demosthenes
Member
Black Panther is young, he even says, he's not his father, he doesn't have to start perfect, let's let him grow.
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
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Black Panther is young, he even says, he's not his father, he doesn't have to start perfect, let's let him grow.
Who was part of a plot to assassinate the president and take control for himself.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Tony acts so juvenile, "he killed my mom". At this point the whole "Avengers are causing harm" angle is thrown out the window and he becomes this child who loves his mother this *stretches out arms really wide* much. It's why Zemo's plan is just weird.
This doesnt make sense. Following your conversation people are saying that the elected politicians of these sovereign nations predictably want some semblance of control over the people entering and 'fighting crime' within their borders.
You ask whether or not its the elected politicians call or the people in immediate danger during a dangerous scenario who makes the call (about whether or not the heroes are allowed to come into their country and save them). And as expected, it is the elected politicians that make those laws/rules. The citizens express their views via consensus when voting presumably.
You then say you don't believe that the politicians are the ones who make that call considering politicians in the MCU have been compromised before????
Okay??
This doesn't follow. Compromised in the past or not; are you basically arguing that you dislike the fact that these nations didn't take up another form of government after their previous interactions with infiltration?
SuperStiltzkin
Member
You guys, I'm not coming at BP. I know this.
I mean... He acted human and that's what Zemo was betting on. He was betting on Tony's humanity and his feelings to cause him to lash out.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Yep. But in fairness I was wrong, AIM only directly controlled the VP.
Wheeljack539
Member
They were coming to kill him. "Shoot on sight," remember? And from an audience perspective we know that he was innocent. You're ok with letting a man set up to die?
Thinking back on it that entire prison bit also seemed like a wake up call to Tony. Who probably would be included in there for lying to Ross's face not to mention basically putting Ross on hold while Cap was getting the others out of there.
demosthenes
Member
I think you're ignoring the emotional state Tony is in during this movie. Pepper breaking up with him, who was the person that really helped him become who he is and the guilt from people dying and then finally finding out who killed his parents, juvenile? I hope you don't have all this fall on your shoulders in 36 hours lol
Yes, convenient, because it gives Cap the power to do anything he wants.
I really don't understand your criticism of Tony here. You expect him to not be human or something?
Lights and Waves
Member
Just got back from the movie. Eh...not worth the hype. The Marvel movies are getting stale.
Sometimes I think people think that "maturity" is something that is just turned on. Then that person can only act rational. It's not that simple. Even the most mature and rational people can become irrational if there is that one thing that breaks them.
I actually don't buy that the police were going to just kill Bucky when they came for him.
Tony is also a flat out douche who spends the whole damn film projecting his failures onto others. Its not everyone else that needs to be "Kept in check". Its Tonys dumbass for creating Ultron and all sorts of shit. Fitting to watch him go full asshole mode in the most selfish way at the end.
Fuck him.
Selfish? Seriously. Holy shit. People seemingly don't want characters to act as humans but as machines.
You just watched your PARENTS get brutally murdered. What would your reaction be?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Of course, but he's not a dumbguy. He knows Bucky has been mind controlled multiple times, and when it gets too emotional for him he just can't accept it? It's a cliche that's always used and, honestly, it would be more refreshing for the good guy defending his loved one to go, "yeah, he was mind controlled". I was totally expecting Tony to say that because it would fit the character.
Tony's going to be totally OK with Bucky later because he's had time to cool down. It's so generic.
STILLethal
Member
"He killed my mom!" got me...feels of peace...
ryutaro's mama
Member
It's a weird critique for sure.
I thought RDJ played that scene really well. In that moment, he was so overcome with confusion, rage, etc. especially when just a few minutes prior he took a significant risk just to get the information to HELP Cap and Bucky, then to find out that they both knew about what he saw as the ultimate betrayal.
Most of them have made mistakes, all of them should be answerable for their actions, all of them should operate under the law.
demosthenes
Member
He literally watched his parents murdered. I love the high ground everyone is standing on saying they wouldn't act the same way. This is the weakest criticism of him in the movie.
Wheeljack539
Member
Sharon was the one that relayed to Cap that those were the orders that were going out and that was what prompted him to act.
Cabbagehead
Member
Dude Tony Stark is douche going through the motions and he's on a mental and emotional roller coaster. This was his low point there was no seeing clearly.
He's a emotional guy by principle, he creates most of his suits on that fact.
PadWarrior
Member
I look forward to the day when Thor and panther meet.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Captain America has told Tony time and time again that Bucky has been mind controlled. You would think this BIG factor would somehow make Tony less child-like at the end.
He's a prick. I love these movies but it doesn't even feel like they are trying to make tony anything other than a halfway decent guy with supreme issues of selfishness.
He knows that Bucky was mind controlled, he doesn't have it in him to deal with it, so he flat out does a 180 degree turn on the whole 'we need to do all we can to not hurt people and sign these accords' to 'I'm gonna kill this motherfucker here asap'.
