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[DenogginizerOS]

I wish DF did more analysis of the sound differences between the two versions. I would love to see the numbers on the DTS and Dolby tracks.

 

[dark10x]

Absolutely. If you stand perfectly still you can see an obvious "handheld camera" effect. It doesn't bother me but I can see how it could easily nauseate some people.

It looks good with a high framerate, but shakey cam + unsteady framerate = blargh

 

[Stallion Free]

Pre-recorded cutscenes blow. Complete waste of space in general. I would rather devs have an in-game cutscene that doesn't look quite a pretty rather than a pre-render any day of the week. I feel bitter every time I see a 720p pre-render video in a PC port.

 

[TTP]

We have video evidence of you playing Kung Fu Rider.

Had to for the greater good :/

 

[jett]

I wish DF did more analysis of the sound differences between the two versions. I would love to see the numbers on the DTS and Dolby tracks.

They never do that. First time I see them detail "sound support", even, and they don't even bother to mention it in their conclusions.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

They never do that. First time I see them detail "sound support", even, and they don't even bother to mention it in their conclusions.

I was looking on my box last night and could not find the DTS logo anywhere but I did see "Dolby Digital". I really love DTS, and I wish Sony and developers handled the soundtrack recognition/selection better. One more reason I love Naughty Dog and think they are the best PS3 developer by a country mile.

 

[chris0701]

I haven't had any problem with the quality, but nearly 8 gigs for an hour of 720p video is crazy.

wow.

Even better than most 720p Blu-ray movie rip.

 

[androvsky]

wow.

Super 720p BDRip quailty cut-scene confirmed.:lol :lol

We wish. They used Bink on both platforms. Why, I don't know. Is h.264 too CPU intensive for the 360 if the game has to run background tasks during the cutscenes?

 

[alr1ght]

wow.

Even better than most 720p Blu-ray movie rip.

well, I was emphasizing Bink's shittiness. The quality they're pushing could easily get into the 3 GB range with H264.

 

[Pooya]

I haven't had any problem with the quality, but nearly 8 gigs for an hour of 720p video is crazy.

yeah, with 8GB and H.264 you can have 1 hour (or more) of video at 1080p and include DTS audio track and get nearly perfect image quality, bink is just ridiculous :lol .

 

[chris0701]

We wish. They used Bink on both platforms. Why, I don't know. Is h.264 too CPU intensive for the 360 if the game has to run background tasks during the cutscenes?

Do GOW 3 and UC 2 also use BINK for pre-render videos?

 

[ScrabbleBanshee]

I was looking on my box last night and could not find the DTS logo anywhere but I did see "Dolby Digital". I really love DTS, and I wish Sony and developers handled the soundtrack recognition/selection better. One more reason I love Naughty Dog and think they are the best PS3 developer by a country mile.

Who cares about DTS when you have LPCM?

Edit: You have to care about DTS if your receiver doesn't do audio over HDMI and you're stuck using toslink.

 

[dark10x]

Pre-recorded cutscenes blow. Complete waste of space in general. I would rather devs have an in-game cutscene that doesn't look quite a pretty rather than a pre-render any day of the week. I feel bitter every time I see a 720p pre-render video in a PC port.

It should be noted that a LOT of the scenes in this game ARE actually realtime.

 

[chris0701]

It should be noted that a LOT of the scenes in this game ARE actually realtime.

Just curious, does all cut-scene in demo are real-time?

The transformation effect for game pausing is amazing.

 

[jett]

Do GOW 3 and UC 2 also use BINK for pre-render videos?

Fuck no.

 

[Stallion Free]

It should be noted that a LOT of the scenes in this game ARE actually realtime.

Yeah, it should be all. Then again, the real time ones drop to 15 fps and it can be felt. There was at least one in the demo where I felt like the framerate dropped to 5

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Who cares about DTS when you have LPCM?

True.

 

[Kagari]

I haven't had any problem with the quality, but nearly 8 gigs for an hour of 720p video is crazy.

Eh, they've got the space, they might as well use it.

 

[Blimblim]

Bink has the gigantic advantage of being very optimized for console operations, not too cpu intensive, and more importantly very easy to use and integrate in a game.
For example all the little hand-drawn animations in Castlevania you see when when browsing the different combos are bink encoded, and can be integrated perfectly because bink supports an alpha channel, something that your usual movie codec won't.

 

[androvsky]

Does anyone know how music and sound effects are stored in the typical modern game? I'm assuming they're almost always compressed as they sit on disc, and only decompressed for playback / mixing. While a lossless transmission of originally compressed audio is better than lossy, I doubt many games truly have lossless audio.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Does anyone know how music and sound effects are stored in the typical modern game? I'm assuming they're almost always compressed as they sit on disc, and only decompressed for playback / mixing. While a lossless transmission of originally compressed audio is better than lossy, I doubt many games truly have lossless audio.

I am wondering this as well. I thought Castlevania lacked the punch that many PS3 games have.

 

[see5harp]

They never do that. First time I see them detail "sound support", even, and they don't even bother to mention it in their conclusions.

Actually they've been doing it for a while.

 

[Pooya]

Bink has the gigantic advantage of being very optimized for console operations, not too cpu intensive, and more importantly very easy to use and integrate in a game.
For example all the little hand-drawn animations in Castlevania you see when when browsing the different combos are bink encoded, and can be integrated perfectly because bink supports an alpha channel, something that your usual movie codec won't.

absolutely, but it's far from ideal for cinematic cutscenes, where quality is the priority, for in game videos, like say a monitor in a game is displaying something or menus it's perfect, that why I said someone should come up with a better middle-ware, H.264 is just a codec not a middle-ware anyone can integrate in their engines with support from provider and documentations.

Eh, they've got the space, they might as well use it.

It's not about space, it's about efficiency, with 7.5GB they've could done a LOT better, 1080p even, specially on PS3, they haven't used that space efficiently in anyway.

Does anyone know how music and sound effects are stored in the typical modern game? I'm assuming they're almost always compressed as they sit on disc, and only decompressed for playback / mixing. While a lossless transmission of originally compressed audio is better than lossy, I doubt many games truly have lossless audio.

For cutscenes that are Bink video here, they are most certainly encoded in RAD game tools audio codec (forgot the name). for other sound effects and voices I believe ogg is quite common, no idea about Castlevania.

EDIT:
http://www.radgametools.com/binkhmab.htm

Sound compression level: The Sound compression level controls how much audio compression Bink applies. Bink's powerful audio codec is capable of up to 10 to 1 compression in perceptually lossless mode (which basically means you can save a ton of space in your audio tracks without hearing any compression artifacts). Bink compresses 44Khz data the best, and because it compresses the data so well, you should just get used to leaving 11 and 22 Khz behind. Bink still supports 11 and 22 Khz, but the compression ratios are lower (3 to 1 and 5 to 1). Quality level 4 is perceptually lossless on most files, and many files can even use a setting of 5 or 6. Settings of 9 and higher get pretty noisy.

 

[dark10x]

Yeah, it should be all. Then again, the real time ones drop to 15 fps and it can be felt. There was at least one in the demo where I felt like the framerate dropped to 5

Actually, based on the DF video, the lowest framerate in that cutscene was 14 fps on 360 and 16 fps on PS3 (the exact wolf scene you're thinking of).

 

[forrest]

Actually, based on the DF video, the lowest framerate in that cutscene was 14 fps on 360 and 16 fps on PS3 (the exact wolf scene you're thinking of).

Where can I find the Digital Foundry Castlevania video? Their website is less than helpful in terms of finding videogame comparison videos.

 

[brain_stew]

Very few console games even run at 60fps, majority of industry seems to struggle with even getting steady 30fps. Why do some of you even bother with consoles if it's such a bother to you? I just don't see how you could even enjoy the consoles when so little of it reaches 60fps.

To pretend that a game that barely manages to stay above 25fps during gameplay is somehow "par for the course" on consoles, is frankly, pathetic. The framerate here is much worse than your average console game, no two ways around that, its horrific even for people that are happy with a mostly stable 30fps (and that includes me). Prolonged periods of gameplay at ~20fps was barely acceptable in the N64 days and it sure as shit isn't in 2010.

 

[dark10x]

Where can I find the Digital Foundry Castlevania video? Their website is less than helpful in terms of finding videogame comparison videos.

It's part of the main article.

To pretend that a game that barely manages to stay above 25fps during gameplay is somehow "par for the course" on consoles, is frankly, pathetic. The framerate here is much worse than your average console game, no two ways around that, its horrific even for people that are happy with a mostly stable 30fps. Prolonged periods of gameplay at ~20fps was barely acceptable in the N64 days and it sure as shit isn't in 2010.

Pretty much. It's really really bad.

 

[ScrabbleBanshee]

To pretend that a game that barely manages to stay above 25fps during gameplay is somehow "par for the course" on consoles, is frankly, pathetic. The framerate here is much worse than your average console game, no two ways around that, its horrific even for people that are happy with a mostly stable 30fps. Prolonged periods of gameplay at ~20fps was barely acceptable in the N64 days and it sure as shit isn't in 2010.

You're certainly right if you're talking about a 2010 console playing an N64 quality game. Framerate doesn't sell console games and probably never will, pretty pictures do.

Who knows, maybe we will get a magical patch that makes it 20% better but I doubt it.

 

[forrest]

It's part of the main article.

I am here.

http://www.digitalfoundry.org/

I'm not seeing any main article.

 

[Totobeni]

We wish. They used Bink on both platforms. Why, I don't know.

I kinda understand them using this on 360 , but why on PS3 too ? it's not this game only , I saw many multiplat games using Bink shit on PS3 , it's really disgusting.

 

[Blimblim]

absolutely, but it's far from ideal for cinematic cutscenes, where quality is the priority, for in game videos, like say a monitor in a game is displaying something or menus it's perfect, that why I said someone should come up with a better middle-ware, H.264 is just a codec not a middle-ware anyone can integrate in their engines with support from provider and documentations.

