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Could Halo have had a COD like run or was it destined to have a fall off? Halo was huge at one time.
- Thread starter havoc00
- Start date
Banjo64
cumsessed
Could it have? I’d say no because the developer had no desire to continue the franchise. Not to be pedantic but that’s all it comes down to. Activision have been able to keep churning these games out. Bungie didn’t want to do the same. If Bungie did have the will, would current day Halo still be pulling in 1m concurrent players like it was during Halo 3? IMO no, but it’d be putting in similar numbers to Destiny and would therefore be a lot more successful than it is with 343.
Halo actually had a soul so there was no way it would have been number 1 forever like COD. Also its a slower paced game and as we know the mainstream trends towards twitch shooting and realism so no not unless it became a different game (which it tried to do with 5 and Infinite).
Pelta88
Member
Remember how desperate Bungie was to get out of Microsoft’s corporate structure? Once Microsoft got hold off Halo and started enforcing their vision into the ip instead of letting the devs create… It was pretty much a done deal.
From Marquee franchise that created momentum, to Craig.
From Marquee franchise that created momentum, to Craig.
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Sushi_Combo
Member
It died after Reach. It was never going to reach those numbers again.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Halo was never marketed or released as a CoD style annual franchise, there's no overlap.
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I would say after 4, that game had an incredible campaign, stellar music, new cool enemies, and awesome new weapons, as someone who had no faith going in it had such promise in its future (4 really stumbled in its priorities with the competitive ranked online sort of things with random drops not balanced properly but Halo CE had bad balance issues in thier beginning so I saw it as excusable). Theres no way the same people who did 4 did 5 or infinite.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
There’s nothing about Halo that suggests “it’s nature is one story”.
You could easily turn that IP into the CoD model.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Destined to die off for many reasons:
- When Halo 1/2 were huge on Xbox OG, that's when lightning reflex arena shooters were still king. But when WWII and then Modern Warfare settings came about, people preferred the more grounded settings, slower paced games and asymmetrical MP maps. Legendary games Unreal, Quake and Doom disappeared too. Same twitchy ilk
- Halo is a console exclusive. I think it came to PC later, but it's still a very Xbox focused game. The biggest MP shooters are all multiplat, which just makes it harder for platform specific shooters to dominate
- Never seemed to evolve. I barely played Halo, but from what I see it's very similar to old games. At least with COD, it morphed to more customization (not old school red vs blue armour), tons of modes, various shooter franchises now focus or have BR mode
- Too much focus on SP and story. Out of all the major shooter franchises, how many gamers care that much about SP campaign as the priority? Hardly any. When it comes to shooters, it's MP first, SP second. halo always seemed promoted as SP first, MP second. At least thats the gist I got from trailers with Master Chief this, Cortana that, lore, etc.... I think most shooter gamers just want to know how good and meaty MP mode is first. And if it has a good SP mode, that's a bonus
- When Halo 1/2 were huge on Xbox OG, that's when lightning reflex arena shooters were still king. But when WWII and then Modern Warfare settings came about, people preferred the more grounded settings, slower paced games and asymmetrical MP maps. Legendary games Unreal, Quake and Doom disappeared too. Same twitchy ilk
- Halo is a console exclusive. I think it came to PC later, but it's still a very Xbox focused game. The biggest MP shooters are all multiplat, which just makes it harder for platform specific shooters to dominate
- Never seemed to evolve. I barely played Halo, but from what I see it's very similar to old games. At least with COD, it morphed to more customization (not old school red vs blue armour), tons of modes, various shooter franchises now focus or have BR mode
- Too much focus on SP and story. Out of all the major shooter franchises, how many gamers care that much about SP campaign as the priority? Hardly any. When it comes to shooters, it's MP first, SP second. halo always seemed promoted as SP first, MP second. At least thats the gist I got from trailers with Master Chief this, Cortana that, lore, etc.... I think most shooter gamers just want to know how good and meaty MP mode is first. And if it has a good SP mode, that's a bonus
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Not really. The moment COD gained a regular cadence of releases, started to produce different stories every game + being multiplat meant that it would surpass Halo. Not to mention, unlike Microsoft, Activisition had been heavily marketing COD not only with platform holders but also by itself.
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clarky
Gold Member
Id argue it died at Reach. The campaign was great but the MP was fucking shit and the start of the downfall.
Sushi_Combo
Member
It was a weaker mp game overall, but I really liked the unlockables as you kept playing and the firefight mode was pretty fire.
Those perk loadouts, especially the shield one (armor lock?) kinda broke me in many ways lol.
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Dr. Acid Avatar
Member
I kind of see what you mean but also disagree. Halo 2 and 3 definitely drove multiplayer gold subscriptions like nothing else. Halo 3 had a very short campaign and to me the multiplayer took the center stage, I had friends who lived on Halo 3 MP.
Iced Arcade
Member
naw Halo was never annually and casuals gravitated to COD because it was easy to get kills. love Halo but you get your ass handed to you online unless you spend a lot of time on it.
It could have been more popular than what it is now. But it couldn't have been the same as Call of Duty, for so many reasons, first and foremost because it was exclusive to the 360, and that when online started exploding on consoles, a multiplat game had better chance to start a virtuous circle of popularity, because everybody could play it, talk about it, be part of the competition. When CoD grabbed the crown it was over.
If we talk about the games themselves, as a business plan or the scale of investments, i think Microsoft weren't ambitious enough, already at the times of their peak in 2010. People were saying there were too many Halo games on 360, but the franchise started to crumble when they could not release new games at a steady pace.
Bungie left, so what ? All the biggest talents at Infinity Ward also left at the same time. Sure CoD wasn't the same after that, but Activision nevertheless made sure they had 3, 4 studios as back-up to produce new games, and they replaced all the ancient team at IW. Microsoft had a lot of time to prepare and still all we were left with was 343i, with some external help from Certain Affinity. They didn't do enough.
If we talk about the games themselves, as a business plan or the scale of investments, i think Microsoft weren't ambitious enough, already at the times of their peak in 2010. People were saying there were too many Halo games on 360, but the franchise started to crumble when they could not release new games at a steady pace.
Bungie left, so what ? All the biggest talents at Infinity Ward also left at the same time. Sure CoD wasn't the same after that, but Activision nevertheless made sure they had 3, 4 studios as back-up to produce new games, and they replaced all the ancient team at IW. Microsoft had a lot of time to prepare and still all we were left with was 343i, with some external help from Certain Affinity. They didn't do enough.
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The shield was unbalanced and the guns were balanced too balanced which made for weaker uninteresting guns. I hated all of the new power weapons in that game, nothing felt powerful. Invis was fun tho and Invasion was neat. Taking the multiplayer maps straight from the single player really hurt the campaign for me tho since it was a 1 to 1 rip and I played alot of the beta.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Yeah, I think Reach was something that killed Halo. At least triggered its decline.
clarky
Gold Member
The moment to stop leading and start chasing you're dead meat.
Its not all on 343.
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Laieon
Member
Reach is my favorite in the series, but I definitely agree with this.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Even Destiny never reached the cultural impact of Halo.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
No because perfect timing had a lot to do with its success. It just run its course.
Halo 1-3 were very good games but the timing of the rise of online MP and social media at the time helped.
COD is more casual friendly and it was built to be a annual release.
Halo 1-3 were very good games but the timing of the rise of online MP and social media at the time helped.
COD is more casual friendly and it was built to be a annual release.
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StealthGoblin
Banned
COD is annualised. Halo could never be.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Halo recently had a downfall after all kinds of success, it happens to franchises.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Best case scenario was MS allowing Bungie make Destiny but have them involved in consultancy work for 343. Halo would remain huge but with only access to one platform, its hard to be bigger than multiplatform games.
Saying Halo Reach killed Halo is like saying Call of Duty died with Call of Duty Ghosts, or even with the original Modern Warfare 3, since it was the first "Infinity Ward" game that didn't push the franchise further. It's not true, Call of Duty still sold millions after that. Even the suicidal bombing that was Infinite Warfare, that existed just to shit on Titanfall didn't kill the brand despite a loss of 10 millions copies.
It died because Microsoft let 4 years to pass before Halo 5 released, then 6 before Halo Infinite. They let the franchise become a distant memory, the result of those productions being the last nail in the coffin.
And they made Halo Infinite a GAAS, not because they had a brilliant idea that would blow everyone away, but because the production was a complete disaster. Halo appeals to a traditional public, it should have a similar model to traditional Call of Duty, a steady flow of releases. People laugh about the number of players of Halo Infinite on Steam, but Halo (just like CoD outside of Warzone) was never Counter-Strike nor Fortnite.
It died because Microsoft let 4 years to pass before Halo 5 released, then 6 before Halo Infinite. They let the franchise become a distant memory, the result of those productions being the last nail in the coffin.
And they made Halo Infinite a GAAS, not because they had a brilliant idea that would blow everyone away, but because the production was a complete disaster. Halo appeals to a traditional public, it should have a similar model to traditional Call of Duty, a steady flow of releases. People laugh about the number of players of Halo Infinite on Steam, but Halo (just like CoD outside of Warzone) was never Counter-Strike nor Fortnite.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
“COD is more casual friendly and it was built to be an annual release.”
Today cod’s multiplayer menus have a tremendous amount of menus, perks, loadouts, and cosmetics, that’s not the equivalent of casual CODs of the past. That’s good news for hardcore cod players.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Halo died because Microsoft were too stupid to let it succeed. CoD is fast? Sure. Destiny isn't, and it's hugely successful. Halo could have been a massive juggernaut into the 2010's and 2020's. The problem isn't the game's design. The problem is that Halo 5 launched on the Xbox One, a system that was clobbered by the PS4, it had no PC release to drive hype, and Halo Infinite is a notorious trainwreck, even if they've salvaged the mutiplayer.
They also managed to violate people's nostalgia by fucking up the MCC.
You want to blame someone? Blame Bonnie Ross.
They also managed to violate people's nostalgia by fucking up the MCC.
You want to blame someone? Blame Bonnie Ross.
clarky
Gold Member
.
Yup what kind of fucking idiot lets your crown jewel developer fuck off and make a multiplatform game.
Answer: Microsoft
Yup what kind of fucking idiot lets your crown jewel developer fuck off and make a multiplatform game.
Answer: Microsoft
Knightime_X
Member
They kept changing what made halo fun.
flying_sq
Member
Should have never kept using master chief or cortana after H3. H4 should have been about completely different people, with some references to MC and cortana, but nothing more than fan service moments or easter eggs. MS doubled down on MC being the face of Halo then did a trash version of it with H5 when it was too late and people had already started to check out.
You're asking the same question as " should we dump down the game to make it for the masses or focus on our core audiences? " you've forgotten the aging factor, a work of art isn't for printing money cause this business model definitely won't last forever, it happens at the cost of raging quits, or is it a work of art that cares about it's core audience, cause this sounds lasting much longer, no one accept contents at the hands of it's makers who think their audiences are stupid and will buy anything from us, this isn't acceptable and an unhealthy relationship that won't last forever.
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DEAD ORIGINAL
Member
Halo 2 was perfect Halo 3 was good but too many power ups like the bubble.Halo reach the jet pack and armour lock killed the game for me.
clarky
Gold Member
Not really, the longer TTK and slower gameplay doesn't wash with todays audience. They tried to and had to change but failed.
Halos core gameplay is dated. But in a catch 22 if you change anything about Halo then it loses its identity.
They should have just put it to bed and gone all in on Destiny with Bungie
RAIDEN1
Member
Halo as a franchise in of itself could have been a lot bigger, if they made a motion picture out of it, when it was at its peak of popularity.....ie 2009 or 2010's but for the best part of 20 years it never happened, and it is likely to never happen, and it is a bit of a minor miracle that the TV-show got off the ground despite it not exactly being Microsoft's answer to The Mandalorian...
Todays audience is dumb tho, they are raised on twitch shooters and have no impulse control. I agree with you if you doing it for money but in terms of quality Halo is methodical and excellent still, however I do think it did need to evolve naturally, to me that would mean suit upgrades being power weapon esk map pickups, more interactable stage stuff and eventually timed map events that change the map during certain times of a match to change things up mid game.
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clarky
Gold Member
I still enjoy Halo myself, but it carries too much baggage with it to evolve. Theres a reason the COD formula largely remains unchanged, it works.
The skill gap in Halo is massive and why it finds itself unable to pick up any traction with todays audience.
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I love the fact in Halo you can get shot in the back and turn around and out play them if your a good player, one of the best feelings, but yes Im sure that feels like ass on the other end haha.
Few players get their hands on better guns than the rest, that sounds more of a cod thing than a halo thing, it's a different game, doesn't make either of them better than the other, some people dislikes that they've picked the wrong set of guns, Halo isn't like that unless people got blinded and thinked one game is superior to the other.
clarky
Gold Member
I like the map control, with the power weapon spawns. Something you don't get these days with BR's or modern COD.
But then again i play more COD than I do Halo these days so that says a lot coming from a 50 year old grumpy cunt.
Calverz
Member
I don’t think so personally.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
What prevents Halo from following the CoD story formula?
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