Pepper left his ass, and now so did many of the closest things he had to friends. Let him sit alone in his Avengers building with a black eye and a broken arm.
#IronmansAnAsshole
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Of course he acts juvenile. That's a defining characteristic of Tony Stark. This is a guy who gave out his address and called out an international terrorist to "1v1 me m8." And he built a whole complex holodeck thing to try and help him get over his trauma. I thought it was executed really well. I'm not gonna go "aw stop being a kid Tony, you just watched the guy standing next to you choke your mom to death. You really going to go soft on me now?" I can completely understand how that anger would consume him.
He actually doesn't know that. The only evidence of that for him is Cap's word...and Cap just admitted to hiding a very important fact about Bucky from him.
Megalosaro
Banned
This movie reminded me of oldboy. In a good way.
In any case, I liked it. Not as good as winter soldier, but captain America still continue's to be the best marvel has.
Not enough captain America though. Too much focus on stark.
Black Panther was great. Spiderman kind of sucked though.
Best scene in the movie was panther on the cliff with Zemo.
In any case, I liked it. Not as good as winter soldier, but captain America still continue's to be the best marvel has.
Not enough captain America though. Too much focus on stark.
Black Panther was great. Spiderman kind of sucked though.
Best scene in the movie was panther on the cliff with Zemo.
demosthenes
Member
LOL. Imagine you're him, you're telling me you would react differently? Please.
It doesn't matter what you're told. Your parents were murdered, you never knew by who, you don't just find out but you watch it and then find out that one of your friends hid this from you.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Movie was dope!! Black Panther, Ant Man and Spidey were great. So was Cap at the end. Best Marvel movie for me, easily.
Cabbagehead
Member
Iron man has ALWAYS been an selfish asshole with a heart. That's at his core.
This is who he is folks, a person with huge parental problems.
Right, the orders for the CIA or other clandestine organizations...but the cops are the ones that showed up, and nothing we saw indicated they were trying to just murder Bucky.
User 73706
Banned
aggressive regality
Just to clarify I agree, Tony is played well by RDJ and I think they executed his character perfectly. I just find that character to be an arrogant asshole. lol. To a degree I feel like he has always been this way a bit, all the way back to the first Ironman.
Guy is a narcissist.
"I'm the Ironman"
100% agree.
You didn't even answer the question. Your response is just repeating that he is an asshole. You don't even seem to understand how humans seem to work! We're not rational creatures, we have feelings that overcome logic. He's been going through so much shit in the past 36 hours and then not only does he see his parents murdered, but that his friend, KNEW!?
Jesus, no wonder he lashes out.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Been the same arrogant guy since the opening of Iron Man 1. Stark isn't a perfect man but holy shit, if I watched my parents be killed with the man responsible (mind controlled or not) standing right next to me...a guy I have been skeptical about from the start...guess who I'm focusing that raw emotion on?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
And Tony has zero reason to not believe Cap. Not once during their entire time together has Cap done something to make him a liar. This is called making Tony the hard-headed idiot who's so stubborn and unwilling to budge. He gets told Zemo is planning something and he's all, "I don't believe you, arrest him". Like, does Tony believe Cap is capable of being in leagues with a terrorist and being a terrorist himself? That's all I can get from this because Tony does not listen and it's not the character's fault, the writers need him to be this way.
But he is Iron Man?
Cap just admitted he had been keeping the secret of Tony's parents death from him.
demosthenes
Member
What about when cap admitted to know bucky killed his parents.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Cap had just broken the law, destroyed the Avengers, fought Tony, crippled his best friend, and admitted to hiding the truth about the murder of his parents. In that moment yes, Tony had reason to not trust Cap's judgment.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
After learning that Bucky killed them. He had zero idea beforehand thus making any suspicions the will of the writers causing artificial distrust.
Tony would totally listen and believe Cap if he said, "The guy interrogating Bucky initiated his mind control protocol during the blackout." And it would be in Tony's character to believe him because he has no reason not to. Tony just shrugs it off due to a deadline.
Tony is the worst thing about this movie.
Being brainwashed doesn't absolve a dude from killing my parents. I'd go with everything I had to kill that man if he were in front of me, now If I had time to cool off that's one thing, but to see the at done and have the killer right there is another situation.
BronsonLee
Member
Bucky is lucky Tony went for Cap first, dude should've been Unibeam'd in the chest
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Tony thinks Cap is letting his personal attachment to his only living WWII friend cloud his judgement. Tony always thinks he's right and always assumes that people who disagree just don't see the big picture like he does. He think he sees the big picture when Cap is really the one who does. And Tony ironically let his personal attachment to his mother cloud his judgement.. I don't think that's a mistake in the writing.
It doesn't fit his character. Tony and Bucky do not have any sort of relationship that matches the relationship Steve and Bucky do. He's not going to defend a known assassin who he barely has a relationship with in the first place as Steve would because Steve is his friend.
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