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Combat in MMORPG's
- Thread starter Barzul
- Start date
Still tab-targeting, which just doesn't usually work too well with action combat.
TharpDaddy
Member
I don't think it's tab targeted. Most of what i've seen from the live streams and videos has it mostly being free targeting. You can tab target to keep track of a monster and their health, but beyond that it's all free movement/aiming.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The TAB key is not your friend in MMOs, and never was. Clicking never failed you.
Newer games are getting better but they still do feel disconnected compared to non mmo combat. Generally the games don't have any form of hit reaction. I think in some ways charge and drag melee combat like AC and GW1 feels a bit better than the unrestricted free aim WASD melee being implemented in newer games like GW2. Either way games like GW2 are doing it way better than vanilla wow at least. Etheral players and monsters are a recipe for crap, people need to bump into shit to make combat feel good.
Looking at the non interactive part of the systems and dice rolls it is hard to get team fights and solo fights to both work well. Games with good solo have really zerg like team fights.
Looking at the non interactive part of the systems and dice rolls it is hard to get team fights and solo fights to both work well. Games with good solo have really zerg like team fights.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
My favorite MMO combat is EverQuest. I liked that slower pace. The ability to type to chat to your party. Not having to juggle billions of abilities.
Either way, I like most types of conventional MMORPG combat.
Real time combat in MMORPGs has been universally terrible. Each attempt to add action elements has been a horrible failure. I really don't see the appeal of trying to hamfist it in.
Either way, I like most types of conventional MMORPG combat.
Real time combat in MMORPGs has been universally terrible. Each attempt to add action elements has been a horrible failure. I really don't see the appeal of trying to hamfist it in.
You are correct. After some research, apparently the game was traditional targeting until recently and they are still in the process of switching to free action.
Mercury Fred
Banned
DCUO has a great combat system.
Riposte
Member
I think FFXIV: ARR combat is not only poorly designed (a poor attempt at imitating WoW (that wouldn't please anyone really into WoW's combat during one time or another), like most other MMOs that go free to play), but I think 95% of the encounter design the game puts you through is extremely dull. It's pseudo-twitchy (running out of circles, running to spots, get fucked over by lag constantly, etc.), while still slowing the player down with awkward cooldown timers and "tab-targeting" mechanics. It is also full of uninteresting and meaningless stat choices (gear could not be more boring) and actions/traits. This is made worse by the fact it doesn't care about being fun outside of dungeons and will have you do brainless solo MMO-style quests with zero difficulty within the main story even after you fought a tougher party boss like Garuda (this fucks with the game's story/pacing of the isolated "main scenario" questline too). FATEs are especially lazy and that's when they are not being overpopulated - where they become too terrible to describe (the flaws of "public quest" systems are nothing new since they've been around for awhile and have never quite worked well, but just as they mindlessly adopted another form of combat without considerably changing it, they adopted this flawed system wholesale).
This is especially unfortunate for me because FFXIV 1.24 was a significant advancement of FFXI's more unique (although slower, more strategical) combat (and had WAY more interesting actions/traits) and would love have seen a whole game designed around it instead of a rush job to make a broken game work (although the period where they were fixing the game had a better storyline and final battle than the NES-era FF one we got). In a sense, the aspects of FFXI and earlier FFXIV with the potential to create a new audience were completely thrown out (instead of being modernized) while chasing a formula known to fail (as P2P) again and again. Had rants about this in the past... EDIT: I'll just quote this part describing the changes made to Paladin:
(That said, it has crazy nice aesthetics and the world (or lore team) inherited from 1.x is very interesting, although they are determined to flood it with cash-shop-esque fan-service (and Toriyama-service) and over-sexualized outfits as per usual MMO tackiness. I just trashed the game, but I have my reasons why I plan on returning to it once in awhile. Combat (or any aspect of the mechanics, really) is not a strong one.)
This is especially unfortunate for me because FFXIV 1.24 was a significant advancement of FFXI's more unique (although slower, more strategical) combat (and had WAY more interesting actions/traits) and would love have seen a whole game designed around it instead of a rush job to make a broken game work (although the period where they were fixing the game had a better storyline and final battle than the NES-era FF one we got). In a sense, the aspects of FFXI and earlier FFXIV with the potential to create a new audience were completely thrown out (instead of being modernized) while chasing a formula known to fail (as P2P) again and again. Had rants about this in the past... EDIT: I'll just quote this part describing the changes made to Paladin:
(That said, it has crazy nice aesthetics and the world (or lore team) inherited from 1.x is very interesting, although they are determined to flood it with cash-shop-esque fan-service (and Toriyama-service) and over-sexualized outfits as per usual MMO tackiness. I just trashed the game, but I have my reasons why I plan on returning to it once in awhile. Combat (or any aspect of the mechanics, really) is not a strong one.)
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Tera is the only MMORPG where I truly loved the combat and felt it took a modicum of skill/timing. Sure some others need timing, but they are usually slower combat systems and don't feel like "action" the way TERA does.
It also doesn't take a ton of grinding/farming to look good. I hate having ugly clothes in MMOs.
when one of my characters was like level 16 or so he looked like this
Depending on my current class, I liked WoW combat well enough.
Last time I played I was a dual wielding Deathknight, so it was basically non stop button hammering. Felt more like I was playing guitar hero then an actual RPG or action game, but it always kept me paying attention to the screen I guess.
Last time I played I was a dual wielding Deathknight, so it was basically non stop button hammering. Felt more like I was playing guitar hero then an actual RPG or action game, but it always kept me paying attention to the screen I guess.
chickdigger802
Banned
man is ff14RR dull. it does many things good, but combat is yeesh. its traditional cooldown mmo with a extremely long gcd for no good reason.
I just picked up FF14 over the weekend and this is what gets me. The GCD is slow as shit. Makes the instant cast abilities feel awful.
Enjoying it well enough so far though.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
How could I forget Rusty Hearts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZVr8VNGljk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZVr8VNGljk
I personally enjoy the combat in FFXIV and GW2. I'm enjoy all elements of both games at that. Both PVE and PVP. The main reason I play MMO's is to explore though. I absolutely love my exploration.
Edit: I should add I stopped playing Guild Wars 2 in favor of FFXIV though. I can only play one of those games and because Arenanet has only added 1 new zone in the course of the games release? I'll stick with FF. That and because FF is just that damn good.
Edit: I should add I stopped playing Guild Wars 2 in favor of FFXIV though. I can only play one of those games and because Arenanet has only added 1 new zone in the course of the games release? I'll stick with FF. That and because FF is just that damn good.
Matrix XII
Member
I've really enjoyed the combat of Guild Wars 2.
You'll regret it. Terrible game.
It's a league above the rest, for sure.
Likewise. Tera's combat just didn't feel right to me, having to stand still while an animation executes made battles feel kind of janky.
Plus, there's no going back to the ultra-generic kill 10 rats questing after you've seen dynamic events in action.
That bad? Guess I'll just wait for whatever Blizzard does next and stick with Diablo 3 for now.
Unless there's no dynamic event happening near you in which case you're stuck doing a "Renown Heart" which is otherwise known as "ultra-generic kill 10 rats questing". I don't really think dynamic events are that great either to tell the truth.
I'm bitter though since I thought the PvP was terrible.
I feel the same way. I thought the EverQuest combat was fantastic, still do. As of late I've played D&D:O, Tera & GW2 and thought the combat was pretty mediocre in all of them. I'd love a big budget old-school style MMO. Because of the shift MMOs have had lately I have a feeling that'll happen soon enough. Even a top down style MMO in the vein of old Runescape or Tibia with current generation enhancements could be amazing.
I just redownloaded this and I am actually having an extremely good time. Good break from FFXIV.
pretty done
Member
FFXI had the best combat because I could make sandwiches whilst playing DRK.
Gintoki313
Banned
Guild Wars 2, DC Universe Online, and Tera are some of my favorite battle systems.
I like the option of being mobile while in combat. I like to move around the battlefield and launch spells or melee attacks at people. Just sitting and pressing buttons doesn't amuse me anymore. Also Tera and DCUO has controller support which is a plus in my book. I love playing MMO's with a controller.
I like the option of being mobile while in combat. I like to move around the battlefield and launch spells or melee attacks at people. Just sitting and pressing buttons doesn't amuse me anymore. Also Tera and DCUO has controller support which is a plus in my book. I love playing MMO's with a controller.
Yes: WoW, which is why it's so popular. It has better combat than most single player games and it's extremely responsive despite being an online game.
You can see just how responsive it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJiY3qV9-k&feature=player_detailpage#t=129
Edit: I'll link a few more:
A more hectic fight, Ascendant Council, where you have to fight multiple bosses and attune yourself to various elements in order to survive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH3-59DEEvU&feature=player_detailpage#t=175
Another bullet hell fight, Valkyr Twins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLjyNQ__0aY
Here's a crazy fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt5uaRYiFSY
Anyway, the gameplay is tight enough that what you're seeing here--called "raiding" (dungeons)--is a competitive worldwide sport. People get sponsored to do these dungeons/bosses, etc.
That actually looks pretty good. Never played WoW.
Well, the purpose of the Renown Hearts is to just give you a point on the map to head towards where Dynamic events are likely to occur. They also have multiple objectives, so even if they did say "Kill rats" you'd also have a handful of other things that contribute to completion. Since Dynamic Event progression counts towards Reknown Heart completion as well (since the goal is to get you to an event hotspot, remember) you can basically kill two birds with one stone.
The idea is "Come here! and if there's no event, there's still something you can do instead of waiting."
For what it's worth, GAF's own Hawkian has developed controller support for Guild Wars 2, which you can read about here.
