Ban Puncher
Member
B-b-but I bought Dodonpachi Saidaioujou LE!
It's getting delivered on Monday!
It's getting delivered on Monday!
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CAVE restructured - No more dedicated divisions, but not quite dead yet
- Thread starter @MUWANdo
- Start date
Well at least we can count on them doing some more. And, well, you know, anytime Treasure releases a shooter they are always so good that they are either the crown jewels of the genre (Ikaruga) or they outright make entire genres obsolete (Sin & Punishment).
Alcoholikaust
Member
I'd say it was good they released that cave box, however, making it uber limited and expensive really alienated the fans
goodbye Cave thanks for the great games, you will be missed
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I am fucking devastated.
My Dodonpachi Saidaioujou shipping notice was earlier this day ;_;
My Dodonpachi Saidaioujou shipping notice was earlier this day ;_;
Augemitbutter
Member
i think Akai Katana sold like 5000 copies first week in japan. i don't know how they didn't hear the warning shot back then.
There's no money in retail Wii or PS3 shmups, the sales of those prove that (check out any Grev or Milestone release on those platforms). Cave went with the 360 because that's where the shmup crowd was. That's common knowledge. They went with retail releases because they could sell them for 7000 yen (regular) or 10,000 yen (limited edition) a pop, and they sold quite well, for the first few years. Deathsmiles, Deathsmiles II, and Mushihimesama Futari each sold over 30,000 in Japan. They experimented with DD with Guwange and Nin2 Jump, but both sold very poorly and did not even make enough to recover their development costs, so they abandoned that. They also tried putting some of their games on Games on Demand, but those similarly sold very poorly so they abandoned that as well. A lot of people here wanted them to put their games up on Steam, XBLA or PSN for $5 but they clearly did not think that was the most financially viable option for them.
The console division in Cave was a small part of the entire company, unlike a company like Grev that only does console/arcade games. While they did some great things, they also made some very poor choices. For example, Instant Brain was a huge waste of time and money that seems to have crippled the division. Cave thought it would sell well and it sold like crap. That coupled with the declining arcade market makes this news unsurprising.
The console division in Cave was a small part of the entire company, unlike a company like Grev that only does console/arcade games. While they did some great things, they also made some very poor choices. For example, Instant Brain was a huge waste of time and money that seems to have crippled the division. Cave thought it would sell well and it sold like crap. That coupled with the declining arcade market makes this news unsurprising.
Doesn't that just goes to show what a mistake Cave made by ignoring the worldwide market?
Gradius V was a Treasure game, too.
The shoot 'em up community basically chose the 360 not the other way around.
Also having the games sell for as little as €10 in Europe didn't seem to help a damn thing.
And when they were on the PS2, they didn't do any better either.
It's not so much the price or system as the way overall gamers taste has turned to dogshit in the past decade.
The problem with that is that they are a very small company, developing niche games and that multi platform development would have cost them a lot of money, quite possibly more than they would ever make back. If anything, it might have killed them off sooner.
Hours Left
Member
I've seen this gif many times, but that's the most fake door I've ever seen. Are you even trying producers?!?!
No, they could have made even less money going for el cheapo DD releases. Grev tried DD releases with Strania, and they said it sold about the same as their retail releases, but for a fraction of the cost, so they lost a lot of money on it. As a result, they switched back to doing retail releases. XBLA and PSN are not the cash cows you might think, unless you have a break out hit it can be difficult to pull a profit on them. And Cave did not ignore the worldwide market. Three of their X360 games got international localizations, they released Deathsmiles II on the North American Games on Demand, and they made many of their Japanese shmups region free just so foreigners could play them.
Delusibeta
Banned
No, because the worldwide market is similarly small, given how badly the localised versions and NinJump & Gunwage sold.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Love how people come in, claim games would have sold better on psn/xbla/steam whatever and localized. Meanwhile there is one game on xbla and 3 localized games and several region free ones. The games available in west are even sold at budget price. Shows how much interested the "non-elite" has in these games: None.
R.I.P Cave.
R.I.P Cave.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Welp, there goes Xbone lineup in Japan.
Sad times. Not unexpected, but still sad times.
I really wish that Ketsui and Mushi HD weren't locked. I bought everything else of theirs that I could, shooter wise.
"Make entire genres obsolete". What the fuck.
I really wish that Ketsui and Mushi HD weren't locked. I bought everything else of theirs that I could, shooter wise.
Please go make or post in another thread if you want to fellate Treasure.
"Make entire genres obsolete". What the fuck.
I don't think existing STG fans are really annoyed by the idea of more people playing STGs, the issue is that people immediately dismiss them for being "outdated" or "overpriced" or "poor value" now matter how much (or how little) they charge, no matter the distribution method, no matter the platform.
Shows how many games they released on non-MS consoles / handhelds: None.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Yeah.
Shit like this is honestly annoying. Blaming consumers for rejecting their games is totally dumb. It was Cave's responsibility to sell their games to consumers and to increase the base playing their games and they failed. That on ain't anybody else, certainly not people who enjoy buying games.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Ketsui is coming to PS3
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
PlayStation 2 and DS is none? :>
...This thread went straight into the "Scrolling shooters don't deserve retail releases and should be $10 or less!" gutter I figured it would.
wouldn't help them sell widescreen TVs wasn't "PS3 quality", despite Mihara's willingness to have it ready as a launch title.
All PS3 STG ports so far have had 16:9 modes that eliminate the black bars or wallpapers a vertically-oriented game would have on a widescreen television. Creating a special "wide mode" would only have been a reasonable option for Akai Katana and Deathsmiles.
But it doesn't matter. Whole lotta talk, but when it's time for action the wallets stay shut.
I don't know if Cave ever tried themselves, but SCEJ refused Arika's Ketsui port on the grounds that it
All PS3 STG ports so far have had 16:9 modes that eliminate the black bars or wallpapers a vertically-oriented game would have on a widescreen television. Creating a special "wide mode" would only have been a reasonable option for Akai Katana and Deathsmiles.
Yup. Deathsmiles is available for $17 right now. (I've seen it as low as $10.) Akai Katana is $15. I paid $12 to import my copy of DDP:R.
But it doesn't matter. Whole lotta talk, but when it's time for action the wallets stay shut.
bodyboarder
Member
Sad news.
I would have bought more on 360 if they weren't region locked.
I would have bought more on 360 if they weren't region locked.
Augemitbutter
Member
they didn't even try. all those games were on xbox. it's not the first choice if you are a fan of japanese games for most people.
IrishNinja
Member
for real, this is horrible news. RIP Cave
cmon man, let's not kick em while they're down
cmon man, let's not kick em while they're down
^Yeah, fuck that.
Well, they tried with this one:
Wasn't worth it in the end it seems. Sales wise it least.
And again, they chose the PS2 last gen. Didn't help either.
Well, they tried with this one:
Wasn't worth it in the end it seems. Sales wise it least.
And again, they chose the PS2 last gen. Didn't help either.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Blame Sony for not wanting 2D games in the early years of the PS3. The audience gathered on 360 then.
I thought it would be obvious that I was talking about this generation.
I really don't get why they chose the 360. I'd have thought the PS3 made far more sense. It actually has a working d-pad, for one. The Wii sold like crazy and also had a decent d-pad. The 3DS and Vita are both starved for shumps and, again, the Vita has an incredible d-pad. Yeah, people should play these with sticks, I get that. The PS3 supports a broader range of sticks than the 360. It's also region free.
Ugh, it just doesn't make sense to me. They went with, as far as I can see, the least suitable platform available.
IrishNinja
Member
brera usually nintendo threads are ripe for your brand of stupidity, but it's really not needed here man
seriously, wish the employees well and keep it movin', no need to be fully in character here
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It made a kind of sense... 360 hosted an entire niche of super Japanese genres. Something about its obscurity in Japan lent itself to carving out a unique position.
Should have been multiplatform, YES, but 360 was actually quite a home to Japanese shmups.
So what is the 3DS?
Do we know the exact details of that?
For the broader audience though, importing a Japanese 360 just wasn't going to happen. Especially given the early failure rate.
"Next gen" (this gets so confusing at the turn of the gen) along with Vita, PS4, Xbone.
There used to be details of it in Japanese from Mihara, but they're hard to find these days. They date back to like 2005 or 2006.
But, essentially, Sony scared off all 2D shooter developers by rejecting Mihara's attempt to port Ketsui and saying that they weren't PS3 quality games.
Sorry man,
I just would have liked some DDP goodness this gen.
Their iOS stuff was top notch even with the touch controls
IrishNinja
Member
fair enough...i wish we knew why they didn't port to more places (vita would've shined with some've their input)
YOU MONSTER
Old interview from 2011 with Caves game development manager Makoto Asada:
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/11/1...and-how-to-make-xbox-360-successful-in-japan/
The most concerning quote. Remember, this interview was conducted six years after the 360 launched:
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/11/1...and-how-to-make-xbox-360-successful-in-japan/
The most concerning quote. Remember, this interview was conducted six years after the 360 launched: