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Could straight men and women just be friends?

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timetokill said:
General takeaway is I would feel comfortable putting money on the fact that if you took a random 10 male friends of the ladies here that more than one of them secretly would love to sex her up but knows it's not gonna happen. It's a fantasy, but they're not gonna do anything about it because it's a fantasy.
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I don't doubt it, but it's really unfair to paint a broad stroke over the entire gender.
 
This whole argument seems to be premised on the notion that a) if a guy is straight, he is attracted to all, most, or at the very least the women he is friends with and b) if he is attracted to a woman, he cannot reserve his feelings for that woman and must act on them.

I don't think A is necessarily true but, for the sake of argument, EVEN IF that part of the argument holds, B is most certainly not true (i.e. people can and do lie about their feelings, and more so when they are in a situation where they are uncertain their feelings will be reciprocated).

Fallacies all up in this bitch.
 
Two of my best and closest friends are women, one of which I've seen naked a few times and both of whom I sometimes sleep (as in just sleeping) with. Never felt attracted in the slightest, nor have they, I assume.

So... Yeah.
 
Oxigen_Waste said:
Two of my best and closest friends are women, one of which I've seen naked a few times and both of whom I sometimes sleep (as in just sleeping) with. Never felt attracted in the slightest, nor have they, I assume.

So... Yeah.
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At least one of them is in love with you.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
YES! I found it!

Why Men and Women can't be friends

In the beginning, all the girls say yes, guys and girls can be just friends, but then he asks, "so if you gave your best guy friend the opportunity to hook up with you, would he?" Yes across the board. This issue isn't complicated.
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Exactly! (I was trying to find this video also). Every girl should watch this haha.

B!TCH said:
This whole argument seems to be premised on the notion that a) if a guy is straight, he is attracted to all, most, or at the very least the women he is friends with and b) if he is attracted to a woman, he cannot reserve his feelings for that woman and must act on them.

I don't think A is necessarily true but, for the sake of argument, EVEN IF that part of the argument holds, B is most certainly not true (i.e. people can and do lie about their feelings, and more so when they are in a situation where they are uncertain their feelings will be reciprocated).

Fallacies all up in this bitch.
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Well of course a guy and girl can be friends even if the dude is super attracted to her, this isn't the issue. But it's not a general "friendship" its a one-sided friendship, which is much more complicated.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
I think I'm going to generalize here and say: Guys don't hang out with girls that they don't find attractive in some way. Period. End of story. For fucks sake, guys don't hang out with other guys they'd be embarrassed to be seen hanging out with in public!

And H.Protagonist, if your avatar is a self-portrait, I can promise you that your best guy friends think you're attractive - and that does not have to mean they're scheming to figure out how to hook up with you.
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It is me. And it's fine if people think other people are attractive when they're friends, it's just the thought of guys not even entertaining 'true' friendship with me (no sex at all ever) that smarts. It really does make you feel like all your good points are trumped by the odd off fact that you're a girl or that their true interest has nothing to do with you as a person.


LeBrick James said:
Not at all actually.

And don't think of it as the friendship being based solely on the hope of sex, or that this is always what we're scheming for. We truly enjoy your friendship. It often gives us a different kind of relationship and perspective than what we get from our guy friends. Again, it's just that if the opportunity for sex presents itself, most of us will go after it.

Friends are great, but sex is too.
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I guess I just value friendship higher. Sex is great and all, but to me it's just a bonus, a +1, not the point or purpose. At least in your interpretation the friendship is valued on some level for its own sake.


cutmeamango said:
When/if you are single again, one of your friends will try his odds, H.Protagonist.

You are compatible enough to have a probably lasting and close relationship, which true (heh) friendship. You have the same sexual orientation. Independently of your attractiveness, that makes you one of the greatest odds of the person finding someone to grow old together together, if he has any interest in this, that is.

It's not that the person will be seeking a "fuck buddy" (may happen though), but that you are cool enough that even if you had two penises, he would still be your buddy for 40 years or so, but since you don't have a penis, if chance arises, and mood, and whatever, why not be buddy for these 40 years with a babby, or three.

That does not mean friendships break when no possibility of that is left. Because, friendships.
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I actually did have a guy friend tell me this after I broke up with my boyfriend last year, but while he confessed that he had once had some feelings for me in that way and would have entertained the thought of pursuing it in the past, now we were such good friends that he would never risk losing that friendship and his feelings had changed. It seemed more like a priestly confession rather than a love confession. It showed that he did reflect some of what the guys here are saying, but that he moved past it and friendship only was all he wanted in the end. A half win for both sides of this argument.


