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[plidex]

So I decided to finish watching the video.

Just because the mobile market is full of shitty games doesn't necessarily mean it's the reason Steam is full of shitty games, maybe the reason is that all digital markets have become easier to sell games in, and the more games there are, the more money they can make.

It's ridiculous how he implies games like the Life of Black Tiger bury the good and great releases. It may be harder in Steam for games to stand out, but on any platform, and especially on PSN, any great release will come to light.

Notion of quality over quantity.. did he just copy and paste the previous video?

Why isn't he providing any proof that the console gaming is actually moving into predatory schemes?

He names Drawn to Death, a game which was going to be F2P but has abandoned that in favor of a normal price. This would prove Sony isn't moving into the mobile market gaming ruining schemes.

If your game is so fucking good, why don't you have the balls to charge for it upfront?

I'm sorry if he absolutely nails it in the final 5 minutes of the video.

 

[7DollarHagane]

His political views are being called out because the politics he ostensibly believes in are being enacted to their natural conclusion in the mobile market, and he seems to have a problem with the result of those theories when he is not directly benefitting from them.

True, but that doesn't mean he has to just accept the way the current runs and everything is candy crush mobile strike clash of clans time wasting money pits to throw cash into endlessly.

 

[More_Badass]

True, but that doesn't mean he has to just accept the way the current runs and everything is candy crush mobile strike clash of clans time wasting money pits to throw cash into endlessly.

You have to very little experience with mobile to think that's what mobile gaming is like, or that it's nothing but shit and time wasters

 

[aeolist]

True, but that doesn't mean he has to just accept the way the current runs and everything is candy crush mobile strike clash of clans time wasting money pits to throw cash into endlessly.

it does mean that, if he doesn't want to be a massive hypocrite. it's the free market maximizing profit, he's either for that or he's not.

 

[ClayKavalier]

You have to very little experience with mobile to think that's what mobile gaming is like, or that it's nothing but shit and time wasters

What's funny is I'm sure many of these people, being GAFers, would argue that the top-selling "core" games are representative of the industry as a whole. CoD, the Division, FIFA (well that one may not count since sports games only count as games if you like sports), etc, none are really considered best-in-class or GOTY material by many people who play a lot of games, and games have a lot more to offer than what makes a bestsellers list. But saying that all mobile games are like Clash of Clans and Candy Crush is fine.

 

[MoonFrog]

Pretty much. Shitty DLC nickle-and-diming practices were a thing before the App Store even existed

And there are issues endemic to AAA gaming in a post-HD age that drive that sort of monetization. It is an issue internal to core gaming, internal to the paradigm pushed by the HD twins model of console machine, internal to AAA budgets, etc.

That's why I am confused. Where did mobile cause these money problems, these risk problems, these time problems in console gaming?

And, as has been pointed out, it is not even as if mobile introduced core gaming to the idea of new monetization...

Where is the crime mobile supposedly committed?!

...

Perhaps we can look at Japan and say "mobile killed the console market!" But, really, how much of that was the industry itself, insofar as it backed PS3/360->PS4 (and fell on the HD development and changing western tastes swords) instead of DS/3DS/PSP/Wii, how much of that was changing socio-economic conditions, in which mobile competed better (again, in no small part because Japan was splintered between producing games for the west and doing worse at it and producing games for Japan (the PS3/DS divide)).

Perhaps it is this out-competing that he is worried about?

But I don't think trends in AAA core gaming are even of a similar sort, where mobile hypothetically took their lunch so to speak, and they need to follow it down a hole to survive.

 

[Keihart]

The only thing i don't agree with his video is that micro transactions are inheretly bad, they can be a really good tool for revenue when used correctly.

Looking at games like R6S that got hammered at launch because it's asociation with them but surviving because it's actually a really great game and microtransactions are a very small non escential part of the game shows in my opinion that it just needs to be done diferently in "real" games , or games that ask more investment from the player.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Mobile gaming dragged console gaming into the future:

- instant-on gameplay resumes
- democratization of game dev & tools
- better distribution channels & policies
- the concept of buy once play on multiple devices

I mean, the list is long. Video was bad.

 

[Wensih]

He's saying Candy Crush isn't a video game, therefore people who play it aren't playing video games

Yeah I chose to not interpret that way because it's ridiculous. So I'll counter with my own ridiculous response which makes more sense than saying a mobile game isn't a video game.

