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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos

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What was effective about him? You mentioned Pepper and Tony's relationships. You have yet to show how the movie framed Rhodey to be someone to care for except that, you know, he's Tony's BFF. This is, literally, anime level.

What reason is there for Vision to shoot at them? Tony says shoot him down but thematically and story wise this seems like
string bell dying but to some random without a thematic reason

I haven't read any other part of the discussion other than what at the end of the last page, but is this facetious? Tony and Rhodes have been a partnership established in 4 previous movies. Their friendship was extremely well established before coming into this one. So, yeah, him getting shot out of the sky is very effective, and has silenced the theater both times I've seen it.


Also, to answer your question in the second part of your post, Rhodes asks Vision to take out Falcon's thrusters.

Rhodes: Vision, I've got a bandit on my six. Vision! Do you copy? Target his thruster, turn him into a glider!

We see Vision (who's not really paying attention because of his focus on Wanda) look up from where he's sitting, actively target Falcon's thrusters and fire (with a zoom-in, targeting reticles and everything). Falcon dodges, and the beam grazes Rhodes instead.
 
I haven't read any other part of the discussion other than what at the end of the last page, but is this facetious? Tony and Rhodes have been a partnership established in 4 previous movies. Their friendship was extremely well established before coming into this one. So, yeah, him getting shot out of the sky is very effective, and has silenced the theater both times I've seen it.


Also, to answer your question in the second part of your post, Rhodes asks Vision to take out Falcon's thrusters.

Rhodes: Vision, I've got a bandit on my six. Vision! Do you copy? Target his thruster, turn him into a glider!

We see Vision (who's not really paying attention because of his focus on Wanda) look up from where he's sitting, actively target Falcon's thrusters and fire (with a zoom-in, targeting reticles and everything). Falcon dodges, and the beam grazes Rhodes instead.

4 movies, so what can you show me that makes the audience want to care or feel for Rhodey. All I've been told is he's Tony's BFF and that's enough to make people care. That's very shallow. Vision is asked to shoot him down but on a story and thematic level was that correct? Why didn't the movie follow-up with Vision after? This is what separates, to me, good blockbusters from those that are just going through the motions. We know why Vision shoots down Rhodey but is it any good?
 
Would be weird and have to be sufficiently explored before I accept it. You would then question why Vision is the one to harm Rhodey and the fallout with that. It's never addressed. The movie wants you to care but doesn't do the necessary follow-up.

Vision shoots down Rhodey because Rhodey was the one who incapacitates his bae Scarlet Witch.
 
How the heck does mkvcage already have super high quality 720p and 1080p rips of Civil War and Jungle Book? Do they have a mole inside Disney or something?
 
How the heck does mkvcage already have super high quality 720p and 1080p rips of Civil War and Jungle Book? Do they have a mole inside Disney or something?

Looked it up, here's the info from their release notes:

Here we are with the perfect release of this amazing movie.
batman colors were confusing to me but this one after working on them looks really Alive.
as usual perfect Chinese early source. we had our own HDCAM source too but decided to went with TC.
work on colors, levels, rgb, sharp, a little bit of Jon Snow magic and then synced Line audio to my finish video, which i had for 1 week.
 
4 movies, so what can you show me that makes the audience want to care or feel for Rhodey. All I've been told is he's Tony's BFF and that's enough to make people care. That's very shallow. Vision is asked to shoot him down but on a story and thematic level was that correct? Why didn't the movie follow-up with Vision after? This is what separates, to me, good blockbusters from those that are just going through the motions. We know why Vision shoots down Rhodey but is it any good?

Wow...so you were being serious. OK, lets go through the movies. You want to know how the movies established Rhodey as an important person to Tony, right? So, just some small examples from each film.


Iron Man: Rhodey is who Tony calls when he's in trouble. Aside from Pepper, he is the first one Tony reveals his identity to. The relationship is shown to be more than just acquaintances or business connections through little details like the custom ringtones, the banter, and Rhodes' access to Tony's house.

