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[Imbarkus]

No matter what the Switch launch lineup was, you could at least buy a cheap Micro SDXC to hold the game.

Sony rode the removable storage margins for Vita all the way to the system's grave.

People talk about the lack of first-party games... why spend the money? The storage was Sony's skin in this game.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I understand this but I think you are downplaying the games the Vita had at launch and lauch Window. Were they all Zelda Quality no but there were some good ones, especially for a handheld. I think we are just forgetting them.

I'm not. I am simply offering up the possibility that despite how much you might love the Vita launch lineup for its variety and quantity, that some people still might prefer Zelda if given the choice, and they would not be wrong, just like you would not be wrong for preferring the opposite.

 

[AmFreak]

Every big IP the Vita could have launched with would have been compared to the same IP on the PS3. A comparison the Vita can't win.
There is no "PS3" in the Switch case, more like the opposite.

 

[TheContact]

the Vita is my favorite hand held console of all time but that's just because I like playing PSX rpgs. Henkaku really put it over the edge though. It truly sucks it didn't get better games overall

 

[Oersted]

Nah, the hardware was the biggest thing Vita had going for it.
Though the other points still stand.

Quality hardware doesn't define appeal alone. See the Sony Xperia line. See Windows Phone. Comparatively, Wii and DS were weaksauce to what released in the same timeframe. But the hardware was massively appealing. Vita just had the touchpad on the back and noone gave a ratass about that.

 

[CamHostage]

Sure, but that's a problem when you are directly competing with them in a contracting market.

To a point, Nintendo and Sony are competing, but it's a little like how Madden is competing with Call of Duty ... they're competing for mindshare and time over a limited amount of dollars that the average buyer can spend on videogames, but the audiences tend to be into different things and entrenched in their own interests. Nintendo and Sony both have to carve out their own victories as much as they have to watch their back for the other's moves. Even in the console space, Nintendo's fluctuations are kind of about Nintendo fans leaving them for PS/Xbox products, but those fluctuations are also about Nintendo failing to make a case to new gamers that they should be Nintendo fans as well as make a case to experienced Nintendo fans that they should still play their games as they get older.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

It didn't get the type of sustained support that would sell the system which is the only support that matters.

It got consistent support from the only third parties it was ever gonna get support from, Japanese third parties and western indie devs. Western third parties have no interest in supporting handhelds, 3DS proves that much. Third party support isn't the problem, it's the first party support and marketing support from Sony. That's the big difference between why 3DS is a success and Vita was a failure.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Yes, and Breath Of The Wild is LeBron James. Which is better than, say, the Pacers.

LaBron is probably better at this point than my team the Knicks LOL but I doubt he would beat them by himself.

 

[MrBS]

I think this is too early to call OP and the situations are not 1:1

Vita had multiple decent launch games catering to different tastes. I never had a problem with the launch line up. I don't remember it being an issue at launch either. Sure there wasn't something to the calibre of Zelda but as someone who has no investment in Zelda the switch launch has been rough for me and I would have preferred something similar to Vita's launch.

Secondly 'as alive today' well five years is a long time. Zelda at launch wont be the defining success of the Switch five years from now or even one year from now. So many factors in play besides one incredibly well received launch game.

 

[FyreWulff]

No matter what the Switch launch lineup was, you could at least buy a cheap Micro SDXC to hold the game.

Sony rode the removable storage margins for Vita all the way to the system's grave.

People talk about the lack of first-party games... why spend the money? The storage was Sony's skin in this game.

^

the absurd price to even save games on the device killed it dead

 

[KLoWn]

Played a bit of Zelda but keep going back to Horizon Which imo is a more fun game to play.

Bought Zelda and play only a couple of hours. I prefer Horizon Zero Dawn.

Why do you keep bringing up Horizon? You sound extremely silly, and fanboyish, doing this.

 

[Kresnik258]

Id argue that bamco backed the vita moreso than the 3ds. Things like God Eater, the Digimon games, plenty of one piece, tales, sao titles etc

3DS got an equal number of Tales games and more One Piece games; one less Digimon game (remember Appmon was a thing. It bombed, but it was a thing). Plus more Dragon Ball games; those Disney Animal Crossing ripoffs; PacMan games; two Project X Zones; a Tekken port; a lot more Taiko etc.

