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CBOAT: ESRAM handicap for now, but will get better

Jburton said:
I know it's hard but MS design by committee really fucked the thing up.

More Expensive, harder to developer for and always weaker.

Cerny created a far better machine, it's clear to see.
Click to expand...

Lets wait to actually see both devices and the games running before saying they really fucked up, there's still a lot that's unknown :)
 
godelsmetric said:
You mean just like the Wii and PS Vita?

Lets not kid ourselves here, the 'power' of the core gamer to influence sales is definitely hit and miss, and I'm inclined to call it more correlation than causation. I think the price tag will have more to do with the Xbone's impending floppage than will core gamers leaving it for dead.
Click to expand...

Exactly this point I was making, Sony came in with both Angles,
1) Better system for games and hardware in General gives you more scope for future SOFTWARE choices and appeases the hardcore Gaming nation.

2) Cheaper price to attract the massmarket Mum's and Dad's out to get little Timmy his next distraction toy. Aided in some small level by Word of mouth from 1 that will help push 2 further in.
 
I trust CBOAT.

I think he says a few important things 1: that the games will be good at 720p and 900p. If the main difference we're seeing in most multiplats is resolution, then I'm going to be very happy I bought a PS4, but I'm not going to be surprised if plenty of people are happy at 720p and 900p.

This not going away. Well why would we expect it to? The PS3 was more powerful, but multiplatform games never overtook the 360 ones. The gap narrowed somewhat, but the 360 stayed ahead.

We should never expect the Xbox One version of games to be as close to PS4 versions as PS3 versions of multiplatform games are to Xbox 360 now at the end of this gen.

But it's still an upgrade! The Xbox One may not compare favorably to the PS4 in head to heads, but we're seeing native 720p as a floor, and we're seeing higher resolutions more often than we saw on 360 (too early to say that about PS3, but I'm sure we'll see more games above 720p on Xbox One than PS3 had).

Forza, a game that was 720p and 60 fps last gen is showing up at 1080p and 60.
Crytek's last game was sub 720p and 30 fps. Their new one on Xbox One is 900p and 30 fps.
Numerous basketball games last gen were 1080p. The new one on Xbox One is 1080p.
No fighting games were above 720p and 60fps. Killer Instinct is at 720p native and 60 fps.

It's not as good as we were hoping, but without the PS4 making it look bad, I don't think there'd be nearly as much panicking. I wouldn't be surprised if when architecting the Xbox One and in making the decisions that are keeping most games at sub 1080p, that Microsoft honestly thought 720p or 900p would be good enough for most people.

And they probably will be.

But don't buy an Xbox One over a PS4 if it's important to you to be able to play the best console version of a multiplatform game.
 
Tobor said:
Price is the biggest factor, no doubt. I'm just saying you can't discount the tastemakers completely. There is an impact.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the problem is that they're losing on both fronts. Price trumps power in general, but this is less powerful and more expensive. That is a toxic combination, and just throw the whole DRM drama on top of that.
 
So the tl,dr of this thread is essentially that Xbone is a less capable machine than PS4 I take it?

Truly a twist worthy of M Night himself :/

MysticGoujon said:
Lets wait to actually see both devices and the games running before saying they really fucked up, there's still a lot that's unknown :)
Click to expand...

Okay, Sessler.
 
plagiarize said:
I trust CBOAT.

I think he says a few important things 1: that the games will be good at 720p and 900p. If the main difference we're seeing in most multiplats is resolution, then I'm going to be very happy I bought a PS4, but I'm not going to be surprised if plenty of people are happy at 720p and 900p.

This not going away. Well why would we expect it to? The PS3 was more powerful, but multiplatform games never overtook the 360 ones. The gap narrowed somewhat, but the 360 stayed ahead.

We should never expect the Xbox One version of games to be as close to PS4 versions as PS3 versions of multiplatform games are to Xbox 360 now at the end of this gen.