Iron Man 2: Well, Rhodey and Tony are built up throughout this movie. From the senate committee, where Rhodey apologizes for being there, then does his best to protect Tony. Then you have the scene where Rhodey sees that Tony is dying, where he reaches out "You don't have to do this lone gunslinger act." Which leads to Rhodey trying to step in and put an end to Tony's self-destructive behavior at the party. Then, of course, there's the end, with the whole struggle between the two.

Iron Man 3: I'm not even going to go into this, as it's pure buddy partnership whenever they're on the screen together. Heck, by this time, Rhodey is so firmly established as Tony's closest friend, it's ridiculous.

Ultron: Rhodey doesn't get too much screentime here, but the banter between the two is still present. Furthermore, when the two are in combat together, it so clearly flows, reinforcing the relationship between them.

Civil War: The big thing here is that Pepper and Tony are on the rocks. This defines Rhodey as Tony's partner. There is no other way to look at it. The previous movies show that where Tony goes, Rhodey supports, and this one has it going the other way. These are long-time friends, a relationship that is older than ANY other in the movie save for one. So, yeah, when Rhodey is blasted out of the sky, it has weight.


As for a thematic reason...are you serious? Did you not get that the theme of the entire movie centered on the consequences of the Avengers' actions? That all they were talking about over and over and over was collateral damage? Billions of dollars in damage, loss of life, etc. Tony is only an observer to the personal price when he speaks with the woman at the elevator. There are warnings again and again and again that if they continue down this path, a huge price will be paid. Rhodey getting shot down makes Tony no longer just an observer, it brings it home.

As for why it was Vision that took the shot, that's made obvious as well. He delivers one of the clearest warnings on the chosen course of action, AND he repeats that warning just before the shot. The movie hammers the viewer over the head with it, just in case they didn't catch it the first time. "Hey, remember this? You're going to need this fresh in your mind to fully grasp what we're doing here!" Movies do this all the time, it's part of good storytelling.

So, yeah, thematically, it fits.


edit: You asked why we don't follow up with Vision...the melancholy shot of him at the chess set in the empty room says it all. It shows how he was affected by what happened and how his world was effected. Don't need any more than that because, well, it's not his story.
 
Very enjoyable movie. I think I liked Winter Soldier a little more, but this is definitely a crowd pleaser too. Never would have expected Captain America to turn out such a wonderful trilogy of films. I love the character in the comics, so it's a treat to see him done so well on the big screen.

Peter Parker won me over instantly. Even just his voice, it's perfect.

Loved Black Panther, especially his last scene before the credits. He realized that he made a mistake, and owned up to it. The conversation with Zemo was so well done. And I know a lot of writers would have been tempted to have BP let Zemo kill himself but he didn't...because that wouldn't be justice. That's why these people are heroes.
 
Something I haven't seen being discussed is the validity of T'Challa's bloodlust. There has been plenty of discussion over whether or not Tony was overreacting to the footage and if his sudden burst of murderous rage was believable. We don't get anyone questioning the immediate response by T'Challa after seeing his father die in front of him. Is that simply due to the immediacy of king T'Chaka's death on screen or a product of Boseman's performance? Downey was on point this entire movie, so I definitely thought his acting sold it. And much like T'Challa cradling his dad's corpse, Tony literally just watched his dad's face get caved in and his mother get choked out on screen. We're talking about a guy who we're told point blank spent over $600 million to develop a way to try and get over the sudden death of his parents solely because he wishes his last moments with them had gone about differently. He developed a goddamn VR room for personalized therapy. And then he sees them merked right in front of him.

That's when Tony officially hit "fuck it." T'Challa hit that point as well earlier in the film. It's not as if T'Challa wasn't aware Barnes had a history of operating as a brainwashed Hydra agent just like Tony. The news even referred to Bucky by his full name alongside the Winter Soldier alias. The history of Sergeant Barnes and his life as the Winter Soldier is common knowledge. T'Challa could fuckin' google that shit if he wanted to, it'd be like looking up the history of FDR. He even acknowledges Steve is defending Bucky motivated by friendship. And yet T'Challa declaring a murder mission is accepted immediately it seems.

