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[LaneDS]

I'm a bit surprised at the naiveté of the dev.

OMG open platform built for the sole purpose of storing, manipulating and displaying digital data allows for copying of digital data! Who woulda thunk?

Seriously. It's well-known that the PC platform has a high piracy rate, but nonetheless it still manages to sell quite a bunch of licenses. If you're a dev targeting that platform, shouldn't you know about that? Why is he surprised, or even shellshocked? What kind of happy little universe is he living in? I'm seriously flabbergasted.

Ah well. I hope he can share the percentages.
Also, I pity the console fanboys for their cry for console exclusivity. Come on, guys. Come on. We're better than this. It's not funny, either.

While we all know piracy has been around as long as the PC, I don't think the developer is at all naive in this case.

Rather, I think he's commenting on the severity of the situation. With the advent of torrents it is easier than ever for people to steal anything and everything, and I believe his comments are meant to express just how far out of hand piracy has gotten.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

No surprises here. It's been like this since the beginning.

 

[Borys]

No surprises here. It's been like this since the beginning.

.

Either you make a HUGE HIT for the casual market like The Sims or World of Warcraft and all those girls and moms will buy your game at the mall or you make HUGE HIT for the hardcore market and millions of nerds will buy your game just because all their nerdy friends are playing it (*Craft series from Blizzard) or you are pretty much fucked in the PC gaming market - piracy will eat you alive.

 

[Minsc]

.

Either you make a HUGE HIT for the casual market like The Sims or World of Warcraft and all those girls and moms will buy your game at the mall or you make HUGE HIT for the hardcore market and millions of nerds will buy your game just because all their nerdy friends are playing it (*Craft series from Blizzard) or you are pretty much fucked in the PC gaming market - piracy will eat you alive.

Stardock managed to do pretty well with GalCiv2, broke all their previous records & expectations. Not saying you're wrong, but just wanted to throw in another exception to the norm.

 

[Morbid Angel]

Who said the PC version is not profitable?

No one. In the USA it did 320k the first month. Add the EU sales (the biggest PC market) and I'm sure that it's doing fine.

Piracy is definitely a big problem but it didn't bomb.

 

[Chrono]

Can games still be pirated if they were only available on digital download services?

 

[Vagabundo]

I hate piracy. It's not so much the money (though of course it's that too), it's the feeling that my work has gone unrewarded or unappreciated. That said, I also hate this sort of alarmist statistic. I remain unconvinced as to how many of those people would have actually bought the game had pirating it not been an option anyway.

Not to excuse piracy, as my stance on it is clear. But it's impact on the industry is probably overstated. I'm not saying it doesn't have a significant impact, of course it does. But invasive copy protection probably does more harm.

You get Most Level Headed Comment Achievement.


There must be some way of capturing these guys, to get them spend some money. More research needed, less priacy protection required...

 

[SabinFigaro]

Stardock managed to do pretty well with GalCiv2, broke all their previous records & expectations. Not saying you're wrong, but just wanted to throw in another exception to the norm.

True, but I wonder how many of those sales were based on people throwing their support behind the company due to the Starforce fiasco. I have no doubt that people who didn't plan on buying the game or those who may have pirated it went out and bought a copy (or downloaded it legally). I think that different circumstances will influence any consumer, such as "sticking it to the man".

 

[Borys]

Stardock managed to do pretty well with GalCiv2, broke all their previous records & expectations. Not saying you're wrong, but just wanted to throw in another exception to the norm.

Minsc and Boo know no wrongs!

(agree, there are always exceptions to norms)

 

[Core407]

Even if it was as low as 20%, for a game that's probably sold over 500k that's a pretty big loss for the company, especially since the pirates are still leeching off of their matchmaking service.

That is why games need to validate the cd keys through an online server every time the game boots up.

 

[Fragamemnon]

True, but I wonder how many of those sales were based on people throwing their support behind the company due to the Starforce fiasco.

Regardless of why they bought it, I bet they were satisfied if they played it. It's a really good game.

Also, they did do a ton of sales through Wal-Mart, of all places, and that doesn't seem like the first stop for the kind of people keen on hating DRM.

 

[Xater]

@ IW comment in the OP: And that's why we will see alot of those big PC titles on console in the future.

