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Comic Amy Schumer responds to being called out for racially insensitive jokes

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Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
One example:

“Nothing works 100% of the time, except Mexicans”
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dsAuUL0.png
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How does this make you feel? One might agree that more context is necessary.

Given the recent discussions around political correctness in comedy, this raises yet more questions about comedic criticism and whether the tonedeafness resides in the comic, the audience, or a little bit of both.

For the record, let's establish some generally accepted principles so we don't have to rehash those old talking points again.

1. The pretense of "joking" doesn't give you carte blanche to "be an asshole", as it is commonly said.

2. A segment of our population apparently has an incredibly stunted sense/appreciation of humor.

3. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism, and criticism of jokes doesn't mean banning comics. Likewise, the criticism of the criticism is fine, and doesn't mean shutting up critics or marginalized groups, nor is the equivalent to 'oh noes the PC police are here'.

4. Too much unreasonable or unfounded criticism can lead to a 'chilling effect' that does in fact impair freedom of speech in the general sense of the term. Similarly, not speaking up about blatantly offensive jokes passively condones an environment that is more hostile than funny, and usually at the expense of the few and powerless.​


Here's the full story:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/amy-...ints-about-her-having-blind-spot-around-race/

The Guardian has a column up this weekend, written by Monica Heisey, who writes a lot about Schumer’s amazing successes and ability to pull off “funny, feminist, mainstream entertainment.”

But amid all the praise of Schumer’s talents, Heisey writes, “Schumer has a shockingly large blind spot around race.” She calls out a series of “tactless” jokes Schumer’s made, including the line, “I used to date Latino guys. Now I prefer consensual.”
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http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/jun/28/amy-schumer-comedys-viral-queen

For such a keen observer of social norms and an effective satirist of the ways gender is complicated by them, Schumer has a shockingly large blind spot around race. Her lacklustre stint hosting the MTV Movie awards (a rare misstep) featured lazy jokes about Latina women being “crazy” that left Jennifer Lopez as unimpressed as the online commentariat. While a much-lauded sketch from the show featured an ad for a training centre where old people learn not to be racist, Schumer’s stand-up repeatedly delves into racial territory tactlessly and with no apparent larger point. Her standup special features jokes like “Nothing works 100% of the time, except Mexicans” and much of her character’s dumb slut persona is predicated on the fact that the men she sleeps with are people of colour. “I used to date Latino guys,” she says in an older stand-up routine. “Now I prefer consensual.”

Schumer has said that she’s not worried about the show upsetting people because viewers know “we have good intentions”, but as Anne Thériault wrote for the Daily Dot: “Amy Schumer frequently makes jokes that perpetuate stereotypes rather than dismantle them … It’s hard not to feel like Schumer is only here for women who look like her.”
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http://theweek.com/articles/560613/amy-schumer-isnt-feminist-internet-thinks
While Schumer is undoubtedly funny and talented, a lot of her work seems like the same old BS being sold to us in glossy feminist packaging. Of course, it's wonderful to see a woman succeeding in mainstream comedy, but that shouldn't put her beyond criticism.

It seems like people are quick to turn a blind eye to Schumer's more troublesome work because she's one of the "good" ones. But how good can a comedian be when they're using their platform to punch down? Of course, everyone is flawed and no one is perfect, but not making racist jokes is pretty basic. And the same goes for perpetuating harmful stereotypes about women.

A good feminist icon is hard to find, but frankly, we can do better than Amy Schumer. Not only that, but we deserve better.
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/amy-...ints-about-her-having-blind-spot-around-race/

Well, Schumer fired back today, tweeting “Put down your torches before reading this so you don’t catch on fire” and posting images of her lengthy defense of her comedy.

Here’s what Schumer had to say:
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https://twitter.com/amyschumer/status/615182173570633728/photo/1

Amy said:
I am a comic. I am so glad more people are laughing at me and with me all of a sudden. I will joke about things you like and I will joke about things you aren’t comfortable with. And that’s ok. Stick with me and trust I am joking. I go in and out of playing an irreverent idiot. That includes making dumb jokes involving race.

I enjoy playing the girl who time to time says the dumbest thing possible and playing with race is a thing we are not supposed to do, which is what makes it so fun for comics. You can call it a “blind spot for racism” or “lazy” but you are wrong. It is a joke and it is funny. I know that because people laugh at it. Even if you personally did not.

I am not going to start joking about safe material. And don’t ask that of me. I love what I do and won’t let anyone take that away. I ask you to resist the urge to pick me apart.

Trust me. I am not racist. I am a devout feminist and lover of all people. My fight is for all people to be treated equally. So move on to the next person who is more deserving of your scrutiny and not the girl in your corner.

Sincerely Amy (a dirty half Jew)
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So how does this fall into place among the context of the Jerry Seinfeld thread where he said that the overly sensitive aspects of PC culture is having a detrimental effect on comedy? The reason I bring this up is because Schumer was used many times as an example of a comic who "gets it" and crafts jokes in a way using contemporary comedic theory that old farts like Seinfeld aren't clever enough to understand.

Where does Schumer's comedy fall here? Is she a hit on most topics? Is she a hit on feminism-based comedy, but a miss on race-based comedy? The Daily Dot article is actually criticizing her feminist comedy too, from the position that is critical of white feminism.

Or do the authors just "don't get it"? This is the hard thing. If the comics "don't get it", then criticism of them is helpful to improve their comedy game. If the audience "doesn't get it", then their criticism is unfounded and contributes to a chilling effect from misguided outrage. Given the subjectivity of the medium, where each case stands on this spectrum can vary wildly from person to person.

So what do you think? Is Schumer an example of comedy done right, as is commonly praised for? Or, is she getting cheap laughs by "punching down", as the author of the Daily Dot article says?

Here is a snippet of Schumer's stand-up regarding race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRp3DJqDfOw

Here is a (sort of) defense of Amy from Think Progress.

http://thinkprogress.org/culture/20...-amy-schumers-alleged-blind-spot-around-race/

What Schumer is describing here is a tricky feat and, as she writes in her defense, you have to trust her. But I’d argue that Schumer’s sketches and jokes about race aren’t making fun of the minority group in question: they are making fun of the ignorance or discomfort that a specific type of white girl has about people of color.
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When Schumer plays the girl — for lack of a better term of art, Amy is playing That Girl, as in, “Don’t be that girl” — and she’s leaning hard into unflattering-at-best stereotypes about people of color, the joke is on the white girl. The person who looks bad is not the person of color but the character Amy is playing. You don’t walk away from those jokes thinking: Wow, she seems like a real smart cookie, I’m sure everything she’s saying is 100 percent accurate. You cringe on her behalf, and maybe, if you have ever been or been around That Girl, you feel a twinge of recognition.

Whether or not she it pulls off is a matter of taste, though as Schumer writes, she can tell the jokes are working because people laugh. If you watch clips of her standup, you’ll see that she’s telling the truth. Maybe her audiences are predominately white; maybe whoever wouldn’t find those jokes funny wouldn’t find themselves in the crowd to begin with. But if people didn’t laugh, she’d cut the jokes out of her set.

“I’m a comedian” is not an absolute defense against bad taste. It’s not a Get Out Of Jail Free Card. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. And when comedians try to justify why a joke doesn’t land, plenty opt out of allowing for the possibility that the joke was poorly constructed but choose to respond to that criticism with, “Well, the problem is you, the audience, not me, the performer.” Often this takes the form of insisting that people didn’t laugh at some racist, homophobic or misogynist thing because people are politically correct to the point of being humorless. This was the gist of Jerry Seinfeld’s recent explanation for no longer playing campuses: college students are “way too P.C.”
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The really questionable lines here are not in the bulk of Schumer’s work but in her response post: “Trust me. I am not a racist. I am a devout feminist and lover of all people. My fight is for all people to be treated equally.” Amy’s feminist bondafides are well established; she has arguably done as much, if not more, to advance conversations about feminism in 2015 than anyone else out there. But feminist cred isn’t a shield against accusations of racism. I don’t think Schumer’s jokes are racist, but I also don’t think “I’m a feminist” is a good way of refuting that claim.
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C

CarpeDeezNutz

Member
Isn't that actually a praise? Maybe cos I am Mexican and have worked at construction jobs I see it differently. Like, we get in and work.


Another funny one is how rednecks say "Mexicans start working at a big rig and have more parts left out" I think my days working in oil fields changed me.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Amy used to have a way more hard-edged mean persona in her stand-up and other appearances that she's transitioned away from in recent years- and the change has been for the better.
 
A

Alienous

Member
You can joke about everything or nothing.

Being offended is too subjective to bend a knee too. When you know the intent is humour like or dislike it, but understand where it is coming from.
 
V

Voysa Reezun

Banned
Rentahamster said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRp3DJqDfOw

Here is a sample of her racial comedy. What do you think?
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I think if she were funnier, she could get away with it, at least in these instances. I'm not much an Amy Schumer fan, but I also do think that material that is genuinely funny would get more of a pass.

I have heard Louis CK say things that I'm surprised he gets away with, for example, but then again, I realize that it's funny.

"Stop yelling, we're not at the movies" isn't very funny to me.

"If you can't enjoy a horror movie high and surrounded by black people, then you can't enjoy life" (and I forget where I saw or heard this) is funny to me. But it's all so subjective that, while it's worth talking about, I'm not sure how we'll ever come to any type of consensus.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Wait, are we talking about a well-off white feminist woman who only cares about well-off white women's problems?

Color me shocked.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
don't really know her but is she like lisa lampanelli? basically date minorities and then make her standup set almost nothing but racial jokes?
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Comedians and social justice activists are like negative and positive ends of a magnet who just inevitably slam into each other.

The comedians attitude is to say intentionally provocative things using the most potent taboos of our society (ie racism) because the greatest pain elicits the greatest laugh.

The social activist attitude is to treat media output with as little humor and as much concern as possible, condemning each little mention of social inequality as if it were a poison droplet that will negatively impact the ocean of society.

One's job is actually to offend. The others' job is actually to get offended. They're made for each other <3
 
Z

Zeyphersan

Banned
I'm a pretty big fan of Schumer, but was very disappointed with her response on Twitter when I read it. Essentially a giant "It's a joke, leave me alone."

Schumer is at her best when she's deconstructing something, like in the "Last Fuckable Day" skit. Or even when she's just being funny without a real target, like the "Finger Blasters" sketch, or the one where she has to call into the cable company because her internet went out

I still like her and like a lot of her work, but damn if that Twitter justification didn't leave a sour taste in my mouth
 
K

kirblar

Member
Rentahamster said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRp3DJqDfOw

Here is a sample of her racial comedy. What do you think?
Click to expand...
I get what she's going for here - the "black friend" and inability to remember the friend's name point to this being something where the joke's supposed to be on the "Amy Schumer" persona. Keeping "Amy Schumer" and casual white racism as the butt of the joke is a really tough and important thing to do with this type of material, and I don't think she succeeds 100% here in doing that - especially on the Google joke.
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
Context is king. In a situation where a comic is being harsh for laughs, and the expectation is such, I don't think it can be perceived fairly as offensive. A prime example of this is Jimmy Car. The guy makes the most incredibly insensitive jokes covering just about everything, but the expectation is that he will do so, it is his style, and therefore not intended to cause offense. It is not stated with malice or belief.
 
Ecto311

Ecto311

Member
Rentahamster said:
For the record, let's establish some generally accepted principles so we don't have to rehash those old talking points again.

1. The pretense of "joking" doesn't give you carte blanche to "be an asshole", as it is commonly said.

2. A segment of our population apparently has an incredibly stunted sense/appreciation of humor.

3. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism, and criticism of jokes doesn't mean banning comics. Likewise, the criticism of the criticism is fine, and doesn't mean shutting up critics or marginalized groups, nor is the equivalent to 'oh noes the PC police are here'.

4. Too much unreasonable or unfounded criticism can lead to a 'chilling effect' that does in fact impair freedom of speech in the general sense of the term. Similarly, not speaking up about blatantly offensive jokes passively condones an environment that is more hostile than funny, and usually at the expense of the few and powerless.​
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First I am offended that you called her a comedian - that implies that she says/does funny things. This person has never made me laugh.

Second - Those are "generally accepted principles"? By who? I never accepted those. I think jokes can be made about anything and if I don't get them then the joke isn't for me and I move on. There are a shitload of comic made podcasts that talk about this all the time. Some of my favorite comedians say some really racial or offensive shit according to certain groups or bloggers. Doesn't mean it is in the wrong because it made me laugh and not the other person. It is for me not them at that point.

"...Stunted sense/appreciation of humor" - How is that even a thing? Who are you or anyone to classify how we find things funny?

To me being a fan of stand-up or comedy in general is about finding the few people that always make you laugh. Brian regan sucks to me and so does Tosh. They are totally different as far as writing or performing but both have something I don't like about them. Dave attell and Mitch headburg being similar are 100x more funny to me but they do their job/craft differently. I don't understand the internet backlash over people telling jokes. There are much more important issues to be addressed than a non funny chick telling jokes about race - yet there is a lazer focus on her saying things that people got upset about. The jokes were not for you people so move on - or better yet why not move on? Nothing else to bitch about?

Also to me a big thing is intent. Is the intent of the joke to hurt them? Is there malice and hate behind the joke or is it just aimed at them to be funny? Maybe it's because I have a job, wife, kid and little time to care that much.
 
F

freenudemacusers

Member
BibiMaghoo said:
Context is king. In a situation where a comic is being harsh for laughs, and the expectation is such, I don't think it can be perceived fairly as offensive. A prime example of this is Jimmy Car. The guy makes the most incredibly insensitive jokes covering just about everything, but the expectation is that he will do so, it is his style, and therefore not intended to cause offense. It is not stated with malice or belief.
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well what works in carr's advantage in his standup is, IMO, that he's essentially just running through punchlines/one-liners so quickly and so broadly it's hard to see them as anything but jokes for jokes sake*, while someone going on a multi-minute riff might come off differently. like old school dice clay etc.


*jeselnik does this too, but slows it down enough just to toe the line, IMO.
 
K

Karl_Dilkington7

Banned
ZackieChan said:
Isn't it saying the opposite?

And I don't get the other one - are Latino's known as rapists? I've never heard that one.
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He is. I just think if your going to make fun of a stereotype at least be accurate.

I have actually heard that one. Since I live in the good ol' south, I've heard a lot of shit. Stuff like "The reasons why hotel have bed bugs is because of immigrants, crime has risen since immigrants have moved in." (when in reality crime has fallen) I could go on...shit gets old.
 
C

Chuck Norris

Banned
Looking at the video example it's mostly harmless observational humour.

I personally think the best comedy is about pushing buttons and getting reactions that are almost uncomfortable while still being funny
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Rentahamster said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRp3DJqDfOw

Here is a sample of her racial comedy. What do you think?
Click to expand...

I'm just shaking my head at this. It's not even funny. Racist even, holy shit. Like....what the fuck is the joke about? Then she segues into a Mexican joke and it's like...the fuck?

I'm not one to call out politically incorrect, but holy shit she's not even funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M&feature=youtu.be
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Atleast he's self-aware. Not laugh out loud funny, but it wasn't as bad as 'My friend Tempora or Tapioca(I have black friends it's ok)' or whatever schumer was trying to get across.
 
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