The only difference between the two is T'Challa has had a lot more time to process his immediate shock and grief. Tony had to relive that incident because what he saw on screen completely shattered his perception of his parent's death, an event he had moments before thought of as an accident, not an assassination and a heist. Both stood in front of their father's actual killer for the first time. Instead of immediately transferring his anger from Bucky to Zemo, T'Challa takes a moment to think about his quest for vengeance and the resulting cost. His subsequent choice based on that introspection gives the movie its moral, an understanding that seeking revenge ultimately leads to self destruction. Tony didn't have the luxury of getting to confront his father's killer twice, though he did have years to accept that his parents were dead.

I love my parents dearly. If I saw them murdered in front of me, I'd sure as fuck go after the guy who just did it. That's not to say that if you don't feel the same way, you don't love your parents enough or even that your parents deserve that kind of affection from you (some people are fucking atrocious parents). Everyone would react at least a little differently. I'm pretty sure I'd lash out in rage immediately like both of them did.
 
Something I haven't seen being discussed is the validity of T'Challa's bloodlust. There has been plenty of discussion over whether or not Tony was overreacting to the footage and if his sudden burst of murderous rage was believable. We don't get anyone questioning the immediate response by T'Challa after seeing his father die in front of him. Is that simply due to the immediacy of king T'Chaka's death on screen or a product of Boseman's performance? Downey was on point this entire movie, so I definitely thought his acting sold it. And much like T'Challa cradling his dad's corpse, Tony literally just watched his dad's face get caved in and his mother get choked out on screen. We're talking about a guy who we're told point blank spent over $600 million to develop a way to try and get over the sudden death of his parents solely because he wishes his last moments with them had gone about differently. He developed a goddamn VR room for personalized therapy. And then he sees them merked right in front of him.

That's when Tony officially hit "fuck it." T'Challa hit that point as well earlier in the film. It's not as if T'Challa wasn't aware Barnes had a history of operating as a brainwashed Hydra agent just like Tony. The news even referred to Bucky by his full name alongside the Winter Soldier alias. The history of Sergeant Barnes and his life as the Winter Soldier is common knowledge. T'Challa could fuckin' google that shit if he wanted to, it'd be like looking up the history of FDR. He even acknowledges Steve is defending Bucky motivated by friendship. And yet T'Challa declaring a murder mission is accepted immediately it seems.

The only difference between the two is T'Challa has had a lot more time to process his immediate shock and grief. Tony had to relive that incident because what he saw on screen completely shattered his perception of his parent's death, an event he had moments before thought of as an accident, not an assassination and a heist. Both stood in front of their father's actual killer for the first time. Instead of immediately transferring his anger from Bucky to Zemo, T'Challa takes a moment to think about his quest for vengeance and the resulting cost. His subsequent choice based on that introspection gives the movie its moral, an understanding that seeking revenge ultimately leads to self destruction. Tony didn't have the luxury of getting to confront his father's killer twice, though he did have years to accept that his parents were dead.

I love my parents dearly. If I saw them murdered in front of me, I'd sure as fuck go after the guy who just did it. That's not to say that if you don't feel the same way, you don't love your parents enough or even that your parents deserve that kind of affection from you (some people are fucking atrocious parents). Everyone would react at least a little differently. I'm pretty sure I'd lash out in rage immediately like both of them did.

I think it helps that T'Challa is willing to compromise. When the authorities show up, he doesn't ignore them and continue trying to rip Bucky apart. When they have him imprisoned, he doesn't try to break in and murder him in his cell. He's not being unreasonable; he's willing to let justice be carried out, rather than just blindly chasing revenge, and the ending is an excellent capstone to that.
 
Just watched that movie the other day, thought it was rather mediocre, especially as far as the plot is concerned. There's no real strong positions worth fighting for (UN or independent ? That's just administrative considerations) and none of the plans make sense.
Zemo could have just sent Stark everything he discovered from the leaks and let him find the proof by himself, it would have been easier and just as effective.
 