 

[Flipyap]

Pretty much. Shitty DLC nickle-and-diming practices were a thing before the App Store even existed

Pretty much what? That's an example of optional, permanent and cosmetic single definite purchase DLC. Nowadays those hardly even register on the scale of scummy microtransaction practices. It got to a point where games supporting the horse armor business model look like manna from tacky hat heaven.

 

[7DollarHagane]

it does mean that, if he doesn't want to be a massive hypocrite. it's the free market maximizing profit, he's either for that or he's not.

And in the same way he's free to express his opinion that the market is getting screwed over and shouldnt accept this garbage that's being sold.

 

[bukowski81]

The video is nonsense.

Yes, mobile gaming sucks, most of the games are trash and most of the time microtransactions are really bad.

But he is basically complaining that steam, ps store and xbox marketplace are becoming very similar to the playstore and the apple store, in the sense that every year there are more and more games but of a very bad quality.

IMO he would have a point if those games were substituting the "real" games, but I dont think thats the case at all. There are as many core games released today as there has ever been. If some people are happy playing those crap games, so be it, we still get the witchers, zeldas and halos...

 

[7DollarHagane]

Mobile gaming dragged console gaming into the future:

- instant-on gameplay resumes
- democratization of game dev & tools
- better distribution channels & policies
- the concept of buy once play on multiple devices

I mean, the list is long. Video was bad.

The DS had instant on gameplay resume.

The rest were long before innovations of the PC market. The mobile market is almost exactly like PC except nobody wants to pay for anything more than a few dollars at a time.

 

[EdReedFan20]

So I decided to finish watching the video.

Just because the mobile market is full of shitty games doesn't necessarily mean it's the reason Steam is full of shitty games, maybe the reason is that all digital markets have become easier to sell games in, and the more games there are, the more money they can make.

It's ridiculous how he implies games like the Life of Black Tiger bury the good and great releases. It may be harder in Steam for games to stand out, but on any platform, and especially on PSN, any great release will come to light.

Notion of quality over quantity.. did he just copy and paste the previous video?

Why isn't he providing any proof that the console gaming is actually moving into predatory schemes?

He names Drawn to Death, a game which was going to be F2P but has abandoned that in favor of a normal price. This would prove Sony isn't moving into the mobile market gaming ruining schemes.

I'm sorry if he absolutely nails it in the final 5 minutes of the video.

To be fair, in the case of Life of Black Tiger, people probably only knew about the game because Sony, for whatever reason, uploaded an official trailer to their YouTube channel. There are plenty of games that probably deserve that kind of visibility, but don't get it. I don't think the game would've even been a part of the discussion if the game wasn't promoted in that way.

 

[duckroll]

Is he? Mostly he come in here says "GAF being dumb old GAF lol" and leaves. I have a hard time believing he takes anything said here to him or about him seriously, unless he is just putting up an lol-face in public and thinking more deeply about the issues in private.

What? I don't even know he posts here, I don't care. I'm referring to how people like him will just have to suck it up when faced with the economic reality of mobile gaming getting bigger and bigger knowing they can do nothing about it and no one will listen to them.

Reality's a bitch, suckers!

 

[many places]

"Last time I gave mobile gaming a chance was 2013". Alright.

There's been a lot of cool mobile games out since then!

 

[plidex]

To be fair, in the case of Life of Black Tiger, people probably only knew about the game because Sony, for whatever reason, uploaded an official trailer to their YouTube channel. There are plenty of games that probably deserve that kind of visibility, but don't get it. I don't think the game would've even been a part of the discussion if the game wasn't promoted in that way.

Yes, that's true, but even with the publicity it got, shitty games don't bury good games. Maybe games that are mediocre would get a bit more attention if there weren't so many games, but that's hardly ruining gaming.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

I think he should have done a separate video regarding uncurated marketplaces. Microtransactions arent going anywhere and will only increase. But MS, Sony, and Steam really need to clamp down on the flood of absolute garbage that keeps getting unceremoniously vomited onto the marketplace.

 

[More_Badass]

There's been a lot of cool mobile games out since then!

Hell, that was even before I was doing the iOS threads. Honestly you can't really talk about mobile gaming with any sense of validity if you haven't really played them in four years.

I wonder if he even played Device 6 and Sorcery. Those were 2013

 

[Mael]

I swear if the vid is BS like the others, I'm going to rant extra hard at how shit this guy is.
I'm warning you.
e: 30s in, it's already full of shit.

 

[sirap]

I've put more hours into Infinity Blade 3 than any other AAA game I own.

Guys...am I not a real gamer?

 

[plidex]

I think he should have done a separate video regarding uncurated marketplaces.

He did, he just repeated some of the things he already said.

