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CERN clocks faster-than-light neutrinos

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B

braves01

Banned
NYTimes said:
GENEVA (AP) — Scientists at the world's largest physics lab say they have clocked subatomic particles traveling faster than light. If that's true, it would break — if not severely twist — a fundamental pillar of physics.

Nothing is supposed to go faster than light. But scientists say that neutrinos — one of the strangest well-known particles in physics — smashed past the cosmic speed barrier of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers).

The European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN, says the speeds were detected in a neutrino beam fired from Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy.

Baffled scientists are asking others to independently verify the measurements or find other more mundane explanations for the measured speed.
Click to expand...

So, does this mean time travel is possible?
 
R

Rapstah

Member
And how the fuck did they reliably measure something that arrived before it started to move?

EDIT: Or, uh, before it stopped not having arrived. I guess they're accelerated for a while too.
 
H

Hootie

Member
I have no background in particle physics, but I'll assume for now that it's some sort of statistical anomaly or measurement error.

If not,

8Xnuo.gif
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Maybe if CERN actually did it's work instead of sitting on forums talking about video games and researching porn actresses, it would know that Einstein said it wasn't possible.

Wait, are the neutrinos travelling back through time then?
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
If true ... NICE!!!


DOBERMAN INC said:
Everything we know about physics could be wrong? We're fucked.
Click to expand...
Why would we be fucked?


That's like saying we were fucked when Relativity supplanted Newtonian physics.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Rapstah said:
And how the fuck did they reliably measure something that arrived before it started to move?

EDIT: Or, uh, before it stopped not having arrived. I guess they're accelerated for a while too.
Click to expand...

This sounds like a job for philosiraptor
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
So...if we can find a way to generate them, we can break causality.

EDIT: I'm dumb, we did. So then I don't really see how this doesn't violate the whole information causality thing. You could transmit information with pulsed beams.
 
S

Snytbaggen

Member
DrM said:
They forgot to include speed detector error % :)
Click to expand...
They did, it's in the whole article

CERN says a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy traveled 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Scientists calculated the margin of error at just 10 nanoseconds, making the difference statistically significant. But given the enormity of the find, they still spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there was no flaws in the experiment.
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/09/22/world/europe/AP-EU-Breaking-Light-Speed.html?_r=1&hp
 
R

Rapstah

Member
Hm, they way the article puts it the particle just arrived at a location in a time that would put it beyond the speed of light. That doesn't mean it ever travelled faster than the speed of light from any perspective. I'm sure there are tons of quantum glitches that could explain that. Especially with fucked up particles like neutrinos.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
60 nanoseconds seems well within the margin of error when measuring speeds like that. So this probably means nothing.

But I'm not all that well versed in this stuff so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
 
L

Levyne

Banned
chaosblade said:
60 nanoseconds seems well within the margin of error when measuring speeds like that. So this probably means nothing.

But I'm not all that well versed in this stuff so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

They said the margin of error was +/- 10 nanoseconds.
 
D

Daft_Cat

Member
So either one of the most important and longest standing pillars of modern science is wrong, or Cern somehow messed up their margin for error.

Which one's more likely?
 
ReBurn

ReBurn

Gold Member
They need to provide this kind of speed detection technology to police officers to replace radar. Maybe then they can clock the right people.
 
S

Smellycat

Member
braves01 said:
So, does this mean time travel is possible?
Click to expand...

No, no and no. Time travel is simply not possible and it doesn't make sense. As Chinner said, if time travel is possible then it should have happened by now. Ex: hitler would have stopped, 9/11 would have been prevented, etc...

Or maybe, just maybe...IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. What if atheist scientists went back in time planted fossils that look like humans, so that they can add proof to evolution???

:O
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
In 2034, CERN will announce the first working time machine which can transport a human through time. Shortly after, strange events occur which cause world governments to fall and wars to break out. By 2036, CERN rules the entire world, which is a dystopia that has reverted to 18th century levels of technology.
 
Mikey Jr.

Mikey Jr.

Member
Ok, but can it run Crysis?

Ok, I'll stop.

Anyways, great stuff. Not sure what this means in the grand scheme of things though.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
The Russians heard about the beam experiment and shot a second beam from a different location directly BEHIND the first lab, making it seem like the Russian's beam was coming from the same direction. Then they shot their beam slightly before the first lab shot. The lab 454 miles away received the early Russian beam, thinkiing it was supposed to be the first lab's beam. This incident will spark World War III.
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
chaosblade said:
60 nanoseconds seems well within the margin of error when measuring speeds like that. So this probably means nothing.

But I'm not all that well versed in this stuff so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
Isn't the margin of error 10 nanoseconds? If so its well out.
 
K

Kung Fu Jedi

Member
Deadly Cyclone said:
Note:

AP Quote:
CERN says a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy traveled 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light.
Click to expand...

That's like making the Kessel Run in less than 12 Parsecs!
 
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