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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos

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Nope, if you read my previous comments, you will see that I did in fact say both were right and wrong. Both are right but the way they go about it has huge flaws which the film tries to potray very well. but if you think of it in real world scenario, Tony's argument actually has 1% advantage over Cap because even real life military work with that.

By signing the accords, they can still avenge but with limitations and accountability. Those doesn't mean if Aliens invade, they will suddenly wait for the Government to approve before they move, they are super beings so they will go without the government anyways and they can hire lawyers to defend themselves later. But heres the flaw with Steve, he is a soldier, not a person with diplomatic skills. He sees it as punch your way in and out for what is right which isn't really wrong, it is just a bit one dimensional. Again both are right and wrong but I think Cap could do better to trust his colleagues than take the selfish moral high ground at great cost to his other friends

Really not following you at all - so they should sign the accords until such time that they need to disagree with them and then break the accords and hire lawyers?

This is better than simply saying I don't agree with the accords, so I won't sign them, because that is the "selfish moral high-ground"?

I think what Tosyn is saying here is that the world needs some assurance from the Avengers (an independent but seemingly American backed organisation), and that the Accords can give that to them in the current political turmoil.

Signing the accords and agreeing to work within them is a show of faith/political olive branch on the part of the Avengers. Like most political agreements. the subtleties of the Accords' exact terms can be negotiated over time (as acknowledged in the film - eg, having Wanda reinstated.). If a truly important incident occurs and the Avengers intervene prior to getting dispatch or approval it will be bad, but they can make their case for it after to defend their actions.

This could still cause trouble, but is better than refusing to agree with the request coming from 117 nations and then just doing what they do anyway. the end result on their part might be the same - but the politics around are more stable if they agree to work within the framework.

You are on better ground to plead your case if you are seen as agreeing to the rules and break them as a one-off rather than being seen as rogues/non-compliant who do their own thing and don't answer to anyone.
— correct me if I'm wrong on this Tosyn.
 
As I stated previously, I think Team Tony is the right answer.

Cap was a complete dick to Tony all the time.

Plus, the emotional push at the ending towards Howard and the shield ownership was a perfect ending on how it came to a full circle.

Hold your butts:

latest
 
Yeah, I am team Tony for sure, as far as the whole team thing goes. But I wouldn't call Cap an idiot. Tony is mostly a long term guy, planning ahead and estimating possible outcomes. Cap is reactionary, he sees people (unrightfully) in danger and decides to do something about it, directly and without hesitation. Both are admirable traits in their own way. And that is why I am team #both, since there is now a team of unofficial Avengers capable of acting outside the law without compromising the official Avengers. And given the nature of world politics, I think that team is necessary as well. And Cap is definitely the right guy to lead such a team.

Can't wait to inevitably see them kicking ass together again, to actually save the world instead of threatening it or mainly fixing their own mess. That time will come in the Infinity Stone films, when the outside threats return.
I actually agree that it is brilliant story arc in the sense of getting the world of the official Avengers away from the cross-hairs of the governments. In that sense, they can act outside the law without reprisal and they can if necessary act within the law without much public noise. Cap isn't an idiot, sorry I take that back but obviously you get what I meant by that when I say he is one dimensional in his views. Ultimately though, I think the next Avengers will be glorious, on one hand you have the hero the world deserves but doesn't want and the one it doesn't deserve but wants
 
You make it seem like Tony is an idiot when in fact it is Steve that is more of an idiot by modern standards. Steve is a man from the 1940s stuck in different time. Tony has given the middle finger to the government many times over and he knows signing the accords isn't meaning they cannot bend the law ever but in effect avoiding a war with 117 countries. In case it isn't clear, by not signing, you are in effect the enemy of 117 countries (USA, RUSSIA, NIGERIA, WAKANDA, UK, GERMANY....add every other country to fill)

I'm not saying Tony is an idiot, I think he overreacted, like everything;
- he sees his weapons in the hands of terrorists, stops weapon manufacturing
- he sees the team getting killed by a second wave of Chitauri, he wants to build a suit of armor around the world, creates the Ultron-program and injects an alien AI to power it

He does so with the best intentions, but he's a tinkerer, build first, fix faults and errors later.

There could be a form of government oversight where there's accountability after the fact. The Avengers operate as they always have, and account for their actions afterwards to the nations in question. They can still operate wherever and however they want, however, they need to consider the consequences. That's a form of accords Steve would've signed in a heartbeat.

The accords in their current form make the Avengers a special forces strike team to NATO, which is far from ideal in Steve's eyes, and he's right. We've seen various situations in the real world where the UN should intervene but couldn't because the government of the nation involved refused help and situations where NATO has intervened but due to ridiculous bureaucracy and / or rules of engagement ended up as a paper tiger in a warzone (Srebenica for example).

I get why Tony would want to sign these accords in their current form because he thinks it's better than no oversight at all, and there's something to be said for that, because after all, it's understandable the world's governments get a little shaky when there's a private military force operating without any kind of accountability of oversight, while there are people dying under their watch. And I get that he's ready to sign these and work out the details later, because that's how Tony operates, get things done quickly, fill out the details later, his various suits are a perfect example of that, most significantly the Mark 2; get the fundamentals in order, work out the kinks as they come along.

On the other hand, I also understand Steve's position. Steve has a strong sense of right and wrong, as do all Avengers, and he feels he doesn't need a governing body to tell him when and how to act. Nor does he need someone to tell him he messed up, he knows when he messed up and he deals with that every single time. "In this job, you try to save as many people as you can. Sometimes, that doesn't mean everyone." is a strong line that captures his way of thinking, Cap is a soldier, someone who recognizes that when you go to war, people will die. And he will try his very best to minimize casualties, especially civilian, but sometimes there's no way around that. And remember the very first mission Cap took was a rogue mission, against orders, to go behind enemy lines and retrieve Bucky and the other POWs held by HYDRA. After the mission, he was ready to face whatever consequences there were, because he knew he did the right thing. His CO just didn't know yet that rescueing those POWs was the right thing to do.

Being the enemy to 117 countries wouldn't exactly be novel either, technically speaking, before the Accords, they were already enemies of said countries. They entered Sokovia without permission I assume and while I'm not sure about Sokovia's membership to the UN or NATO, being a foreign combatant in a country is an act of war. If Sokovia is indeed a UN or NATO member, it's automatically an act of war against the entire UN or NATO, making each member of the Avengers a wanted man/woman/android. Yet, each of these countries would be grateful if the Avengers would swoop in and save them from a second Chitauri invasion. So I wouldn't worry too much about that "enemy of 117 nations" thingy if I were Cap.
 
You know, I don't think Black Panther would have actually killed Bucky. He was trying to capture him to get answers. In the airport scene, when Bucky says he didn't do it, BP's response was "then why did you run?"

Nah BP was shown about to rip bucky's throat out, wanda saved him. "why did you run"? was more like "why you lying?".

So how exactly would that change if Steve did sign? Because Bucky would still be a wanted criminal in the absence of evidence.

The difference is they would keep him because then the UN could make the operation seem legit and hold him, not signing means surrendering him to wakanda.

And you think Tony is also going to fold his arms while Bucky gets killed because hes that cruel?

Well...yes, stark doesn't really care about bucky at this point, all he cares about is keeping the avengers together. Him folding his arms and doing nothing is exactly what the accords require of him, "active duty non-combatant" as he puts it himself. And even if he did try to do something, there is no guarantee he can keep bucky out of wakanda while he tries to be all diplomatic and broker a deal.

He is only arrested if he violates the law and continues with his vigilantism. Like every other person in the world.

Which is a given because cap isn't going to sit on his ass while the same oversight that wants to keep him in check, wants to murder bucky; even if he signed, there's no way in fucksville he'd not intervene regardless.
 
N how would they get arrested, who will arrest them?

Well let's go to the movie for an answer - the Avengers that did sign the accords. OR if Ross had his way, attack squads.

This is a strange rabbit-hole to go down. Let's not conflate real world with MCU. In the real world I'd be terrified of super-humans with no oversight. In the MCU, I absolutely trust Cap's decision making over Tony's OR any governing body.

Tony specifically avoided telling the Avengers his plan for Ultron because he didn't want to put up with the vetting process. Oversight bodies in the MCU have 1) ordered a nuclear strike on New York (Avengers) and 2) been infiltrated by Hydra (TWS). The MCU has set up Cap to very much not want oversight and Tony to very much want it.
 
Well...yes, stark doesn't really care about bucky at this point, all he cares about is keeping the avengers together. Him folding his arms and doing nothing is exactly what the accords require of him. And even if he did try to do something, there is no guarantee he can keep bucky out of wakanda while he tries to be all diplomatic and broker a deal.

Except Tony doesn't behave like that during the movie. There's plenty of instances where he could have folded his arms but didn't.

Both are just too emotionally involved and both make mistakes.
 
Really?

As stated by webs himself he's only been active for six months as Spider-Man. That means he's a sixteen year old boy who, if they keep Parker's origin intact, never had any serious training before and was reading all the time. Or fiddeling around with junk. For someone untrained and still actively discovering his powers he put up one hell of a fight. Him stopping Bucky's punch is one thing and pretty impressive, but he held his own against most of the heroes who have combat training or have a better grasp of their powers.

If anything, Spider-Man shows a huge amount of potential and will pose a threat for anyone facing him in the future.

I agree, this Spidey will be a total beast after some proper training and experience.
 
Except Tony doesn't behave like that during the movie. There's plenty of instances where he could have folded his arms but didn't.

Both are just too emotionally involved and both make mistakes.

What plenty of moments? He only does something when he realises he had a giant ego and was wrong, and only when FRIDAY brought it to his attention.
And even when he goes to help cap, he says he'd rather not that ross knows that he's there, accords and all that shit.
 
I take it back, the soundtrack is okay. The "Civil War" theme that fires up as they cross the airfield is pretty sweet and dramatic.

Yeah, I'm partial to the refrain that appears at the beginning of the 'Standoff' in the soundtrack.

But I don't think it really gets a moment to shine like with 'Taking a Stand' in The Winter Soldier.
 
What plenty of moments? He only does something when he realises he had a giant ego and was wrong, and only when FRIDAY brought it to his attention.
And even when he goes to help cap, he says he'd rather not that ross knows that he's there, accords and all that shit.
I think you personally dislike Stark rather than actually trying to be objective here. His ego plays a big part rather than the facts of what he did and it is understandable. Lots of people hate Stark because of his ego, but that dislike clouds their judgement that he is actually a good guy
 
Well let's go to the movie for an answer - the Avengers that did sign the accords. OR if Ross had his way, attack squads.

This is a strange rabbit-hole to go down. Let's not conflate real world with MCU. In the real world I'd be terrified of super-humans with no oversight. In the MCU, I absolutely trust Cap's decision making over Tony's OR any governing body.

Tony specifically avoided telling the Avengers his plan for Ultron because he didn't want to put up with the vetting process. Oversight bodies in the MCU have 1) ordered a nuclear strike on New York (Avengers) and 2) been infiltrated by Hydra (TWS). The MCU has set up Cap to very much not want oversight and Tony to very much want it.
That is actually a great point. But even in the MCU, how would the normal citizens of the MCU be able to trust Captain America's judgement??
 
I think you personally dislike Stark rather than actually trying to be objective here. His ego plays a big part rather than the facts of what he did and it is understandable. Lots of people hate Stark because of his ego, but that dislike clouds their judgement that he is actually a good guy

Lol, yes even though my arguments come from what literally happens on screen, I have some deep personal grudge against stark.

I don't.
 
I'm not saying Tony is an idiot, I think he overreacted, like everything;
- he sees his weapons in the hands of terrorists, stops weapon manufacturing
- he sees the team getting killed by a second wave of Chitauri, he wants to build a suit of armor around the world, creates the Ultron-program and injects an alien AI to power it

He does so with the best intentions, but he's a tinkerer, build first, fix faults and errors later.

There could be a form of government oversight where there's accountability after the fact. The Avengers operate as they always have, and account for their actions afterwards to the nations in question. They can still operate wherever and however they want, however, they need to consider the consequences. That's a form of accords Steve would've signed in a heartbeat.

The accords in their current form make the Avengers a special forces strike team to NATO, which is far from ideal in Steve's eyes, and he's right. We've seen various situations in the real world where the UN should intervene but couldn't because the government of the nation involved refused help and situations where NATO has intervened but due to ridiculous bureaucracy and / or rules of engagement ended up as a paper tiger in a warzone (Srebenica for example).

I get why Tony would want to sign these accords in their current form because he thinks it's better than no oversight at all, and there's something to be said for that, because after all, it's understandable the world's governments get a little shaky when there's a private military force operating without any kind of accountability of oversight, while there are people dying under their watch. And I get that he's ready to sign these and work out the details later, because that's how Tony operates, get things done quickly, fill out the details later, his various suits are a perfect example of that, most significantly the Mark 2; get the fundamentals in order, work out the kinks as they come along.

On the other hand, I also understand Steve's position. Steve has a strong sense of right and wrong, as do all Avengers, and he feels he doesn't need a governing body to tell him when and how to act. Nor does he need someone to tell him he messed up, he knows when he messed up and he deals with that every single time. "In this job, you try to save as many people as you can. Sometimes, that doesn't mean everyone." is a strong line that captures his way of thinking, Cap is a soldier, someone who recognizes that when you go to war, people will die. And he will try his very best to minimize casualties, especially civilian, but sometimes there's no way around that. And remember the very first mission Cap took was a rogue mission, against orders, to go behind enemy lines and retrieve Bucky and the other POWs held by HYDRA. After the mission, he was ready to face whatever consequences there were, because he knew he did the right thing. His CO just didn't know yet that rescueing those POWs was the right thing to do.

Being the enemy to 117 countries wouldn't exactly be novel either, technically speaking, before the Accords, they were already enemies of said countries. They entered Sokovia without permission I assume and while I'm not sure about Sokovia's membership to the UN or NATO, being a foreign combatant in a country is an act of war. If Sokovia is indeed a UN or NATO member, it's automatically an act of war against the entire UN or NATO, making each member of the Avengers a wanted man/woman/android. Yet, each of these countries would be grateful if the Avengers would swoop in and save them from a second Chitauri invasion. So I wouldn't worry too much about that "enemy of 117 nations" thingy if I were Cap.
Now this is a balanced argument and it points to what I had initially said, it shows the good and flaws in both sides. Tony has the flaw of tinkering with things to the point of making bad decisions. Captain takes the moral high ground no matter the cost, while both types of character are good with intentions, the way their arc plays out can be dangerously arrogant and selfish
 
What plenty of moments? He only does something when he realises he had a giant ego and was wrong, and only when FRIDAY brought it to his attention.
And even when he goes to help cap, he says he'd rather not that ross knows that he's there, accords and all that shit.

When Bucky escapes Ross tells Stark going after them it's not their job. Tony asking for time to bring them in is him not folding his arms, and he goes with every intention of having them back and still solving a situation where Cap is aiding a suspected terrorist in the most reasonable way still. Cap is just too emotionally involved with Bucky to think straight. The right thing to do would be to go back by themselves, even if they "didn't believe" the story.

That's literally Tony not folding his arms. And I'm not saying that he did it right either, but it's also not the worst way to go about it and let Ross's special forces go after them instead.
 
Oh my God you remember Scorch too.

Was that the only episode of Agents of SHIELD where Melinda May spoke Cantonese?

Hell if I know, I stopped watching because I saw Winter Soldier a month in advance and it totally fucked my schedule up

I remember Scorch because he torched the shit out of that doctor chick and I was like 'wtf ABC, chill out'
 
Lol, yes even though my arguments come from what literally happens on screen, I have some deep personal grudge against stark.

I don't.
Lots of his decsions were not based on ego, if anything at all, a refrain from his previous decisions which are also seen as an ego trip. So saying ego means he doesn't care for what happens to Bucky or whatever isn't being objective but rather character assassinating. His ego is prominent, yes but his decisions aren't a direct reflection of that, the opposite actually.
 
When Bucky escapes Ross tells Stark going after them it's not their job. Tony asking for time to bring them in is him not folding his arms, and he goes with every intention of having them back and still solving a situation where Cap is aiding a suspected terrorist in the most reasonable way still.

That's literally Tony not folding his arms.

Cap is his friend, bucky isn't, cap didn't bomb the UN, bucky "did", Stark has no reason to go any extra mile for bucky and he doesn't, not until he finds out he's wrong.

Lots of his decsions were not based on ego, if anything at all, a refrain from his previous decisions which are also seen as an ego trip. So saying ego means he doesn't care for what happens to Bucky or whatever isn't being objective but rather character assassinating. His ego is prominent, yes but his decisions aren't a direct reflection of that, the opposite actually.

Widow calls him out on his giant ego because of instead of trusting the judgment of his friend and teammate, who's signed the accords and is on his side, he resorts to petty low blows with the "double agent" comment and informs ross of her "betrayal".
Stark isn't stark without his ego, it's always present, even when making decisions.
 
I think you personally dislike Stark rather than actually trying to be objective here. His ego plays a big part rather than the facts of what he did and it is understandable. Lots of people hate Stark because of his ego, but that dislike clouds their judgement that he is actually a good guy

I know this wasn't to me - but Tony is not the villain here and that is the great thing about this movie. The "villain" won and fractured the team by playing on the "weaknesses" of the heroes.

That is actually a great point. But even in the MCU, how would the normal citizens of the MCU be able to trust Captain America's judgement??

That is the same discussion they are having on the WHIH Newsfront "discussion". Who's to blame and should there be oversight. New one released today regarding Ross BTW.

MCU citizens are probably split as clearly without the Avengers, things go much worse in New York and Washington DC.
 
I know this wasn't to me - but Tony is not the villain here and that is the great thing about this movie. The "villain" won and fractured the team by playing on the "weaknesses" of the heroes.

Yup.

Although a schism was inevitable at this point and these are guys with very strong personalities.
 
I think what Tosyn is saying here is that the world needs some assurance from the Avengers (an independent but seemingly American backed organisation), and that the Accords can give that to them in the current political turmoil.

Signing the accords and agreeing to work within them is a show of faith/political olive branch on the part of the Avengers. Like most political agreements. the subtleties of the Accords' exact terms can be negotiated over time (as acknowledged in the film - eg, having Wanda reinstated.). If a truly important incident occurs and the Avengers intervene prior to getting dispatch or approval it will be bad, but they can make their case for it after to defend their actions.

This could still cause trouble, but is better than refusing to agree with the request coming from 117 nations and then just doing what they do anyway. the end result on their part might be the same - but the politics around are more stable if they agree to work within the framework.

You are on better ground to plead your case if you are seen as agreeing to the rules and break them as a one-off rather than being seen as rogues/non-compliant who do their own thing and don't answer to anyone.
— correct me if I'm wrong on this Tosyn.
You are correct
 
Team Cap and Team Iron Man are both right and wrong. That's why this movie is great since the sides can be split like this unlike the comic book version where you'd have to be a real dickhead to be Team Iron Man.

Therefore since I can't choose sides I am now on Team Thanos.
 
Really?

As stated by webs himself he's only been active for six months as Spider-Man. That means he's a sixteen year old boy who, if they keep Parker's origin intact, never had any serious training before and was reading all the time. Or fiddeling around with junk. For someone untrained and still actively discovering his powers he put up one hell of a fight. Him stopping Bucky's punch is one thing and pretty impressive, but he held his own against most of the heroes who have combat training or have a better grasp of their powers.

If anything, Spider-Man shows a huge amount of potential and will pose a threat for anyone facing him in the future.

The fight against Cap showed that. He even compliments " you have a lot of heart kid"
 
Really?

As stated by webs himself he's only been active for six months as Spider-Man. That means he's a sixteen year old boy who, if they keep Parker's origin intact, never had any serious training before and was reading all the time. Or fiddeling around with junk. For someone untrained and still actively discovering his powers he put up one hell of a fight. Him stopping Bucky's punch is one thing and pretty impressive, but he held his own against most of the heroes who have combat training or have a better grasp of their powers.

If anything, Spider-Man shows a huge amount of potential and will pose a threat for anyone facing him in the future.

As he should be.

Spider-Man is a menace!
 
Team Cap and Team Iron Man are both right and wrong. That's why this movie is great since the sides can be split like this unlike the comic book version where you'd have to be a real dickhead to be Team Iron Man.

Therefore since I can't choose sides I am now on Team Thanos.

hm4iWrN.gif
 
So Tony has basically been part-villain in the past two movies right? At least, his ego. Like if they really wanted to make a play at keeping the world safe, they should just lock him a cave for eternity? Ultron was him. The man tried to kill Bucky for something he must've known he had no control over. Yeah kick the shit out of him, but murder both Bucky and Cap? Tony is probably the least rational personal on the team besides Hulk.

Spider-man was... I grew up with the Tobey Macguire spidey and the cartoon where they were all college-aged. That's all I can say. Different strokes.

And how did the Sokolovan guy know that Tony would be at the compound alongside Cap and Bucky? Why not just put the video of his parents death on youtube or send him a snapchat? Fucking hell, just write a note to Tony at the beginning of the movie stating, "Hey, did Cap tell you Bucky killed your parents? If not, you should totes ask him about that."
 
Highlight of the film was Vision trying to murder Falcon without giving a single fuck. Paul Bettany is so absurdly perfect in that role.

Rhodes says something to Vision along the lines of "I've got him on my tail, take out the thruster pack and turn it into a glider" (because if anyone is capable of that level of precision it would be Vision). Wilson manages to dodge it and because he was directly pursuing Rhodes, him moving out of the way means the beam hit Rhoses instead.

I wouldn't call that "murder without giving a fuck", but hey po-tay-to/po-tah-to.

So Tony has basically been part-villain in the past two movies right? At least, his ego. Like if they really wanted to make a play at keeping the world safe, they should just lock him a cave for eternity? Ultron was him. The man tried to kill Bucky for something he must've known he had no control over. Yeah kick the shit out of him, but murder both Bucky and Cap? Tony is probably the least rational personal on the team besides Hulk.

"Villain" is a stretch. Ultron was on him and he recognises that, thats a large part of his motivation for this film and he wants to make amends for that through the Accords.

I'll give you him wanting to take out Bucky after seeing him kill his parents, but I wouldn't say at any point he was trying to murder Cap. None of the main characters apart from BP wanting revenge on WS and Tony after the WS video was trying to kill anyone else tbh.
 
Fucking hell



Which is silly because he didn't even do anything to Wanda

He was even on the same team!

Vision forgetting he could phase when Wanda attacked him was my second favourite part of this film. My third favourite was Vision phasing through Ant Man and trying to crush Cap/Bucky.

ETA - If Vision hit Falcon with that beam, Falcon would be dead before he started falling. He blew a hole in an arc reactor, that hits flesh and there's going to be bits of Falcon flying everywhere.
 
So Tony has basically been part-villain in the past two movies right? At least, his ego. Like if they really wanted to make a play at keeping the world safe, they should just lock him a cave for eternity? Ultron was him. The man tried to kill Bucky for something he must've known he had no control over. Yeah kick the shit out of him, but murder both Bucky and Cap? Tony is probably the least rational personal on the team besides Hulk.

Spider-man was... I grew up with the Tobey Macguire spidey and the cartoon where they were all college-aged. That's all I can say. Different strokes.

And how did the Sokolovan guy know that Tony would be at the compound alongside Cap and Bucky? Why not just put the video of his parents death on youtube or send him a snapchat? Fucking hell, just write a note to Tony at the beginning of the movie stating, "Hey, did Cap tell you Bucky killed your parents? If not, you should totes ask him about that."

With Spider-Man: Homecoming, Tony could change and be inspired by Peter of his sense of responsibility and selflessness.
 
So Tony has basically been part-villain in the past two movies right? At least, his ego. Like if they really wanted to make a play at keeping the world safe, they should just lock him a cave for eternity? Ultron was him. The man tried to kill Bucky for something he must've known he had no control over. Yeah kick the shit out of him, but murder both Bucky and Cap? Tony is probably the least rational personal on the team besides Hulk.

Spider-man was... I grew up with the Tobey Macguire spidey and the cartoon where they were all college-aged. That's all I can say. Different strokes.

And how did the Sokolovan guy know that Tony would be at the compound alongside Cap and Bucky? Why not just put the video of his parents death on youtube or send him a snapchat? Fucking hell, just write a note to Tony at the beginning of the movie saying "Hey did Cap tell you Bucky killed your parents? If not, you should totes ask him about that."

Tony creating Ultron in the MCU has mostly been hand-waived at.

The set-up for the final fight was pure Hollywood, but the payoff was worth it. Plus, I love Cap, but he's out-classed by Iron Man suit with air-superiority. Fight between them had to be somewhere where Cap could keep it close quarters.
 
Vision forgetting he could phase when Wanda attacked him was my second favourite part of this film. My third favourite was Vision phasing through Ant Man and trying to crush Cap/Bucky.

ETA - If Vision hit Falcon with that beam, Falcon would be dead before he started falling. He blew a hole in an arc reactor, that hits flesh and there's going to be bits of Falcon flying everywhere.
What are you talking about? He was trying to block access to the plane, not crush them. Did people watch this movie high? lol..
 
Tony creating Ultron in the MCU has mostly been hand-waived at.

The set-up for the final fight was pure Hollywood, but the payoff was worth it. Plus, I love Cap, but he's out-classed by Iron Man suit with air-superiority. Fight between them had to be somewhere where Cap could keep it close quarters.

I found the movie as a whole entertaining (and much more so than AoU), but story-wise, everything just felt so meaningless.
 
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