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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
- Thread starter Son Of D
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Since her powers and Vision come both come from the Mind Gem I imagine that affords a bit of control.
It's a problem throughout the film. Overpowered characters like Vision and Scarlet Witch disappear when they would be most useful, then reappear at the last minute to save the day from some minor threat.
To be fair it's an Iron Man 3 spoiler being tagged. Just because it's a SPOILER thread for Civil War doesn't mean you should necessarily spoil other related films.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No, because what Zemo ended up being wasn't a garbage joke character thrown out in favor of some boring cardboard cut out villain that literally could have been anyone. In fact, it's debatable that he's the most effective Marvel villain yet. They've tinkered with plenty of the Marvel's villains and their motivations. Mandarin is just the only one that came out like garbage.
Also, holy shit, it's fucking crazy that people still think that the Mandarin is still a racist character. Read a comic book made in the last decade. Or hell, probably a comic book at all.
brandonh83
Banned
I think I'm going to watch
THOR 2
Haven't seen it in a while and don't really have anything better to do.
THOR 2
Haven't seen it in a while and don't really have anything better to do.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Vision i'll give you during the airport scene but the movie does a good job of explaining why Scarlet Witch is benched during the first half of the movie.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Did you not see what happened when things went south. The government's answer was throw these heroes in an underwater jail cell. I'd switch to Cap's side too, if I saw all my friends in jail.
Also Cap was in the right. Bucky was innocent (for the UN bombing).
Funny how the government wanted the Avengers and "enhanced humans" to answer to "someone" but when it came time to dishing out punishment, the government ignored the people's rights to a fair trial.
Cap had no choice but to go against them, if they deemed him guilty right from the start.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No, at least not that I've ever seen. And if you're asking why he killed them in the movie it's because they had the serum his handlers wanted to use to make more soldiers. Stark was one of the most powerful men in the world, they can't commit a crime like that and leave a person like him alive to explain what happened.
brandonh83
Banned
I'm not watching Thor 2. It just suddenly dawned on me that it would be a very lame idea.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Fun stuff. Give it a rent..
Do you mean just the fact that she's being semi-forcibly confined to the Avengers compound and is wrought with guilt over the casualties in Laos? What about the opening sequence, where she also seems to be a non-factor?
In the MCU her powers come from an Infinity Stone too, right? That's what the experiments came from, if I recall correctly.
It was a typo -- I meant to ask "Who killed [Stark's parents]?" in the comics, not "why" they were killed.....I understand why they were killed in the film.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The group of five women I went with hadn't seen Ant Man, but after it was done they were wanting to borrow it or just go buy it because of his awesome Paul Rudd was in this.
Well I was a few minutes late for the intro but I thought she was used pretty well to contain Crossbones.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
brandonh83
Banned
It's pretty good. Mostly a comedy, but with some solid characters and neat sequences.
Until Hickman finishes his SHIELD series if ever.
Getting to the larger issue -- why doesn't Scarlet Witch use any of her mind-bending, psychosis-inducing powers in Civil War? Her abilities could be used to reduce the amount of collateral damage in virtually any and every combat scenario. A large part of this film is devoted to her dealing with the consequences of collateral damage, yet she doesn't even try mind manipulation in Laos or at the airport.
I suppose it's easy to say "Well she's overpowered, so they de-powered her for this film." That's a wholly unsatisfying explanation already, but it begs the question why they didn't just de-power her from the start rather than giving her overpowered abilities in AoU and then pretending they didn't exist for Civil War.
I suppose it's easy to say "Well she's overpowered, so they de-powered her for this film." That's a wholly unsatisfying explanation already, but it begs the question why they didn't just de-power her from the start rather than giving her overpowered abilities in AoU and then pretending they didn't exist for Civil War.
MadLaughter
Member
I can see Cap having ethical concerns with messing with people's minds, and it didn't seem like she enjoyed doing it all that much in AoU.
From a filmmaking standpoint though, they probably wanted to keep the movie's mind control stuff 100% focused on Bucky.
From a filmmaking standpoint though, they probably wanted to keep the movie's mind control stuff 100% focused on Bucky.
hendersonhank
Member
He did what he wanted because it was the right thing, the government wanted a convenient scapegoat and didn't even want Bucky taken alive...exactly the kind of thing Cap was afraid they'd order the Avengers to do if they became UN puppets. Cap 2: Winter Soldier taught him what government agencies did when they had control over that kind of power.
Absolutely nothing went to shit because of anything Cap did, it was ALL because of what various government agencies did (Winter Soldier program, dead or alive orders with no evidence or trial, imprisoning heroes [again no trial]) and what Tony did. Even Rhodes, that was because they insisted on being stooges of Ross -- the guy who used Emil Blonsky -- and not trusting their own friend, the most proven guy in the MU; they started the fight, they wouldn't let it go -- and to top it all off, it wasn't it Vision that paralyzed Rhodes, not anyone on Cap's team?
Cap was right all along, about everything.
This was a civil war between responsible adults and rebellious fucking kids. Hawk Guy mouthing off to Tony from the jail cell was really fucking rich when he belonged there alongside the rest of the treasonous criminals. They're not above the law and they can't tell the government to kiss their ass just because they're "enhanced".
Tony was right and him being painted as the one in the wrong was really fucking frustrating, especially when he ended up losing the fight with Steve and his friend who needs a haircut. The ending was awful.
Tony was right and him being painted as the one in the wrong was really fucking frustrating, especially when he ended up losing the fight with Steve and his friend who needs a haircut. The ending was awful.
Why would she though? She's not able to control the things she puts into their heads and there's no telling how those visions would effect people like Vision, Spider-Man, and BP. A Vision and Spider-man on a rampage would eviscerate Caps side in minutes. And since she just killed 12 people with her most well versed ability I'm sure shes having some self doubt concerning her powers.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
They were telling the Governments to kiss their ass because the Governments handled it just as, if not more poorly than any Avengers mission ever went.
They went on a worldwide manhunt for the wrong suspect and tied the hands of the only people equipped to take care of the problem.
I entered the movie theater thinking #TeamIronMan.
I left still thinking #TeamIronMan.
But to be honest, it was important for Tony to lose that last fight and hold that L. Despite how much I wanted the opposite to happen, Cap had to overcome Tony's flush of revenge. The power of vengeance can't be shown to exceed Cap, both for Tony's sake and Bucky's.
And in fact, that's how Iron Man lost. Dude had Cap on lockdown after quite literally downloading him, then Bucky tried to fuck with him and Iron Man quite nastily kicks him to the side. It was the distraction Cap needed to bodyslam Tony, and after he mounted him the fight was pretty much over unless Tony was hard enough to fire up that unibeam and blow Cap's head off. Thankfully, he wasn't.
Captin Quacker
Member
you mean those same adult that put Wanda on house arrest just because she wouldn't sign the accords?
RellyRell28
Banned
Speaking of Howard it's kinda crazy to me seeing from the few times we see older Howard how much of an asshole he is compared to his younger self in TFA and the Agent Carter series. I mean yeah I get it about how people change as they get older but it just felt like the younger version had a personality that you would think stick even as he gets older. I don't know it was just something that was on my mind ever since TFA came out and was enhanced when Agent Carter came out.
Also yeah I'm gonna have to watch this movie again. I mean that airport battles were just too amazing.
Also yeah I'm gonna have to watch this movie again. I mean that airport battles were just too amazing.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Maybe after the events of Agent Carter, getting SHIELD started, the fruitless searches for Cap,and his business with Anton Vanko over arc reactor tech made him bitter. His alcoholism was only vaguely referred to within Iron Man 2, right?
Hidden One
Member
Spiderman's whole thing at the air port made this movie for me lol. Bravo Marvel.
Bucky was and still is essentially a weapon of mass destruction that had fallen into the wrong hands several times. He's a liability that needed to be taken care of, and Cap constantly getting in the way of the law stopped that from happening. Even Bucky himself acknowledged that fact.
Did you even see that chase scene in Germany? If Cap had complied and let them take Bucky (or hell, even kill him) that's a hell of a lot of innocent people that wouldn't have gotten hurt or killed in his little escapade. And Zemo's plan would have failed.
Uh. Yeah? It was the right move. Everything Vision said to her was spot on.
Fapping first so he doesn't get distracted during fight by Wanda. Didn't work.
Also, if Steve had signed the accord, he wouldn't have been able to go after Zemo since everything has to be approved first by the UN. I get him a bit more now but at the same time he's still selfish.
I think a big part of that had to do with his wife and son coming into his life. Really puts things into perspective and helps you clean your act up knowing you've got a family back home that depends on you.
Vision is a synthetic being without a traditional human brain, so there's no reason she would be able to control his mind (since she obviously couldn't do the same thing to Ultron or his robot buddies). Considering how easily she beat him down at the Avengers Compound though, it's kind of crazy that she didn't do the same thing at the Berlin airport. We ultimately come back to the same problem -- that an overpowered character's capabilities are entirely contingent on what the screenwriter wants to happen. There's no consistency......they are as overpowered or underpowered as they need to be depending on what plot elements need to be facilitated.
Spider-Man and Black Panther in the midst of some kind of hallucinogenic freakout would be totally ineffective. They are on the really low end of the power scale. I feel like she could've easily disabled everyone on Stark's side except Vision.
Scarlet Witch having some level of "self-doubt" about her powers doesn't work as an excuse considering the level of destruction she was more than willing to wreak with her telekinesis and energy bolts.
Ultimately the Accords is a good idea but this version was terrible.
It was created for the wrong reasons
(we lost control and want it back)
(LOL_Ross)
(LOL_Kings)
broncobuster
Banned
Let's be real, Wanda's lucky she isn't in jail after what she pulled in Age of Ultron.
So one other question, basically everybody is in Wakanda right now right? So Cap for sure, Falcon, Ant-man, Hawkeye and Scarlett Witch?
That's what the phone Steve sent to Tony is for right? He can call Cap and rest of the Avengers if needed?
So now I want to know who's going to be in the Black Panther film!!!!
That's what the phone Steve sent to Tony is for right? He can call Cap and rest of the Avengers if needed?
So now I want to know who's going to be in the Black Panther film!!!!
They already confirmed no Thanos in GOTG 2.
The more I think about it I really loved Zemo in this. When they arrive at the bunker and he's behind that door-and just toys with them. Then up on the roof he has that conversation with T'Challa-all great stuff.
Also-I still need someone to explain the orange slices joke to me.
Also-how great was that young RDJ? Amazing-looked like he just walked off the set of Back to School.
Also-I still need someone to explain the orange slices joke to me.
Also-how great was that young RDJ? Amazing-looked like he just walked off the set of Back to School.
brandonh83
Banned
I didn't get the orange slices joke either lol
It's a home remedy for nausea
Reminds me of korean movie Old Boy. Like smile "according to keikaku", then commit suicide by headshot.
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