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[Psychoward]

WEESA FREE

 

[SargerusBR]

Can you explain why?

He gets progressively worse, at the beginning of the movie he looks cool and shows how powerful he is with his Force Stasis, but then he goes all edgy teenager rage shit

And then he takes off the mask, i'm sorry but Adam Driver with his baby face is not someone i can take as a villain seriously.

 

[Sephzilla]

Yeah, and IMO, those scenes with Han and Leia were dull and forced as well --- seemed to be such a shallow callback to the "there's still good in him" moments between Luke and Leia in ROTJ, and the chemistry between Harrison Ford and Carrie Fischer in those TFA scenes were extremely weak compared to their OT selves. Their failed relationship in the ST lore doesn't explain away that either.

It's a creative call and the fanbase will probably be split on it --- we see a lot of people in this thread lining up on enjoying the early reveal better.

IMO, it would have been amazing to have the audience still stirring and reeling from the long-awaited and finally-confirmed news that Kylo Ren is Ben Solo, Han Solo's son, and then while the audience is still reeling from that, the confrontation comes to a head and Han is betrayed just like that, for maximum impact. Everything laid out beforehand (Snoke's exposition, Han & Leia's discussion etc.) just cheapens the moment for me instead of enhancing it. I'm glad you all liked it, though!

Yeah ultimately we're just on different sides of it. I'm just glad they didn't make it another big plot twist moment, I think that would have been too on-the-nose with trying to recreate the Empire twist

He gets progressively worse, at the beginning of the movie he looks cool and shows how powerful he is with his Force Stasis, but then he goes all edgy teenager rage shit

And then he takes off the mask, i'm sorry but Adam Driver with his baby face is not someone i can take as a villain seriously.

I think you missed the point of the character. He's supposed to be a giant subversion of expectations, not another Vader. Peeling back the layers and finding out that he's obsessed with filling Vader's shoes was a twist i wasn't expecting

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Also, if you are in good with WB, that's a better place to be as a director than Disney.

That definitely doesn't apply to everyone. With SOME notable exceptions, a lot of WB's releases have been a mess over the last few years and it has definitely cost them.

 

[jett]

Regarding Kylo Ren, Rian Johnson or whoever follows Ep8 better not make the dumb decision of attempting to redeem him.

 

[Lifejumper]

He gets progressively worse, at the beginning of the movie he looks cool and shows how powerful he is with his Force Stasis, but then he goes all edgy teenager rage shit

And then he takes off the mask, i'm sorry but Adam Driver with his baby face is not someone i can take as a villain seriously.

I see. Thanks for explaining. I thought he became more interesting as the movie went along.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Anyone have any ideas/theories on how they're going to handle Leia's character in Episode VIII? I mean the most obvious answer is that they kill her off, but would there be any other cool ways to have her exit out of the story without actually killing her off?

 

[Bobo Dakes]

He gets progressively worse, at the beginning of the movie he looks cool and shows how powerful he is with his Force Stasis, but then he goes all edgy teenager rage shit

And then he takes off the mask, i'm sorry but Adam Driver with his baby face is not someone i can take as a villain seriously.

So ... your complaint is that he doesn't look cool?

 

[Inferno313]

He gets progressively worse, at the beginning of the movie he looks cool and shows how powerful he is with his Force Stasis, but then he goes all edgy teenager rage shit

And then he takes off the mask, i'm sorry but Adam Driver with his baby face is not someone i can take as a villain seriously.

This is what is INTERESTING about the character.

Interesting villains > "badass" villains.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Regarding Kylo Ren, Rian Johnson or whoever follows Ep8 better not make the dumb decision of attempting to redeem him.

My hunch is that Trevorrow kept trying this even after Fisher had died and the story never felt right.

 

[jett]

Anyone have any ideas/theories on how they're going to handle Leia's character in Episode VIII? I mean the most obvious answer is that they kill her off, but would there be any other cool ways to have her exit out of the story without actually killing her off?

Johnson said that he didn't alter her role at all after her death.

 

[JCHandsom]

If you save the Kylo Ren = Ben Solo reveal for that moment then you kind of break other parts of the movie though. Like Leia telling Han that there's still good in him and talking Han into trying to save Kylo Ren. Also, I think the one-two punch of revealing Kylo as Han's child and then immediately killing Han might have been too much for one scene

I agree with this. Having the reveal be on the catwalk would have needlessly played out the "mystery" of who Kylo Ren was would have cut into the impact Han death sequence.

Plus, having Kylo talk to Vader's helmet presumably because he was a big Dark Side dude is way way less interesting than him talking to it explicitly as a grandson searching desperately for parental approval and guidance.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Who's ready for a Coen brothers Star Wars film?

Spoiler

Nobody.

 

[Inferno313]

Who's ready for a Coen brothers Star Wars film?

Spoiler

Nobody.

I would watch that shit.

 

[Toa TAK]

Who's ready for a Coen brothers Star Wars film?

Spoiler

Nobody.

You mean EVERYBODY, right?

I would step down from directing for them.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Regarding Kylo Ren, Rian Johnson or whoever follows Ep8 better not make the dumb decision of attempting to redeem him.

What inspiration did you draw from the raw footage of “The Force Awakens”?

Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist. It’s not like Kylo is our Vader. In the original trilogy, Vader is the father — he’s the one you’re afraid of and who you want the approval of. Whereas Kylo represents anger and rebellion, the sometimes healthy — and sometimes not — desire to disconnect from the parents. It’s my favorite kind of quote-unquote bad guy, because you can genuinely see what their weakness is.


Its happening.

 

[Inferno313]

Who's ready for a Coen brothers Star Wars film?

Spoiler

Nobody.

You mean EVERYBODY, right?

I would step down from directing for them.

.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

I'll run down the list:


Finn: Potential was there for a great character with the general idea of stormtrooper turned good after witnessing atrocities. Too bad that happened in an extremely rushed & unbelievable way in his very first scene, yielding minimum emotional impact. After this contrived turn, he then ends up being this somewhat bland, oftentimes annoying sidekick "You like that Phasma? I'm in charge now!", "Do something, use the Force!", "Reeeeeeyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!", picking up a lightsaber twice and getting his rear kicked, overall just failing at everything excepet for retieving Poe's jacket.

Here's why I love Finn. A lot of Star Wars fans saw themselves as a Han or Luke type, but in reality they are more like Finn, just a nerdy kid running around in space, except likely a bigger asshole.

What inspiration did you draw from the raw footage of "The Force Awakens"?

Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist. It's not like Kylo is our Vader. In the original trilogy, Vader is the father — he's the one you're afraid of and who you want the approval of. Whereas Kylo represents anger and rebellion, the sometimes healthy — and sometimes not — desire to disconnect from the parents. It's my favorite kind of quote-unquote bad guy, because you can genuinely see what their weakness is.


Its happening.

It would be pretty hard to come back from killing your own dad. Who's gonna forgive that? Hell, I always thought Vader's redemption was bullshit.

 

[JCHandsom]

Who's ready for a Coen brothers Star Wars film?

Spoiler

Nobody.

John Goodman as Sobchak the Hutt

 

[BossDarkseid]

He gets progressively worse, at the beginning of the movie he looks cool and shows how powerful he is with his Force Stasis, but then he goes all edgy teenager rage shit

And then he takes off the mask, i'm sorry but Adam Driver with his baby face is not someone i can take as a villain seriously.

That's exactly the point of him though : /

The fact they didn't try to ape Vader was intriguing, imo

 

[Inferno313]

What inspiration did you draw from the raw footage of "The Force Awakens"?

Rey and Kylo are almost two halves of our protagonist. It's not like Kylo is our Vader. In the original trilogy, Vader is the father — he's the one you're afraid of and who you want the approval of. Whereas Kylo represents anger and rebellion, the sometimes healthy — and sometimes not — desire to disconnect from the parents. It's my favorite kind of quote-unquote bad guy, because you can genuinely see what their weakness is.


Its happening.

I really struggle to find where you see "REDEMPTIVE ARC" in that quote.

 

[Davide]

Kylo is indeed the one interesting character in the movie that breaks from the shallows but I still don't find myself too invested in where he goes from here.

JJ dropped the ball for maximum impact of

Spoiler

Han Solo's death

and the reveal of Kylo Ren as

Spoiler

Ben Solo

. Having Snoke spell out to the audience that relationship early in the film was a HUGE letdown and creative mistake.

Just imagine if, despite having suspicions, the audience didn't actually know that relationship until Han Solo broke from his task, approached the catwalk that Kylo was on, and bellowed his resonant line,

Spoiler

"Ben!"

...............that would have been just below "I am your father" level of impact and would have immediately raised the stakes of the scene unexpectedly. Everything that happened afterwards would have had that much more meaning. The way it actually was handled left me feeling "meh" and not even feeling that sad when

Spoiler

Kylo impaled Han and let him fall off the catwalk

.

But then there would have never been a conversation between Han and Leia about their son which is much more important than shock value.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Its happening.

what is

 

[Plum]

If Lynch had directed RotJ it would have been 2 hours of Han Solo in carbonite whilst Luke and Leia sit behind a desk at the Rebel base. Most of the final half an hour would be dedicated to Chewie doing his Wookie taxes. The film ends with a thirty second sequence of (vague spoilers for Twin Peaks S3)

Spoiler

Han Solo waking up just to see C-3PO and some random Ewok kill The Emperor and blow up the second Death Star.