And, all I really want from guys is purely friendship, companionship, and mutual respect. I can offer that, so I hope it's reciprocated cleanly, without the sexual interest. Or at the very least, the sexual interest is a mere passing thought overshadowed by more important matters like personal value and does not enter into the equation. I don't think people are automatons, but I do think they're capable of not being led about by some random twinge of the genitals. As you say, friendships are not so easily broken.
 
It's clearly possible for two single people of the opposite sex that are both heterosexual and both find the other attractive and both enjoy one another's company to just be friends. But seeing as when each is looking for a relationship (if they ever look for a relationship) they'll want it to be with someone who they enjoy the company of and who is attractive, they'd both have to have their own reasons for not wanting to have a relationship with the other for it to be platonic. What are the odds of that.
 
H.Protagonist said:
I actually did have a guy friend tell me this after I broke up with my boyfriend last year, but while he confessed that he had once had some feelings for me in that way and would have entertained the thought of pursuing it in the past, now we were such good friends that he would never risk losing that friendship and his feelings had changed. It seemed more like a priestly confession rather than a love confession. It showed that he did reflect some of what the guys here are saying, but that he moved past it and friendship only was all he wanted in the end. A half win for both sides of this argument.
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Well, good on you for still remaining friends with this person, cause that shit could get awkward as hell.

H.Protagonist said:
It is me. And it's fine if people think other people are attractive when they're friends, it's just the thought of guys not even entertaining 'true' friendship with me (no sex at all ever) that smarts. It really does make you feel like all your good points are trumped by the odd off fact that you're a girl or that their true interest has nothing to do with you as a person.
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You probably don't need to worry too much, imo.

At one of my previous jobs, the manager I reported to was smokin' hot. Extremely pretty face, huge voluptuous ass, big titties, etc. I'd hit that with the force of a thousand suns, but none of that got in the way of her being a kickass person to hang out with otherwise.
 
Oblivion said:
Well, good on you for still remaining friends with this person, cause that shit could get awkward as hell.



You probably don't need to worry too much, imo.

At one of my previous jobs, the manager I reported to was smokin' hot. Extremely pretty face, huge voluptuous ass, big titties, etc. I'd hit that with the force of a thousand suns, but none of that got in the way of her being a kickass person to hang out with otherwise.
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Well, he was essentially confessing that his sexual attraction had faded and been replaced by friendship, so there's that. His value as a friend to me is great and if he's able to move past such thoughts, I can accept that. It's not like I don't think people have passing fancies. Just that they're that. Daydreams, random thoughts, nothing more. And if they are more, make a decision and be at peace with it (leave or stay).

As for the second bit to your post... that's not really encouraging. Realistic maybe, but... ah, not encouraging. :P
 
H.Protagonist said:
I actually did have a guy friend tell me this after I broke up with my boyfriend last year, but while he confessed that he had once had some feelings for me in that way and would have entertained the thought of pursuing it in the past, now we were such good friends that he would never risk losing that friendship and his feelings had changed. It seemed more like a priestly confession rather than a love confession. It showed that he did reflect some of what the guys here are saying, but that he moved past it and friendship only was all he wanted in the end. A half win for both sides of this argument.

And, all I really want from guys is purely friendship, companionship, and mutual respect. I can offer that, so I hope it's reciprocated cleanly, without the sexual interest. Or at the very least, the sexual interest is a mere passing thought overshadowed by more important matters like personal value and does not enter into the equation. I don't think people are automatons, but I do think they're capable of not being led about by some random twinge of the genitals. As you say, friendships are not so easily broken.
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I do not know your friend, so this may be completely wrong, but often these types of confessions (regardless of gender!) are due a need to know your reaction.
If only to help move past/forward.

There is this elusive intersection of a venn diagram between 'friend' and 'lover' that we deeply wish the second was contained in the first. It would make life much easier. :'(
 
H.Protagonist said:
I actually did have a guy friend tell me this after I broke up with my boyfriend last year, but while he confessed that he had once had some feelings for me in that way and would have entertained the thought of pursuing it in the past, now we were such good friends that he would never risk losing that friendship and his feelings had changed.
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That's always an interesting scenario.

A confession like that can actually be a sort of closure. For instance, he's still into you when he says it, but it's kind of like a last chance thing... he'll throw it out there, check your reaction, and then if nothing happens he knows the ship has truly sailed and moves on. In other words, his confession is actually a projection of his future self, where he has accepted that a friendship is what you have together and he can finally let the fantasy go, so to speak.

Not to say your circumstance wasn't genuine, of course. Just musing.
 
I always thought that it was fine. Even with attraction to the other person. I had this one friend who I was really attracted too so I thought it was weird. I ended up getting with her
sober
. We aren't dating and we haven't had sex except for that one time. She's know my best female friend and we aren't dating.

We are all human why can't we be friends.
 
Can sex friends / regular hook-ups be "actual" friends? Now that is something I have a hard time imagining. You are either really distant or more than "friends".
 
timetokill said:
That's always an interesting scenario.

A confession like that can actually be a sort of closure. For instance, he's still into you when he says it, but it's kind of like a last chance thing... he'll throw it out there, check your reaction, and then if nothing happens he knows the ship has truly sailed and moves on. In other words, his confession is actually a projection of his future self, where he has accepted that a friendship is what you have together and he can finally let the fantasy go, so to speak.

Not to say your circumstance wasn't genuine, of course. Just musing.
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I didn't take it like a last chance thing at all. He was very clear in that he had no interest in the dating part anymore. In confessing he did seem to be letting something off his chest, but more like putting it to bed rather than one last chance for a reaction. I can't speak for what actually goes on in his head, but that's what it felt like (which is probably why we're still friends). And since I view my male friends with all the sexual interest one might muster for a kettle (with no deep-seeded kitchen appliance fetish), he knew his chances anyway, so I'd say it was genuine.
 
H.Protagonist said:
I didn't take it like a last chance thing at all. He was very clear in that he had no interest in the dating part anymore. In confessing he did seem to be letting something off his chest, but more like putting it to bed rather than one last chance for a reaction. I can't speak for what actually goes on in his head, but that's what it felt like (which is probably why we're still friends).
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That's awesome then :) Like I said, I was just musing.
I think we need more honest confessions in general. People hide a lot from each other and a lot of things would be a lot easier with more honesty.
 
BASICALLY MEN AND WOMEN CAN BE FRIENDS DUH OBVIOUSLY BUT THE THOUGHT OF ATTRACTION IS LIKELY GOING TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT AND WHETHER IT IS ACTED UPON IS ANOTHER MATTER ENTIRELY BUT THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE US ALL TWELVE YEAR OLDS WHO SEE EACH OTHER AS WALKING GENITALIA
THREAD OVER
 
Its pretty hard, since one will always have more feelings towards the other. On a side note, god damn I love friendzoning girls, feels like I'm taking revenge for my fallen brothers.
 
The Anti-Monitor said:
Let me sup this thread up for you:

Some people will say it's not possible.

Some people will say it's possible, as long as she's ugly.

Some people will say it's possible.

The first and third group will argue, some people of the third group will be quite naive and some people on the first group will be somewhat insensitive, before someone (most likely from the first group) will say something shockingly insulting and will derail the thread until he gets banned. Then everyone will lose interest on the thread.
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I didn't read the thread but did any of this happen yet?
 
Ugh, this thread is so depressing.

I have friends who are girls. I would also point out that some men have implicitly or explicitly challenged my masculinity because of this. Some have questioned whether I was gay; others have simply assumed I'm a whimp or that I'm lying and that I really do want to have sex with these girls but simply will not admit it.

And yes, to the girls who are reading this; it is extremely, depressingly uncommon to find men who can be friends with women and not want to have sex with them. It very much reminds me of how people will say it's the "inside that counts" when so few people actually mean that.

It makes me seethe with anger. It's frustrating because I actually mean it, but virtually no one believes it because for most it's apparently a meaningless platitude to placate civil society.
 
timetokill said:
That's awesome then :) Like I said, I was just musing.
I think we need more honest confessions in general. People hide a lot from each other and a lot of things would be a lot easier with more honesty.
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Of course. They won't always go over well, but honesty is best in these kids of situations.


HappyBivouac said:
BASICALLY MEN AND WOMEN CAN BE FRIENDS DUH OBVIOUSLY BUT THE THOUGHT OF ATTRACTION IS LIKELY GOING TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT AND WHETHER IT IS ACTED UPON IS ANOTHER MATTER ENTIRELY BUT THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE US ALL TWELVE YEAR OLDS WHO SEE EACH OTHER AS WALKING GENITALIA
THREAD OVER
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Not everyone is going to extremes or making such broad generalizations, but yes, your point is heard. No need to shout (though frustrating it may be).