But it's still an upgrade! The Xbox One may not compare favorably to the PS4 in head to heads, but we're seeing native 720p as a floor, and we're seeing higher resolutions more often than we saw on 360 (too early to say that about PS3, but I'm sure we'll see more games above 720p on Xbox One than PS3 had).

Forza, a game that was 720p and 60 fps last gen is showing up at 1080p and 60.
Crytek's last game was sub 720p and 30 fps. Their new one on Xbox One is 900p and 30 fps.
Numerous basketball games last gen were 1080p. The new one on Xbox One is 1080p.
No fighting games were above 720p and 60fps. Killer Instinct is at 720p native and 60 fps.

It's not as good as we were hoping, but without the PS4 making it look bad, I don't think there'd be nearly as much panicking. I wouldn't be surprised if when architecting the Xbox One and in making the decisions that are keeping most games at sub 1080p, that Microsoft honestly thought 720p or 900p would be good enough for most people.

And they probably will be.

But don't buy an Xbox One over a PS4 if it's important to you to be able to play the best console version of a multiplatform game.
Click to expand...

Source for the bolded? think I missed that.
 
plagiarize said:
I trust CBOAT.

I think he says a few important things 1: that the games will be good at 720p and 900p. If the main difference we're seeing in most multiplats is resolution, then I'm going to be very happy I bought a PS4, but I'm not going to be surprised if plenty of people are happy at 720p and 900p.
Click to expand...
I'm more concerned with that whole "parity" rumor that was going around suggesting that PS4 games might be gimped in order to level the field, so to speak. :\
 
netBuff said:
This is not an ability exclusive to the Xbone, the PS4 can do the same thing.
Click to expand...

True. I'm just speculating as to why the xbox designers took their approach; diminishing returns above ~1.5 mpixels given the displays the general audience will be using.
 
dark10x said:
I'm more concerned with that whole "parity" rumor that was going around suggesting that PS4 games might be gimped in order to level the field, so to speak. :\
Click to expand...
First parties just do not have the sway to enforce that platform wide. It's not going to happen.
 
dark10x said:
I'm more concerned with that whole "parity" rumor that was going around suggesting that PS4 games might be gimped in order to level the field, so to speak. :
Click to expand...

It's nonsense, never happened before and won't happen now ........ 360 games were not gimped in favour of ps3 and so on.

I also imagine anti trust, anti competitive etc
 
mejin said:
Sony really did a good job. I never imagined they could outpace Microsoft like this.
Click to expand...

I really wonder what Microsoft were expecting the PS4 to be like, spec-wise, before the reveal. It definitely feels like they've been caught off-guard by it.
 
dark10x said:
I'm more concerned with that whole "parity" rumor that was going around suggesting that PS4 games might be gimped in order to level the field, so to speak. :\
Click to expand...

Look, if PS4 leads in units sold, and install base, its aint gonna happen.

And since games don't compete with games on other platforms (COD Xb1 doesn't directly compete with PS4 version, it competes with HALO / KZ respectively), they need to bring their best show for each machine.

Its like each companies first party games will be the benchmark, and third parties best come damn close matching them or people will move away from lagging tities.

edit...meant TITLES OO
 
plagiarize said:
I trust CBOAT.

I think he says a few important things 1: that the games will be good at 720p and 900p. If the main difference we're seeing in most multiplats is resolution, then I'm going to be very happy I bought a PS4, but I'm not going to be surprised if plenty of people are happy at 720p and 900p.

This not going away. Well why would we expect it to? The PS3 was more powerful, but multiplatform games never overtook the 360 ones. The gap narrowed somewhat, but the 360 stayed ahead.

We should never expect the Xbox One version of games to be as close to PS4 versions as PS3 versions of multiplatform games are to Xbox 360 now at the end of this gen.

But it's still an upgrade! The Xbox One may not compare favorably to the PS4 in head to heads, but we're seeing native 720p as a floor, and we're seeing higher resolutions more often than we saw on 360 (too early to say that about PS3, but I'm sure we'll see more games above 720p on Xbox One than PS3 had).

