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Confirmed 1080p games (and framerate / release date if known)????

fortified_concept said:
Oh for god's sake when will people understand the difference between 1080p upscaled and native? Just because some fanboy at OA claimed that SC: DA and DOA4 are 1080p native it doesn't make it the truth. If there was a X360 1080p game we would know it. Moonwalker please stop quoting bullshit from idiots at the internets, unless you have a credible link.

I know a lot of gaffers don't have 1080p sets to see for themselves, a quote is not gonna change the fact that people right now can set the output to 1080p and perceive an increase in resolution/detail. You don't get that I'm sorry from upscaling. I know perfectly well the difference between an upscaled 720p source and a 1080p one. I have done extensive testing the last couple of days with several games.

Just try it for yourself, i guarantee you will see a difference.
 
lips said:
Agreed, ofcourse, there is no chip that exists with unlimited bandwidth. 1080p with aa does make use of finite resources. I could only say that rsx can make use of the largest available memory accessable bandwidth for textures and largest prefetch cache. There is a world of difference in technological advancement of pre-fetch over post proccess collection in a daughter die, and rsx has this advancement. I could imagine a future of many more 1080p games, and when I realize the possibilities, the results could be imense.

0_o Very Interesting.




BTW - Is AA really needed that much for 1080p? If it isn't that noticeable of a difference, I say just skip it. That way, people running with 720p TVs get 'free' super sampling.
 
Moonwalker said:
I know a lot of gaffers don't have 1080p sets to see for themselves, a quote is not gonna change the fact that people right now can set the output to 1080p and perceive an increase in resolution/detail. You don't get that I'm sorry from upscaling. I know perfectly well the difference between an upscaled 720p source and a 1080p one. I have done extensive testing the last couple of days with several games.

Just try it for yourself, i guarantee you will see a difference.

I asked before, but you didn't answer.


Do you notice any difference in motion artifacts from running at 1080i before the dashboard update ... and running at 1080p after the update?
 
Yeah onix 1080p with no AA is still jaggy, especially when you increase polygon detail.

This is why i think if a developer can't enable at least 2xAA on 1080p then they would be far better off using that bandwidth to enable 4xAA at 720p. Overall it will look cleaner and everyone with a hdtv could enjoy the extra image quality.
 
Moonwalker said:
I know a lot of gaffers don't have 1080p sets to see for themselves, a quote is not gonna change the fact that people right now can set the output to 1080p and perceive an increase in resolution/detail. You don't get that I'm sorry from upscaling. I know perfectly well the difference between an upscaled 720p source and a 1080p one. I have done extensive testing the last couple of days with several games.

Just try it for yourself, i guarantee you will see a difference.

1) I don't have a 1080p TV or X360 yet.

2) Even if I had I'd still wouldn't waste my time doing it because if the games were 1080p we would know it. Now please stop with this stupid argument.
 
Onix said:
0_o Very Interesting.




BTW - Is AA really needed that much for 1080p? If it isn't that noticeable of a difference, I say just skip it. That way, people running with 720p TVs get 'free' super sampling.


I wish I could say. I do have a 1080p lcd, and my bro has 720p set, but they are not the same size, so I don't know what I could conclude from placing them side by side come november 17. Probably nothing. I suppose we can only assume to trust the better judgement of the development house.
 
Onix said:
Some games DO render interlaced frames (ie field rendering).
Do they cause that contradicts what Microsoft said here....

1080p is a higher bandwidth connection from the frame buffer to the TV than 1080i. However the frame buffer itself is identical. 1080p will look better than 1080i—interlaced flicker is not a good thing—but it makes precisely zero difference to the game developer. Just as most Xbox 1 games let users choose 480i or 480p, because it was no extra work, 1080p versus 1080i is no extra work. It’s just different settings on the display chip.

Inevitably somebody will ask about field rendering. Since interlaced formats display the even lines on one refresh pass and then the odd lines on the next refresh pass, can’t games just render half of the lines each time? Probably not, and even if you could you wouldn’t want to. You probably can’t do field rendering because it requires that you maintain a rock solid 60 fps. If you ever miss a frame it will look horrible, as the odd lines are displayed in place of the even, or vice-versa. This is a significant challenge when rendering extremely complex worlds with over 1 million pixels per field (2 million pixels per frame) and is probably not worth it. And, even if you can, you shouldn’t. The biggest problem with interlaced is flicker, and field rendering makes it worse, because it disables the ‘flicker fixer’ hardware that intelligently blends adjacent lines. Field rendering has been done in the past, but it was always a compromise solution.

http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/10/21/Clarifying-Thoughts-on-High-Definition-Game-Rendering.aspx

If field rendering requires a rock solid 60fps framerate then a game like Splinter Cell certainly can't be a native 1080i game with field rendering when we know it is 30fps.
 
You shouldn't be posting anything Ozymandias says when it comes to the PS3. The guy has no clue whatsoever what he's talking about when it comes to that system and he's proven it time and time again. Basically everything he posts when it comes to 1080p is pr MS spin and he doesn't care if its true or not.
 
Onix said:
I understand that.

I'm saying certain instances it may make sense to do it.

Certain instances it may make sense to go 1080p30.

Many instances it will make sense to do 720p

etc.



I'm sure the texture artists on the other hand prefer 1080p ;)

until you have to resize your textures down to free up extra memory ;)
 
Do you notice any difference in motion artifacts from running at 1080i before the dashboard update ... and running at 1080p after the update?
hell yeah, 1080i especially on 60fps games looked worse because of the deinterlacer problems, the whole bob/weave issues i spoke about previously, which is why i used to use 720p before the update. Even 720p games now look a little better/cleaner/not as soft, obviously doing the scaling internally is yielding better results than my panel doing it, which is kinda to be expected.
 