I think it helps that T'Challa is willing to compromise. When the authorities show up, he doesn't ignore them and continue trying to rip Bucky apart. When they have him imprisoned, he doesn't try to break in and murder him in his cell. He's not being unreasonable; he's willing to let justice be carried out, rather than just blindly chasing revenge, and the ending is an excellent capstone to that.

Absolutely but you also know for a fact he would have gutted Bucky if no one had intervened. He's also willing to fight Cap to get to his target.

Just watched that movie the other day, thought it was rather mediocre, especially as far as the plot is concerned. There's no real strong positions worth fighting for (UN or independent ? That's just administrative considerations) and none of the plans make sense.
Zemo could have just sent Stark everything he discovered from the leaks and let him find the proof by himself, it would have been easier and just as effective.

Zemo needed to flush Bucky out. He had no proof, just a probable hunch and no Bucky. What the fuck is that going to do? It's going to get your enemies to goddamn talk and come to an understanding. He couldn't do anything without first at least getting Bucky captured by framing him. After that point, tipping off Stark would lead to questioning which would lead to prolonged talks and again, eventual understanding. It's not like Stark would have at that point walked up to Bucky's cell and put a bullet in his head. He'd question Bucky thoroughly to assess the validity of the accusation but he still wouldn't be allowed by the UN or Wakandan government to execute him on the spot. He would have been well guarded. T'Challa was able to process his grief before making the right decision, Tony never got that opportunity.
 
Just watched that movie the other day, thought it was rather mediocre, especially as far as the plot is concerned. There's no real strong positions worth fighting for (UN or independent ? That's just administrative considerations) and none of the plans make sense.
Zemo could have just sent Stark everything he discovered from the leaks and let him find the proof by himself, it would have been easier and just as effective.

Zemo didn't have the video until he accessed the bunker.
 
Zemo didn't have the video until he accessed the bunker.

He didn't really need the video. If he was sure enough that proof existed, then it wouldn't have been difficult to convince Stark too. And Stark would have found the video and flushed out Bucky by himself. The whole point isn't even in Stark killing Bucky anyway, but learning that Rogers knew.
 
He didn't really need the video. If he was sure enough that proof existed, then it wouldn't have been difficult to convince Stark too. And Stark would have found the video and flushed out Bucky by himself. The whole point isn't even in Stark killing Bucky anyway, but learning that Rogers knew.
Yeah, I think it's the double whammy that does it. Knowing that cap had been protecting the dude that killed his folks is just very twisted. I feel his aggression wasn't well made though, he could have shot Steve in the leg with a laser and then go Bucky but they have to find a way to make sure cap stops him from committing murder
 
He didn't really need the video. If he was sure enough that proof existed, then it wouldn't have been difficult to convince Stark too. And Stark would have found the video and flushed out Bucky by himself. The whole point isn't even in Stark killing Bucky anyway, but learning that Rogers knew.

They'd been hunting Bucky for over 2 years already.
 
He didn't really need the video. If he was sure enough that proof existed, then it wouldn't have been difficult to convince Stark too. And Stark would have found the video and flushed out Bucky by himself. The whole point isn't even in Stark killing Bucky anyway, but learning that Rogers knew.

What? Yes it is.
 
How the fuck did this and BVS have the same plot? Civil war did it better though. Casualties and parents bullshit.

I like'em both. CW as a movie is better but I like somethings that BvS did better. At the end of it all I got to see video game Batman, Giant-man, Superman get nuked, Black Panther kick ass, the Hawkeye/Ant-man arrow, Batman beat up Superman, trinity team up, Wonder Woman kick ass, Spider-man vs well a lot of people, and whole lot of other things in live action that I didn't think I would ever see.

I'm good.
 
Zemo doesn't give a shit about Bucky. All he wants is to destroy the Avengers through discorde. Whether Bucky lives or not (or is even found) is irrelevant, as long as Stark and Rogers stop trusting each other.

His plan isn't just to get them to stop trusting each other but to force them into killing each other. Getting Tony to kill Cap's best friend is a pretty good way of achieving that goal.
 
[*]Finally time was a bit messed up at the end. In the time it took Cap to reach Russia, Iron man was able to arrest everyone, take care of War Machine, go home, visit the sea prison, then get to Russia at the same time as Cap!
[/list]

I never realized this. Honest trailer material.
 
