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[Cabbagehead]

I just don't like how the stones weren't mentioned at all ...if this is leading to infinity wars at least pit something about it in there

This movie was never about the stones though. It was about creating a situation were the Avengers are split apart and have to somehow come together to fight something, later on. As a result of the stones, plus infinity war is still far way anyways.

 

[Gleethor]

I just don't like how the stones weren't mentioned at all ...if this is leading to infinity wars at least pit something about it in there

Vision mentions his mind stone, and I appreciated that the story involved a lot of big MCU players converging without relying on an infinity stone/world ending stakes.

 

[Ragnorok64]

I just don't like how the stones weren't mentioned at all ...if this is leading to infinity wars at least pit something about it in there

I like that this wasn't Thanos inspired at all and just a matter of personal conflicts.

 

[Kalentan]

He blew up all of his suits. The Russos offered up an explanation for why he kept going, Whedon just has him show up with the mk 43 like nothing happened.

He blew up the suits because he made him as a distractions for his PTSD he had from the events of Avengers. He never stated he was going to stop being Iron Man, the movie even ends with: "Iron Man will Return."

The movie was also about how it's not just his suit that makes him Iron Man, it's the man inside that makes the suit.

 

[guek]

Vision mentions his mind stone, and I appreciated that the story involved a lot of big MCU players converging without relying on an infinity stone/world ending stakes.

And yet, the MCU is kind of in shambles after Civil War. It's a great starting point in the build up to Infinity War.

 

[Cabbagehead]

We actually saw this one in Ant Man. A private corporation selling their super soldier serum to the highest bidder, whether legitimate government, rogue state, or terrorist organization.

Would have been chaos eventually.

Yeah chaos at the highest bidder isn't what people want. Especially if the price of that super powered protection results in later conflict.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

He blew up the suits because he made him as a distractions for his PTSD he had from the events of Avengers. He never stated he was going to stop being Iron Man, the movie even ends with: "Iron Man will Return."

The movie was also about how it's not just his suit that makes him Iron Man, it's the man inside that makes the suit.

This was so obvious, lmao.

There's even a lingering shot of Tony looking at his mask in flames in the final battle, for about 10 seconds.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You judgment is clouded like that traitor Rogers.

Spoiler

You could well be right, I have to watch it again. Somehow I'll force myself to.

Same, I'll need to rewatch to see what I think on a second look.

 

[Wheeljack539]

Some nice discussion going on here. I agree with the people saying that in the end Tony was kind of in the right. Bucky doesn't really deserve Steve defending him.

Bucky has been tortured and brainwashed for nearly 70 years during which those who broke him down to being a mindless weapon used him to commit assassinations and other atrocious acts to help push society to a tipping point to welcome their new world order.

The moment he started to question things, which were only due to the fact that he had been out of ice for a small extended period of time they put his mind through the blender again.

He only barely got to be himself afterwards and then was framed for a crime he didn't commit. We as the audience know this. Yet, knowing this you would still throw him under the bus?

He was never in control of himself for any of that. Hell, what's even worse is him regaining those memories and realizing what Zemo is doing during the 'interrogation' scene as Bucky knows what will happen when Zemo completes the trigger words.

 

[inky]

Tony Stark is the most emotional motherfucker in every building he's ever in

For real.
Sees his weapons in the hands of terrorists? Shuts down weapons manufacturing entirely.
He is kinda dying in Iron Man 2? Acts completely erratic, puts himself in danger several times, lets Rhodey run away with his suit, makes Pepper CEO, gives away his art collection.
Happy becomes a victim of the Mandarin: gives him his address and basically tells him to fite him after class.
Ultron is pretty obvious.

In Civil War his arc being dominated by emotion is entirely consistent with his character. A grieving mother guilts him into supporting the Accords, plus it's obviously an accumulation of every other situation here, Pepper leaving, the team splitting, etc.

He's beaten the hell down this in movie. Expecting him to act rational at that exact moment in the end is the last thing anyone should be doing.

 

[Garlador]

I don't see how changing the origin details of a major character is seen as being nitpicky.

Suit origins are often some of the most malleable stuff. In Batman Begins, they go through a long process of making the suit, with a huge emphasis of where he drew inspiration from, such as the ninja arm blades from the League of Shadows and experimental static-charged glider fabric, etc. Superman's costume sometimes is homemade, sometimes it's made from the blanket he was wrapped up in, and sometimes it's just "given" to him by his space-ghost dad. Captain America's costume in TFA was purely made by propagandists.

I'm more than okay with Spider-man's suit getting adapted, because every single iteration of his suit has been different to certain degrees.