---- said:
Do they cause that contradicts what Microsoft said here....



http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/10/21/Clarifying-Thoughts-on-High-Definition-Game-Rendering.aspx

If field rendering requires a rock solid 60fps framerate then a game like Splinter Cell certainly can't be a native 1080i game with field rendering when we know it is 30fps.

I hadn't heard it was 30fps ... I'm just going by what a number of sites and magazines stated.




As far as field rendering goes ... SEVERAL PS2 games used it.

In many cases ... it equaled jaggies-galore.
 
SolidSnakex said:
You shouldn't be posting anything Ozymandias says when it comes to the PS3. The guy has no clue whatsoever what he's talking about when it comes to that system and he's proven it time and time again. Basically everything he posts when it comes to 1080p is pr MS spin and he doesn't care if its true or not.
He wasn't talking about the PS3.
 
Moonwalker said:
Yeah onix 1080p with no AA is still jaggy, especially when you increase polygon detail.

Yup.

Moonwalker said:
This is why i think if a developer can't enable at least 2xAA on 1080p then they would be far better off using that bandwidth to enable 4xAA at 720p. Overall it will look cleaner and everyone with a hdtv could enjoy the extra image quality.

I don't really hear anyone guaranteeing 16x fsaa at 1080p at this point, but maybe, in the future...? whom knows. Certianly not I.
 
Moonwalker said:
hell yeah, 1080i especially on 60fps games looked worse because of the deinterlacer problems, the whole bob/weave issues i spoke about previously, which is why i used to use 720p before the update. Even 720p games now look a little better/cleaner/not as soft, obviously doing the scaling internally is yielding better results than my panel doing it, which is kinda to be expected.

That is what I would expect (1080i 60fps looking like poo).


Specifically for DOA4, this does make it sound like the game is native 1080p ... but I'm really confused why we haven't heard MS or Tecmo comment on this.

Making the dashboard update was a big PR move for MS ... and they have consistently stated that there are current no 1080p native games.

me = confused.
 
i think 1080p is great and all but i dont think it will be used much in the long run. and if people dont think it will have an effect on performance, run a game on your pc at 1280x720 and do a test, then run the same game with the same settings at 1920x1080 ;)
 
The proof is in the pudding guys, just check it out yourselves. I don't need a press release to tell me what my eyes see.

I love this update, a very nice upgrade.
 
rod said:
i think 1080p is great and all but i dont think it will be used much in the long run. and if people dont think it will have an effect on performance, run a game on your pc at 1280x720 and do a test, then run the same game with the same settings at 1920x1080 ;)


I don't know about this. I run fifa 07 with max res and max aa, and I still see jaggies. why? pc performance is made for scalable hardware, and cannot guarantee results.

My real point is, as gamers, we should ask for more. not less. Always look for the game that is higher res, greater aa, that is presented by game companies. They will grow an understanding of the platform because of the uniform development profile. There is virtually no point in say 'I want this game because it has less visual fidelity, and therefor is probably greater in other ways' I mean, buy according to fun, but please don't advice publishers you want less from them.
 
Gamepro reported that Splinter Cell Double Agent was a 1080p game which 1UP later claimed was native 1080i. On the 1UP podcast Luke Smith said the Gamepro editor who reported that story approached him in person to say that Ubisoft assured him that it was a native 1080p game and that it was not an error on Gamepro's part. It's weird, for all I know the game is probably 540p native. When I hear the technical explanation of what it takes to make a 1080i game it doesn't sound like Splinter Cell: Double Agent is 1080i.
 
If MS actually had any games running in 1080p on their system don't you think they'd be making a much bigger deal out of it just to take away from one of Sony's bulletpoints?
 
Onix said:
That is what I would expect (1080i 60fps looking like poo).


Specifically for DOA4, this does make it sound like the game is native 1080p ... but I'm really confused why we haven't heard MS or Tecmo comment on this.

Making the dashboard update was a big PR move for MS ... and they have consistently stated that there are current no 1080p native games.

me = confused.

just like sony is using 1080p as a PR move as well. for the reasons I've stated earlier in this thread, most game devs are not ready to make their games natively 1080p because it just doesn't make sense.

i'd hate for them to sacrifice gameplay and/or visual quality just to make frame rate at 1080p. it would be especially bad if sony or ms or another publisher were forcing them down this path against their recommendations. i didn't mention that 1080p requires more memory too since textures need to be higher resolution to not look pixelated at that resolution. yet another reason...

game playing at 1080p on a 1080p-capable TV does not equal a "1080p game". they can and will be upscaled and some people may be able to tell the difference, but it's not like you'll ever see the game natively at 1080p next to the same game natively at 720p so you can compare.
 
---- said:
Gamepro reported that Splinter Cell Double Agent was a 1080p game which 1UP later claimed was native 1080i. On the 1UP podcast Luke Smith said the Gamepro editor who reported that story approached him in person to say that Ubisoft assured him that it was a native 1080p game and that it was not an error on Gamepro's part. It's weird, for all I know the game is probably 540p native. When I hear the technical explanation of what it takes to make a 1080i game it doesn't sound like Splinter Cell: Double Agent is 1080i.

well like i said.. prove ubisoft wrong... yeah that's right. you can't. we'll never know.

but you know what? why does it matter? does it look good? great? then who cares?
 
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