• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Bloomberg: The Microsoft Studio Behind Halo Franchise Is All But Starting From Scratch (Unreal Engine Switch Confirmed?)

NikuNashi

Member
343 need to be taken out back behind the shed. It's an embarrassment for MS. I just hope lessons have been learned about what type of studio culture works and creates quality games and what doesn't.
 

Dane

Member
I still dont understand how you fuck up such a franchise like Halo
Because 343i was built out of greed by MS, they wouldn't want their golden egg laying chicken to go into a hiatus, its very common to go wrong in the industry. Halo Infinite marked all the hyper corporate words for a product they know it won't last "10 year platform" "build with us" and then Bonnie comparing it to Marvel in that Xbox Anniversary livestream, the higher ups were completely in a different page from the current XGS administration to the point of being asked to delay the game, in this industry where you have a mountain of opposite examples, it would be a career damning moment.
 

Sybrix

Member
Halo Infinite MP was a huge step up from Halo 5.

The ongoing service to the game however is severely lacking and that is what has killed the game. You can still get matches but the player base is tiny compared to other FPS games.

Infinite SP is another nail in the coffin, we all know how bad the reveal was and when the game come out the SP was meh at best.

Doesn’t look like any DLC is coming and seems to be the end of Infinite.
 

THE DUCK

Banned
Halo Infinite MP was a huge step up from Halo 5.

The ongoing service to the game however is severely lacking and that is what has killed the game. You can still get matches but the player base is tiny compared to other FPS games.

Infinite SP is another nail in the coffin, we all know how bad the reveal was and when the game come out the SP was meh at best.

Doesn’t look like any DLC is coming and seems to be the end of Infinite.

Wait didn't they sell/promise at least one or 2 single player expansions?
 
I now question the validity of this article seeing how they were wrong about the PSVR 2 production halt

Tell Me More Jeff Goldblum GIF by National Geographic Channel
This is not the Saka sucker that has Sony hate boner. He is the anti overtime and oppression guy.
 

ZehDon

Member
Its a more common occurrence than you think. CD Projekt RED basically did the same thing after their Cyberpunk 2077 fiasco.
One slight difference was that CDPR entered into a partnership with Epic to contribute to the Unreal Engine directly. They're bringing their open-world tech to Unreal Engine. Looking at the technology in Halo Infinite, I think 343i would've been laughed out of the room if they'd offered to contribute to Unreal Engine. The cost / benefit ratio is what made CDPR change their tech base. 343i are doing it out of sheer incompetence; Horizon: Forbidden West on PS4 looks better than Halo Infinite on Xbox Series X in every metric except rendering resolution.
 

sendit

Member
Its a more common occurrence than you think. CD Projekt RED basically did the same thing after their Cyberpunk 2077 fiasco.
Not comparable. Cyberpunk 2077 is about to receive a massive DLC on the same Red Engine. The Witcher 3 was released to critical acclaim using the same iterative Red Engine. CDProject has released three successful products on this engine. I think they got their moneys worth.
 

AmuroChan

Gold Member
They'd be insane to take it from 343i who just created a GOTY caliber title in Halo Infinite, and most clearly agree.

I think if "most clearly agree", 343 wouldn't be in the situation it's in right now. Also, my main point was that naming a studio 343 is dumb because it locks them into a single franchise.
 
Give the IP to someone else's and let 343i make a different game.

Why would 343i deserve to get a chance on a new IP? If they couldn't stick the landing with Halo after so many attempts, then they don't deserve that privilege.

If anyone deserves the opportunity to make a new IP it would be the productive studios like the Coalition. At least they can get polished games out the door.
 

GenericUser

Member
They need to completely reboot the halo franchise. I installed infinite the other day to see how the game is nowadays and this game is so bad, it's embarassing. It feels like a game from 2007 in terms of game design. The core of halo still works ( the moment to moment combat) but everything else needs a major overhaul.
 

Robb

Gold Member
I don’t really care which engine they use as long as they manage to get their shit together.
 