 

[nli10]

If they can ID a percentage of illegal online players then surely they can deactivate said players from online play?

Or at least reset their chars to 'level 1' every time they play online...

 

[MrPing1000]

If pirates kill pc gaming, what will they play on pc?

I'm starting to think the bioshock method is the only valid one atm. Require game to connect to a server before install, if key already in use do not allow access to game ( have significant support to help those with actual keys that can't get on, cause you know it'll happen).

Only allow 2 installs of that key, but allow that number to go back up upon uninstall.

A month after game comes out, change the amount of installs to 50.

Of course these things always end up cracked eventually :/

Piracy is always going to happen, the trick is to slow it at least for a few weeks forcing people who really want the game to actually buy the damn thing.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Or perhaps they will just skip out on the game?

This would hurt the devs...how?

At the very least, I think we'll see more situations like Assassin's Creed and GTA IV where the console versions are given like a 6 month lead on PC to milk as many 'real' sales as possible before opening the game up to the larger piracy community.

Just looking at this clusterfuck of a thread, it's obvious that there are many reasons that people give themselves to pirate, and nearly all of the solutions are either ineffective or harmful. So publishers are eventually just going to start taking their ball and going home.

 

[theBishop]

Can games still be pirated if they were only available on digital download services?

if it can be copied, it can be pirated. that's why all these attempts to stop it at the expense of paying customers is bullshit.

 

[theBishop]

If pirates kill pc gaming, what will they play on pc?

I'm starting to think the bioshock method is the only valid one atm. Require game to connect to a server before install, if key already in use do not allow access to game ( have significant support to help those with actual keys that can't get on, cause you know it'll happen).

Only allow 2 installs of that key, but allow that number to go back up upon uninstall.

A month after game comes out, change the amount of installs to 50.


Piracy is always going to happen, the trick is to slow it at least for a few weeks forcing people who really want the game to actually buy the damn thing.

Really? The "Bioshock Method" didn't prevent Bioshock from hitting the bittorrent sites a week ahead of the street date.

and even if i bought the PC version (360 here), I still would've ended up downloading the pirated version just because its objectively superior to the retail copy.

 

[grandjedi6]

God damn Pirates. I wonder if these people realize that one day the Government will regulate the internet and all this privacy is just speeding them up

 

[Kabouter]

Stardock managed to do pretty well with GalCiv2, broke all their previous records & expectations. Not saying you're wrong, but just wanted to throw in another exception to the norm.

Usually, the niches have more loyal consumers. It's why point & click adventures are still made in such large numbers for instance. They're really only bought by fans of the genre who will gladly spend the money instead of just downloading everything.

 

[Fragamemnon]

@ IW comment in the OP: And that's why we will see alot of those big PC titles on console in the future.

To be honest, when appropriate mulitplatform (including PC) is the only/best way to justify most big game budgets.

The real problem is when it stops making sense to even bother doing a PC version at all, a point at which we are thankfully quite far from for a lot of the big budget games suitable to the platform.

 

[Sinatar]

I think online activation systems like Office (or for games, Bioshock) use will be a necessity going forward, assuming this piracy crap doesn't scare them off the platform altogether.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Really? The "Bioshock Method" didn't prevent Bioshock from hitting the bittorrent sites a week ahead of the street date.

Maybe on 360. I watched that whole thing play out closely ( I pre-ordered it on Steam, of course), and it took about two weeks or so to get a "working" torrent for that game on the PC.

 

[Rorschach]

This is why the PC industry will never, ever, take off

:lol :lol :lol

 

[elostyle]

I thought steam solved this.

 

[The Faceless Master]

maybe if people could trade in used PC games they would buy more new games!

 

[The Faceless Master]

The system is region free so there is no excuse for any kind of mod chips etc.

censorship? some people want blood and no bushy eyebrows.

Spoiler

people will always find an excuse

 

[plagiarize]

Really? The "Bioshock Method" didn't prevent Bioshock from hitting the bittorrent sites a week ahead of the street date.

and even if i bought the PC version (360 here), I still would've ended up downloading the pirated version just because its objectively superior to the retail copy.

yeah. people in this thread that think technology is going to stop pirates are blind.

the fact is copy protection only punishes the average user. pirates always find a way around it.

take Bioshock, pirates download it the same way they download everything, but a guy without an internet connection can't buy the game and play it.

more than once in the past i had to crack a game i'd bought legally because the copy protection didn't like my DVD drive. the pirates didn't have to do anything different.

 

[fourzerotwo]

While we all know piracy has been around as long as the PC, I don't think the developer is at all naive in this case.

Rather, I think he's commenting on the severity of the situation. With the advent of torrents it is easier than ever for people to steal anything and everything, and I believe his comments are meant to express just how far out of hand piracy has gotten.

Thank you.

 

[Nerevar]

Regardless of why they bought it, I bet they were satisfied if they played it. It's a really good game.

Also, they did do a ton of sales through Wal-Mart, of all places, and that doesn't seem like the first stop for the kind of people keen on hating DRM.

eh, for huge segments of the US population that's really the only place they have available to shop. It's certainly the most convenient. I'd argue it's much more likely they'd buy a game there than a specialty game store (although I'd be surprised if it was higher than web-based sales by a large margin).

 

[Stoney Mason]

yeah. people in this thread that think technology is going to stop pirates are blind.

the fact is copy protection only punishes the average user. pirates always find a way around it.

take Bioshock, pirates download it the same way they download everything, but a guy without an internet connection can't buy the game and play it.

more than once in the past i had to crack a game i'd bought legally because the copy protection didn't like my DVD drive. the pirates didn't have to do anything different.

Also pretty much agree. As someone said earlier, you're only hope on the PC market is generally to either have such a massive hit that the piracy while still huge won't matter in the long run or have a targeted title where the budget is low enough that you can sell to the dedicated group that will buy your game. Sort of the high end and the low end approach. Unfortunately that syndrome has gutted the massive middle portion of the market that used to exist on the PC and slowly but surely moved over to the console.

 

[besada]

Thank you.

We want the number.

 

[SRG01]

Also pretty much agree. As someone said earlier, you're only hope on the PC market is generally to either have such a massive hit that the piracy while still huge won't matter in the long run or have a targeted title where the budget is low enough that you can sell to the dedicated group that will buy your game. Sort of the high end and the low end approach. Unfortunately that syndrome has gutted the massive middle portion of the market that used to exist on the PC and slowly but surely moved over to the console.

Yes, I can agree with this.

Another problem is that there are hardly any promotions for PC games anymore. Promotion and word of mouth is key to winning the casual buyers.

 

[h1nch]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Xfqkdh5Js4

 

[MrPing1000]

Really? The "Bioshock Method" didn't prevent Bioshock from hitting the bittorrent sites a week ahead of the street date.

and even if i bought the PC version (360 here), I still would've ended up downloading the pirated version just because its objectively superior to the retail copy.

Well thats the hole that needs to be filled. Two parts, make a technology that is hard to crack and must be done so on a per game basis and seek out and fire employees that are causing leaks along the chain of manufacturing.

Not easy, but it may be required, or alternatively go to consoles for insta monies.

 

[theBishop]

Well thats the hole that needs to be filled. Two parts, make a technology that is hard to crack and must be done so on a per game basis and seek out and fire employees that are causing leaks along the chain of manufacturing.

Not easy, but it may be required, or alternatively go to consoles for insta monies.

Dude... a week before the release, a lot of people outside "manufacturing" have gotten their hands on it. its often in boxes in retail stockrooms a week before release. Certainly at regional warehouses.

and my point wasn't that it leaked early.

 

[theBishop]

yeah. people in this thread that think technology is going to stop pirates are blind.

the fact is copy protection only punishes the average user. pirates always find a way around it.

take Bioshock, pirates download it the same way they download everything, but a guy without an internet connection can't buy the game and play it.

more than once in the past i had to crack a game i'd bought legally because the copy protection didn't like my DVD drive. the pirates didn't have to do anything different.

Yeah dude. I have a few PC games (Sacrifice, Deus Ex, MDK2, others) that I can't even play because I lost the sleeve that had the CD-key printed on it.

 

[Pharmacy]

replace "PC Piracy" with "my cock" and you have a more accurate title

 

[evlcookie]

How much security and protection does Steam provide against this sort of thing?

None. there is an entire group dedicated to steam piracy. Download a modified/emulated version of steam, download the gcf's or whatever the game comes in, and play.

I would be interested to see the piracy numbers from pc, ps2, the original xbox, and maybe the gamecube, but that got cracked rather late in its life.

 

[Borys]

Also pretty much agree. As someone said earlier, you're only hope on the PC market is generally to either have such a massive hit that the piracy while still huge won't matter in the long run or have a targeted title where the budget is low enough that you can sell to the dedicated group that will buy your game. Sort of the high end and the low end approach. Unfortunately that syndrome has gutted the massive middle portion of the market that used to exist on the PC and slowly but surely moved over to the console.

That someone would be me. RE5PECT or...

 

[MrPing1000]

Dude... a week before the release, a lot of people outside "manufacturing" have gotten their hands on it. its often in boxes in retail stockrooms a week before release. Certainly at regional warehouses.

and my point wasn't that it leaked early.

Well naturally. You can try to stop leaks but it always happens. A more robust anti-piracy method is the key. One which is not easily cracked and can modulate in some way.

Look I have no idea what I'm talking about, if I knew I'd be in the business.

 

[Chrono]

Well we all know why PC gaming is the choice of the people. I had whole discussions with some retards. I ask why is PC gaming better than my console gaming, big tv, nice surround sound.
Responce: PC gaming has the best games. MMm okay and you pay for them? No I download them from the internet.
PC gaming FTW!

Yeah, you can't play PC games on a big TV or have surround. Only on consoles. :lol

 

[Borys]

Look I have no idea what I'm talking about, if I knew I'd be in the business.

Hell if someone, anyone, would have come up with 100% warez proof method of protecting original PC games it he would be a friggin billionaire by now.

 

[Lostconfused]

Well to be honest the article is right. The numbers are huge because it is easy people to pirate CoD4.

Edit: Insert random remark about how CoD4 isn't worth the money aways so no sales lost.

 

[Barry Lightning]

it would be interesting to see how many game developers download music and movies over bittorrent.

only took a few posts for someone to try and condone the stealing.

 

[Aegus]

Haven't read the thread, but launching the damn game on PC with a £35 price point may have something to do with it. PC games should be £25 or lower to get me to buy them else I'm not touching it.

 

[theBishop]

Well naturally. You can try to stop leaks but it always happens. A more robust anti-piracy method is the key. One which is not easily cracked and can modulate in some way.

Look I have no idea what I'm talking about, if I knew I'd be in the business.

no way. Console games are often burned to disc in such a way that they cannot be read by typical PC drives, but they still leak rapidly. There's no way you can have a PC game that will simultaneously run on 100% of optical drives and be hacker-proof.

All copyright-driven industries (music, software, film, games, etc) need to accept that piracy is here to stay. I'm not condoning it or justifying it, but it is what it is. Publishers need to stop crippling their products, and come up with creative ways to make people want to pay for them.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Piracy isn't a problem at all. They're lying. Everyone's lying.

 

[MrPing1000]

no way. Console games are often burned to disc in such a way that they cannot be read by typical PC drives, but they still leak rapidly. There's no way you can have a PC game that will simultaneously run on 100% of optical drives and be hacker-proof.

All copyright-driven industries (music, software, film, games, etc) need to accept that piracy is here to stay. I'm not condoning it or justifying it, but it is what it is. Publishers need to stop crippling their products, and come up with creative ways to make people want to pay for them.

I wasn't suggesting a hacker-proof disk, like you said thats impossible. The aim is to slow piracy down. Theres a crossover point early on starting shortly before the game is released at retail and about a month after where slowing down piracy has to be the aim. Incentives to actually buy the game seem to be the logical approach, but what can you offer in a box that people want? Models and crap don't do much for me, especially when they cost more.

 

[LaneDS]

replace "PC Piracy" with "my cock" and you have a more accurate title

Excellent contribution to GAF, glad to have you here.

 

[ninjaurbano]

That is the risk of the business.

Anyway, a lot of the piracy comes from the world outside the most developed countries. And it's hard to convince someone from there to spend the equivalent of 1/4 of the local minimum wage (or even more) to buy a game, when you can easily get it for free, without the assles of importing (in the case of a lot of those games).