean that you can be above the law if it suits your agenda. Steve's actions were selfish, and Tony's motion to compromise was for the greater good of the Avengers and the world at large.
Steve's actions were the right actions. It wasn't about his "agenda", it was about getting to the bottom of what was going on. If he doesn't go after Bucky, Bucky still wipes out the cops, then either gets killed by Panther or captured and activated anyway and again wipes out all the same people. If he and the Avengers capture Bucky by UN order, then Bucky still gets activated by Zemo and still kills his way out.
As Cap argued, what if the Avengers were ordered to do something wrong? Or to stand down when there was something that needed doing? And what if those orders came as a result of corruption or some supervillain plot again? Bottom line is they can't ever be slaves to the government for those reasons.
Sorry we're Tony's parents and the countless other hits Hydra and other parties ordered just done by some other Winter Soldier I wasn't paying attention to? Bucky is a murderer whether he killed the king or not.
Aside from the fact that, again, "Bucky" didn't commit any of those crimes -- Hydra or whomever did -- I'm pretty sure neither Ross nor the Germans nor the UN knew about or were after him for any of those.
You should watch the spoiler review on the Schmoes knows youtube channel. One of the guys says he should have done this, and the other guy is just bewildered. It was fucking hilarious.
The only car crash in that sequence that I remember being of a severity enough to kill someone was the car that Cap was driving himself that he dove out of.
By the way, how badass was T'Challa just hanging on the back of that car. "Sup."
Just got out of the film. I have a lot of feelings, many of which I'm still processing but here is how I feel roughly at this point in time.
Alright, here we go
+ The airport fight scene was as amazing as everyone says it is. Full stop. It was extraordinary.
+ Ant-Man was freaking AMAZING in this movie. I literally YELLED when Giant-Man showed up. Honestly, I was shocked considering how much of a mediocre slog the Ant-Man film was. Goes to show how important direction is.
+ The conflict was incredible and made for excellent story beats and cinematic viewing
+ The final scene was fueled by raw emotion over logical grievances, which was a great way to juxtapose it to the airport scene
+ The chemistry between Scarlet Witch and Vision was just as good as I had ever hoped it would be. I was afraid they would never have touched it, but I was wrong and so happy to be wrong.
+ Once the fight choreography found its way, it was incredible. Every action beat had weight behind it that felt alive and exciting.
+ Black Panther was done very well in the movie. Loved how his arc was the polar opposite of Tony's by the end.
+ Crossbones had enough screentime as he should have had. Also his costume is AMAZING.
+ First time Scarlet Witch's double agent schtick really got to me.
- Worst Spider-Man put to live action American film. Worse Peter Parker than Andrew Garfield and worse Spider-Man than Toby Macguire. He added a lot of visual engagement in the airport scene, but his dialogue and acting direction was so flat.
- The character motivations for several characters on Team Cap were very weak. Captain America gives an oddly poor speech when asked to defend his reasoning and logic, Scarlet Witch changes her mind at the drop of a hat, and Hawkeye shows virtually no reason at all
- Why was Vision so inactive during the fight? Where was Hulkbuster during the fight???
- One of the weakest openings in the MCU
- Takes a long while to get all the pieces in place.
- Once the film climaxes in the second act, the movie runs out of steam instantly. The final act is more personal, but it's clear that the engagement curve nosedives.
- Other Winter Soldiers plotline was extraordinarily lame and pointless.
- That makes me feel that the entire movie exists to crescendo to the money scene and while it's THAT amazing, it eclipses everything else and contextualizes all of the events to make it about the airport scene. Pretty much means that I'm not dying to rewatch the movie as one EXTREMELY AMAZING part doesn't carry the entire movie as the rest isn't as good as some of the other MCU ventures.
- Baron Zemo is... he's not that bad, but he's really not good. He exists solely to move the plot along and feels token. The world already has the momentum to push the Civil War to occur. Also, his actions require extraordinary foresight to the point of lunacy when he's established as a regular guy.
N/A - Kiss between Cap and Sharon was... it was weird, man. Reaction shot was fantastic, though
N/A - One More Day is probably not going to happen
N/A - The stylistic location text was really obnoxious.
N/A - The Wakanda mid-credits scene was... interesting. The Spider-Man post-credits scene was lame.
N/A - The film wasn't that funny... but it wasn't trying to be really funny, so good on it.
Overall, I thought Captain America: Civil War was an extreme film. Its lows weren't bad (they were quite good, actually), but existed to payoff one scene, but boy did that scene work. Its easily the most conflicted I've been over a movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, since other films have had more consistent greatness than Civil War has. I'm afraid that my opinions on the film will change over time, which I try to avoid as much as possible. But I, at this very moment, feel that the movie is great but fails to stand among the very best of the MCU. I loved it, but at the moment of my first viewing, while I don't feel that the entire whole of the film pushes it to be above the most consistently great films of the series, I also want to reward it for being so viscerally exhilarating. So I'm mixed. First time in a while that a movie has stumped me. I look forward to the months of thinking about this movie, but for now I am confident in my conclusion. 8/10
Ranking:
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Captain America: The First Avenger
The Avengers
Captain America: Civil War
Iron Man 3
Thor: The Dark World
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Guardians of the Galaxy
Ant-Man
Iron Man
Thor
Iron Man 2
