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[Composer]

Posting the reddit thread since it contains the link to the body cam and a lot of good comments, but again, another shameful and overzealous display by the cops. The body cam footage is really telling how a routine ticket turns into multiple cops putting a black dude on the ground and then tasing him. Remember, white privilege is just majority privilege .




Sterling did release a statement here at: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd6kQ2hV4AA8ZKA.jpg
The police department give their lame apology here:

 

[gioGAF]

Wow, wtf! Just give the man his ticket and move on.

 

[manfestival]

Why in the world did they have to bring 6 officers in on absolutely nothing? Yeah, give the man his citation and move on.

 

[TrainedRage]

This officer was definitely on a power trip.

 

[highrider]

Shameful. Sadly law enforcement attracts this exact type of person.

 

[RokkanStoned]

Very aggressive and clearly a complete overreaction. Some things were confusing though, what was the deal with the guy not backing up when ordered (or did he do so, but perspective made it seem like he didn't? or am I blind?) and why did he refuse to take his hand out of his pockets (I think I heard "No, I got stuff in my hand", but I might've misheard). Did the officer suspect an attempted break in, because it was hard to get the context with the low audio and the officer seemed to look towards the doors on the building a lot. The amount of police officers was just ridiculous and I'm having a hard time thinking what justified that many officers in dealing with a guy and his car.

 

[Composer]

Very aggressive and clearly a complete overreaction. Some things were confusing though, what was the deal with the guy not backing up when ordered (or did he do so, but perspective made it seem like he didn't? or am I blind?) and why did he refuse to take his hand out of his pockets (I think I heard "No, I got stuff in my hand", but I might've misheard). Did the officer suspect an attempted break in, because it was hard to get the context with the low audio and the officer seemed to look towards the doors on the building a lot. The amount of police officers was just ridiculous and I'm having a hard time thinking what justified that many officers in dealing with a guy and his car.

Someone does a breakdown per interaction in the reddit thread but it seemed like because he was cold, he was trying to put his hands back in his pockets for warmth

 

[LegendOfKage]

When a police officer says "Take your hands out of your pockets now!" your response shouldn't be "I got stuff in my hands." Cops have a damn good reason to worry about people with their hands in their pockets. So yeah, at that point you're going down and you're getting tased.



That said, this incident shouldn't have reached this point in the first place. The idea that this cop needed to call in backup to give a guy a ticket for parking directly outside of an entrance seems pretty dumb, as was the cops attitude from the start. Just give him the ticket already.

Compare this to the conduct of the falsely accused officer from another recent thread, and the difference is night and day.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

They didn’t kill him! Progress?

 

[camelCase]

Lol how does this even happen from a parking violation

 

[mr2xxx]

If he’s not fired it just shows the state of this country and it’s inability to address its issues. It’s a fucking moving violation with the guy showing no type of aggression.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Hell in that situation it's a petty ticket, and nevertheless the rest.

 

[bucyou]

what a shit cop

 

[KINGMOKU]

This is why I firmly believe there should be no police unions and they should be able to be fired instantly from the force.

Public servant.

 

[mckmas8808]

Very aggressive and clearly a complete overreaction. Some things were confusing though, what was the deal with the guy not backing up when ordered (or did he do so, but perspective made it seem like he didn't? or am I blind?) and why did he refuse to take his hand out of his pockets (I think I heard "No, I got stuff in my hand", but I might've misheard). Did the officer suspect an attempted break in, because it was hard to get the context with the low audio and the officer seemed to look towards the doors on the building a lot. The amount of police officers was just ridiculous and I'm having a hard time thinking what justified that many officers in dealing with a guy and his car.

Why are ANY of these questions being asked after what you saw? Do you love the police that much? The answer to your questions is "because he's a HUMAN BEING!"

When a police officer says "Take your hands out of your pockets now!" your response shouldn't be "I got stuff in my hands." Cops have a damn good reason to worry about people with their hands in their pockets. So yeah, at that point you're going down and you're getting tased.



That said, this incident shouldn't have reached this point in the first place. The idea that this cop needed to call in backup to give a guy a ticket for parking directly outside of an entrance seems pretty dumb, as was the cops attitude from the start. Just give him the ticket already.

Compare this to the conduct of the falsely accused officer from another recent thread, and the difference is night and day.

You are part of the problem. You are acting as if every single interaction with the cops are citizens that are 2 seconds away from murdering a cop. You're insane for thinking like this.

This is why I firmly believe there should be no police unions and they should be able to be fired instantly from the force.

Public servant.

Police unions aren't the problem at all! Not even 1%. It's people like LegendofKage that continue giving the cops approve to take any measure possible to get home safe. Even if it means murdering an innocent man with a cell phone in his hands and not a gun.

 

[RokkanStoned]

Why are ANY of these questions being asked after what you saw? Do you love the police that much? The answer to your questions is "because he's a HUMAN BEING!"

So are the police. Those questions are valid in regards to the safety of the police officer, who have to deal with high adrenaline and high stress situations all the time.
"Do you love the police that much"? Not really, but I don't expect police to take chances assuming someone's just a "HUMAN BEING".

I don't care about sides, I have no investment in US politics, outside of professional and intellectual curiosity. I do care about understanding why people acted the way they did. Someone suggested it was because he was cold, which sounds weird, but would point to the fact that he seemed somewhat calm before the sudden outburst.
You see, you can criticize someone for being out of line and still criticize the other person for also not doing as they should. Things aren't binary. There's no arguing that they overreacted, with that many officers at the place, but not following the order of the officer, potentially making them afraid you might be hiding a weapon, is not a good idea. We should learn from the experience what can be done to better it. Like less aggression and more dialogue, keeping instructions calm and clear to slowly take your hands out of your pocket, etc. There's a lot of discussions that can be had about policing in America or the prison system, but it's not something that'll be done if we just emotionally delve into our corners.
America's focus on punishment, either in media or in the justice system, is disheartening for me, coming from Norway, where we luckily most of the time try to keep calm and argue on how to best compromise. It might be just a difference in values, which is fine, I'm not a full moral absolutist, but it's disheartening that everything is about "us vs them" in fire and fury.

 

[off duty ninja]

What a fucking shit show. As a parent of a severely disabled child that relies on handicapped spots, fuck this dude for just parking all across them like he is special or something.

Now that I got that out of my system, why the fuck does a parking violation turn into something like this to begin with. Give the dude the biggest ticket you are allowed and move the fuck on.

This is a perfect example where "both sides" are completely shitty.

 

[mckmas8808]

So are the police. Those questions are valid in regards to the safety of the police officer, who have to deal with high adrenaline and high stress situations all the time.
"Do you love the police that much"? Not really, but I don't expect police to take chances assuming someone's just a "HUMAN BEING".

I don't care about sides, I have no investment in US politics, outside of professional and intellectual curiosity. I do care about understanding why people acted the way they did. Someone suggested it was because he was cold, which sounds weird, but would point to the fact that he seemed somewhat calm before the sudden outburst.
You see, you can criticize someone for being out of line and still criticize the other person for also not doing as they should. Things aren't binary. There's no arguing that they overreacted, with that many officers at the place, but not following the order of the officer, potentially making them afraid you might be hiding a weapon, is not a good idea. We should learn from the experience what can be done to better it. Like less aggression and more dialogue, keeping instructions calm and clear to slowly take your hands out of your pocket, etc. There's a lot of discussions that can be had about policing in America or the prison system, but it's not something that'll be done if we just emotionally delve into our corners.
America's focus on punishment, either in media or in the justice system, is disheartening for me, coming from Norway, where we luckily most of the time try to keep calm and argue on how to best compromise. It might be just a difference in values, which is fine, I'm not a full moral absolutist, but it's disheartening that everything is about "us vs them" in fire and fury.

To me the bolded is the problem that we have in America. The benefit of the doubt to stay alive is always with the cop and not the citizen. We all want the cop to see their kids at home, but don't care enough for the citizen to see their kids later that night.

And the us vs. them them will always exist if one side tends to get the benefit of the doubt all the time. That's where the us vs. them thing starts. But all the other stuff you are saying makes sense though.

 

[Future]

Saw some analysis on this from some police trainer which was good. Basically, since the cop comes up so immediately aggressive and quickly surrounds the guy with multiple cops for seemingly no reason, he’s basically making the situation more tense that will cause sterling to be more defensive. Questions like “why are is his hands in his pockets” are easy to ask when not under duress, but when intimidated like that they may just be natural behaviors that are used as an excuse for additional force.

Sure sterling is t immediately cooperative in every way. But he does not resist and he did not escalate the situation. Immediately asking for a drivers license instantly when seeing the guy is a joke

 

[Moneal]

You are part of the problem. You are acting as if every single interaction with the cops are citizens that are 2 seconds away from murdering a cop. You're insane for thinking like this.

The same can be said for people that push the narrative that every single interaction between cops and black people end like this one.

 

[mckmas8808]

Saw some analysis on this from some police trainer which was good. Basically, since the cop comes up so immediately aggressive and quickly surrounds the guy with multiple cops for seemingly no reason, he’s basically making the situation more tense that will cause sterling to be more defensive. Questions like “why are is his hands in his pockets” are easy to ask when not under duress, but when intimidated like that they may just be natural behaviors that are used as an excuse for additional force.

Sure sterling is t immediately cooperative in every way. But he does not resist and he did not escalate the situation. Immediately asking for a drivers license instantly when seeing the guy is a joke

This is such a great post. Thanks for this. The assumption with citizen/police interactions is that only the cop is under duress. Citizens aren't prepared to be in situations like this. We aren't trained on what to do if 5 cops surround you and take you by surprise. And then when you ask questions and they don't answer them, it's natural for many people to get scared and feel like everything is moving at 500 mph. And when things are moving that fast and you are scared sometimes you freeze up and get confused. You miss some commands that are barked at you because you are trying to focus on so many things at once.

The same can be said for people that push the narrative that every single interaction between cops and black people end like this one.

Anybody that says that shouldn't be taken seriously. They should be laughed at and then ignored.

 

[RokkanStoned]

To me the bolded is the problem that we have in America. The benefit of the doubt to stay alive is always with the cop and not the citizen. We all want the cop to see their kids at home, but don't care enough for the citizen to see their kids later that night.
And the us vs. them them will always exist if one side tends to get the benefit of the doubt all the time. That's where the us vs. them thing starts. But all the other stuff you are saying makes sense though.

That's where I disagree, the officer should have a duty to make sure he stays alive, because upholds the law. Just like you're supposed to make sure things are secure, before you help someone, or helping yourself first, before you help others in the case of an accident. Risking your life isn't something you should do, although it's a risk that comes with the job. Being an officer is a job, unless you want them to be heroes as well and have a moral superiority over you by you disregarding their lives.
A bigger point is that most of this can be completely avoided to make an issue of, by focusing on practical things, like education and internal discipline in the police. Focusing on procedure and making sure that measures are taken for the officers to approach the situations better, while also keeping their safety. Making sure internal systems are in place to make sure that officers report in concerns, also having counseling assistance available to officers in times of concern and fostering an environment where feedback is wanted. Body cams are great as well, though cameras can be deceiving as well, for either side, but overall it's probably the better option. There might be a big problem with certain police districts as well, which might need to put pressure on the police chiefs.

"us vs them will always exist because of them", will never solve a thing, because the other side will equally say the same. We need solutions that people can agree on, while avoiding politicizing it as a partisan issue.
We're never getting in anywhere when anecdotes are given too much attention with both sides coming in with their preset perceptions "the police killed him because he was black" or "the police had to protect themselves". We should always strive to understand what happened, consider evidence, witnesses, motive, etc. It's necessary to determine if you're investigating the singular occurrence or if you're considering statistical divergences, neither says anything about the reality of the other.

 

[rokkerkory]

Officer should be sent back to training. He better not be on paid administrative leave BS

 

[mckmas8808]

That's where I disagree, the officer should have a duty to make sure he stays alive, because upholds the law. Just like you're supposed to make sure things are secure, before you help someone, or helping yourself first, before you help others in the case of an accident. Risking your life isn't something you should do, although it's a risk that comes with the job. Being an officer is a job, unless you want them to be heroes as well and have a moral superiority over you by you disregarding their lives.
A bigger point is that most of this can be completely avoided to make an issue of, by focusing on practical things, like education and internal discipline in the police. Focusing on procedure and making sure that measures are taken for the officers to approach the situations better, while also keeping their safety. Making sure internal systems are in place to make sure that officers report in concerns, also having counseling assistance available to officers in times of concern and fostering an environment where feedback is wanted. Body cams are great as well, though cameras can be deceiving as well, for either side, but overall it's probably the better option. There might be a big problem with certain police districts as well, which might need to put pressure on the police chiefs.

"us vs them will always exist because of them", will never solve a thing, because the other side will equally say the same. We need solutions that people can agree on, while avoiding politicizing it as a partisan issue.
We're never getting in anywhere when anecdotes are given too much attention with both sides coming in with their preset perceptions "the police killed him because he was black" or "the police had to protect themselves". We should always strive to understand what happened, consider evidence, witnesses, motive, etc. It's necessary to determine if you're investigating the singular occurrence or if you're considering statistical divergences, neither says anything about the reality of the other.

I agree with the bolded that you said. The sad part is there's no way to make the police forces around America agree with you and me. Though you'd have to answer for why in every single poll taken black people tend to fell less trusting of police, than their white counterparts in the neighborhood. There is an actual reason for that. And it's not all in their heads. They aren't making things up.

 

[Gexxy1]

If it weren't such an awful job, it might attract better employees.

 

[RokkanStoned]

I agree with the bolded that you said. The sad part is there's no way to make the police forces around America agree with you and me. Though you'd have to answer for why in every single poll taken black people tend to fell less trusting of police, than their white counterparts in the neighborhood. There is an actual reason for that. And it's not all in their heads. They aren't making things up.

Of course, like any profession, police has interest in ensuring their own rights. However, if they take the initiative for the change there are ways to ensure their rights as collective, without protecting individuals going out of line.
In regards to poll, that's things that are shaped by public narratives, socioeconomic factors and historical factors and cultural perceptions that ensure from this mixed together.

Edit: To add, from what I've heard the police training is short in the US and it's more focused on offensive power and not social interaction and negotiation. In Norway it's a three year professional degree.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Edit: To add, from what I've heard the police training is short in the US and it's more focused on offensive power and not social interaction and negotiation. In Norway it's a three year professional degree.

Yes. Better police training and standards, as well a more SOP's nationwide are some of the leading police reform ideas here in the U.S.

 

[mckmas8808]

Of course, like any profession, police has interest in ensuring their own rights. However, if they take the initiative for the change there are ways to ensure their rights as collective, without protecting individuals going out of line.
In regards to poll, that's things that are shaped by public narratives, socioeconomic factors and historical factors and cultural perceptions that ensure from this mixed together.

Edit: To add, from what I've heard the police training is short in the US and it's more focused on offensive power and not social interaction and negotiation. In Norway it's a three year professional degree.

This is EXACTLY how I understand it too. Weird how so many other countries get it right, whereas America isn't even trying to be better.

 

[LegendOfKage]

You are part of the problem. You are acting as if every single interaction with the cops are citizens that are 2 seconds away from murdering a cop. You're insane for thinking like this.

Police unions aren't the problem at all! Not even 1%. It's people like LegendofKage that continue giving the cops approve to take any measure possible to get home safe.

Let's test that theory that it's really people like me who are the problem.



If it were up to me, the officer in this video would have been fired from the moment he shot his gun. He would never be able to work for the police again, and he would not be entitled to any compensation for his termination. He was never in danger. He not only killed a man who was only guilty of trying to leave the scene, but his use of a firearm could have easily led to another person dying as an innocent bystander.

What happened to the officer in question?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Samuel_DuBose#Raymond_Tensing

On 23rd March 2018 Ray Tensing was awarded nearly $350,000 in compensation for unfair dismissal from his former employer.

Don't tell me the problem is people like me. At the same time, if the victim would have cooperated with the officer and not tried to drive away, he would be alive today. Until he tried to drive away, the officer was nothing but calm and professional.

Aside from the fact that he ended up dead, which should have never happened, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the actions of the victim either. While the cop could have killed a someone with a stray bullet, the victim could have killed someone as a result of the high speed car chase he was about to start. The police don't just wave goodbye if you decide to leave the scene. That was reckless.

But the cop just HAD to stop this guy (even if it meant killing him), and this guy just HAD to not be arrested. And now someone is dead because of two people and their selfish stupid actions.

Also, let's be clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Samuel_DuBose#Raymond_Tensing

On July 31, the Fraternal Order of Police–Ohio Labor Council, a union that represents UCPD employees, filed a grievance asking that Tensing be reinstated to his position on the police force, asserting that he was terminated "without just cause".[31][32] Resolution of the grievance is postponed pending the outcome of the criminal case.[33]

Police unions aren't the problem at all! Not even 1%. It's people like LegendofKage that continue giving the cops approve to take any measure possible to get home safe.

You might want to rethink that. Maybe look up some other police shootings and see how often a union is defending an officer who shot an unarmed civilian.

 

[mckmas8808]

Let's test that theory that's it's really people like me who are the problem.



If it were up to me, the officer in this video would have been fired from the moment he shot his gun. He would never be able to work for the police again, and he would not be entitled to any compensation for his termination. He was never in danger. He not only killed a man who was only guilty of trying to leave the scene, but his use of a firearm could have easily led to another person dying as an innocent bystander.

What happened to the officer in question?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Samuel_DuBose#Raymond_Tensing



Don't tell me the problem is people like me. At the same time, if the victim would have cooperated with the officer and not tried to drive away, he would be alive today. Until he tried to drive away, the officer was nothing but calm and professional.

Aside from the fact that he ended up dead, which should have never happened, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the actions of the victim either. While the cop could have killed a someone with a stray bullet, the victim could have killed someone as a result of the high speed car chase he was about to start. The police don't just wave goodbye if you decide to leave the scene. That was reckless.

But the cop just HAD to stop this guy (even if it meant killing him), and this guy just HAD to not be arrested. And now someone is dead because of two people and their selfish stupid actions.

Also, let's be clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Samuel_DuBose#Raymond_Tensing





You might want to rethink that. Maybe look up some other police shootings and see how often a union is defending an officer who shot an unarmed civilian.

Driving away does not mean you should be shot. And again we've seen people listen to cops and still get tazed, shot, or choked to death. So stop saying "if you listen you will live." And do you want to live in that kind of society where if you don't do 100% of what a cop says as fast as they want you to, then you can die?

I'd say the worse action is the action that land someone dead in reality. Not some hypothetical.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Driving away does not mean you should be shot.

Full agreement, which is why I said so when I mentioned the incident in question. That cop was completely in the wrong.

And again we've seen people listen to cops and still get tazed, shot, or choked to death. So stop saying "if you listen you will live."

If you listen to the officer and then you're shot anyway, then there's nothing more that you could have done. You did everything you could do, and you didn't give them any excuse. Are you really going to suggest that following the officer's instructions wouldn't have made it incredibly less likely that Samuel DeBose would have been shot in the head?

And do you want to live in that kind of society where if you don't do 100% of what a cop says as fast as they want you to, then you can die?

No, which is why I never would have defended this officer's actions, and I never would have given him any money for wrongful termination.

I'd say the worse action is the action that land someone dead in reality. Not some hypothetical.

Hypotheticals are important, though. Driving away would have almost certainly caused a high speed car chase, which could have cost someone their life. And again, the same is true for the officer. I think it's very important to acknowledge that the officer could have killed some random kid with a stray bullet by firing his gun in a residential area. If he would have missed the shot and the bullet simply ended up in the ground, would you be arguing that the officer shouldn't have been fired for what didn't end up happening? Because in that hypothetical, I'd still think he should be fired.

Now about those police unions.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

Behavior displayed by police officer is garbage. How a paid civil servant can transform a peace keeping situation into a reactive military deployment is beyond frustrating.

 

[CreamCream]

I don’t even call the police anymore here in Bmore. I’m safer without them.

 

[Baskin Robbins]

He should have just parked the right way to avoid this shit. The Cop was being unreasonable and confrontational and for the record, it's not usual for Police to call back up, even if things aren't escalating. I've been stopped before and dude calls like 3 more cops for back up, while he's searching my truck. Lol.
I'm not even an intimidating looking person. It's just something they do, I guess.
It's a pretty long video, so I'm gonna continue watching.... Really... couldn't have just given him the ticket?

Check out this short video. I think it's a pretty good.
Police instructor analyzes Sterling Brown taser video

 

[bitbydeath]

the victim could have killed someone as a result of the high speed car chase he was about to start.

It wouldn't be a high-speed chase if Police simply put a tracker on the car and follow quietly behind at a safe distance as to not being seen.
Police should work smarter. IMO

 

[Cleared_Hot]

Oh look dozens of civilians suddenly experts on policing

 

[llien]

...as if every single interaction with the cops are citizens that are 2 seconds away from murdering a cop.

It's just, while you are accepting black people as human beings, you do not seem to treat police as human beings that deserve, heck, to live.

 

[Baskin Robbins]

Oh look dozens of civilians suddenly experts on policing

We're just people on a forum who are giving an opinion, man. The cops suddenly went over the top at the end and just dropped him to the ground and Tased the poor bastard, even though there was enough cops to destroy him easily. They wasted the Taser shit... he was already subdued. They could have just hog tied him with restraints instead of going there. Why do you think the Chief apologized swiftly and took action against those who were directly involved? He in the wrong too?

I posted a video of an expert who trains police on these situations. This could have been avoided. It's just bad for everyone involved. Shouldn't have gotten to the point where there were a half a dozen cops on the scene for a fucking traffic violation.

 

[Typhares]

So the guy parks like a morron and doesn't follow instructions very well.
The officer was too confrontational from the get-go for sure, he should have backed up when Brown didn't do so to de-escalate a bit.
I think the fact that it is the middle of the night is the reason why so many cops showed up even though he only requested one backup. They heard the call and were not doing anything else.
That's a bad move though and dispatch should have prevented that.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's just, while you are accepting black people as human beings, you do not seem to treat police as human beings that deserve, heck, to live.

They all deserve to live is my point. I'm not looking for reasons to hurt or kill someone like some many other people are. Remember the cops ALWAYS have a gun and the badge/authority to use it. Rarely do the citizens have a gun. And they NEVER have the authority to use it on a cop.

 

[CreamCream]

It's just, while you are accepting black people as human beings, you do not seem to treat police as human beings that deserve, heck, to live.

A lot more people doing the latter than the former, is the issue.

 

[Future]

Oh look dozens of civilians suddenly experts on policing

Yeah why don’t we listen to the expert posted like 2 posts above you

 

[DryvBy]

Shameful. Sadly law enforcement attracts this exact type of person.

Every job has boneheads and people have power trips. Don't label people for their career choices. The same type of personality has jobs as managers and treat their employees like slaves. Some people are horrible human beings and some of them get into jobs that don't fit.

 

[CreamCream]

Every job has boneheads and people have power trips. Don't label people for their career choices. The same type of personality has jobs as managers and treat their employees like slaves. Some people are horrible human beings and some of them get into jobs that don't fit.

Police culture has a serious problem with the Blue Wall. The systemic racism and profiteering rampant in it is due to the many, many police officers that make excuses for the bad cops, and don't take fixing their problems seriously.

Yes, I will 100% admit that I lose a bit of respect for a person if they decide to become a cop in 2018. I also have a massive fear of cops, and never speak to them unless I absolutely have no choice. This won't change until they change.

 

[NickFire]

Police culture has a serious problem with the Blue Wall. The systemic racism and profiteering rampant in it is due to the many, many police officers that make excuses for the bad cops, and don't take fixing their problems seriously.

Yes, I will 100% admit that I lose a bit of respect for a person if they decide to become a cop in 2018. I also have a massive fear of cops, and never speak to them unless I absolutely have no choice. This won't change until they change.

What changes are you proposing?

 

[Jon Neu]

I don’t even call the police anymore here in Bmore. I’m safer without them.

They will be also far more safe without having to go there.

 

[CreamCream]

What changes are you proposing?

The most important thing is that if a cop gets caught doing this shit, fucking fire them immediately and never let them be a cop anywhere again. And if they committed crimes, such as murdering an innocent person, then arrest them and throw them in jail like you would any normal person.

After that, cops need to not be able to throw out any excuse to dismiss any of their wrongdoing. “I fear for my safety” is a get out of jail free card if you’re a cop and the person you killed is black. Works with a lot of white people getting killed too.

Cops have to stop being so trigger happy. Part of this is unfortunately because we have so many guns in this country. I don’t know if we’ll ever fix that, but when Philando Castile tells you he has a gun in the car, and it’s legal, and you tell him to get his ID and you get scared and unload shots into him while his 2 year old daughter is in the car, that’s a fucking problem.

There’s a lot more, but those are the main things.

 

[CreamCream]

They will be also far more safe without having to go there.

Yeah, it’s a hellhole of corruption and poverty and violence. The only people that seem to care are the ones on the ground.

 

[Jon Neu]

The most important thing is that if a cop gets caught doing this shit, fucking fire them immediately and never let them be a cop anywhere again. And if they committed crimes, such as murdering an innocent person, then arrest them and throw them in jail like you would any normal person.

That's a very symplistic way of looking at things. Of course everybody agrees a cop should be fired & thrown in jail if he commits a crime, but when you look at every case one by one you can see it's not always easy to determinate if there was actually a crime. For some people when anything happens between cops and black people is always "the cop was racist and wanted to kill someone because he was black", but very very rarely it's something that simple.

 

[CreamCream]

That's a very symplistic way of looking at things. Of course everybody agrees a cop should be fired & thrown in jail if he commits a crime, but when you look at every case one by one you can see it's not always easy to determinate if there was actually a crime. For some people when anything happens between cops and black people is always "the cop was racist and wanted to kill someone because he was black", but very very rarely it's something that simple.

Well what I do know is that there are many statistics and plenty of facts proving that police treat black people disproportionately unfairly, and that there are many cases that could be cited where it was very clear that regardless of whether the cop was racist or not, the victim they killed was black, innocent, and the cop was not punished.