Zemo doesn't give a shit about Bucky. All he wants is to destroy the Avengers through discorde. Whether Bucky lives or not (or is even found) is irrelevant, as long as Stark and Rogers stop trusting each other.

Unless I misread you, isn't manipulating Stark into killing Bucky a major part of "destroy[ing] the Avengers through discorde"?
 
Yeah, there's quite a bit of convenient time dilation at the end. I get that they needed the "36 hours" mandate to drive home the fact that Tony doesn't really have time to just hear Cap out and see through the business in Russia before turning him in, and generally just to create dramatic pressure, but as soon as I heard it everything after that point kind of had the thought of "is this really a constructive use of your time?" underneath.

It creates a scenario where everything happening in the run up to the airport scene and beyond feels like it's deeply rooted in "DBZ Time".
 
Unless I misread you, isn't manipulating Stark into killing Bucky a major part of "destroy[ing] the Avengers through discorde"?

That's one way of doing it, although one that requires a lot of complex and uncertain scheming (finding and torturing spies, planting a bomb and pretending to be someone else, find a secret base and trick multiple people to follow him, hoping for them to kill each other,...).
In the end Zemo seemed quite happy with a conclusion where nobody died and everybody gets to know the truth. Which he could have attained by sharing his discoveries with Stark from the beginning, and he wouldn't even have broken the law at any time.
 
What was effective about him? You mentioned Pepper and Tony's relationships. You have yet to show how the movie framed Rhodey to be someone to care for except that, you know, he's Tony's BFF. This is, literally, anime level.

What reason is there for Vision to shoot at them? Tony says shoot him down but thematically and story wise this seems like
you're a bellend
God damn you suck at spoilers. Say what the spoiler relates to if its nothing to do with the thread topic.
 
It's not average, just solid. Compare it to Mad Max: Fury Road where they're comparable on RT and you will know there's a difference in quality there. Yes, Civil War does things right IE there's reasons for X to occur but they're not particularly done well, they're just done for the sake of the movie.

The final fight was unneeded. Tony battling with his idea of control and saying no to Zemo's plan would have been far better for the character instead of trying to murder Bucky as the fight scene adds nothing to his character at all. Was a good time for a character moment to let RDJ act like he cares again.

It shows that, in the moment, Tony will choose vengeance over rationality. It shows that for all his ego, snark, and grandstanding, he can be pushed over the edge.

By contrast, Black Panther learned to let go of vengeance. This is good, as he is supposed to be the wiser and nobler of the heroes. He learned his lesson, Tony did not.
 
It's crazy when you realize that none of this shit would've happened if it weren't for Wanda.

Her giving Tony that vision in AoU just started a spiral of events that are STILL in effect.

She singlehandedly fucked up the MCU.

Nonsense, even if you cut out wanda from the opening scene, stark still finds the scepter, which then leads to him finding the "AI" inside it, which solves his ultron problem; wanda is a complete and utter non-factor.
 
Something I haven't seen being discussed is the validity of T'Challa's bloodlust. There has been plenty of discussion over whether or not Tony was overreacting to the footage and if his sudden burst of murderous rage was believable. We don't get anyone questioning the immediate response by T'Challa after seeing his father die in front of him. Is that simply due to the immediacy of king T'Chaka's death on screen or a product of Boseman's performance? Downey was on point this entire movie, so I definitely thought his acting sold it. And much like T'Challa cradling his dad's corpse, Tony literally just watched his dad's face get caved in and his mother get choked out on screen. We're talking about a guy who we're told point blank spent over $600 million to develop a way to try and get over the sudden death of his parents solely because he wishes his last moments with them had gone about differently. He developed a goddamn VR room for personalized therapy. And then he sees them merked right in front of him.

That's when Tony officially hit "fuck it." T'Challa hit that point as well earlier in the film. It's not as if T'Challa wasn't aware Barnes had a history of operating as a brainwashed Hydra agent just like Tony. The news even referred to Bucky by his full name alongside the Winter Soldier alias. The history of Sergeant Barnes and his life as the Winter Soldier is common knowledge. T'Challa could fuckin' google that shit if he wanted to, it'd be like looking up the history of FDR. He even acknowledges Steve is defending Bucky motivated by friendship. And yet T'Challa declaring a murder mission is accepted immediately it seems.

The only difference between the two is T'Challa has had a lot more time to process his immediate shock and grief. Tony had to relive that incident because what he saw on screen completely shattered his perception of his parent's death, an event he had moments before thought of as an accident, not an assassination and a heist. Both stood in front of their father's actual killer for the first time. Instead of immediately transferring his anger from Bucky to Zemo, T'Challa takes a moment to think about his quest for vengeance and the resulting cost. His subsequent choice based on that introspection gives the movie its moral, an understanding that seeking revenge ultimately leads to self destruction. Tony didn't have the luxury of getting to confront his father's killer twice, though he did have years to accept that his parents were dead.

I love my parents dearly. If I saw them murdered in front of me, I'd sure as fuck go after the guy who just did it. That's not to say that if you don't feel the same way, you don't love your parents enough or even that your parents deserve that kind of affection from you (some people are fucking atrocious parents). Everyone would react at least a little differently. I'm pretty sure I'd lash out in rage immediately like both of them did.
I mean, i feel like there's something to say about the difference in time here for sure. T'Challa saw his dad dead in front of him days ago. Tony has had decades to come to terms with it.

As for a "validity," I find the comparison to how T'Challa acted towards Zemo and how Tony acted towards Bucky to be extremely interesting and important.
 
But Tony didn't have decades to come to terms with the revelation that his parents were not only murdered but murdered brutally in cold blood by the guy standing next to you. Add to that betrayal by Cap a man Tony has gone to war with and trusted.

T'challa also has the benefit that his last interaction with his father was a full on proud passing of the torch while Tony was a jerk to his parents. T'challa also got to see what vengeance is doing to Tony.
 
Something I haven't seen being discussed is the validity of T'Challa's bloodlust. There has been plenty of discussion over whether or not Tony was overreacting to the footage and if his sudden burst of murderous rage was believable. We don't get anyone questioning the immediate response by T'Challa after seeing his father die in front of him. Is that simply due to the immediacy of king T'Chaka's death on screen or a product of Boseman's performance? Downey was on point this entire movie, so I definitely thought his acting sold it. And much like T'Challa cradling his dad's corpse, Tony literally just watched his dad's face get caved in and his mother get choked out on screen. We're talking about a guy who we're told point blank spent over $600 million to develop a way to try and get over the sudden death of his parents solely because he wishes his last moments with them had gone about differently. He developed a goddamn VR room for personalized therapy. And then he sees them merked right in front of him.

That's when Tony officially hit "fuck it." T'Challa hit that point as well earlier in the film. It's not as if T'Challa wasn't aware Barnes had a history of operating as a brainwashed Hydra agent just like Tony. The news even referred to Bucky by his full name alongside the Winter Soldier alias. The history of Sergeant Barnes and his life as the Winter Soldier is common knowledge. T'Challa could fuckin' google that shit if he wanted to, it'd be like looking up the history of FDR. He even acknowledges Steve is defending Bucky motivated by friendship. And yet T'Challa declaring a murder mission is accepted immediately it seems.

The only difference between the two is T'Challa has had a lot more time to process his immediate shock and grief. Tony had to relive that incident because what he saw on screen completely shattered his perception of his parent's death, an event he had moments before thought of as an accident, not an assassination and a heist. Both stood in front of their father's actual killer for the first time. Instead of immediately transferring his anger from Bucky to Zemo, T'Challa takes a moment to think about his quest for vengeance and the resulting cost. His subsequent choice based on that introspection gives the movie its moral, an understanding that seeking revenge ultimately leads to self destruction. Tony didn't have the luxury of getting to confront his father's killer twice, though he did have years to accept that his parents were dead.

I love my parents dearly. If I saw them murdered in front of me, I'd sure as fuck go after the guy who just did it. That's not to say that if you don't feel the same way, you don't love your parents enough or even that your parents deserve that kind of affection from you (some people are fucking atrocious parents). Everyone would react at least a little differently. I'm pretty sure I'd lash out in rage immediately like both of them did.

I think the parallel of BP and Tonys respective paths in the movie is probably the one that most people miss at first. Primarily because they don't truly hit symmetry until the very last scenes of the movie.

T'Challa's desire to kill Bucky is less debatable, I think, because it IS fresh. It just happened. I mean, I completely expect T'Challa to still be dealing with the loss of his Father in his solo movie. So it's much more understandable that he could react in such an extreme way initially.

Stark though.. having roughly 25 years to process the death of his parents... and to have their deaths never brought up as having had a reverberating impact on Tony (until literally one scene in this movie done specifically to remedy that)... his reaction just doesn't feel earned to me. I think it's that the reaction isn't anger but seething rage. It's such a massive emotion and it's not something you see from Tony previously and I just feel that the groundwork isn't there to make it feel earned.

It would be like Cap going into a rage if Sharon was hurt sometime after the kiss scene. It's like... ok well we know they're into each other because they kissed but there hasn't been an on screen history there at all so Cap going all rage mode doesn't mesh well. That's how I feel about the MIT Speech scene for Tony. That the content of the speech itself was there to make up for the fact that Tonys feelings about his parents death really weren't ever touched on previously in the MCU. And that one scene just isn't enough to make the rage and hatred and bitterness work to me.
 
4th week run in Australia and the theatre is still 3/4 full. Additional observation:

* Really like the expression on Cap and Wanda's face when the explosion hit the building. It was one of those moments that just so shocking that you can't help but being speechless momentarily.

* I find Rhodey to be annoying this time around. Giving judgmental look to Widow when Hulk was shown causing destruction in NY, arguing with Sam about how Sam is nothing in comparison to Ross with his medal of Honor, being shirty at Cap in Bucharest, calling him a criminal, and later asking Vision to shoot Sam.

* The whole Accord and government are fucked up. When Cap asks Everett Ross when Bucky will get a lawyer, he just laughed. No wonder Cap ended up going harder and harder against both elements.

* People were worried that Bucky will job to everyone but the truth is he's either equal or can easily overpower them, especially in the Winter Soldier mode. The only people he can't win against easily are Spider-Man and Scarlet Witch.

* Tony tries real hard to reach out to Steve. Even to the point of being a guarantor so Steve and Sam don't have to go to jail after their first major shenanigans. He even offered that Bucky is transferred to a mental hospital instead of jail. Steve shouldn't have gone mad over Wanda. Tony knows how to play PR and politic and would have been able to quell the fire.

* At the same time, T'challa's threat to kill Bucky likely also hanging over Steve's mind. Then the escalation with Zemo happened and there's no going back from there.

* Wanda is capable of controlling Vision's gem during their first confrontation, suggesting that she has the potential to be a major player in Infinity War.

* Tony tries to reach out again to Cap at the Airport, pointing out that it's better that he deals with them than people who'd shot first, ask question later. Cap remains stubborn that even as a fan I couldn't help but being frustrated. He really reminds me of someone I used to know.

* Scarlet Witch is insanely OP at the airport. She drops car onto Tony, slams Black Widow, Black Panther, and War Machine onto hard surfaces with ease. Vision doesn't get involved at first because Tony wanted to go easy on Cap at first until Cap threw a truck courtesy of Ant Man.

* Rhodey is the one who asked Vision to shoot at Sam and not Tony. Despite the request to turn him into glider, Sam could have died if he didn't evade. In a way, it's a case of what goes around comes around for Rhodey.

* There's something highly disturbing about the scene that happens in-between Bucky getting his arm looped off and Cap charging at Tony resulting in the cover pose. I think it's the music. It's amplifying the tension.

* I could hear some audiences sobbing at this point in time too. It's weird that I'm more disturbed this time around by the scene as well. I think it's the realization that these are former friends who now beating each other without compunction. My first time watching this I was just too shocked to think.
 