Starring: Mark Hamill

 

[firelogic]

I vote for Doug Liman.

 

[Sephzilla]

Kylo Ren being redeemed would be a bad decision. I'd much rather see Kylo Ren's obsession with being NuVader drive him further down the rabbit hole of being an evil bastard. I want to see him go down that slippery slope of trying to one-up his granddad to the point where he becomes an out of control monster.

 

[Carn82]

The fact they didn't try to ape Vader was intriguing, imo

That's why I also liked Krenic; sure, he is 'a badguy', but he is also stuck in some middle-management position while trying to advance his agenda.

 

[Lifejumper]

what is

REYLO.

 

[Inferno313]

REYLO.

hot

 

[Davide]

hot

You mean incest

 

[Toa TAK]

UGH

I'm making sure there isn't any hint of REYLO in IX.

Drewton knows what's up.

Or wait

WAIT A MINUTE

This could be great...

 

[Surfinn]

I can understand some arguments for the original cast from the OT having more CHEMISTRY, but it's hard for me to seriously consider that they had more DEPTH, in EP4.

Even still, I felt like the characters had great chemistry together, even if TFA was far too fast paced for my taste.

 

[Inferno313]

You mean incest

yeah,

hot

Spoiler

#KENOBIREY4LYFE

 

[Fluffernutter Pancake]

I agree with this. Having the reveal be on the catwalk would have needlessly played out the "mystery" of who Kylo Ren was would have cut into the impact Han death sequence.

Plus, having Kylo talk to Vader's helmet presumably because he was a big Dark Side dude is way way less interesting than him talking to it explicitly as a grandson searching desperately for parental approval and guidance.

Early rumors for Kylo's character were that he was going around collecting old Sith relics like Vader's helmet, sabers, crystals etc.

It would have been a much more interesting storyline to take that route with him for most of the film --- unclear of his motivation or who he was underneath the mask. Yes, that would have changed most of the story ---- for the better, IMO.

With that sort of backstory, his mask stays on for most of the film. It gets removed during that one scene, AFTER Han yells "Ben!" Imagine if this Dark Side user going around collecting Sith artifacts and menacing/butchering people for half the film was suddenly confronted by Han Solo by a different name? Man, the potential was there for something special...........

 

[JCHandsom]

Its happening.

I read that as Rian hinting at a "sudden realization that he was the bad guy all along" tragic fall rather than a redemption arc.

My hope is still for Kylo Ren to go batshit berserker crazy with power and guilt that he becomes less of a villain with a goal or plans and more of a monster that needs to be put down.

 

[Lizzy]

TFA handled Han's death really well. While Han is a thief with a heart of gold, he still is aggressive and impulsive. Leia is a responsible democrat and a stateswoman. You could imagine, at the end of ROTJ, that their relationship would've ended well. But realistically? They would've gone their separate ways like they did in TFA.

What Han did on that catwalk was the most selfless, responsible thing we've seen him do. It was there that he tried to own up -- and make up -- for his failures as a father and, well, himself. And he tried to do it by doing the one thing he was never good at: talking his way out of a situation.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Kylo is indeed the one interesting character in the movie that breaks from the shallows but I still don't find myself too invested in where he goes from here.

JJ dropped the ball for maximum impact of

Spoiler

Han Solo's death

and the reveal of Kylo Ren as

Spoiler

Ben Solo

. Having Snoke spell out to the audience that relationship early in the film was a HUGE letdown and creative mistake.

Just imagine if, despite having suspicions, the audience didn't actually know that relationship until Han Solo broke from his task, approached the catwalk that Kylo was on, and bellowed his resonant line,

Spoiler

"Ben!"

...............that would have been just below "I am your father" level of impact and would have immediately raised the stakes of the scene unexpectedly. Everything that happened afterwards would have had that much more meaning. The way it actually was handled left me feeling "meh" and not even feeling that sad when

Spoiler

Kylo impaled Han and let him fall off the catwalk

.

So ... in a movie that's criticized for being too much like A New Hope, your suggestion on making it better is to just copy the scene from Empire. Great job ...

There was no need to make it a twist, they just came out and said it and the movie was better for it.

I'll give you the point that maybe he should've waited until the catwalk to take off the mask.

 

[Inferno313]

Early rumors for Kylo's character were that he was going around collecting old Sith relics like Vader's helmet, sabers, crystals etc.

It would have been a much more interesting storyline to take that route with him for most of the film --- unclear of his motivation or who he was underneath the mask. Yes, that would have changed most of the story ---- for the better, IMO.

With that sort of backstory, his mask stays on for most of the film. It gets removed during that one scene, AFTER Han yells "Ben!" Imagine if this Dark Side user going around collecting Sith artifacts and menacing/butchering people for half the film was suddenly confronted by Han Solo by a different name? Man, the potential was there for something special...........

What we got was something special

 

[Lizzy]

Rey-lo isn't happening don't even joke about that.

 

[Surfinn]

TFA handled Han's death really well. While Han is a thief with a heart of gold, he still is aggressive and impulsive. Leia is a responsible democrat and a stateswoman. You could imagine, at the end of ROTJ, that their relationship would've ended well. But realistically? They would've gone their separate ways like they did in TFA.

What Han did on that catwalk was the most selfless, responsible thing we've seen him do. It was there that he tried to own up -- and make up -- for his failures as a father and, well, himself. And he tried to do it by doing the one thing he was never good at: talking his way out of a situation.

Wait.. character depth for Han Solo? In my SW?

So ... in a movie that's criticized for being too much like A New Hope, your suggestion on making it better is to just copy the scene from Empire. Great job ...

There was no need to make it a twist, they just came out and said it and the movie was better for it.

Yeah, for all the carbon copy complaints, I gotta agree here

 

[Inferno313]

Rey-lo isn't happening don't even joke about that.

Stormpilot tho...

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I read that as Rian hinting at a "sudden realization that he was the bad guy all along" tragic fall rather than a redemption arc.

Oh you mean like

(dir. Rian Johnson)

 

[Toa TAK]

Rey-lo isn't happening don't even joke about that.

I dunno, people love that shit in Game of Thrones, don't they?

Spoiler

I don't watch Game of Thrones.

 

[Fluffernutter Pancake]

But then there would have never been a conversation between Han and Leia about their son which is much more important than shock value.

If there had been ANY chemistry between Harrison & Carrie for those scenes, I might be onboard with you.

 

[JCHandsom]

Kylo Ren being redeemed would be a bad decision. I'd much rather see Kylo Ren's obsession with being NuVader drive him further down the rabbit hole of being an evil bastard. I want to see him go down that slippery slope of trying to one-up his granddad to the point where he becomes an out of control monster.

Yes. I want this to be where Kylo ends up

 

[Sephzilla]

TFA handled Han's death really well. While Han is a thief with a heart of gold, he still is aggressive and impulsive. Leia is a responsible democrat and a stateswoman. You could imagine, at the end of ROTJ, that their relationship would've ended well. But realistically? They would've gone their separate ways like they did in TFA.

What Han did on that catwalk was the most selfless, responsible thing we've seen him do. It was there that he tried to own up -- and make up -- for his failures as a father and, well, himself. And he tried to do it by doing the one thing he was never good at: talking his way out of a situation.

Yeah, Han going onto the catwalk was the best character moment for him since "I know" in Empire. I think Ford's acting got a little undersold in the movie - throughout the entire thing you got a subtle feeling that Han was broken in some way by what happened between the trilogies and, like you said, going onto the catwalk was him facing his mistakes and fears

 

[rekameohs]

He gets progressively worse, at the beginning of the movie he looks cool and shows how powerful he is with his Force Stasis, but then he goes all edgy teenager rage shit

And then he takes off the mask, i'm sorry but Adam Driver with his baby face is not someone i can take as a villain seriously.

That is literally the point of Kylo Ren.

Some generic "badass" who does flavorless bad guy stuff? That's a shitty villain. See: Phantom Menace

 

[JCHandsom]

If there had been ANY chemistry between Harrison & Carrie for those scenes, I might be onboard with you.

They don't have chemistry together because they fell out of love with each other. Their history together is what makes their scenes together interesting, because it's basically them reconciling with the fact that while things didn't work out, they still had something special once upon a time.

 

[Toa TAK]

Oh you mean like

(dir. Rian Johnson)

My heart.

I miss Breaking Bad.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If there had been ANY chemistry between Harrison & Carrie for those scenes, I might be onboard with you.

That's not the writing's fault.

Your direction basically withholds emotional arcs for both Kylo AND Han, and to a lesser degree, for Leia, for the sake of a "surprise!" moment at the end of the film that gets all of 1 minute to resonate before that connection is terminated forever.

Plus it ignores how obvious it is throughout the movie who's kid he is even if Kasdan/Abrams didn't gild the lily by having Snoke be like "HAN... SOLO" as if it wasn't going to be obvious via the location and the following hard cut back to... HAN SOLO.