NightmareFarm
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"Change My View"
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CMV: Doom Eternal is better than 2016 in every way besides the plot
- Thread starter NightmareFarm
- Start date
NightmareFarm
Member
>You constantly have to remember what type of actions to perform to receive specific things (almost like a chess game)
That's what makes the combat better
>the platforming sections are awful
I disagree it's better than just walking in a straight line to the objective. I found it to be pretty fun and speeds up the pace of combat.
>the music is nowhere near as memorable.
I'd say their about tied imo. Both are really fucking good.
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hemo memo
Gold Member
Cytomegalovirus
Knightime_X
Member
Doom Eternal is the Final fantasy 13 / resident evil 6 of doom games but in a bad way.
Mediocre Arachno-Lad
Member
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
The thread you meant to respond to, but accidentally created a new thread.
Ulysses 31
Member
It did but not that far to be annoying and I wasn't a fan of the battle arena structure in that game either, but Doom Eternal took all those things and made it worse.
But those things made me think the level designers didn't care anymore about (carefully) crafting a believable world overrun by demons and just wanted to make an obstacle course that has no in-universe reason to be there.
To me, the (somewhat) believable level design(in 3 up to 2016) made it more enjoyable to fight through, in Eternal this seems to have taken too much of a backseat and it's making the levels less memorable and exposes the hallway, battle arena, hallway, battle arena level structure too much.
Part of a level in Doom 2 has very narrow walkways so that is evidence people wanted to swing around in majority of the levels of Doom 1/2/3/64/2016?
Or is that evidence of Doom 2 having odd level design choices here and there?
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Doom 2016 was my first doom, eternal felt almost too good for its own good the slick guns, weapon wheels, better demon hell arenas and eternal is reflected with an 80+ metacritic score.
NightmareFarm
Member
But those things made me think the level designers didn't care anymore about (carefully) crafting a believable world overrun by demons and just wanted to make an obstacle course that has no in-universe reason to be there.
To me, the (somewhat) believable level design(in 3 up to 2016) made it more enjoyable to fight through, in Eternal this seems to have taken too much of a backseat and it's making the levels less memorable and exposes the hallway, battle arena, hallway, battle arena level structure too much.
It's not a big deal. Doom was never meant to be "immersive" if you want that play Resident Evil. I don't know why you're so fixated on it. Games always have those weird immersion breakers and there's plenty in 2016. I mean why would people just litter stuff all over the laboratory floors? But I digress, this "belivable level design" criticism isn't as big as you're making it seem.
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Imtjnotu
Member
NightmareFarm
Member
Cope.
NightmareFarm
Member
I didn't think Doom 2016s gunplay could be topped in how intense it was.
Then Eternal came out and made it look like a water pistol fight between 5 year olds.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
That thread was two years old that someone necro'd.
adamosmaki
Member
No
Ulysses 31
Member
I played through the main campaign and the first DLC on nightmare and I'm telling why I didn't enjoy Eternal as much as the previous Doom entries. Too much of the "Doom soul" was missing for me in Eternal. If I hadn't played any of the other Dooms I likely would've had a different opinion.
But if people like Eternal the most then good for them.
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Nintendo's Witch
Member
no
Killer8
Member
Eternal was worse in almost every way. Technically I guess the engine is superior to 2016 but the art direction was a major step back. The enemy designs ended up looking incredibly goofy and over-animated. I know some of the designs were meant to be a callback to the original games, but it just came across as silly looking. 2016 was a dark game with a lot of contrast while Eternal is almost cartoonishly colorful and bright. For a game based around a Hell setting, the former is going to be the way to go (and a lot more metal).
In terms of the gameplay, Eternal felt like id watched a lot of those super sweaty 'pro' videos of Doom 2016 on Youtube, and thought that the key to interesting gameplay was having the player constantly be switching up their weapon and using every single one of their abilities. Basically, if you want to play the game in the way you want for more than 2 seconds, id steps in and says "that's not interesting enough", and then makes the ammo run out. It feels like a tiresome juggling act of all the mechanics, like a very specific play style that you're railroaded into doing. Which is kind of ironic considering the whole point was to make it feel more varied.
In terms of the gameplay, Eternal felt like id watched a lot of those super sweaty 'pro' videos of Doom 2016 on Youtube, and thought that the key to interesting gameplay was having the player constantly be switching up their weapon and using every single one of their abilities. Basically, if you want to play the game in the way you want for more than 2 seconds, id steps in and says "that's not interesting enough", and then makes the ammo run out. It feels like a tiresome juggling act of all the mechanics, like a very specific play style that you're railroaded into doing. Which is kind of ironic considering the whole point was to make it feel more varied.
Bragr
Banned
I like Doom Eternal, but if it didn't have enemies that constantly rush you, it would be better. It makes you feel like you are playing a platforming-pinball shooter or something like that.
It feels like one of those 2D platforming games where you are chased by something and always have to move forward as a black screen is trying to swallow you.
It's not as drastic as that, but I get that feeling during the combat, that you are chased by something. It feels arcade-ish and annoying. Like playing 3 hours of that Uncharted 4 segment where the car is chasing you.
I understand it's the catalyst for the resource systems and many other things, but it creates so many odd parts of the game that I don't enjoy, even if I love how they tried to do something different.
It feels like one of those 2D platforming games where you are chased by something and always have to move forward as a black screen is trying to swallow you.
It's not as drastic as that, but I get that feeling during the combat, that you are chased by something. It feels arcade-ish and annoying. Like playing 3 hours of that Uncharted 4 segment where the car is chasing you.
I understand it's the catalyst for the resource systems and many other things, but it creates so many odd parts of the game that I don't enjoy, even if I love how they tried to do something different.
xpresstuning
Member
No it's not.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
This post just proves that you were too clueless to play the game properly if you think doom eternal has no ammo.
Just wondering, do you complain about every game where you ignore when they tell you how to succeed?
Patrick S.
Banned
Whoever or whatever a "CMV" is, he/she/it/they is/are wrong.
Edit: Oh, I see, already answered. Well, the answer is still: wrong.
Edit: Oh, I see, already answered. Well, the answer is still: wrong.
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kiphalfton
Member
It does matter because it was a missed opportunity. It was a complete 180°, for no good reason.
Probably won't be a third game, because the second game was a turd.
Patrick S.
Banned
Also, the way Bethesda fucked Mick Gordon over his music really soured me on the franchise.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Resource management is not doom
doom is an constant orgy of violence putting pauses in this loop because no ammo is fucking dumb and not what doom is
no it's not OG doom
the game is ok
it's just not doom
kvltus lvlzvs
Banned
I thought the le epic plot capeshit direction they took eternal was kind of dumb. 2016 was better IMHO
But doom 2 is still the best, particularly with good wads like eviternity.
Here is a psa YouTube link for anyone interested in peak doom:
But doom 2 is still the best, particularly with good wads like eviternity.
Here is a psa YouTube link for anyone interested in peak doom:
NightmareFarm
Member
Resource managing in modern doom games doesn't pause the violence loop, it continues it. You chainsaw to extract ammo, you glory kill to extract health you set demons on fire to extract armor.
NightmareFarm
Member
I agree that's the only way in which 2016 does it better but Doom was never about the plot and 2016s plot wasn't great or anything just serviceable.
kvltus lvlzvs
Banned
I'll agree, doom 2 had lots of circle strafing.
That being said, It had very little platforming and the platofrming it did have was more like sprinting across gaps. There was no jumping in doom 2.
Mario neon hoop jumping was never part of the equation.
There is nothing I would call eternal style platforming in doom, doom 2 or Plutonia.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
no it's fucking stupid and it aint doom
NightmareFarm
Member
Then according to your logic 2016 isn't "doom" either because there was plenty of that in that game.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
NightmareFarm
Member
Not an argument. You had glory kills and chainsawing in that game and you also had to micromanage 12 weapons ammo count.
hemo memo
Gold Member
I disagree with your disagreement and I also think of making a thread replying to your thread.
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Varteras
Gold Member
Pasta la Vista
Member
Doom 2016 was like a total shock, nobody expected it to be good but it ended up being exactly what it needed to be as a soft "reboot".
Eternal is definitely more of an "arena shooter" in its design. I love both for different reasons.
There's no loss for me here, both games exist and do what I enjoy. My one big critique about Eternal though is that is is a little too self aware, so it can feel a bit "meme"y.
Eternal is definitely more of an "arena shooter" in its design. I love both for different reasons.
There's no loss for me here, both games exist and do what I enjoy. My one big critique about Eternal though is that is is a little too self aware, so it can feel a bit "meme"y.
SkylineRKR
Member
Its absolutely better, but its not without its shortcomings. First I didn't enjoy Eternal much and thought 2016 was better but this changed when I gave it another go way later.
There is a lot to manage, too much perhaps, and I am still not a fan of its ammo management, but I think Eternal is better structured. I could do without some stupid environmental gimmicks but Eternal has better encounter design. Nearly the whole of 2016 is arena battle after arena battle starting with low level goons, and then the tiers go up each time. Eternal has less boring encounters, and they are less drawn out. Its just that in Eternal you get bum rushed and you have to constantly manage your ammo on top of other meters. But once it clicked I enjoyed it a ton, ended up liking Eternal more than 2016.
And yes you pretty much have to use all weapons and play sweaty in Eternal to be most effective, personally I like it if there is an incentive to this. I am also a big fan of DMC games, which might explain some.
There is a lot to manage, too much perhaps, and I am still not a fan of its ammo management, but I think Eternal is better structured. I could do without some stupid environmental gimmicks but Eternal has better encounter design. Nearly the whole of 2016 is arena battle after arena battle starting with low level goons, and then the tiers go up each time. Eternal has less boring encounters, and they are less drawn out. Its just that in Eternal you get bum rushed and you have to constantly manage your ammo on top of other meters. But once it clicked I enjoyed it a ton, ended up liking Eternal more than 2016.
And yes you pretty much have to use all weapons and play sweaty in Eternal to be most effective, personally I like it if there is an incentive to this. I am also a big fan of DMC games, which might explain some.
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NightmareFarm
Member
Eternal definitely benefits from a replay due to the high learning curve.
NightmareFarm
Member
Eternal is brighter/more colourful because it's going for a more retro arcade style vibe that is in the spirit of the first few games. I can see where you're coming from though.
>In terms of the gameplay, Eternal felt like id watched a lot of those super sweaty 'pro' videos of Doom 2016 on Youtube, and thought that the key to interesting gameplay was having the player constantly be switching up their weapon and using every single one of their abilities.
And they were right to do so. The combat feels more dynamic as a result.
>Basically, if you want to play the game in the way you want for more than 2 seconds, id steps in and says "that's not interesting enough", and then makes the ammo run out.
You chainsaw for more ammo or you switch weapons. That's exactly how it worked in 2016. I don't see the problem.
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Killer8
Member
The chainsaw in Eternal is not exactly the same as 2016.
In 2016 it had limited fuel that you can only find in the level. In Eternal, there is always one fuel unit that will recharge on its own.
In 2016, because of the limited fuel, it was used as more of a power weapon that can instantly kill most enemies. The ammo being dropped from them was really just a bonus, like some victory confetti.
In Eternal, since you always have some fuel recharging, being able to use it is just a matter of time. It stops being this infrequently used power weapon, where you save its fuel for a special occasion, and starts being just the way to get ammo back.
And why did this change happen? Because the designers decided to make ammo extremely scarce, not only in the capacity of each gun but by placing less pickups in the level. The chainsaw now becomes pretty much "ammo restock tool". It's why the chainsaw has to recharge now because the game will be unplayable without it.
My issue with this design, as i've said, is that between the chainsaw, the glory kills for health, and the flamethrower for shields, you end up juggling all of this shit constantly because by design you now have to. You can't get as comfy with your favorite gun as 2016 and blast away to your hearts content, because it will run dry in no time. Of course you'd still have to change weapons in 2016 too, it wasn't like there was infinite ammo in that game. But it felt like there was enough to at least let you get your kicks a lot more with the tools you wanted to use. Eternal takes them away far too early to enforce muh gameplay variety.
The whole design of the game is just solutions looking for problems. Playing Eternal left me feeling like a clown trying to keep all of id's balls in the air.
JonSnowball
Member
Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are both arena shooters and aren't representative of the original Doom games. I prefer 2016 over Eternal, though I can see why people would enjoy Eternal - especially if they're under the age of 25.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
I didn’t like how it seemed to force you to use certain weapons or strats on specific enemies rather than just ripping and tearing until it’s done. But it was still fun, just not as fun as 2016
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bender
What time is it?
Breaking flow is one of my bigger gripes about 2016. I liked the moment to moment action with guns even if I wasn't found of the ammo/health/chainsaw/glory kill loop, but what sapped my joy more than anything else is that the upgrade system made finding all the secrets and challenge rooms feel necessary which led to large lulls between the most enjoyable parts of the game and worse yet, level resets due to missing a secret after a point-of-no-return.
NightmareFarm
Member
The only ones that really required you to do that is the cacodemon from what I recall.
JonSnowball
Member
Here's a take no one has mentioned: Mick Gordon's score is overrated. It's nothing special, it's effectively 90s industrial metal instrumentals looping constantly. In Eternal specifically it got really old.