Keep in mind that the devs already had to pay for the Bink license, and would then also have to pay for the H.264 license to the MPEG LA patent pool too. Bink costs $7500 per game, whatever the sales, MPEG LA is said to be per seat, so it would cost the dev for each game sold, which would be highly costly for a big title like this one.

 

[brain_stew]

This was posted by the game's producer on Twitter: -


http://twitter.com/CastlevaniaLOS/status/25974512564

Eurogamer used review code for the face-off.

Yeah, keep on dreaming! :lol

 

[brain_stew]

Keep in mind that the devs already had to pay for the Bink license, and would then also have to pay for the H.264 license to the MPEG LA patent pool too. Bink costs $7500 per game, whatever the sales, MPEG LA is said to be per seat, so it would cost the dev for each game sold, which would be highly costly for a big title like this one.

What about VC1? Isn't that free on the 360?

 

[Pooya]

Keep in mind that the devs already had to pay for the Bink license, and would then also have to pay for the H.264 license to the MPEG LA patent pool too. Bink costs $7500 per game, whatever the sales, MPEG LA is said to be per seat, so it would cost the dev for each game sold, which would be highly costly for a big title like this one.

so a new middle-ware that replaces bink for all purposes is the ideal situation for everyone like I said, pay once for everything not twice .

 

[dark10x]

I am here.

http://www.digitalfoundry.org/

I'm not seeing any main article.

What we are talking about is part of the eurogamer.net site.

Go to Eurogamer and click on Digital Foundry along the side for the article.

 

[forrest]

I am here.

http://www.digitalfoundry.org/

I'm not seeing any main article.

Nevermind, found it. I never knew DF comparisons were hosted at Eurogamer. For anyone else not in the know, here is the link.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-face-off

 

[Blimblim]

What about VC1? Isn't that free on the 360?

Usually these licenses are on a usage basis, so while both the PS3 and the 360 have VC1 and H.264 licenses for their video playback components, I don't think this same license applies to the game themselves.
If Microsoft is the sole patent holder in VC1 (I really don't know, VC1 licensing is also handled by MPEG LA) then I guess they could license it for free for game usage on the 360.

so a new middle-ware that replaces bink for all purposes is the ideal situation for everyone like I said, pay once for everything not twice .

Bink works on about every gaming platform on the planet, including portable consoles. Becoming a licensed middleware developer for all these platforms would be difficult, and also quite costly.

 

[skyfinch]

24fps AND you have to swap discs on the Xbox? Nice! I'm off to the store right now. :lol

 

[manzo]

And I fucking ordered the Xbox version since I was impatient. God damn it.

 

[Kagari]

And I fucking ordered the Xbox version since I was impatient. God damn it.

Return it and get the version you want instead? It's not that difficult.

 

[2real4tv]

edit: ignore sorry lttp

 

[owlbeak]

24fps AND you have to swap discs on the Xbox? Nice! I'm off to the store right now. :lol

Pretty sure you can install both discs, negating the need to swap discs from what I've been told.

I bought it on 360 purely because the sixaxis is a terrible controller and I hate it with every fiber of my being.

 

[Spike]

From the DF face-off regarding the 360 install:

Now you might think that having both discs installed to HDD would allow for no swapping at all, but that wasn't the case when we reached chapter six, and it wasn't the case when we immediately went back to the previous level. In both cases the disc needed to be inserted even though we had all the data immediately to hand on the HDD.

WTF?!?!

 

[skyfinch]

Pretty sure you can install both discs, negating the need to swap discs from what I've been told.

I'm reading the opposite.

 

[SlasherJPC]

From the DF face-off regarding the 360 install:



WTF?!?!

You know I thought someone had said if you had both discs installed you could play the entire game from disc 2. So I did just that and when I went to play, it insisted I insert disc 1. So is there some confusion on this or something?

 

[Spike]

Heh, I was typing up my post when Horsebite posted his, so I didn't even see his.

I cannot believe that they make you swap discs when you have the game fully installed on the HDD. That is pretty pathetic.

 

[Spike]

You know I thought someone had said if you had both discs installed you could play the entire game from disc 2. So I did just that and when I went to play, it insisted I insert disc 1. So is there some confusion on this or something?

Does the same for me, so it looks like David Cox wasn't entirely truthful.

 

[-viper-]

edit: ignore sorry lttp

There is no link. He made it up. KZ2 is rendered at 720p at all times.

Unless, he is talking about the 'effects'. In which case he would be right, I think.

 

[Totobeni]

From the DF face-off regarding the 360 install:



WTF?!?!

I think it's just same as ME2 when you still need both Discs even with full install of both ( I remember switching to Disc #1 for the last mission too )

 

[WickedLaharl]

You know I thought someone had said if you had both discs installed you could play the entire game from disc 2. So I did just that and when I went to play, it insisted I insert disc 1. So is there some confusion on this or something?

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258080

He revealed that the first LOS Xbox disc will offer an install option on the in-game menu, allowing gamers to play the full title off the second disc.

maybe the feature was cut at the last minute or there was some miscommunication. either way cox should have said something about it before the games release.