It's not coming out in the US for a while, but Blade & Soul's combat polishes up what made TERA's so good, it's also a great deal flashier.
Actually from what I've seen/heard/played, it's definitely a downgrade from Tera's combat.
Nod to Vindictus and Dragon's Nest. TERA had too many buttons for me. I don't want to do a DPS rotation.
Vindictus is enjoyable and the leveling feels reduced than previous. I think all the physics stuff holds up well and it's pretty enjoyable to play most of the starting classes through a pretty decent chunk of the game.
Always fun to fight the first boss and realize it can kill you in 3 hits 'oh shit oh shit oh shit.
I've never gotten tired of the charge hammer or kick or countering.
Drive by posts, whoosh.
Vindictus is enjoyable and the leveling feels reduced than previous. I think all the physics stuff holds up well and it's pretty enjoyable to play most of the starting classes through a pretty decent chunk of the game.
Always fun to fight the first boss and realize it can kill you in 3 hits 'oh shit oh shit oh shit.
I've never gotten tired of the charge hammer or kick or countering.
Yeah last I played it was extremely lenient with the blade class and the Monk was the one that really felt like a fast counter class, but I didn't play all that much. It's too much of a normal MMO outside the slightly upgraded system, nice art/world, and wind/wallrunning everywhere.
Rapture
Member
I'd probably have to go with GW2 for my favorite combat system, then again i tend to solo and it really lends itself to that. Not to mention since its a buy once - no subscription type of game i can leave when i get bored and return when i need to sate my MMO fix. GAF guild seems to be pretty active still too.
Well... yeah... I play FFXIV but can't say I disagree with this post (alough I wasn't a 1.0 player, so dunno about the comparisons).
I read many posts praising 1.24 BS, as a FFXI I would have loved to experience it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVO9txz1zb4
2007 MMO.
Still offers the best 2.5D combat system, pvp balance I'd played. Much better than Dragon Nest in that aspect. Went down the drain inevitably though, like all MMO. As far as boss battle goes, Ys is better.
2007 MMO.
Still offers the best 2.5D combat system, pvp balance I'd played. Much better than Dragon Nest in that aspect. Went down the drain inevitably though, like all MMO. As far as boss battle goes, Ys is better.
Riposte
Member
Did anyone play Continent of the Ninth? I know that it finally got localized after a few years, but I think a lot of people said it was generic compared to Mahbo-w/e Heroes/Vindictus, but I think the initial Korean release preceded that. Back when I was pretending to be Korean so the game tricked me I was impressed by the action game mechanics (it was novel to me) and the Demon's Souls PvP mechanics (this was only a few months after Demon's Souls came out in the west).
Slamtastic
Member
If only this game came out...(unless it did?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA0vxOaXaLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4psvjDCUXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA0vxOaXaLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4psvjDCUXo
Sorry to beat the dead horse, but I'd like to chime in as well. I had a few (major, and gamebreaking for me) issues with XIV's battle system:
- The 2.5 global cooldown makes combat too slow-paced.
- The game itself is not responsive enough. When you press an ability, it doesn't activate immediately. There is a latency-related pause before the ability activates. This makes combat sluggish, and in the case of Europeans, impossible. Most European players cannot do endgame dungeons/bosses because they have so much latency that the game completely desyncs from their client.
- The abilities in general are boooooooriiiiiiiing. The abilities are so basic and so typical that they had me asking, "This is it?"
- The class/job system, in the end, is just convoluted. It's not fun and it's not interesting.
- The bosses may be a challenge for MMO newcomers, but they are an absolute bore for those who have played other MMOs. Virtually every fight in XIV is "kill the adds" or "don't stand in the red circle/line", and that is a huge shame considering the game uses a brand new engine that should support interesting new mechanics, not mechanics that MMOs had 10 years ago.
Vindictus isn't bad - it's just that once you hit higher level content the grind for better things isn't worth it. I played it for like two and a half years and dropped the game earlier in the year since I didn't like where the game was trending in regards to stats and such.
Riposte
Member
The class + job system is fine and could differentiate the game in a good way (and also keep it more balanced compared to other multi-class systems), but it works entirely on the strength of the actions, which isn't very strong creatively speaking as we both realize. For the most part, it is unexplored potential.
EDIT: 1.24 had more breathing room for multi-class design because classes weren't so straight forward. Thaumaturge/Black Mage could get useful stuff from Pugilist because they both needed a "dodge buff" (a panic button for BLM) that also recovered MP upon dodging. In ARR, stats and actions were streamlined to the point that melee and mages actions can't interact on this level. Unfortunately, they also haven't design actions so that they have particular uses even within their stricter format (e.g. a WAR doesn't use a GLD ability in a creative way, it just gets a flat buff that is bound to be weaker without trait).
Unknown Soldier
Banned
Tera had amazing combat. Too bad about the whole rest of the game.
This x10000000000. Was exactly what I was going to say pretty much. Would've loved to keep playing it, but yeah.