orthodoxy1095
Banned
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
- Thread starter Son Of D
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Escape Goat
Member
Its not like it was his fault.
How do you know that this usually happens?
To be fair it probably wouldn't have done much. I loved Falcon earnestly apologizing to Tony after Rhodey eats it and Tony immediately blasting him.
Honestly the only character that made no sense was Hawkeye, why would he take a side after retirement, dude has a family.
I guess the same can be argued about Scott and putting the Pym tech at risk, but Scott is kind of an idiot, so that works out for his character. Ant Man & The Wasp really need to start with Pym yelling "WHAT THE FUCK WHERE YOU DOING AT THAT AIRPORT" like someone suggested.
I guess the same can be argued about Scott and putting the Pym tech at risk, but Scott is kind of an idiot, so that works out for his character. Ant Man & The Wasp really need to start with Pym yelling "WHAT THE FUCK WHERE YOU DOING AT THAT AIRPORT" like someone suggested.
Cabbagehead
Member
Dude were talking about comic book gov't that sanction experimental projects. They may or may not create monsters or killing machines.
That's not the will of the people. MCU gov't are jumpy little critters.
There is no way Cap is his best friend. And the previous movies didn't do enough, nor did this movie, to show that his parents were such a sensitive topic imo
Calamari41
41 > 38
Might help to diffuse the situation instead of essentially saying "deal with it, it's not like it was my fault."
Lol good point, maybe it wouldn't have diffused the situation after all.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
It's not like Bucky wasn't traumatized watching that video either
Everbody was walking on egg shells in that scene. Tony was just one small push from going his beserk. I think Bucky did the smart thing by keeping his mouth shut.
Escape Goat
Member
"I realized you can't destroy power. All you can do is make sure it's in the right hands."
―Hank Pym
I think Hawkeye sided with Cap because Tony put Wanda under house arrest and that felt awfully close to imprisoning her because her powers are dangerous. He tells her he's got a debt, remember? You're right though that they could have made that motivation more obvious.
yanipheonu
Member
The movie actually is surprisingly deep when you realize the angle that, these superheroes with all this power are ultimately not acting for ideals or justice, but, ultimately, personal emotional reasons. Tony because of his guilt, his loss of Pepper and his mom, Cap with his connection with Bucky and the recent loss of Carter.
Under all that pretence of "doing the right thing", it's ultimately their feelings that cause them to act. And while that saves lives like in New York, it can end lives, and cause them to almost kill each other,
Black Panther is cool in this regard because he has a relatively justified desire for revenge, but ultimately realizes his fault by the end.
Rather than get all higher than thou and pretentious, the heroes really feel human. It's done pretty well.
Under all that pretence of "doing the right thing", it's ultimately their feelings that cause them to act. And while that saves lives like in New York, it can end lives, and cause them to almost kill each other,
Black Panther is cool in this regard because he has a relatively justified desire for revenge, but ultimately realizes his fault by the end.
Rather than get all higher than thou and pretentious, the heroes really feel human. It's done pretty well.
Cabbagehead
Member
WSC is a perfect example. In the film universe.
Still there are to many to mention in comic books right off the bat. But i'll refresh myself and post more.
Scott has a lot of explaining to do.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Any help here?
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Reading comics would be a good start.
NealMcCauley
Member
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I sincerely hope that is the explanation given just
Calamari41
41 > 38
He later mentions that he remembers all of his kills. Though a traumatic and tragic fact, I took his behavior watching the video to be more of an "oh shit the cats out of the bag" than "what was I made to do?" realization
I guess that makes sense, but I mean what else could have been done? Its pointed out she was not a U.S. citizen, after what happened the smart thing was to lay down for a while the dust settles, but of course Tony had to mess it up by apparently telling Vision, but not Wanda.
I really could have seen a scene where Wanda just walks out to the public, and people start throwing shit at her or whatever, like the iron legion at the beginning of Ultron.
It's a continuation of the Winter Soldier fallout like you said. He tried being a soldier again and that didn't work out as expected.
What? He never stopped being Iron Man... That's why his last line in IM3 is. "I am... Iron Man."
You don't think it's the will of the people to have their gov't create super soldiers to defend their country?
If not best friend then they still care deeply for each other.
And the death of your parents is usually a very sensitive topic for most people and this movie showed that Tony is still being affected by their deaths during his presentation at MIT it showed that he still felt guilt over not telling his parents he loved them on the day of their deaths.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
"I remember all of them!"
You know, I never really cared for Bucky because he was in his Winter Soldier mode for the whole last movie. But this one really made me sympathize with him. Trying to live peacefully in a shit apartment all Bourne like and then his painful past pulls him back in.
Escape Goat
Member
They did the same trick in Ant Man with Hank Pym and that other bitch guy. They probably just rubbed vaseline all over the camera.
Cabbagehead
Member
Hell no lol
Dude you think people knew about Tony's Father experimenting on random people to make super soliders? No they didn't that's why it was top secret, it wasn't advertised.
Like the Vision said if you're powerful, you stick out and you will invite great danger and challengers. Thus great destruction.
The number of times gov'ts acted for the people's agenda would far out number the times gov'ts acted for their own agenda, even in the MCU.
Haters are my motivators.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Yeah it was a very well executed revelation that adds a lot to the previous scenes and the last movie.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
See I read his face as the latter rather than the former. But I admit that might be because of how much I like Bucky.
Iron Man 2 was Daddy Issues: The Movie.
You don't think the public wanted more Captain Americas? Okay then.
Calamari41
41 > 38
You judgment is clouded like that traitor Rogers.
You could well be right, I have to watch it again. Somehow I'll force myself to.
He blew up all of his suits. The Russos offered up an explanation for why he kept going, Whedon just has him show up with the mk 43 like nothing happened.
The fact that has happened in the past doesn't change anything. Cap isn't above the law, Cap isn't the arbiter of all that is right, Cap isn't a god. He's just a man.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Err, it's not a matter of "want". "Egotistical douchebag" is still where Tony's at at this point in the universe. You can't just make a character change in an uncharacteristic way for the sake of "character growth" just because that's how you want it to be personally.
That's what makes them two different and unique characters.
Demonstrates that he is still flawed in ways that cut deep into his underlying traumas.
I don't see how changing the origin details of a major character is seen as being nitpicky.
Manmademan
Member
Ideally all of the Avengers would have followed him up there after learning he was about to activate a dozen super soldiers.
Zemo actually screwed up in that his plan almost worked TOO well with the avengers turning on each other at the airport and it was only a happy accident that Stark made it up there at all. The Avengers were done before that fight. That was just the straw that broke the camels back.
Cabbagehead
Member
Captain America was happen stance because of World War 2. An frankly who the hell knows what that world would be like if a bunch of super soldiers were created and there's no war to fight and if that became a thing. There would be a lot of super soldier wars. Because someone will want that power if they're not getting it, since they're practical human sized nukes.
blankempathy
Member
Probably because its an adaption? Considering how poor Peter was he clearly had the right idea but not the money. Tony probably just gave him the resources and tips. Hell considering they had a fight to get to thats probably why Tony helped him more then he would have.
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
I just don't like how the stones weren't mentioned at all ...if this is leading to infinity wars at least pit something about it in there
Vision has a conversation about the stone with Wanda when he was cooking.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I think Guardians will be a lot more stone-focused
Escape Goat
Member
Vision mentioned his. He said he doesn't fear it but he wants to understand it because it is part of him. As far as anyone on Earth is concerned the Infinity Stones are safe as houses.
Manmademan
Member
We actually saw this one in Ant Man. A private corporation selling their super soldier serum to the highest bidder, whether legitimate government, rogue state, or terrorist organization.
Would have been chaos eventually.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
I am SO GLAD they didn't go with the five super soldiers common enemy bullshit.
So fucking glad.
Mind you, Russos would have nailed a final fight scene with what is essentially five Bucky's vs. Cap, Tony, and Bucky, anyway.
I actually really liked Zemo in this. He was significantly different from any villain we've seen before. No power, no ability to actually challenge the great and mighty Avengers aside from one gift: his patience and drive. He's just a regular guy with powerful motivations to bring the Avengers to its knees. He was exactly the right villain to bring together a contained climax as opposed to a world-ending plan. All he wanted was to rip the team apart, and he honestly did succeed.
I like how Zemo had already planned to kill himself after his plan was finished. He was driven to do only that, and once it was completed, he had nothing left for himself. He was 100% functioning only on his hatred of the Avengers and his vengeance.
Can we say Zemo won? Yeah, he did. But not fully. The Avengers will come back together, and Tony will get over himself. But he crippled them severely, that can't be denied.
So fucking glad.
Mind you, Russos would have nailed a final fight scene with what is essentially five Bucky's vs. Cap, Tony, and Bucky, anyway.
I actually really liked Zemo in this. He was significantly different from any villain we've seen before. No power, no ability to actually challenge the great and mighty Avengers aside from one gift: his patience and drive. He's just a regular guy with powerful motivations to bring the Avengers to its knees. He was exactly the right villain to bring together a contained climax as opposed to a world-ending plan. All he wanted was to rip the team apart, and he honestly did succeed.
I like how Zemo had already planned to kill himself after his plan was finished. He was driven to do only that, and once it was completed, he had nothing left for himself. He was 100% functioning only on his hatred of the Avengers and his vengeance.
Can we say Zemo won? Yeah, he did. But not fully. The Avengers will come back together, and Tony will get over himself. But he crippled them severely, that can't be denied.
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