* I find Rhodey to be annoying this time around. Giving judgmental look to Widow when Hulk was shown causing destruction in NY, arguing with Sam about how Sam is nothing in comparison to Ross with his medal of Honor, being shirty at Cap in Bucharest, calling him a criminal, and later asking Vision to shoot Sam.

I saw it as concern. Everyone knew Natasha and Bruce were a thing and then he left her after she sort of broke them up by refusing to run away with her and then pushing him off a cliff.
 
* I could hear some audiences sobbing at this point in time too. It's weird that I'm more disturbed this time around by the scene as well. I think it's the realization that these are former friends who now beating each other without compunction. My first time watching this I was just too shocked to think.
I need to rewatch it, because I think it would hit me harder on a second viewing.
* I find Rhodey to be annoying this time around. Giving judgmental look to Widow when Hulk was shown causing destruction in NY, arguing with Sam about how Sam is nothing in comparison to Ross with his medal of Honor, being shirty at Cap in Bucharest, calling him a criminal, and later asking Vision to shoot Sam.
Wait, he actually said that? What a POS.

My hate for the man grows. Kill 'im.
 
What I really liked about Zemo is how he hit the Avengers exactly in their weak spot. In the first Avengers, we see how the team is a ragtag gang of superpowered ego trippers. They only come together united against a common enemy and a common purpose.
Age of Ultron shows how well they operate in unison when things go well, but also how fast things unravel as soon as the going get tough. But again, common enemy so they overcome their differences for the greater good.

Civil War doesn't have that big world threatening enemy, and that's exactly what Zemo's plan rides on. Without a common cause to strive for, no banner to rally behind, their differences will instigate more and more friction, and eventually conflict.
 
* Tony tries real hard to reach out to Steve. Even to the point of being a guarantor so Steve and Sam don't have to go to jail after their first major shenanigans. He even offered that Bucky is transferred to a mental hospital instead of jail. Steve shouldn't have gone mad over Wanda. Tony knows how to play PR and politic and would have been able to quell the fire.

Poor choice of words on Tony's part. Worse is no time to cool down to talk again as that's when things go to shit.

* Tony tries to reach out again to Cap at the Airport, pointing out that it's better that he deals with them than people who'd shot first, ask question later. Cap remains stubborn that even as a fan I couldn't help but being frustrated. He really reminds me of someone I used to know.

He didn't really ''reach out'' to Cap. Tony was under the gun from Ross was bringing them in.

Tony: Anyway, Ross gave me 36 hours to bring you in. That was 24 hours ago - can you help a brother out?

Cap: You're after the wrong guy.

Tony: Your judgment is askew. Your old war buddy killed innocent people yesterday-

Cap: And there are five more super soldiers out there just like him. Can't let the doctor find them first Tony, I can't.

Natasha: Steve, you know what's about to happen. Do you really want to punch your way out of this one.

Steve looks around at them.

Tony: Alright, I've run out of patience. Underoos!

Tony doesn't give anymore thought to it or to hear him out. The only real olive branch that Tony was giving was that it was they who were coming after them rather than J-SOC who would open fire on them.

* Scarlet Witch is insanely OP at the airport. She drops car onto Tony, slams Black Widow, Black Panther, and War Machine onto hard surfaces with ease. Vision doesn't get involved at first because Tony wanted to go easy on Cap at first until Cap threw a truck courtesy of Ant Man.

That was really awesome, wasn't it. Loved the glare Steve gave Scott when Scott mentioned he thought the truck he had was a water truck.

* I could hear some audiences sobbing at this point in time too. It's weird that I'm more disturbed this time around by the scene as well. I think it's the realization that these are former friends who now beating each other without compunction. My first time watching this I was just too shocked to think.

Heard that had been a reaction at a lot of places. Really good job with Marvel building these two up and hitting this point.

Also, just out curiosity for New York City Gaf. Any reactions to Steve asking Spidey where he was from and then his response to Peter's answer?

Wait, he actually said that? What a POS.

If I remember correctly, it was that Ross had a certain number of Congressional Medal of Honor's and points out to Sam that it's "One more than you have".
 
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