 

[Fandangox]

Some nice discussion going on here. I agree with the people saying that in the end Tony was kind of in the right. Bucky doesn't really deserve Steve defending him. I get that he's your former best friend and all, but if my former best friend murdered the parents of another friend one of who also happened to be a dear friend to the love of my life, I wouldn't go out of my way to defend the murderer, childhood friend or not.

Nah both where right in that situation. Tony was completely justified in losing his shit, and of course Cap was justified defending Bucky, since he was brainwashed to do all that stuff. Related to that specific situation thought, Cap did fuck up by not telling Tony about it.

 

[Ragnorok64]

I am SO GLAD they didn't go with the five super soldiers common enemy bullshit.

So fucking glad.

Mind you, Russos would have nailed a final fight scene with what is essentially five Bucky's vs. Cap, Tony, and Bucky, anyway.

I actually really liked Zemo in this. He was significantly different from any villain we've seen before. No power, no ability to actually challenge the great and mighty Avengers aside from one gift: his patience and drive. He's just a regular guy with powerful motivations to bring the Avengers to its knees. He was exactly the right villain to bring together a contained climax as opposed to a world-ending plan. All he wanted was to rip the team apart, and he honestly did succeed.

I like how Zemo had already planned to kill himself after his plan was finished. He was driven to do only that, and once it was completed, he had nothing left for himself. He was 100% functioning only on his hatred of the Avengers and his vengeance.

Can we say Zemo won? Yeah, he did. But not fully. The Avengers will come back together, and Tony will get over himself. But he crippled them severely, that can't be denied.

I feel that Zemo accomplishing what he did, acting independently, is one of the things we have to suspend our disbelief the most for the movie to work. But it's all within reason in a comic book universe.

Honestly it feels like this movie could have been called Captain America: Consequences. Because out off all the movies this one feels like it'd have the most substantial impact, for the team, in the end.

 

[Calamari41]

Yeah I think it's lot more realistic that Tony would provide Parker with his suit rather than having a poor kid somehow make such a professional looking suit on his own.

 

[btown]

I came out of this movie thinking it was alright but the more I think about it, the more I liked it and want to see it again. It's very dense and there's a lot to think about.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

When did tony and pepper break up?

 

[NomarTyme]

Loved antman and spiderman. The definitely stole the movie for me.

 

[guek]

Honestly it feels like this movie could have been called Captain America: Consequences.

 

[Garlador]

Bucky has been tortured and brainwashed for nearly 70 years during which those who broke him down to being a mindless weapon used him to commit assassinations and other atrocious acts to help push society to a tipping point to welcome their new world order.

The moment he started to question things, which were only due to the fact that he had been out of ice for a small extended period of time they put his mind through the blender again.

He only barely got to be himself afterwards and then was framed for a crime he didn't commit. We as the audience know this. Yet, knowing this you would still throw him under the bus?

He was never in control of himself for any of that. Hell, what's even worse is him regaining those memories and realizing what Zemo is doing during the 'interrogation' scene as Bucky knows what will happen when Zemo completes the trigger words.

All this stuff reminds me of what went down in Jessica Jones when they had a crazy mind controller on the loose. If someone mind controls you to kill someone else, it shouldn't be their fault.

That whole show was about dealing with those consequences and how stacked the deck was against the victims of the mind control. A lot of people were forced to kill others in that show and were horrified by what they did, and a lot of people wanted to make them pay for the lives they took and directed that anger at the victims.

 

[Fandangox]

Yeah I think it's lot more realistic that Tony would provide Parker with his suit rather than having a poor kid somehow make such a professional looking suit on his own.

Well Peter still ended up being able to make everything else about his costume despite being broke as fuck, I guess its since that he just that resourceful and smart, in a way he did create his "suit" in a cave with a box of scraps.

Don't mind much that Tony made the iconic outfit as long as all the gadgets and specially the webbings were designed by Peter himself.

 

[Blues1990]

I think what really made me shocked was Pepper wanted to be away from Tony, given that the two of them had been together through thick and thin.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Enjoyed the movie, but wish there was more Cap in it.

Felt like an Iron Man movie almost.

 

[Gleethor]

He blew up the suits because he made him as a distractions for his PTSD he had from the events of Avengers. He never stated he was going to stop being Iron Man, the movie even ends with: "Iron Man will Return."

The movie was also about how it's not just his suit that makes him Iron Man, it's the man inside that makes the suit.

It actually says "Tony Stark will return" which is definitely ambiguous. Its completely understandable for people to have questions upon seeing him back in a suit during Age of Ultron after seeing the ending of IM3. Again, the Russos took like 3 seconds to kind of smooth that over, and I appreciated it. All I'm saying.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Demonstrates that he is still flawed in ways that cut deep into his underlying traumas.

How does this make his character more interesting and able to grow? Why is fighting Cap and Bucky more interesting and better for the story than for him to not but come to terms with the situation? You would think after so many movies with him he would grow past his ego and whiny stage but he doesn't. When will he and why was this not a good time to start? Why does Captain America's letter spark this and not Tony himself?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Tony Stark is the most emotional motherfucker in every building he's ever in

Yeah Tony Stark is very emotional a lot of his actions are based on that.

No, he isn't. Tony is always logical until the moment someone slaps him in the face with reality as it really is rather than reality as he thinks it should be.

That's part of the reason why Cap grates on Tony so much. Cap cuts right through his bullshit simply and efficiently and breaks Tonys logic which in turns brings out the emotions. But Tony is always logic and ego first. This doesn't mean he has no emotions or that emotions never influence him but that logic is always his first reaction. Its always his answer.

Cap is the character with emotional core as his decisions are always made based on emotions and morals regardless of the logic against or in support of him.

 

[Kalentan]

It actually says "Tony Stark will return" which is definitely ambiguous. Its completely understandable for people to have questions upon seeing him back in a suit during Age of Ultron after seeing the ending of IM3. Again, the Russos took like 3 seconds to kind of smooth that over, and I appreciated it. All I'm saying.

Tony Stark IS Iron Man. That's the point. I remembered wrong, but the point was that Tony Stark IS Iron Man, not the suit.

 

[Calamari41]

Well Peter still ended up being able to make everything else about his costume despite being broke as fuck, I guess its since that he just that resourceful and smart, in a way he did create his "suit" in a cave with a box of scraps.

Don't mind much that Tony made the iconic outfit as long as all the gadgets and specially the webbings were designed by Peter himself.

Yeah I really liked the fact that his hand made suit was pretty much fully featured but looked totally Jerry-rigged. Tony just made it look sleek.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Bucky is the real victim in all of this. Knowing that he remembers all of the horrible things that he was forced to do. It's heart breaking and must be a hellish nightmare. Not being able to stop you're self.

I mean i can't imagine what that moment would be like for him to take in all the things he did. It would be to much.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

When did tony and pepper break up?

What they hinted at was after AOU

 

[Fandangox]

Tony Stark is impulsive. All the shit he does is a mixture of emotion and logic, he is impulsive as fuck, after an action occurs he logically sits through the first step of his response without really thinking about what the consequences will be. He is logically driven do the stuff he does after he is emotionally shaken.

"Oh shit... my weapons have been on the wrong hands all along..." > "SHUT IT ALL DOWN"

"OH SHIT HOMMIE, HAPPY WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU" > "COME AND GET SOME MANDARIN, here's my address, by the way"

"FUCK THE ALIENS COULD COME BACK ALL MY FRIENDS WILL DIE" > "I BETTER CREATE A SENTIENT SUITE OF ARMOR THAT WILL PROTECT THE WORLD"

"fuck I messed up seriously bad with Ultron" "BETTER GIVE ROSS FULL CONTROL"

 

[Ragnorok64]

I've lost track, but where is Nick Fury supposed to be during all this? He got that old Helicarrier out of mothballs for Age of Ultron but he's he been seen since?

 

[BewareTheBatsie]

When did tony and pepper break up?

Seemingly sometime inbetween AOU and CW given Pepper is mentioned by Tony in AOU and it implied happy times. My guess for the reason why is because IM 3 is Tony going "I'm done, Pep" and well, then he goes and creates Ultron not two years later, getting back into the Avenger business.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Tony Stark is impulsive. All the shit he does is a mixture of emotion and logic, he is impulsive as fuck, after an action occurs he logically sits through the first step of his response without really thinking about what the consequences will be. He is logically driven do the stuff he does after he is emotionally shaken.

"Oh shit... my weapons have been on the wrong hands all along..." > "SHUT IT ALL DOWN"

"OH SHIT HOMMIE, HAPPY WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU" > "COME AND GET SOME MANDARIN, here's my address, by the way"

"FUCK THE ALIENS COULD COME BACK ALL MY FRIENDS WILL DIE" > "I BETTER CREATE A SENTIENT SUITE OF ARMOR THAT WILL PROTECT THE WORLD"

"fuck I messed up seriously bad with Ultron" "BETTER GIVE ROSS FULL CONTROL"

Yep he may use logic at first but it's only thinly veiled. In order for emotions to take over. A lot of what he does is reactionary in his worst fuck ups.

 

[Fandangox]

Also my theater went crazy in the expected areas, Spider-Man, the airport fight, etc.

Never in my life though I would have expected cheers and claps when fucking Scott Lang appears on the screen for the first time. We live in a world where Ant-Man gets cheers on the screen, Marvel's done a good job lol

 

[Gleethor]

Tony Stark IS Iron Man. That's the point. I remembered wrong, but the point was that Tony Stark IS Iron Man, not the suit.

I'm not even disagreeing with that point. I just liked that the ending of IM3 was acknowledged in a different film, which I wasn't expecting after AoU didn't at all.

 

[Manmademan]

When did tony and pepper break up?

It's almost as if people don't actually listen to the dialogue in these movies at all

 

[friskykillface]

Paul Rudd is god

Guy is just hilarious

 

[guek]

How does this make his character more interesting and able to grow?

Because flaws humanize him, and breaking the character down makes his eventual reconstruction more meaningful.

Why is fighting Cap and Bucky more interesting and better for the story than for him to not but come to terms with the situation?

Because the movie ends with both Tony and Steve compromised. Tony did not act in a way befitting an Avenger and Steve betrayed Tony's trust and is no longer worthy of the Captain America mantle as a fugitive.

You would think after so many movies with him he would grow past his ego and whiny stage but he doesn't. When will he and why was this not a good time to start?

This movie was him trying to grow past his ego, that's why he submitted to the authority of the UN and the Accords. Tony abstaining from an emotional outburst and opting to play along to fight the bad guy would have been both too neatly contrived and not representative of how fragile his mental state had become by the end of the movie.

Why does Captain America's letter spark this and not Tony himself?

What the heck are you even talking about here. The letter doesn't develop Tony's character, it develops Steve's.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Also my theater went crazy in the expected areas, Spider-Man, the airport fight, etc.

Never in my life though I would have expected cheers and claps when fucking Scott Lang appears on the screen for the first time. We live in a world where Ant-Man gets cheers on the screen, Marvel's done a good job lol

Same reaction in my theater for Spidey, i know i was geeking out when he showed up. Scott Lang getting cheers and reaction was eye opening (But how could you not?). Plus a few kids even pointed out Black Panther before he had the suit on. lol

 

[Valentus]

Vision mentioned his. He said he doesn't fear it but he wants to understand it because it is part of him. As far as anyone on Earth is concerned the Infinity Stones are safe as houses.

The Earth doesnt fucking know what the infinity stones are. The only earthlings that knows are the avengers and starlord.

And it will be interesting to know what will happen to vision when thanos rip off the mind gem from him (that could be the cliffhanger of part 1 of inf. war)

 

[Cabbagehead]

The Earth doesnt fucking know what the infinity stones are. The only earthlings that knows are the avengers and starlord.

And it will be interesting to know what will happen to vision when thanos rip off the mind gem from him (that could be the cliffhanger of part 1 of inf. war)

What's left of SHIELD they know right? or at least Fury does.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Was Fury flying Hulk to that island in space with the Rainbow Road where Thor lives?

 

[PsychBat!]

What's left of SHIELD they now right? Or at least Fury does.

No, none of them know.

 

[Cabbagehead]

No, none of them know.

That's odd i thought Fury would be in the know. Strange.

 

[Garlador]

That's odd i thought Fury would be in the know. Strange.

I don't think Doctor Strange knows either.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Because flaws humanize him, and breaking the character down makes his eventual reconstruction more meaningful.



Because the movie ends with both Tony and Steve compromised. Tony did not act in a way befitting an Avenger and Steve betrayed Tony's trust and is no longer worthy of the Captain America mantle as a fugitive.



This movie was him trying to grow past his ego, that's why he submitted to the authority of the UN and the Accords. Tony abstaining from an emotional outburst and opting to play along to fight the bad guy would have been both too neatly contrived and not representative of how fragile his mental state had become by the end of the movie.



What the heck are you even talking about here. The letter doesn't develop Tony's character, it develops Steve's.

Rogers is still Captain America without the shield. This is mentioned in his letter. You're just making some weird analysis now.

Tony and Steve didn't compromise with each other. Tony liking the phone means he grew from Cap's words in the letter which is an act Tony should have done himself without the help of Cap. There can't be a compromise if Steve breaks every one out of jail.

Tony's mental state isn't fragile. Stop trying to make it fragile. It's never going to be fragile.

 

[Loke13]

Was Fury flying Hulk to that island in space with the Rainbow Road where Thor lives?

What? Where did you get that from?

 

[foxuzamaki]

Just saw it, loved it, why is the black panther movie so fr away

 

[Blablurn]

does someone have a pic of the arrested development truck from the airport?

 

[Captin Quacker]

Bucky means they can assassinate world leaders, which is what Bucky did. That doesn't mean a gov't was corrupt.

As for trust in the gov't, it is up to the people to demand more transparency to earn trust.

and that's all it takes is one dead world leader then someone corrupt could step into power or it could be used as a tactic to escalate tension between nations

Between Hydra infiltration AIM's VP and WSC they haven't earned that trust