 

[Abilidebob]

It's really really impressive how, every single time this guy has a thread here, I see myself disagreeing 100% with everything he says. Like, is he reading my mind?
"Oh, that gaffer disagrees with this notion, so I'll make a video to make him angry".

I think he should have done a separate video regarding uncurated marketplaces. Microtransactions arent going anywhere and will only increase. But MS, Sony, and Steam really need to clamp down on the flood of absolute garbage that keeps getting unceremoniously vomited onto the marketplace.

He already did. And no, they don't need to. If anything they should open the doors even more.

 

[Mael]

I'm 2min in.
He's blaming mobile for shit console gaming has been doing since before iOS even allowed inApp purchases.
He gives no dates, no references and shoot from the hip.
Some of us were there when the industry pulled the shit that's "prevalent" in the mobile space that he decries here, we haven't forgotten either.
e: 3m in, the good ole hardcore/casual split!
It's a time machine to more than 10 years ago.
Do I really need to explain why his shitty non arguments are BS?
And holy shit at his shitty argument about race to the bottom being all about mobiles when Steam sales go as far back 2009!
You can even find articles and interviews of late Iwata having a problem with the devaluation of software prices going way before mobile gaming was that prevalent.
e2: That guy doesn't even about fucking demodiscs and sharewares.
It's the most poorly researched vid I've seen this week.
And I've seen a madman ramble incoherently today for 90min!
e3 : I'm not joking, he was asleep when EA unleashed DLC hell on its ps3/360 games because they were trying to get more money from their customers?
Did this guy discover the Industry in the last 6 months or so and don't know how to read well enough that even a 5min research is too much for him?

 

[Purple Cheeto]

This guy just pulls all this shit out of his ass and then shits on actual studies and and segments with nothing to back up his claims but shitty message board stuff.

He's like a distilled NeoGAF poster in video form.

"Our industry" just makes me shake my head.

 

[cartman414]

^Has console been locking special characters/equips behind gacha mechanics though?

 

[7DollarHagane]

What? I don't even know he posts here, I don't care. I'm referring to how people like him will just have to suck it up when faced with the economic reality of mobile gaming getting bigger and bigger knowing they can do nothing about it and no one will listen to them.

Reality's a bitch, suckers!

This mentality of "sticking it to" the people who aren't in love with mobile gaming is so bizarre.

I believe that games designed first and foremost as means to get as many people as possible to pay as much money as possible for as long as possible are broadly inferior to games that offer an uninterrupted experience of play for a set price, alongside additions that are optional.

The conditioning of the average smartphone user to reject anyhing like a traditional up front pricing model for a game that does not interrupt you to ask for more money, make you wait, or make you lose is shameful and horrible. Just look at the response at Mario run daring to charge $10 for a few hours of platforming levels..

 

[Mael]

^Has console been locking special characters/equips behind gacha mechanics though?

Didn't play SSB for a long time have you?

Seriously this is the worst gaming vid I've seen this year and it doesn't look like it's going to get topped any time soon (unless I manage to suffer through another one of these BS filled vid).
He complains when there's a study showing more than half the US is playing games in a way or another but doesn't have anything to back it.
Least of all with anything resembling facts.
The only point that he raise that is close to anything valid is how the mobile market is low on winners and forces to rely on predatory tactics to succeed.
Extra Credit did that ages ago before any monkey with a camera could spout that kind of evidence.
Do I really need to go through everything to show how fucking bad that vid is?
If I do, be warned that there's going to be profanities because I don't really like having to rewatch the vid to deconstruct shitty content sentence by sentence.

 

[KojiKnight]

The mobile game business model has been nothing but cancer, especially with "gacha" types like most recently Fire Emblem Heroes.

Nintendo tried to not go this route... But go look at the Mario Run thread... We had people actually upset that Nintendo wasn't whale hunting. Upset that Nintendo asked for 10 upfront instead of nickel and diming on levels and stamina.

It was crazy.

 

[duckroll]

This mentality of "sticking it to" the people who aren't in love with mobile gaming is so bizarre.

I believe that games designed first and foremost as means to get as many people as possible to pay as much money as possible for as long as possible are broadly inferior to games that offer an uninterrupted experience of play for a set price, alongside additions that are optional.

The conditioning of the average smartphone user to reject anyhing like a traditional up front pricing model for a game that does not interrupt you to ask for more money, make you wait, or make you lose is shameful and horrible. Just look at the response at Mario run daring to charge $10 for a few hours of platforming levels..

Lol.

 

[cartman414]

Didn't play SSB for a long time have you?