Mephisto40

Member
If the campaign died in a month, why is it consistently among the most-played games on Game Pass and on Xbox? It's 15th worldwide on Series consoles, above even Destiny 2. Halo Infinite overall has rarely left the top 20-25 of most played games across Xbox since launch. So, no, the game is very much not dead. Just because it isn't as popular on steam doesn't mean it isn't one of the most played games on Xbox.

If Halo is dead, Hi-Fi Rush must be also? Halo has stayed amongst the most played games. Has not gone anywhere. It can't be all that dead if countless other games have come and gone whereas it's still so heavily played.

juig3IP.png
You do realise Microsoft have the ability to skew these "Most played" lists don't you?

They are clearly going to give their own games an advantage of over other developers in their store. I'd bet it's hard coded to keep halo infinite near the top regardless of how badly it does
 
Not comparable. Cyberpunk 2077 is about to receive a massive DLC on the same Red Engine. The Witcher 3 was released to critical acclaim using the same iterative Red Engine. CDProject has released three successful products on this engine. I think they got their moneys worth.
SlipSpace is the same engine that's been used on Halo games since Combat Evolved (2001). 343i simply decided to give the engine an official name after upgrading it after Halo 5. I would say this engine also made its money's worth.
 
Last edited:
They need to completely reboot the halo franchise. I installed infinite the other day to see how the game is nowadays and this game is so bad, it's embarassing. It feels like a game from 2007 in terms of game design. The core of halo still works ( the moment to moment combat) but everything else needs a major overhaul.
Halo Infinite has much more verticality and fluidity of movement available to players. Halo Infinite has many weak points, but generally the core gameplay loop was not a criticism people pointed too. Not to mention Halo "fans" go crazy when anything that deviates from the OG formula is introduced.
 
Why would 343i deserve to get a chance on a new IP? If they couldn't stick the landing with Halo after so many attempts, then they don't deserve that privilege.

If anyone deserves the opportunity to make a new IP it would be the productive studios like the Coalition. At least they can get polished games out the door.
Giving a game studio with no experience making a game together an IP as important as Halo as their first game was a recipe for disaster from the get-go. Microsoft should have allowed them to make at least one small/medium sized project before Halo 4 just to gauge their performance.
 
One slight difference was that CDPR entered into a partnership with Epic to contribute to the Unreal Engine directly. They're bringing their open-world tech to Unreal Engine. Looking at the technology in Halo Infinite, I think 343i would've been laughed out of the room if they'd offered to contribute to Unreal Engine. The cost / benefit ratio is what made CDPR change their tech base. 343i are doing it out of sheer incompetence; Horizon: Forbidden West on PS4 looks better than Halo Infinite on Xbox Series X in every metric except rendering resolution.
I would say CD Projekt RED releasing a broken and bug-riddled game that wasn't in a playable state for console users for over 18-months should count as incompetence as well lol. Halo Infinite may have been a dissapointment, but it wasn't blacklisted from an online marketplace like Cyberpunk 2077 was.
 

ZehDon

Member
I would say CD Projekt RED releasing a broken and bug-riddled game that wasn't in a playable state for console users for over 18-months should count as incompetence as well lol. Halo Infinite may have been a dissapointment, but it wasn't blacklisted from an online marketplace like Cyberpunk 2077 was.
Not really. It was the base consoles that were the ones with the issues. CDPR bit off more than they could chew, sure, but I wouldn't put it down to incompetence - just an overestimation of what they could achieve. Then, they offered no questions asked refunds on every platform for months and months, so, I won't complain too much. And Cyberpunk was pulled because CDPR offering refunds put a spotlight on Sony's garbage refund system. Rather than implement a working system, Sony simply delisted the game so they wouldn't have to. There are indie games on the PlayStation store right now worse than Cyberpunk ever was, and Sony is happy to continue selling them because it didn't make headlines. I wouldn't use this as some kind of sign post.

And comparing CDPR to 343i is pretty hilarious to me. CDPR released a game with some bugs because they were too ambitious and didn't give themselves enough time to polish. 343i released a multiplayer only game where the multiplayer didn't work. 343i released an online game with a progression system where they had to hotfix the progression system because it was so bad it killed their day one numbers. They created a 125 level Battle Pass, only to gut 25 levels days before launch to put those items in the cash shop - but - forgot to update the Achievement Icon for finishing the Battle Pass so it still says 125 on it. When 343i delayed Season 2, their infrastructure is so broken they couldn't actually stop the progression system resets that happen at the end of a season. So, they pretended they were doing a "mid season" reset on the original Season 2 date - but - when this reset happened, in-game everything changed over to say "Season 2" because they couldn't stop it from happening and had to hot fix it back to say "Season 1". 343i released a game on a custom built engine that was so broken they couldn't add new multiplayer playlists for four months because their new custom engine built for this one game didn't support it. 343i's incompetence is legendary.
 
Last edited:
Not really. It was the base consoles that were the ones with the issues. CDPR bit off more than they could chew, sure, but I wouldn't put it down to incompetence - just an overestimation of what they could achieve. Then, they offered no questions asked refunds on every platform for months and months, so, I won't complain too much. And Cyberpunk was pulled because CDPR offering refunds put a spotlight on Sony's garbage refund system. Rather than implement a working system, Sony simply delisted the game so they wouldn't have to. There are indie games on the PlayStation store right now worse than Cyberpunk ever was, and Sony is happy to continue selling them because it didn't make headlines. I wouldn't use this as some kind of sign post.
Owners of Xbox One's and PS4s were given a bug-riddled mess that ran at sub 20fps and had some of worst asset streaming/pop-in ever seen in a game. Owners of XSXs and PS5s had to play a last-gen version of the game running at uncapped/unoptimized framerates and graphics settings well below what those consoles could provide. I own an XSX and I had to wait almost 18 months just to play a native version of the game. If that wasn't bad enough, there is clear evidence that CD Projekt RED knew exactly what they were doing and yet tried their hardest to hide the true nature of the issues in the weeks and months leading up to launch.

And comparing CDPR to 343i is pretty hilarious to me. CDPR released a game with some bugs because they were too ambitious and didn't give themselves enough time to polish.
The CyberPunk game shown at E3 2019 and the one that actually released are two completely different games. I won't go into a rant because this has been discussed to death before, but the downgrade in mission complexity and lifepaths were so large in scale that even CDPR stopped describing the game as a "Deep RPG" in their marketing material and changed the phrasing to "3rd person action".
 

fermcr

Member
"At least 95 people have been let go from 343"

Since the latest Halo had an absurd budget and the studio failed to deliver a great game, guess some people had to pay the price. I'm surprised it was only 95...
 

DaGwaphics

Member
That's actually a good way to get a team used to a new milestone and development pipeline and new engine. Just set a small project goal and do it.

At least it is an old game that could use a full remake at this point. If there is any truth to this, I wonder why they are moving to unreal vs. using ID Tech? Maybe they figure unreal puts them in the best position regardless of what direction they go with the next Halo game.

@ Salty Popsicle Salty Popsicle I think the Series versions of CP were next gen aware from launch day, they had custom settings over the base X1 game.
 
Last edited:
I wonder what the real reason is that MS won’t just take the halo franchise from 343. The fact they can’t figure out how to do progression, a battle pass or release maps in a timely fashion should be all the proof you need that they are not the studio for the job.
 

twilo99

Member
I've been saying this game needs a BR mode since it came out, it doesn't need to be BR title, it just needs to have the OPTION for people who want that experience.

Now, why not got idtech instead of unreal? Perhaphs idSoftware's engine is not good for BR type enviroment...
 

oldergamer

Member
The biggest problem at 343 ( outside some other issues) was they lacked tools and structure needed for a large team to handle hundreds of commits without breaking everything. They never invested in tools to make the job easier. They started infinite with unreal and could have finished it with the tool. They made a bad call to ditch unreal which set them way back. They never recovered.

Slipspace did nothing not offered by other engines other then limitations a lack of features.

They had to pull in multiple other studios to try and help them fix the tool chain but it was far too late. This cost both the coalition and turn 10 development time on thier games.