And I would say an equal amount of flavor-of-the-month anime shovelware.

I'd say in list war terms, both handhelds did extremely well out of Bamco (and both are continuing to get games from them, lol). The difference is nearly all of 3DS' stuff was exclusive whereas barely any of Vita's was.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I'm not. I am simply offering up the possibility that despite how much you might love the Vita launch lineup for its variety and quantity, that some people still might prefer Zelda if given the choice, and they would not be wrong, just like you would not be wrong for preferring the opposite.

Let's just agree to disagree then. I do see your point though. I just think on top of variety and quantity there were a whole lot of quality there also.

 

[mrjohill]

All Sony has to do is go back in time and stop the traitorous capcpom from siding with Nintendo. Then at least Japanese sales would be fine lol

 

[Elwood Blues]

If they would have release the vita at $7 it may have been a success. It was basically DOA.

 

[Principate]

Vita was doomed in the west there was no saving it unless kt had the depth and breadth of Nintendo'a third party support. That's it's major issue. The market it cutthroat current due to mobile and consumers have to go out their way to way handhelds to ratify their needs which means it has to be more appealong than mobile. Frankly all the Japanese third party support in the world wouldn't have made the Vita massively well sell more because the IP's aren't strong enough in the west portable wise.

Nintendo only survives because it has almost all the strongest global portal Ip's the the of which would sell on any system which drives peole to their system to experience it. Even then they do so barely.

Sony would need a Pokemon level UP, a mario kart level IP, Mario level ip and BOTW to reasonable succeed just one won't get you fair.

Western 3rd parties were never going to support long term, consoles have their focus and vita ports would be a weak link. If they cared about portables they'd go mobile.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Why do you keep bringing up Horizon? You sound extremely silly, and fanboyish, doing this.

How so? I brought it up two times a while ago. I have both games and prefer one over the other. Am I not allowed without being call a fanboy. wow.

 

[Unknown?]

Gravity Rush and Golden Abyss were good, but nowhere near Breath of the Wild. I loved these games and my Vita, but nothing came close to Zelda.

That being said, the Vita's death is all on Sony's shoulders. It should still be alive today and doing great, but Sony didn't give it a chance.

Sure they weren't masterpiece caliber but Vita had way more good games at launch too. People are forgetful if they think those two were the only games Sony put on Vita.

GR, Uncharted, WipEout, Unit 12, and more came out near launch. It was the best launch lineup of any PlayStation device released.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

^

the absurd price to even save games on the device killed it dead

This IMO is the real reason for the Vita not doing as well as it could have. The memory card prices are crazy.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Maybe.


Side bar note I left my launch Vita, case, 64 MB card,like 4 game carts, and like 5 3DS games all in a hotel over the weekend.


Fuck. Me.

Jesus reading that stings.

I know it's a slim chance, but maybe the room cleaning staff found it and turned it in?

 

[Nictel]

If the Vita played PS3 games (at a lower resolution) sure

 

[Indelible]

I don't think so, Vita had really weak advertising and marketing so it really didn't matter what games it launched with. Switch on the other hand has had great advertising and messeging which has led to alot of success so far.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Sure they weren't masterpiece caliber but Vita had way more good games at launch too. People are forgetful if they think those two were the only games Sony put on Vita.

GR, Uncharted, WipEout, Unit 12, and more came out near launch. It was the best launch lineup of any PlayStation device released.

This is what I am trying to debate here but it appears no one remembers. If you put the two full lineup next to each other it would be clearer.

 

[18-Volt]

Vita could have been a bigger thing if it had an exclusive GTA game. There are just too few franchises left that people really care about and GTA is one of them.

But it still wouldn't be enough, there needs to be more to attract mainstream gamers. Gran Turismo could have been a much better system seller than likes of LBP, Tearaway and Killzone.

 

[get2sammyb]

Despite the Switch's strong start, I still don't believe there's as big a market for console-like games on the go as some on this board sometimes suggest. I definitely believe there'll be a limit to Nintendo's success once it's reached all of its hardcore fans and the people to whom a portable is appealing.

So, to answer the OP's question, I'm sure the Vita would have done better with a game like Breath of the Wild -- but not that much better.

 

[KLoWn]

How so? I brought it up two times a while ago. I have both games and prefer one over the other. Am I not allowed without being call a fanboy. wow.

If you can't tell then I won't even bother explaining.

 

[Chill Penguin]

This IMO is the real reason for the Vita not doing as well as it could have. The memory card prices are crazy.

I don't know if it was the reason for the masses, but me personally I vowed never to buy one for the dumb proprietary memory cards and their exorbitant prices. They lost the core gamer crowd with that decision.

 

[Freshmaker]

I still wonder if things would have turned out differently if they had called it the PSP2 and not Vita.

The wasted money on the 3G version... Still can't understand why someone thought that was a good idea.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't buy the memory card issue. The market as a whole was so apethetic to the Vita, and rejected it so swiftly that I doubt most people even got far enough to learn about the memory card prices. I don't buy that one bit, despite the personal anecdotes I'm sure people on an enthusiast website like NeoGAF will share. For a product to fail as badly as the Vita did the issues go much deeper than expensive storage options. People just did not give a shit about it.

 

[Dangansona]

This IMO is the real reason for the Vita not doing as well as it could have. The memory card prices are crazy.

They really weren't that bad...

I don't buy the memory card issue. The market as a whole was so apethetic to the Vita, and rejected it so swiftly that I doubt most people even got far enough to learn about the memory card prices. I don't buy that one bit, despite the personal anecdotes I'm sure people on an enthusiast website like NeoGAF will share. For a product to fail as badly as the Vita did the issues go much deeper than expensive storage options. People just did not give a shit about it.

This is the truth. In the first couple crucial years for the Vita it wasn't the memory cards or library that killed the Vita. You all killed the Vita. And when enough people didn't buy it, well yeah we aren't getting AAA original titles on it.

 

[Celine]

People love to state opinions as facts, many news shows make careers out of it. The fact is if we do look at this scientifically I think we would see that the individual Vita launch games likey did better than Switch launch games minus Zelda. On that same page though I can say with extreme confidence that no Vita game had more than a 100% attach rate. It's comparing apples to apples, just different kinds of apples.

I don't think so.

USA

Here a few figures (well brackets) leaked years ago:

Vita launch games ltd until June 2012 in US (5 months of sales)

01. Uncharted: Golden Abyss
200k
02. Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3
100k
03. Unit 13
04. MLB: The Show 12
05. Modnation Racers: Road Trip
06. FIFA Soccer
07. WipEout 2048
08. Mortal Kombat
09. Rayman Origins
10. Hot Shots Golf
50k
11. Resistance: Burning Skies
12. Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus
40k
13. Gravity Rush
14. Little Deviants
15. Dungeon Hunter: Alliance
30k
16. Metal Gear Solid HD Collection
17. Lumines: Electronic Symphony
18. Dynasty Warriors Next
19. Ridge Racer
20k
20. Touch My Katamari

Switch first month:
Zelda BotW: 925K
1 2 Switch: roughly 175K
Super Bomberman R: in the Top 20, likely > 100K

Japan

First week sales in Japan (Famitsu):

PlayStation Vita:

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational - 51.577
Uncharted: Golden Abyss - 43.042
Dynasty Warriors Next - 32.044
Lord of Apocalypse - 29.111
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention - 21.848

Nintendo Switch:

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 193.060
1 2 Switch - 82.392
Super Bomberman R - 39.609
Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch - 25.929
Puyo Puyo Tetris S - 12.866

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I don't know if it was the reason for the masses, but me personally I vowed never to buy one for the dumb proprietary memory cards and their exorbitant prices. They lost the core gamer crowd with that decision.

It definitely had a huge negative effect on the core gamer crowd. I mean after you got the system and some games you were already several hundreds in and THEN you need to get a ridiculously priced memory card. Not to mention the larger ones were not even available in US.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Don't go dissing Nintendogs

Spoiler

I can't believe Nintendo thought that was ok

It's weird too because that strategy didn't work for Nintendo. The 3DS didn't sell well at all for the first six or seven months but even the Vita with Uncharted, Resistance, Gravity Rush and a fucking Call of Duty game still wasn't enough to stop it from dropping like a rock.

 

[modsbox]

Storage cost was a bigger issue than Sony ever acknowledged. If Vita 2000 took micro sdxc it would have been really interesting.

That said I feel as though part of this is that it's extremely difficult for a hardware company to have both a handheld and a console system at the same time with different software libraries. and actually deliver great support for both.

It's just too easy for a company (and third parties) to eventually ride the success of the platform that's doing well (in the case of Vita, the PS3 and PS4, or with Nintendo and the Wii U, with 3DS) to the detriment of the other platform.

I suppose you could argue that Nintendo supported both Wii and DS well at the same time, but I'd argue that it was more that we perceived them as well supported because third parties were pumping out so many titles for each because the hardware sold so well.

What I think would be the coolest is if Sony released a handheld PS4 in something similar to a Vita form factor whenever that's technically possible. Same software base, same player base, instantly hundreds of titles. Micro SDXC will have plenty of capacity at that point for a cheap price, and they could include 64GB storage or similar by default. I'd happily pay $300 for a truly portable PS4 whenever they can do it. All the benefits Nintendo is getting with the Switch, but in reverse.

 

[flaviusconstantius]

The problem was not the lack of quality of the launch lineup. The problem is that Sony's first party brands do not have the name recognition or resonance of even second tier Nintendo ones. Uncharted was associated with what was at the time a struggling 3rd place console(PS3) and all the other brands were recent. They were the type of quality titles that people would have bought had they been interested in buying the Vita as a piece of hardware, but as there was no interest in the hardware none of those titles was going to make anyone purchase it.

By contrast, Zelda is a system seller. It occupies a unique spot in the memory of a generation which for the first time has the money to buy a system, but in many cases suddenly has long commutes on planes where the Switch is appealing. This generation got their start on the Nintendo 64, and the line-up of the Switch - 3d Zelda, Mario Kart, 3d Mario later, is directly designed to appeal to Nintendo 64 nostalgia.

Beyond that the Switch is a more appealing product for the time it launched. Whereas the Vita looked like a bulky, new version of a dying industry(handhelds), the Switch is a tablet designed for games. Rather than being a game system that could double as a poor phone that you would never want to be seen using(most of the Vita's I saw at launch were being used to hawk 3G phone plans which was a catastrophic branding error), the Switch is a fancy looking tablet that can also play Nintendo games.

It is obvious why the Switch is doing things in the West the Vita did not. It is also clear that there is very little Sony could have done about it. Sony first party products did not have that sort of pull. Japanese third party titles didn't either. Maybe a mainline Final Fantasy might have done something. Frankly though, Sony would have been better off spending their money to launch with high quality ports of Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, Bully, and Oblivion if they wanted to appeal to the Western market(all of which could likely have run, with the former two having Android ports).

 

[nycgamer4ever]

They really weren't that bad...



This is the truth. In the first couple crucial years for the Vita it wasn't the memory cards or library that killed the Vita. You all killed the Vita. And when enough people didn't buy it, well yeah we aren't getting AAA original titles on it.

The smaller ones were but if you wanted a large one it was expensive and you had to import.

 

[commish]

They really weren't that bad...

What.... as I type, a 16gb vita card is $45 on amazon. That is insane.

 

[kitchenmotors]

Based on what quantity? I mean Zelda single handily outsold the entire launch lineup of the Vita.



The Switch is a console. It hooks up the TV. The fact that it is portable is wonderful but you cannot deny the appeal of it as home console.

Based on nothing.

Vita's launch games can't compare to the quality of Zelda. It's not even a fair fight.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I don't think so.

USA

Here a few figures (well brackets) leaked years ago:

Vita launch games ltd until June 2012 in US (5 months of sales)

01. Uncharted: Golden Abyss
200k
02. Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3
100k
03. Unit 13
04. MLB: The Show 12
05. Modnation Racers: Road Trip
06. FIFA Soccer
07. WipEout 2048
08. Mortal Kombat
09. Rayman Origins
10. Hot Shots Golf
50k
11. Resistance: Burning Skies
12. Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus
40k
13. Gravity Rush
14. Little Deviants
15. Dungeon Hunter: Alliance
30k
16. Metal Gear Solid HD Collection
17. Lumines: Electronic Symphony
18. Dynasty Warriors Next
19. Ridge Racer
20k
20. Touch My Katamari

Switch first month:
Zelda BotW: 925K
1 2 Switch: roughly 175K
Super Bomberman R: in the Top 20, likely > 100K

Japan

First week sales in Japan (Famitsu):

PlayStation Vita:

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational - 51.577
Uncharted: Golden Abyss - 43.042
Dynasty Warriors Next - 32.044
Lord of Apocalypse - 29.111
Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention - 21.848

Nintendo Switch:

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 193.060
1 2 Switch - 82.392
Super Bomberman R - 39.609
Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch - 25.929
Puyo Puyo Tetris S - 12.866

I didn't want to post a list but since you did look at the two compared, notwithstanding the sales. There are a lot of quality games in the list.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What.... as I type, a 16gb vita card is $45 on amazon. That is insane.

How much space does your average user need? I use the 8gb pack in, bought a 16 gb and have yet to use it. If someone really wanted the system that bad they would work around the memory card issues. Are they an inconvenience? Sure, but I do not believe they were a deal breaker for any meaningful portion of the potential audience.

Much like the Wii U, the audience that made the PSP a success were long gone and what you had left for Vita was diehards and enthusiasts. The thing just had zero mass market appeal. Bringing up the memory cards or the name just feels like people refusing to accept that something they liked (or potentially like) was a complete non-starter for the general consumer.

 

[Plinko]

Fact of the matter is that Sony didn't produce enough games that the general consumer wanted to play on a handheld. A game like Zelda would have helped, but then they'd have had to follow that up with more. They clearly didn't have the ability to do so.

 

[entremet]

This is what I am trying to debate here but it appears no one remembers. If you put the two full lineup next to each other it would be clearer.

Best is determined by the market response if we're talking consumer reception.

Fact is, many gamers simply did not care about those games.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Based on nothing.

Vita's launch games can't compare to the quality of Zelda. It's not even a fair fight.

Not many games or franchises can compare to Zelda but that shouldn't be the reason why there isn't a debate.

 

[Dangansona]

What.... as I type, a 16gb vita card is $45 on amazon. That is insane.

How much space does your average user need? I use the 8gb pack in, bought a 16 gb and have yet to use it. If someone really wanted the system that bad they would work around the memory card issues. Are they an inconvenience? Sure, but I do not believe they were a deal breaker for any meaningful portion of the potential audience.

When you buy a console it's $60 for a second controller nowadays. Also the PS4/Xbox One had comparatively limited hard drives. Plus look at all the shit people are buying for the Switch!

45-60 dollars for a memory card is an ask if you feel like you truly need one but people are spending that money on other console accessories.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

If it used microSD too.

 

[DecoReturns]

What was the first major seller for 3DS?
3D land?

The Vita didn't have the sellers and it was way too expensive honestly to succeed.

I like mine tho

 

[commish]

How much space does your average user need? I use the 8gb pack in, bought a 16 gb and have yet to use it. If someone really wanted the system that bad they would work around the memory card issues. Are they an inconvenience? Sure, but I do not believe they were a deal breaker for any meaningful portion of the potential audience.

Well, you have 6 years of complaints about memory card prices going against you. There was no built in memory so you had to buy one, and, at these prices, that DRASTICALLY increased the cost of owning the system. And, if you really wanted to play a lot of games on the system, you'd need more than one (I have 3 that I rotate).

No one is saying it is the sole reason for its failure - of course not. But it was a contributing factor.

 

[entremet]

What was the first major seller for 3DS?
3D land?

The Vita didn't have the sellers and it was way too expensive honestly to succeed.

I like mine tho

Super SFIV 3D did really well. Launch title.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

When you buy a console it's $60 for a second controller nowadays. Also the PS4/Xbox One had comparatively limited hard drives. Plus look at all the shit people are buying for the Switch!

Exactly. People are spending hundreds of dollars on Switch accessories because the core product itself is appealing. Hell people still buy iPhones with limited storage space by the truckloads. There is next to no evidence that memory card space is an inhibitor to the general consumer.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

Probably not in the long run. Mainly because of memory cards, and the lack of follow up support it would have had. Having said that the Vita is still the only gaming handheld that I have kept longer than a couple of months. I played the shit out of that thing. Hell, my Switch has never left its dock, and hasn't been turned on in weeks. Zelda is good I guess, but it is still just one game, and I need variety to keep interest.