Super Smash Bros.?

 

[More_Badass]

This mentality of "sticking it to" the people who aren't in love with mobile gaming is so bizarre.

That you think it's trying to "stick it to people" says a lot. If there were people saying PC is only for elitist jerks, who only play shitty indie games that only have 8-bit graphics, and need to spend thousands of dollars. Or that only causal gamers play consoles, and the only reason people like consoles is boring exclusives, and then people actually familiar with those platforms try to correct and inform, are they sticking it to people who aren't in love with PC and console games?

 

[Mael]

Super Smash Bros.?

Starting from SSBM on gamecube you had to put up with slot machines to get at least trophies.

Pokemon gated a fucking pokemon to a casino in 96!
Shitty slotmachine in exchange of fake(or real these days) tokens ain't something invented by mobile games.

And fuck anyone shitting on free2play model, I played Pokemon Picross for free for the last 6 months and just finished it without paying a cent.
People don't shit on DLC that much and that started with fucking horse armour.

 

[7DollarHagane]

That you think it's trying to "stick it to people" says a lot. If there were people saying PC is only for elitist jerks, who only play shitty indie games that only have 8-bit graphics, and need to spend thousands of dollars. Or that only causal gamers play consoles, and the only reason people like consoles is boring exclusives, and then people actually familiar with those platforms try to correct and inform, are they sticking it to people who aren't in love with PC and console games?

people like him will just have to suck it up when faced with the economic reality of mobile gaming getting bigger and bigger knowing they can do nothing about it and no one will listen to them.

Reality's a bitch, suckers!

This is made to sound like people who don't get on board with mobile are getting punished and deserve it for not being more open minded.

People are allowed to have preferences to where they play their games and how those games are designed. There isn't some obligation to treat platforms fairly and you get punished if you don't.

A valid argument against mobile gaming is as simple as "I like mechanics driven action games and those don't work well for me on a touch screen."

This is just like someone saying they don't like console shooters because they like m+KB. So if console versions sell more do we tell the PC players "realitys a bitch suckers" and they will have to get on board and be punished for their ignorance?

 

[Mael]

This is made to sound like people who don't get on board with mobile are getting punished and deserve it for not being more open minded.

People are allowed to have preferences to where they play their games and how those games are designed. There isn't some obligation to treat platforms fairly and you get punished if you don't.

A valid argument against mobile gaming is as simple as "I like mechanics driven action games and those don't work well for me on a touch screen."

This is just like someone saying they don't like console shooters because they like m+KB. So if console versions sell more do we tell the PC players "realitys a bitch suckers" and they will have to get on board and be punished for their ignorance?

That's an entirely different argument than whatever the shit this vid is peddling.
You can dislike having to interact with only a touchscreen.
It's not unreasonable to prefer games that simply don't work on some popular interface.
People who love Civ games will laugh at you for suggesting to play on a console for example.
That's different than claiming all the ills of the industry stem from 1 type of platform that you happen to dislike.

 

[duckroll]

This is just like someone saying they don't like console shooters because they like m+KB. So if console versions sell more do we tell the PC players "realitys a bitch suckers" and they will have to get on board and be punished for their ignorance?

Depends. Is the person saying it someone who repeatedly expressed their belief in free control schemes, lamenting that consoles don't support kb+m more, because people should be able to use "whatever control devices they want", and then after console versions sell more because people actually prefer controllers start throwing a hissy fit about how dangerous it is because console shooters aren't real shooters?

 

[Xist2inspire]

The backlash to Super Mario Run was sad, but to be fair, it was one of the first times a major publisher tried to slap a set price on a genre popularized by mobile gaming - the 'auto-runner'. It was practically destined to cause controversy just because of that.

 

[TLZ]

His arguments are just so stupid.

First, he's blaming mobile gaming for a bunch of crap being released on Steam? "There are 23434 more games now than there were 20 years ago!" Let's ignore all the other factors that come into play - digital distribution, easier programming tools, the multitude of more developers now than ever before, etc. Then he blames mobile for gamers not wanting to pay a lot of money for games? Perhaps there's also a general trend with media consumption towards paying less to consume more, e.g., streaming movie and music services? Or, perhaps, Steam has taught us all that games could be sold for half the price? And then he makes the completely asinine "point" that mobile gaming should be embarrassed because it brings in less money per device than console or mobile gaming (because there's so many phones in the world!!!). I can't even begin to talk about how stupid and pointless that argument even is. I mean... come on. Let's be real.

If he wanted to have a good discussion on the negative effects on mobile gaming, he should have focused solely on the predatory pricing practices of some game companies. Truly that is something that did not exist at this level until mobile gaming. Blaming mobile for increased number game releases, increased demand for cheaper games, etc. is just stupid. Out of all the issues facing the game industry, these are not it.

Allowing anyone and their grandmother to make games without any QC started on mobile didn't it? If yes, that has obviously led to the huge amount of rubbish games flooding the market. I don't know how that lead to steam but I guess it may have encouraged and influenced it?

 

[many places]

Hell, that was even before I was doing the iOS threads. Honestly you can't really talk about mobile gaming with any sense of validity if you haven't really played them in four years.

I wonder if he even played Device 6 and Sorcery. Those were 2013

Exactly. There's been many quality titles released since then. Along with the two you listed, Downwell, Able Black, Monument Valley, and Mario Run are all great games. Two of those are on steam/ps4 as well but I believe they were mobile first.

 

[Quonny]

His first point is elitist bullshit, even though he claims it isn't. We might all be gamers, but good lord, no one is going to confuse Mass Effect for Bubble Witch Saga 3. Publishers aren't going to advertise to both markets the same way. Stupid argument.

His second point makes no sense. Mobile gaming might have slightly accelerated the garbage games being dumped, but this would have happened no matter what, and likely around the same time. Easy game development tools have infinitely more impact than any mobile gaming impact.

His third point is all over the place, but I guess it's about how predatory some games are? I mean, yeah, they are. No one's excusing it. But implemented correctly, stuff like lootboxes can be alright. You're seeing the pushback already. It'll balance out.

His final point isn't a point, but a shot on mobile gaming. "Look at how little money mobile makes when you look at it a little deeper!" Okay. Cool. Not sure what that has to do with anything. Just wanted to make snarky comments about whales.

He has made some good videos before, but this one was a swing and a miss. He just wanted to bitch about how he didn't get Camilla in Fire Emblem Heroes.

 

[ArtHands]

True, but that doesn't mean he has to just accept the way the current runs and everything is candy crush mobile strike clash of clans time wasting money pits to throw cash into endlessly.

But not everything is candy crush mobile strike clash of clans

Apple even have a page currently if you are not looking for great non-f2p games

 

[Spectone]

I couldn't keep watching that video. Micro transactions existed before mobile, they came from online gaming on PC. Look at games like Entropia Universe which was released in 2003.

 

[ChasingComets]

^Has console been locking special characters/equips behind gacha mechanics though?

COD/Overwatch/CSGO loot crates? Fifa's Ultimate team? These are just off the top of my head.

 

[oti]

.

If your game is so fucking good, why don't you have the balls to charge for it upfront?

Does he seriously say that? In this market environment? lol

Isn't he a super free markets guy? Shouldn't he know better than this?

 

[plidex]

Does he seriously say that? In this market environment? lol

Isn't he a super free markets guy? Shouldn't he know better than this?

Yeah, he is supposed to be an industry expert. That's why I couldn't keep watching.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Uhh... Hmm.

Play any fighting game in Story mode on any setting higher than the lowest then come back to me. Or play any old-school RTS campaign on, let's say third difficulty (out of 5) then discuss this point again.

Also, yes, gaming is a high-skill category. It's the reason such a thing as E-Sports exists. If it wasn't, nobody would care.

Whaaaaaaat?

What a bizarre mindset you have.

 

[oti]

Yeah, he is supposed to be an industry expert. That's why I couldn't keep watching.

To be fair, I'd bet most traditional video game journalist have no clue about the mobile market either. But they aren't releasing videos saying they're experts on it so...

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Gacha games sometimes disgust me more than actual gambling does; at least with gambling there's no pretense and people understand that it's psychologically exploitative and addictive.

Now most mobile games are not gacha games obviously. But they usually are the ones with the most cultural mindshare and income.

The mobile industry is long overdue for a regulatory reckoning. The kind of raw psychological manipulation that goes on there is not something we should be happy about.

 

[oti]

Gacha games disgust me more than actual gambling does; at least with gambling there's no pretense.

I think many of the F2P mechanics are highly questionable and it they weren't making so much money, there would be a bigger push against them in politics at this point.

I do wonder if this party will stop eventually. But the entire Mobile Games market would implode.

 

[ArtHands]

I think many of the F2P mechanics are highly questionable and it they weren't making so much money, there would be a bigger push against them in politics at this point.

I do wonder if this party will stop eventually. But the entire Mobile Games market would implode.

its 2017 and people are still praying that it will implode. Wow