Support NeoGAF

[AlphaTwo00]

wth, i thought they were expanding an additional branch in oakville?

Hamilton. The plan was to setup shop to take advantage of McMaster grads. Not sure what that means if this is true.

Dear Ontario Government...

Give me back my freaking money!

God damnit, did you not see what I wrote up there? You know governments give out funding for startup business, that MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE OF FAILING TOO!

 

[Vamphuntr]

AAAARRGGHHHHH.

QUEBEC.

FEDERAL != PROVINCIAL.

Ubisoft, EA, THQ, Eidos, WB, and countless others have all setup shop in Quebec, and receive tax breaks (I'm not sure if there's direct funding). If you want to say AC is funded by taxpayer money, at least get your location straight!

When the government give out funding (or other branches, such as the OMDC as mentioned before), it's contingent on delivery of what was promised. It's not as simple as "get funding, keep hiring". Funding can be as limited as per project basis.

For AC I don't know but pretty sure Eidos games are made with my Quebec taxes.

Quebec does give direct funding to studios and not only tax breaks. Here's an article from La Presse about the expansion of Eidos in Montreal.

En plus des crédits d'impôt de 37,5% des coûts de main-d'oeuvre offerts à tous les studios de jeu vidéo, le gouvernement du Québec octroiera une subvention directe de 2 millions de dollars à Eidos Montréal, propriété de Square Enix. Il s'agit de la troisième subvention directe dans l'industrie québécoise du jeu vidéo. L'an dernier, Warner Brothers a reçu 7,5 millions de dollars pour créer un studio qui atteindra 300 employés en 2015, tandis que THQ a reçu 3,1 millions pour un studio de 400 employés en 2015.

Basically, on top of the 37,5% of tax credits on salaries, Quebec gave a direct 2 million dollars grant to Eidos Montreal. Last Year WB got 7,5 Millions from Quebec and THQ got 3,1 Mllions for a studio that will be ready in 2015.

 

[SpaceDrake]

And you think those departments are ran properly?

So clearly we should defund them and let Randian supermen set up private versions then

Also this is a stupid derail

Anyway, after as bad a bomb as Destiny is, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the end. Can't imagine laying off his own wife went well for Dyack

 

[Boney]

Has there ever been a second-party dev from Nintendo that has flourished once they parted ways?

rare has mantained consistent quality, just not the same amount of output.

 

[Forsaken82]

Not really surprising with such a poor history



Only Eternal Darkness is decent in this list and Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. GEX wasn't too bad.

To each their own... I have enjoyed everything they have released since Blood Omen. (with the exception of Xmen as I haven't played it...)

 

[jim-jam bongs]

And you think those departments are ran properly?

You heard it here first folks, Too Human wasn't just a bad game, it's destroying the Canadian public-service.

 

[big_z]

8 million in funding grants? That's ridiculous.

it's because game developement is growing in canada and the government wants to create jobs. i'd be okay with the funding provided SK could make good games but they havent put out anything decent since eternal darkness and they havent had a good selling game in forever.

i've wondered why sk games have been so low quality lately. they were a capable studio before so what changed. maybe there's bad staff in there that dont know how to manage a product correctly and if thats the case hopefully they get let go so the studio can recover.

 

[x3r0123]

Hamilton. The plan was to setup shop to take advantage of McMaster grads. Not sure what that means if this is true.

i read somewhere that they were setting up an studio for smaller scale games.. i guess there is nothing they can do if their software bomb so hard

Anyways, there are alot of studios opening and closing in ontario. So we'll definitely see those people go elsewhere

 

[Luigi87]

Hamilton. The plan was to setup shop to take advantage of McMaster grads. Not sure what that means if this is true.God damnit, did you not see what I wrote up there? You know governments give out funding for startup business, that MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE OF FAILING TOO!

Taking things a tad personally?
Anywho, my own comment was directed to mainly be satirical because I knew they were planning to open shop in Hamilton, much like the other person was wondering (I'm a native Hamiltonian).

 

[elrechazado]

As one of the few members of the too human defense forces, I will shed a tear

 

[enzo_gt]

Canadian voters found out just where their tax money was going.

Seriously 3 milli of it..

Fuck this.

 

[Littleberu]

Has there ever been a second-party dev from Nintendo that has flourished once they parted ways?

You could ask that about any developers that left a console manufacturer exclusivity deal.

 

[Akainu]

Oh damn!

 

[Takao]

You could ask that about any developers that left a console manufacturer exclusivity deal.

Level-5 is really the only exception. They've become one of Japan's largest studios after leaving Sony.

 

[bigboss370]

aw man they had something with Too Human, i really hoped they would finish the trilogy.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

it's because game developement is growing in canada and the government wants to create jobs. i'd be okay with the funding provided SK could make good games but they havent put out anything decent since eternal darkness and they havent had a good selling game in forever.

And that's not how government funding works: It's mostly based on product delivery and jobs created, basically, what is the net effect on the economy as a whole. If the layoffs are true, then I would think both Federal and Provincial would be banging on their doors demanding answers (if not already nulled by whatever agreement they had).

Since everyone is all pissy about funding and such (and I'd assume most are within Canada here), I'm going to be the shit disturber and make you think a bit:

This game was funding by Canadian Tax Dollars.
http://www.thetelegram.com/Arts---Life/Technologies/2009-04-25/article-1436362/Puffin-play/1

Other Ocean invested its own money into the project, and received funding from Telefilm Canada through its Canadian New Media Fund. Once the game was developed, Other Ocean began the process about a year and a half ago of shopping it around to video game publishers.

Specifically, if you read the fine line, the funding was given not with a publishing deal, rather helping them complete development. It would have been entirely possible that games under funding don't ever find publisher. So what if it didn't? Would you all be crying fowl that money was spent and no product (or mediocre product) was shipped?

 

[badcrumble]

You could ask that about any developers that left a console manufacturer exclusivity deal.

I think Bungie and Insomniac will be fine.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I'm sad for those who lost their jobs, but.. was this really all that unexpected, after the Too Human fiasco, and the recently released X-Men game that, if I'm not mistaken, has sold rather poorly?

 

[megamerican]

I got the impression they weren't even trying with X-Men. It was just a cynical licensed cash-in. Apparently they had time, and some freedom with the license too.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Never ever...ever think that parting with Nintendo makes good business sense...it doesn't...you are delusional and should seek immediate help if such a thought crosses your mind.

Nintendo guarantees you will never be able to release a shit game...average at worst. I've read stories where Nintendo have come in and seen projects that look like shit and sure failures...canned them right there and then and made the developers concentrate on something else which is more suitable...

Too Human needed Nintendo to back it...

 

[Asskicker064]

And you think those departments are ran properly?

I'm getting a free market hard on right now.

 

[Takao]

And that's not how government funding works: It's mostly based on product delivery and jobs created, basically, what is the net effect on the economy as a whole. If the layoffs are true, then I would think both Federal and Provincial would be banging on their doors demanding answers (if not already nulled by whatever agreement they had).

Since everyone is all pissy about funding and such (and I'd assume most are within Canada here), I'm going to be the shit disturber and make you think a bit:

This game was funding by Canadian Tax Dollars.
http://www.thetelegram.com/Arts---Life/Technologies/2009-04-25/article-1436362/Puffin-play/1

Specifically, if you read the fine line, the funding was given not with a publishing deal, rather helping them complete development. It would have been entirely possible that games under funding don't ever find publisher. So what if it didn't? Would you all be crying fowl that money was spent and no product (or mediocre product) was shipped?

CBC actually ran a Home & Country episode on this game. It was pretty depressing given it came off of the episode where an animation studio was looking at a new series becoming a huge hit. Said show would be funded by YTV, but not air on the network for nearly 2 years. Well after the animation studio had to close due to funding.

Edit: Holy crap, this studio actually made the DS version of X-Men Destiny...

 

[ElRenoRaven]

You know. It's never fun to see people laid off. I really feel for those employees. However I can't say this surprises me and really I have to ask what took so long. They went down the crapper a long time ago now.

 

[[Nintex]]

Never ever...ever think that parting with Nintendo makes good business sense...it doesn't...you are delusional and should seek immediate help if such a thought crosses your mind.

Nintendo guarantees you will never be able to release a shit game...average at worst. I've read stories where Nintendo have come in and seen projects that look like shit and sure failures...canned them right there and then and made the developers concentrate on something else which is more suitable...

Too Human needed Nintendo to back it...

But around 2008 or so it kinda went the other way around and Nintendo broke ties with Kuju, n-space and their other 'second parties'. Almost sending them straight to the unemployed line.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Was it ever clear exactly who cut the ties, was it Silicon Knights wanting to go it alone, or Nintendo not seeing a place for them in the Wii masterplan?

 

[Zen]

I wonder if Dyack will blame the ongoing lawsuit with Epic that took forever and cost a lot of money, you know, the one he started.

Well..Ninja Theory is a studio that release big budget shitty games that bombs but still get biggest publishers in the industry..SK at least made one good game long long time ago.

Ninja Theory at least had some strengths to hang their hat on though.Ninja Theory games have had a competent focus on storytelling and generally have had graphics and asthetics. SK has just been outright bad for a very long time, from every angle.

Ninja Theory has a very strong head of the company that is able to sell the company to publishers.

Silicon Knights has Denis Dyack.

Should have just gone from 97 to 96.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0qm0KUPeD8

That could have given the opportunity to fix many of Silicon Knights problems, if it had happened years ago.

It's sucks so many people are out of work, hopefully Ubi will grab a healthy chunk of them.

SK are awful though, this was looming for years.

This is basically how I feel. We have numerous examples of well run studios in Canada that have made good use of Canadian talent. I'm not sure how Silicon Knights suffered so badly for so long and just been all around sub par. I remember marveling at how bad their modelling work is during the Gamecube era.

 

[dankir]

Did Too Human sell well enough to warrant a sequel? I know Dyack wanted to make it a trilogy but I haven't heard shit about it since the original title.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

But around 2008 or so it kinda went the other way around and Nintendo broke ties with Kuju, n-space and their other 'second parties'. Almost sending them straight to the unemployed line.

Well, they didn't break off with Kuju completely. They did work on Art Academy after all! (as Headstrong Games)

But yeah, they did ditch N-Space (who else did they ditch? Can't recall anyone else other than Fuse, who shut down in 2010 after releasing Pinball Pulse and reformed as Silverball Studios)

Are you counting Factor 5? Because that was around 2005/2006 when they left...

 

[larvi]

I did my part to help keep them in business:

I also have Dark Legions around somewhere. Unfortunately they stopped making PC games sometime back.

 

[legend166]

The Nintendo curse continues.

Rare
Left Field
Silicon Knights
Armature (all those Retro dudes)
Factor 5

 

[[Nintex]]

Was it ever clear exactly who cut the ties, was it Silicon Knights wanting to go it alone, or Nintendo not seeing a place for them in the Wii masterplan?

Just like with Factor 5 it was Silicon Knights who was looking for greener pastures. Remember that Nintendo did everything Wii in house and hadn't shown the Wii Remote to anyone untill that Tokyo Game Show reveal late 2005.

For Factor 5 it was basically necessary to go someplace else, since they had expanded after Rebel Strike and Nintendo kept delaying the single game(Pilotwings) they had in production. Factor 5 didn't know what the Revolution plans were and the clock for the start of next-gen was ticking. I wouldn't have bet on Nintendo hitting gold with their next console at point either.

Are you counting Factor 5? Because that was around 2005/2006 when they left...

Nah because Factor 5 cut with Nintendo, Nintendo actually would've liked them around.

 

[Takao]

Did Too Human sell well enough to warrant a sequel? I know Dyack wanted to make it a trilogy but I haven't heard shit about it since the original title.

Microsoft loves sequels, so I think that should tell you how well it sold.

 

[Painraze]

So what are the 25 left going to do?

 

[infinityBCRT]

I'm so glad that SK didn't hire me to work on X-Men Destiny.

 

[Shiggy]

So what are the 25 left going to do?

That's legal staff for the ongoing Epic lawsuit.

 

[volturnus]

Epic should make it.

Obsidian would make it better..

 

[Deadbeat]

Ninja Theory at least had some strengths to hang their hat on though.Ninja Theory games have had a competent focus on storytelling and generally have had graphics and asthetics.

Silicon Knights actually made good games in their time. Ninja Theory has not.

 

[erpg]

Way to fucking go, Ontario. Was a risky investment, and you got bit in the ass by it.

Keep those Ontario media creation industry ads coming, they were really effective!

 

[Busty]

A shame that people had to loose their jobs but then it's not really that surprising given SK's history.

I can just see Dyack spinning this as a good thing.

Sitting all by himself in a basement making games for iOS while his missus deals with the HR issues ie making him sandwiches.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Way to fucking go, Ontario. Was a risky investment, and you got bit in the ass by it.

Keep those Ontario media creation industry ads coming, they were really effective!

For every SK, there are a dozen more interesting "indie" devs dipping into the same money pool. U Mad?

 

[erpg]

For every SK, there are a dozen more interesting "indie" devs dipping into the same money pool. U Mad?

Let me know when an indie developer even has 70 jobs to lose.

 

[Raonak]

never forget how they fucked up grey fox's death.

 

[FStop7]

Such a shock after the critical and financial success stories known as Too Human and X-Men Destiny.

 

[Takao]

For every SK, there are a dozen more interesting "indie" devs dipping into the same money pool. U Mad?

Ontario government should give me money to start a localization company.

I won't use this money to only localize games I'm interested that have little shot at success.

I promise.

 

[PuppetMaster]

I'm frankly quite surprised they lasted this long.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Twin Snakes was pretty good. I'd rather have that on the MGS HD remaster instead of that piece of shit MGS2.

As for SK, surprised they lasted this long. Really only 2 games in what? The last 7 or 8 years? They must have made out like bandits from Microsoft in whatever deal they got for Too Human.

 

[Baron_Calamity]

Sad story. Probably one we will see repeated in the months to come.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Let me know when an indie developer even has 70 jobs to lose.

Which is why I put "indie" in quotes. I love the guys at Capy, but sometimes it irks me to see them as defined as "indie". People still have this mental image of indie as a bunch of guys working in tightknit groups, while we've got "indies" here spanning 30+ staff.

Bedlam Games in Toronto recently is a pretty good example, IIRC, somewhere north of 100+, with 90% canned as of recently. There's your "indie" shutting down 70 jobs.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

For every SK, there are a dozen more interesting "indie" devs dipping into the same money pool. U Mad?

They ain't ran by Dennis Dyack, either.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

They ain't ran by Dennis Dyack, either.

Keep those Ontario media creation industry ads coming, they were really effective!

I was responding to this, as suggesting that "promoting" media industry is a waste of time...