Opiate said:
Ugh, this thread is so depressing.

I have friends who are girls. I would also point out that some men have implicitly or explicitly challenged my masculinity because of this. Some have questioned whether I was gay; others have simply assumed I'm a whimp or that I'm lying and that I really do want to have sex with these girls but simply will not admit it.

And yes, to the girls who are reading this; it is extremely, depressingly uncommon to find men who can be friends with women and not want to have sex with them. It very much reminds me of how people will say it's the "inside that counts" when so few people actually mean that.

It makes me seethe with anger. It's frustrating because I actually mean it, but virtually no one believes it because for most men I know it's a meaningless platitude to civil society.
Click to expand...

Well, women, if this thread is any indication, will believe you at least. Guys are another matter, it seems.


EDIT: Anyway, I'm to bed. Good night, all.
 
Opiate said:
Ugh, this thread is so depressing.

I have friends who are girls. I would also point out that some men have implicitly or explicitly challenged my masculinity because of this. Some have questioned whether I was gay; others have simply assumed I'm a whimp or that I'm lying and that I really do want to have sex with these girls but simply will not admit it.

And yes, to the girls who are reading this; it is extremely, depressingly uncommon to find men who can be friends with women and not want to have sex with them. It very much reminds me of how people will say it's the "inside that counts" when so few people actually mean that.

It makes me seethe with anger. It's frustrating because I actually mean it, but virtually no one believes it because for most men I know it's a meaningless platitude to civil society.
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Why am I not surprised that the kind of people too vapid to see value in platonic cross-sex friendship are incapable of seeing the world through anyone else's eyes.
 
So according to some of the people in this thread, since I don't have a girlfriend I'm trying to, or inevitably will want to bang every attractive female friend that I have.

Riiiiiiiiight.

Basically my hyperbole ridden post before was actually supposed to be how it works for everyone eh?
 
I could fuck my mate and still call her a mate, afterwards. To be honest, theres very few girls i'd turn down to bed, and the only ones I would turn down are the extremities of what i don't find attractive, ie makes my dick soft. However, once you see past the shallow layer of promiscuity theres not enough substance to say that they'd be anymore more than a friend - most of the time.
 
entrement said:
Personally, I think so, however, I cannot be friends with women I'm attracted to. It feels like torture, especially if she's not interested. I can't do the friendzone thing.

I'm not using friendship loosely here. I'm not taking co-workers, casual acquaintances, but friends you hang out with, talk and see on a regular basis.

Discuss.
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I agree. I somehow always get attracted to female friends. :/
 
As long as there's 0 attraction and/or 0 'gameplan'. By that I mean when like there is absolutely no compatibility for something long-term, I'm pretty commitment oriented, so it's a deal breaker for me.

Examples; There is this chick at work who is absolutely gorgeous, but she's just a typical California girl, which doesn't mesh well with me, so there is no attack plan brewing, no pursuit, nothing. So it's easy to be friends because there's just no plan there.

Another example; One of my best friends I've known for over 10 years and hang out with weekly is a chick, but she is not really physically attractive to me and we are polar opposites when it comes to relationships, so I just don't even think about it.
 
I'd like to think so, but when I think about my women friends I'd have sex with each and every one of them. I have a girlfriend though, so no problem. Thank god they don't read GAF.
 
I think really bad sex could make you a closer friend. Now you know that person like no other, and you both have a really funny inside joke you can share.
 
I think the OP should have included this critical question:

If you would hook up with your best female friend the moment she gave you the opportunity, are you both really "just friends?" Were you ever?

How many guys are going to say absolutely not/no/never to that? And.......does saying yes make you some sort of sex-crazed monster?
 
Devolution said:
Are you fourteen?
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I don't know. I think you may underestimate sexual desire. We're sexual beings. Not everyone is gonna succumb, but I've seem many people, whether through work or personal acquaintances go through affairs when stuff starts innocently enough.

I don't think everyone wants to fuck everyone else, but to deny the possibility of sexual attraction and desire is not the whole story and is independent of emotional maturity.

A poster mentioned about being able to sleep in the same bed with his attractive female friends. I cannot do that personally. I wouldn't consider myself immature for saying that, just knowing my limits.

Even with my female friends that I don't want any attraction to spark, I try to keep some boundaries.
 
I find the difference between posts by some straight men in this thread and gay men in this thread to be quite funny.

Gay men, who as a group are just as horny as straight men, seem to have no trouble keeping it in their pants when presented with a friendship of someone they find attractive.

H.Protagonist said:
And, all I really want from guys is purely friendship, companionship, and mutual respect. I can offer that, so I hope it's reciprocated cleanly, without the sexual interest. Or at the very least, the sexual interest is a mere passing thought overshadowed by more important matters like personal value and does not enter into the equation.
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Towards many of my female friends it's the bolded. Most of them are very attractive; but I've not remained friends with them for that reason. It would be a lie to say I've never had sexual thoughts about them, but they are passing thoughts. If I were single, I'm not sure I wouldn't at least gently test the waters with eligible candidates, especially since the great love of my life grew out of a friendship.

It is naïve to think that sexual thoughts can't or don't exist between friends, but incredibly immature to think that friendships without ulterior motives can't exist despite feelings of attraction.


Ghost_Protocol said:
If you would hook up with your best female friend the moment she gave you the opportunity, are you both really "just friends?" Were you ever?
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If you aren't crushing on her, and you aren't her lover, why wouldn't 'just friends' be accurate?
 
why does this thread happen so often? yes, they can be friends.

i'm in completely platonic relationships with straight/gay men/women.
 
For me it depends. If there is an initial attraction then no unless she has a serious significant other (whom I respect) from the start.
 
I am married with a kid, and one of my best friends is a woman that I have known for a long time. We have never been together, I have no desire to have sex with her. We eat lunch about once a week and she is my regular badminton partner. She is attractive, but so what?

It's not really hard. Sex isn't really a big deal, I have a friendship with her and a deep relationship with my wife and family.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
That's my question. Are you "just friends" with someone if you are also having sex with them?
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No, you said 'would you have sex with' not 'you're having sex with'.

In the latter case you're obviously not 'just friends', and in the former you might be 'just friends' so long as you aren't trying to pump her full of kindness coins (in which case you're an asshole).
 
Opiate said:
Ugh, this thread is so depressing.

I have friends who are girls. I would also point out that some men have implicitly or explicitly challenged my masculinity because of this. Some have questioned whether I was gay; others have simply assumed I'm a whimp or that I'm lying and that I really do want to have sex with these girls but simply will not admit it.

And yes, to the girls who are reading this; it is extremely, depressingly uncommon to find men who can be friends with women and not want to have sex with them. It very much reminds me of how people will say it's the "inside that counts" when so few people actually mean that.

It makes me seethe with anger. It's frustrating because I actually mean it, but virtually no one believes it because for most it's apparently a meaningless platitude to placate civil society.
Click to expand...

Well we all can't be gifted like you either dude not every is a superman or knight ;).
I kid I kid but you do look good though and I don't know if I could resist ya

The bolded is me with both male or female, as long as they look good anyway. Yep I won't deny it I don't care what you people say about me.
 
If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the problem with this question is that nobody draws the line between "just friends" and "friends + ?" at the same place.

To me, the moment there is any thought or feeling of attraction, you are no longer "just friends" and become something more complicated.

Others will say, "If you're not fucking regularly, then you're just friends."

and so on.
 
HappyBivouac said:
If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the problem with this question is that nobody draws the line between "just friends" and "friends + ?" at the same place.

To me, the moment there is any thought or feeling of attraction, you are no longer "just friends" and become something more complicated.

Others will say, "If you're not fucking regularly, then you're just friends."

and so on.
Click to expand...

To me, you are no longer "just friends" if feelings/attraction influence the relationship ostensibly in a fashion that is not consistent with how you would normally behave with strictly platonic friends.
 
The problem when this thread/topic comes up (every other month, or so) on GAF is that most people talk past each other. It's one extreme, or the other.
and of course PC-GAF slinging a few insults, but those are expected

People simply have different definitions of what "friend" means to them. Some who answered 'no' here, like myself, actually do have female friends, but we recognize it's a different friendship than it is with our male friends. (I know, I know, that makes us monsters.) Someone else talked about "knowing my limits", and that's how I feel, too.



LeBrick James said:
It's nothing much to do with you, and more to do with us. We can be good friends, great friends even. But if there's an opportunity somewhere, then most guys will take it.
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But unfortunately, that makes most guys (according to this thread) pathetic, feeble-minded, lonely individuals. :lol



Darknessbear said:
I'm sorry. I'll stand by that the majority of straight guys want to bang/would bang most woman.
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Yeah, I'd say that's true for most guys....just, aparently, not most guys on GAF.
 
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