Forza, a game that was 720p and 60 fps last gen is showing up at 1080p and 60.
Crytek's last game was sub 720p and 30 fps. Their new one on Xbox One is 900p and 30 fps.
Numerous basketball games last gen were 1080p. The new one on Xbox One is 1080p.
No fighting games were above 720p and 60fps. Killer Instinct is at 720p native and 60 fps.

It's not as good as we were hoping, but without the PS4 making it look bad, I don't think there'd be nearly as much panicking. I wouldn't be surprised if when architecting the Xbox One and in making the decisions that are keeping most games at sub 1080p, that Microsoft honestly thought 720p or 900p would be good enough for most people.

And they probably will be.

But don't buy an Xbox One over a PS4 if it's important to you to be able to play the best console version of a multiplatform game.
Click to expand...

There is no alternate reality where PS4 does not exist. It does exist and it's cheaper even. People who buy the X1 probably do it because they are a) not informed and b) because Halo in 2-3 years. No one would be hyped for DR3, KI or Forza 5 as much if those weren't on X1.
 
Ein Bear said:
I really wonder what Microsoft were expecting the PS4 to be like, spec-wise, before the reveal. It definitely feels like they've been caught off-guard by it.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's interesting to speculate. I hope we'll get some revealing info at some point once we're several years in and the stakes are lower.

If you asked now, MS will of course say that they don't consider what the opposition might do and that's probably true to an extent. I do remember MS stating that they spoke to developers during development and were basically told that "XB360 was great! More of the same please with more performance!". So that's why we have XB1, the high-level designs of the two systems are quite similar.
 
Bgamer90 said:
I wouldn't say "numerous".

NBA Street Homecourt (2007 game) for the 360 and PS3 did run in 1080p though.

Pretty sure that was the only basketball game last gen that did.
Click to expand...

I was more interested in the next gen version confirmed at 1080? has that happened nd I've missed it?
 
Thrakier said:
No one would be hyped for DR3, KI or Forza 5 as much if those weren't on X1.
Click to expand...

DR3 and KI, maybe, but Forza?

Xphk7kK.png


Yeah, nobody would be hyped at all for that b-tier franchise if it weren't on Xbone.
 
MysticGoujon said:
I never said anything like that, you just went off on one for some reason, I didn't even mention scalers, you did. All I said is that most people wouldn't be able to tell that Ryse was upscaled from 900p if the graphics looks at good as they do in the trailer.
Click to expand...
A what, 30% reduction in pixel detail, people do notice. They might not know why but they would use terms like not as: clear, clean or sharp - compared to Game X or to most all games on console Y.

You aren't giving people enough credit. They aren't stupid because they aren't the core gamer. They do notice fidelity - might not be able to instantly tell if its upscaled - but when you lose 30% picture detail that no amount of upscaling can add since it wasn't there to begin with - people do notice.
 
riflen said:
Yes, it's interesting to speculate. I hope we'll get some revealing info at some point once we're several years in and the stakes are lower.

If you asked now, MS will of course say that they don't consider what the opposition might do and that's probably true to an extent. I do remember MS stating that they spoke to developers during development and were basically told that "XB360 was great! More of the same please with more performance!". So that's why we have XB1, the high-level designs of the two systems are quite similar.
Click to expand...

They are very similar X360 > X1 ............. It just seems that having a dev as a system architect, out asking all and sundry what they want that Cerny made a machine that is the easiest yet to port code over from PC development systems on to the PS4.

The lack of complication and expensive in terms of die space and cost ESRAM, allowed Sony to get a higher class GPU and one fast pool of RAM.

Sony just out designed and engineered MS and really caught them on the back foot with their pants around their ankles.


It seems complacency, arrogance and under estimating their opponent has hurt MS.
 
dark10x said:
I'm more concerned with that whole "parity" rumor that was going around suggesting that PS4 games might be gimped in order to level the field, so to speak. :\
Click to expand...

If that did happen it won't last. Competition withing the PS4 ecosystem would make them push the PS4 versions.
 
Thrakier said:
There is no alternate reality where PS4 does not exist. It does exist and it's cheaper even. People who buy the X1 probably do it because they are a) not informed and b) because Halo in 2-3 years. No one would be hyped for DR3, KI or Forza 5 as much if those weren't on X1.
Click to expand...

so, you're telling me I preordered my XBOX One

a) I'm not informed
b) Halo
¿?

well, I know it's not of your interest/business, but

a) I'm well informed
b) I don't like Halo (FPS in general)
c) I preordered XB1 and Dead Rising 3

so, do you think I'm not hyped about DR3? smh..
 
Thrakier said:
There is no alternate reality where PS4 does not exist. It does exist and it's cheaper even. People who buy the X1 probably do it because they are a) not informed and b) because Halo in 2-3 years. No one would be hyped for DR3, KI or Forza 5 as much if those weren't on X1.
Click to expand...
A:) Jup, I'm stupid, the Xbox One is clearly more powerfull than all of NASA's datacenters combined.
B:) After Halo 4 I'm not that hyped for the next Halo.
C:) So I'm not hyped for DR3 and Forza?
 
There was never any talk of the 360s eDRAM being a hurdle, or the WIi Us, or the PS2s, or the Wiis. So what's going on?
 
Jack_AG said:
A what, 30% reduction in pixel detail, people do notice. They might not know why but they would use terms like not as: clear, clean or sharp - compared to Game X or to most all games on console Y.

You aren't giving people enough credit. They aren't stupid because they aren't the core gamer. They do notice fidelity - might not be able to instantly tell if its upscaled - but when you lose 30% picture detail that no amount of upscaling can add since it wasn't there to begin with - people do notice.
Click to expand...

If Ryse looks as good as it does in the trailer, people will say "my god this games looks amazing", not "hmmm, this game doesn't look at sharp as maybe it could, and look at those muddy textures, there's something awry going on here"
 
godelsmetric said:
DR3 and KI, maybe, but Forza?

Xphk7kK.png


Yeah, nobody would be hyped at all for that b-tier franchise if it weren't on Xbone.
Click to expand...

"As much". I know Forza has fans and there would be hype even on 360. Just not as much. It's well known that launch games, often mediocre, profit a lot from being on a new hardware because people, oh shit here it comes, want the new hardware anyway and just need something to play on it. If anyone would choose XB1 over PS4 ONLY because of Forza and DR3, that would be incredible shortsighted. With these two games you have about 20 hours of fun - but most people buy their consoles for several years. It's also not a Wii Tennis situation here where the games offer something completly new. You know exactly what you get there and you played those games, more or less, before. I barely understand how a veteran gamer can be excited for these games if it's not the new tech it's running on. And this is the point where you run into problems when you choose the XB1.
 
Thrakier said:
There is no alternate reality where PS4 does not exist. It does exist and it's cheaper even. People who buy the X1 probably do it because they are a) not informed and b) because Halo in 2-3 years. No one would be hyped for DR3, KI or Forza 5 as much if those weren't on X1.
Click to expand...

I'm not hyped for any of those games and I'm certainly not uninformed.

I'm hyped for Kinect Integration, New Rep System, "Snappy" OS, Xbox Fitness, Multiplayer games using the Xbox Live ecosystem, Smartmatch etc etc. I'm not really concerned with resolution or which console will have the graphical advantage (which is clearly the PS4). More power to the people who want a PS4. It will be the better system for them based on what they want, but you can keep your generalizations to yourself.
 
Thrakier said:
It's also has way less power compared to it's competitioner. We are not having a 360/PS3 situation here at all, where one console was accessible and powerful and the other one was complicated but potentially more powerful. The new situation: ONE console is inaccessible and weak, the other one is accessible and (well, for a 400$ console...) strong. The outcome will be devastating for X1 .....
Click to expand...
velociraptor said:
Indeed. Everyone keeps on ignoring reality. It's silly to expect the gap to ever be closed between the two consoles. One simply is much more powerful than the other. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...
Amen to that!
 
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