Bottom line is they should have stuck with unreal
 

ZehDon

Member
Owners of Xbox One's and PS4s were given a bug-riddled mess that ran at sub 20fps and had some of worst asset streaming/pop-in ever seen in a game...
And they were offered no questions asked refunds. If people took the refund, then they got their money back and they're happy. If people didn't take the refund, they accepted the game "as is" and are happy. What's your point?
... I own an XSX and I had to wait almost 18 months just to play a native version of the game...
Cool. In what way does this make them "incompetent" when other developers have also released next-gen patches? That CDPR chose to prioritise bug fixes and stability over graphics? I'd call that the opposite of incompetent.
...If that wasn't bad enough, there is clear evidence that CD Projekt RED knew exactly what they were doing and yet tried their hardest to hide the true nature of the issues in the weeks and months leading up to launch...
For the last gen console versions, that's certainly true. And they apologised and offered full refunds. What more did you want?
... but the downgrade in mission complexity and lifepaths were so large in scale that even CDPR stopped describing the game as a "Deep RPG" in their marketing material and changed the phrasing to "3rd person action"...
Considering the game doesn't have a 3rd Person mode, you're obviously not sure on what was said. I might suggest doing some research before posting. The game's always been described as an RPG - it still is.
 
giphy.gif


It's what should have happened between Halo 5 and Infinite in the last 6+ years. Phil held on to Bonnie's 343 far too long. A studio with repeated busted releases was approved to build their own engine. Madness at Xbox to let them try that, when Unreal was a far better fit for the game and show.
 
Last edited:
Cool. In what way does this make them "incompetent" when other developers have also released next-gen patches? That CDPR chose to prioritise bug fixes and stability over graphics? I'd call that the opposite of incompetent.
A next-gen patch implies the game released at a time when the XSX and PS5 weren't yet released. Cyberpunk 2077 released a month after the new consoles became available. It shouldn't have required a next-gen patch to begin with lol. Not sure why you are trying to minimize their actions.

Halo Infinite's issues stem mainly from the fact that post launch support has been meager, but the core game itself worked as advertised from day one, unlike Cyberpunk 2077.
 

ZehDon

Member
A next-gen patch implies the game released at a time when the XSX and PS5 weren't yet released. Cyberpunk 2077 released a month after the new consoles became available...
No, a next-gen patch implies the game wasn't a native application at launch. This was due to the game not targeting platforms that didn't exist during 99% of its development. They launched it, addressed the issues, and patched in the next gen features.

Halo Infinite's issues stem mainly from the fact that post launch support has been meager, but the core game itself worked as advertised from day one...
If you didn't play Halo Infinite at launch, you should just say that.
 

Elginer

Member
The campaign was weak sauce as fuck. The MP is fun but with no defining story ending and MP that lags yeah this needs to be brought back to the drawing board. Amazing how much money can be spent on producing lazy ass content and no show piece for what is powerful ass hardware. Fuck man, Guerrilla games did better with Horizon 2 and that's a cross ass gen game man.
 

Philfrag

Banned
If I was rebooting Halo I would get rid of Master Chief. He's corny as fuck and the weight of the epic story they try and tell each time is held back by this bulky, cringe motherfucker that couldn't grasp sprinting until fairly recently. Also get rid of the blue chick, again, very cringe. Just fast forward the universe a few hundred years, memorialise these lame characters and give some guns to some new faces. Don't worry, you can still keep your lame 'Hoorah's' and military industrial complex wankery but damn, something needs to change. To anyone who says 'you can't move past these characters, you wouldn't have Halo without them' - I say to you - this is why Halo is bad now. If you think Halo has no identity beyond these cartoon characters then just let it die. Lets get a fresh perspective on the big budget FPS experience.
 

Nydius

Member
but the core game itself worked as advertised from day one

Remember when Big Team Battle matchmaking was broken for almost two months and even if you'd get into a match it would end up being so laggy that it would crash out half of the players a few minutes in? Or how using the vaulting mechanic on certain maps (like Launch Site) could almost instantly desync the server? How about how the battle rifle in Ranked Arena wouldn't register shots? The campaign save file glitch that could erase your ENTIRE progress simply because you changed controllers or used Quick Resume? Not to mention texture glitches in the campaign's open world where you could fall through the world?

No, the bugs weren't on the same level as launch day Cyberpunk 2077, but to say it was working as advertised? When one of the multiplayer modes was unplayable for many for months? :LOL:
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom