Support NeoGAF

[Nigglo Nash]

rabble rabble

 

[jjasper]

I was posting at work and was too brief. I was pointing out the bold part and laughing at it - should have used an emoticon. The rest is pretty spot-on, but the bolded section is a joke.

ooooooooooooh. Gotcha. Makes a little more sense now.:lol

 

[xaosslug]

what the heck happened to this board? :.(

 

[Nigglo Nash]

what the heck happened to this board? :.(

PS3?

 

[GhaleonEB]

ooooooooooooh. Gotcha. Makes a little more sense now.:lol

Original post that caused all that confusion edited for clarity.

what the heck happened to this board? :.(

$600 ****in dollars

 

[Oblivion]

what the heck happened to this board? :.(

What do you mean?

 

[travisbickle]

I think they can stream more media off a bluray disc?

And as for more content, tough shit if it costs more, people will appreciate it, the industry has to move somewhere and offering extra content, like movies, makes it more accessible.

 

[Mojovonio]

I think they can stream more media off a bluray disc?

And as for more content, tough shit if it costs more, people will appreciate it, the industry has to move somewhere and offering extra content, like movies, makes it more accessible.

But isn't the blu-ray drive really slow?

More extras would be very nice, but again, it costs money that devs might not have. I think it'll be a very select few games that go over the limits of a dvd-9 disc, even with multiplatform games.

I just don't see Sony's intention of Bluray on the PS3 to enhance games. They saw what the PS2 did for the DVD market, and hope to replicate it with their own proprietary format.

 

[buckfutter]

But exactly what impact will it have on gaming?

I never understood the potenital Blu-ray has for gaming. Aside from 1080p FMV cutscenes, what else is an advantage?

Higher Resolution Textures? Not enough ram to support them.
More Content? Equates more development time, equates to a bigger budget, or not being able to add enough content because they're passing budget.

As its been mentioned on here before, and I know there's a Bethesda dev around here somewhere who mentioned it as well, you can store much more on a DVD-9 disc than most people think.

Oblivion is a redundant example, but its a good one.

Higher quality audio, higher quality textures (ram issues aside, less compression on the disk could possibly help in this regard), constant read speed and space for massive data replication can help with streaming content, less time wasted in development on fitting the game to a single disc (if you can't justify the increased production costs to split the game across discs, which has lead to cut features before). And not to take away from the technical achievement, but Oblivion manages to be so space efficient because it uses a lot of instancing and common tilesets. The effect is great, no question, but assuming you've got the cash and time you can concentrate less on building environments from common elements and more on creating unique locales.

A lot of people think that there may be a problem when it comes to large, streaming titles, but that probably won't be the case. It's not going to be a "Go over the bridge and switch to disc 2" kind of problem with DVDs, as you can keep the environment data on multiple discs and split up the mission/story content chronologically - you reach a certain part of the game, switch discs and keep going. But there may be a problem with future racing/fps titles. Imagine you're playing UT2K7. Now imagine that not all of the maps fit on one disk. Could you imagine switching discs between rounds?

Of course, this is all speculative at the moment. There's no telling how many developers will actually find a significant use for Blu-Ray's space, or if 360 devs will ever find themselves crippling restricted by DVD. But that's why I said potential. As has been pointed out many times already, it's too early to make a call.

 

[Archie]

what the heck happened to this board? :.(

sdf is having to work overtime now and days

 

[buckfutter]

sdf is having to work overtime now and days

Sony convinced them that working overtime is necessary to get their PS3s, what do you expect?

 

[Zaptruder]

Here's an article I wrote but never got around to finishing. I summarized the points I was going to use for the latter parts.

News of the Playstation 3's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Clearing of the storm
Since E3 2006, there have been a great multitudinous of cries about the demise of the PS3, or just general shock and exasperation expressed at the high price points and the scaling back of features from what was originally announced. However, price shock is starting to wear off for many, and even though there has been a great deal of misinformation by panicked and uninformed, answers are starting to roll in, and the outlook for the PS3 isn't quite as bleak as initially believed after the Sony conference.

Price points
Lets get the meat of the issue here. Yes the PS3 is expensive. Both configurations will be more expensive then most consoles to this point in time (with the premium version been bested only by the Neo Geo on its release). But contrary to the alarmist and the doomsayers, it's not so expensive as to require a second mortgage. Indeed, people routinely pay such prices for a variety of luxury goods, ranging from AV equipment, to early adopters of technologies such as DVD players, Apple ipods, and even the competing Xbox 360s during their launch where availability was scarce.
But, unlike most other things, the PS3 will perhaps do more then most, rivalling very competent home theatre PCs which sit in the 1.5-3 thousand dollar price range.
The prices then, are exorbitant for what is just a console. $500 to just play games, when the general public is far more use to paying in the region of $150? But what the general public doesn't appreciate right now is that it will offer more than just the playing of games, with features covering items that people routinely pay for seperately and indeed will do into the future.
Is the PS3 expensive then? It certainly is, but it's expense will pale in comparison to the breadth of features it covers.

Features offered
BD, games, BC, browser, chat, online.
So what are those features that make it so damned good that it could possibly hope to justify it's exorbitant price tag?
Outside of the required functionality of playing PS3 games, the most obvious one would be the Bluray Disc player. With stand alone players launching at USD1000 and prices coming to parity with the PS3 by years end, a PS3 along with your BD player seems like a steal. But how big can the market for BD players be right now? Most people still don't have HDTVs, and would see the BD as an unnecessary and even unwanted expense. Even those with HDTVs aren't necessarily jumping at the prospect of HD movies on their HD screens.
Even though the BD, contributing a large factor to the high price and to the value of the console won't be appreciated by most immediately, there are other functions that help round out the PS3, access to streaming media across the network, voice/video chat and IMing, an open but feature filled online system and even an internet browser.

First on the network streaming; by default this will include pictures, music streamed across the network, functionalities available to X360. But unlike the X360 which requires a special OS, it will also throw in the video streaming by default. Indeed, you don't even need a windows compatible PC, or even a PC to enable network streaming, if you're in possession of one of the fancy NAS (Network Access Storage) boxes. Indeed, with hard drives standard to all PS3s, you'll be able to play videos, music, pictures of the PS3 without need of any other devices.
Voice and video chat as well as instant messaging will help user cover the whole spectrum of communication options which until the last decade were considered almost the realm of science fiction. With the PS3, while the voice and video devices will have to be bought seperately (you need a microphone and camera), you can be assured the functionality will be quite standardized thanks to the standard PC inputs (USB, bluetooth). Most likely this will mean you can walk into a store and pick up your choice of bluetooth/USB mic and USB webcam. For PS2 owners with eyetoys, it will mean that they can simply transplant their current eyetoy to their new system without missing a beat.

Although internet browsers have been around for a while now, until recently, they've been exclusively in the domain of PCs, and more recently on tiny devices which for the most part require specially optimized pages for a usable experience. There has even been a few attempts to bring the internet to the living room TV, although never to any great deal of success.
The PS3 will try again, but unlike other devices, should have a better luck of it. Firstly, the PS3 uses standardized USB2.0 inputs, making compatible keyboards and mouses trivially easy to find. Secondly it supports HD resolutions, upto 1920x1080, which is a higher resolution then most people browse the web at... enough for 2 windows side by side. Even the lower 720p standard will provide more then enough real estate for a competent web browsing experience, as most websites are optimised for 1024 wide resolution (with vertical resolutions been less of a concern), less then the 1280. SDTV users won't be entirely left out, been provided with a usable 480p resolution (640x480 - certainly not bad compared to mobile devices!); when they do upgrade to HD, the PS3 will be ready for them in all respects, including enhancing their internet experience. Finally, internet infrastructure has finally matured to the point where a lot of the features promised in its early days have come into fruition. A good proportion of people that have access to the internet also have access to economically feasible access to broadband. The ability to stream music, videos, etc have become a reality; and those are the functionalities that play in so well with a living room internet capable device.
The PS3 probably won't bring the internet to you for the first time, but then you've probably never thought of browsing it from your living room. But like a lot of things that people don't think of; they only realise they want or even need it after you tell them about it! Like the other functions outside of playing games on the PS3, this is one that adds value in utility to the machine.

Like the internet browser will be to the PS3, backwards compatibility is to the PS2; it's something that people didn't realise they wanted or needed before it, but now they have it, you wouldn't dream of taking it away. Which is why it's notable that the PS3 will indeed be capable of full backwards compatibility with PS1 and PS2 games. They've even gone so far as to incur significant costs by giving the PS3 a hardware solution as fail safe when software doesn't work (and as the X360 has proven, it doesn't really). But it would be premature to write-off the PS3s ability to enhance their massive library of older games; Sony will continue to develop a general software solution; unlike Microsoft, they have an incentive to perfect it - doing so will allow them to remove the more costly hardware solution at a later date. Launch owners will get the best of both worlds though; with frequent updates of their console, they too will be able to experience the enhancements of software based enhancements in their games, while still retaining hardware compatibility with some PS2 games that would make some more obscure coding methods.

While Xbox owners have enjoyed Xbox Live for the lifespan of their consoles, with PS2 owners dealing with a relatively incomplete and spotty service, the PS3 is set to change things. Details at this stage are unfortunately less than complete. But what we've been told so far is that there will be core services, including online gameplay that will be free of charge on their new network. Other features such as friends list such as found in Xbox Live are also included in this basic service. Their primary revenue stream for the online network will be from more premium style features and downloadable extras, such as extra tracks or vehicle packs in the next Gran Turismo game or even extra songs for Singstar (which double nicely as videotracks of your favorite songs).
The plan for Sony seems clear then; to leverage the energy and excitement that a large online userbase creates and have them spend big at the Sony online store.

Feature clarification.
std. vs premium HD.

When Sony unveiled the PS3 at the Sony conference before E32005, people were astonished. Absolutely floored by the specs and the demonstrations that the machines were showing. Many fans and websites bought entirely into the hype. However, when shown again this year, the over promising of last year caused a tremendous backlash as previously shown features were removed and the real time demos in progress failed to live upto the memories of Killzone 2 and Motorstorm trailers.
Getting past the hyperbole, lets have a look at what they did announce, and what did make it in. 7 USB 2.0 ports, 2 HDMI ports, bluetooth, memory card reader (SD card, Mem sticks, etc), BD Rom, 2.5" HDD bay (not the HDD itself).

Here's what did make it in; 4 USB2.0 ports, 1 HDMI out (if you pay for the premium version), blue tooth, memory card reader (premium only), BD rom, 2.5" HDD bay. Oh and they made it black.

And threw in a 2.5" HDD.

Lets look at the HDD they did include firstly. 20 gig or a 60 gig variant. Perhaps an unassuming inclusion at first, afterall the Xbox comes with it, and its an option for the X360. But what the HDD will allow is for the PS3 to properly leverage all its advantages; it will allow for smoother gameplay experiences. It also means players won't need memory stick; a $40-$60 charge that may or may not reoccur (depending on how many games a player had and wanted saved), that for some reason or another, people don't really account for.
It will also mean that developers can develop games with the HDD in mind, without fear of fracturing the userbase. The possibilities could include in say a GTA style game, making permanent changes to the game world - so the signpost you knocked over and the barrier you dinged up when getting to learn the ropes of the game will still be there when you're at the end of the game jetpacking around or flying around in helicopters.
But its primary benefits will be in allowing the PS3 to leverage the additional functionality that the rest of the components make it capable of. Media storage; MP3s, videos, even internet access are made easily possible with access to a HDD. It'll even be possible for the PS3 to run a computing operating system to rival Windows, like Linux for example...

Moving away from that topic for a moment, a lot of contention with the PS3 lies in the fact that they're even offering 2 packages to begin with; as it seems apparent to some that it's an obvious cheap ploy to introduce a ludricrously priced console along side a very expensive one, while making the less expensive one totally unfeasible.
In addition to the high price and removal of 1 HDMI port, betraying expectations, the standard pack seems to rub salt in the wound further by removing the other HDMI port as well as the memory card readers, reducing the size of the HDD (60 vs 20).

A quick analysis of the features removed however shows that the right features were scaled back on, with the result been a viable standard pack as well as a premium pack, as opposed to a maligned 'retard' pack which denotes unusable, undesirable, unviable nature of the package.

First the HDMI; a digital audio/visual connection with content protection, it's the new standard in AV equipment. Very handy, but at the same time, not quite as important as you'd think; With it been such a new standard, it generally means only newer HDTVs will have a HDMI connection. That leaves a lot of current TV owners without a HDMI input. It may be an issue when owners go to upgrade their TVs, but the option is there for the premium pack, if people require that kind of future proofing. But more to the point, the component output available to both packs is more than adequate for 98% of HDTVs out there.
With all but a handful of HDTVs currently available, and most been released in the next couple years been a resolution closer to 1280x720 (720p standard), component output will not miss a beat in terms of visual fidelity, as it's easily technically capable of above those resolutions, and companies will not be placing any significant restrictions on it.
The more contentious issue with the use of component output, and the frequently misunderstood problem has to do with HD contents use of HDCP (digital content protection) and more specifically the ICT (image contraint token) flag. With this flag on, it specifies to the player that if a HDCP (i.e. HDMI) capable output is detected, full video resolution is available (1920x1080p). If not, then the signal will be downgraded to a 1/4 of the resolution, at 960x540p, which is barely above DVD resolutions, virtually negating the benefits of HD video.
However, this ICT flag only applies to HD video signals (which means games can enjoy full resolution, no problems with component output). Moreover, the consortium of media publishers have agreed to not implement ICT flags in their products until at least 2012, thanks in part to a ruling in Japan that put a ban on the ICT flag until 2011. A pertinent business decision given that a majority of HD sets currently in people's homes don't even possess a HDMI port!
For the those planning on buying a standard pack then, it will mean that their consoles will be fully featured for the practical lifespan of the unit; able to play movies in HD when the move to HDTV is made, if not already.

The other features missing from the standard pack include memory card reader (SD, MS, CF, etc.), which is compensated readily by a USB card reader and more importantly, widely available and very popular USB flash drives, in whatever size or variety they come in. Unfortunately neither premium nor standard pack at this point include a PS1/PS2 memory card reader, although it's reasonable to assume that Sony will release an USB adapter for those intrested in transfering old game saves to their new consoles.

Perhaps the most noticable missing feature on a practical level is the wifi adapter; included on the premium but not on the standard. Even though one could purchase a wifi bridge or some such compensatory device, when the prices are added up, the premium seems like a pretty obvious and logical choice. Throw in cost of wifi router and HDTV with HDMI, and the extra price of the premium relative to those items seem very reasonable. Which it is, given that those are the people that will be taking advantage of that extra functionality.

Final differences between the two packs include 40 gigs of HDD space as well as a glossy sheen on the premium version, both nice to have, but far from necessary (at least in the context of a console, necessary).
With the 2.5" HDD been replacable by any generic 2.5" drive and USB card readers been readily available, the real functional differences between the two packs come down to the finish on the console itself and the availability of the HDMI port. With component output been as capable for 99% of people, the most important difference between the two packs would come down to whether you prefer gloss or matte.

BD vs HDDVD
Even though ICT may be a moot point, there are still many that feel uneasy about buying into Bluray or HDDVDs, recalling the betamax/VHS format wars back in the early 80s as well as the expensive and timely transitioning from VHS to DVDs. Some even bring up the record sized Laser Discs as an example of what lies in stock for both formats.
Despite the superficial similarities of the past and future formats, the details reveal that circumstances are slanted heavily in Bluray's favour. To begin with, as a movie format, Bluray is currently in a much better position, with publisher support from all major hollywood players, while HD-DVDs will only recieve support from 60% of Hollywood companies (meaning not all movies will be available in HDDVDs). In addition to the lacking support from content owners, HDDVDs are inferior technology wise, at least on a physical basis. Featuring less recordable space per layer and less layers, about the only thing going for HD-DVDs on this front is that they can still actually store most full length HD movies. There may be exceptions (like the extended versions of Lord of the Ring movies, clocking in at 3.5 hours), but the larger BD capacity will help reduce the number of those.
Initial prototypes for the Bluray disc featured a plastic caddy to protect the disc from read errors due to small scratches. Due to the higher data density, scratches much finer then those needed to corrupt a normal DVD would've rendered BDs unreadable. The obvious disadvantage to the caddy implementation is in the lack of backwards compatibility with previous media (physical incompatibility), as well as increased manufacturing costs). However, Bluray board member TDK have managed to develop scratch resistant disc coatings (durabis coatings), which are able to make even Bluray discs (without the plastic caddies) much more durable then any disc technology before it. Reportedly, the newer durabis technology is able to resist scratches from steel wool rubbing against the disc.
HD-DVD isn't completely without its advantage though; been that of lower manufacturing cost. Due to the way the HD-DVDs are manufactured, they'll simply require a relatively cheap retooling of DVD plants in order to produce HD-DVDs, while Bluray discs require entirely new production lines, increasing manufacturing costs.
However, on the expected scale of production, the issue of manufacturing cost is ultimately a small one, with many publishers/manufacturers choosing to absorb the extra cost premium on BDs then passing them on. Moreover, the cost differences between BDs and HDDVDs are smaller then the typical price fluctuations on DVDs; such that seeing the same movie in different formats with a noticably consistent price difference is an improbability.

As if HD-DVDs weren't in a bad enough place already, the final card up the Bluray consortium's proverbial sleeve is indeed the Playstation 3 itself. Acting as a trojan horse of sorts, introducing millions of BD capable players into people's homes, while HD-DVDs have no such similar counter (despite a cheaper $500 launch unit from Toshiba; truth is, most people won't be intrested until both formats begin to ramp up in earnest; and prices for stand alone units are in the sub $300 range. The advantage of the PS3 then is that it's also a console as well as a bluray player!)

Recently, both HDDVD and Bluray movies have both been released; and detractors would be quick to point out the launch unit (Samsung's launch BD player) as well as the launch titles are infact inferior to HDDVD titles (which at this point have been out for a couple months longer than Blurays). But it would be premature, short sighted and generally devisive to point to these launch titles and say that you can expect no better from Bluray disc, given that the tech has more than over a decade to mature to the point of DVDs. Indeed DVDs themselves sported similar quality issues early in its release.

The strength of the PS3 as a Bluray player has also been called into question; with the oft cited reasoning been that; why would other bluray partners let Sony release a unit that does so much more including better Bluray disc, for what will probably be less then what their units will cost? It's a ludicrous and impossible business decision they'll say! Some will also cite the PS2's inferior DVD playback functionality and say the PS3 will sport similar problems.
Whatever the case maybe; it's worth noting that the PS3 (at least the premium pack (those with the standard pack can still enjoy 720P HD movies... which is about absolutely fine for 98%+ of current HD owners)) has all the required components for excellent Bluray playback functionality. Also any software issues can be dealt with and resolved; as the PS3 will be something that is updated frequently by Sony, to include new features (and of course sort out any problems with the console). Probably the biggest drawback with the PS3 as a bluray player, is that it doesn't include a remote control out of the box. Of course it'll have the IR port, so that you can buy a remote; or possibly use the PS2's DVD remote. Universal remote users like the harmony will also most probably find their controllers working with the PS3. Whether or not then, Sony makes it a great Bluray player is primarily up for speculation right now; but again, all the pieces are in place to make it a competent, if not excellent player.


Additional features; linux, USB, etc. PS3 motion control, sound level.

Cliffnotes

Linux;
- Although no official company statement from Sony itself, several higher ups have confirmed, repeatedly, that Linux will come with all PS3s.
- Different from the PS2 linux in that 100% of the PS3 will have it, compared to less than a fraction of a percent.
- Means that there will be plenty of homebrew
- even if the full power of console isn't granted to homebrewers; there'll be enough to allow homebrewers to code plenty of awesome utilities, and even some games.
- coders will be able to package something so that PS3 owners can run the homebrew from the PS3 main OS as well, not just having to boot into the linux side to run.

USB;
- Great open standard. With the direction the PS3 is taking (i.e. a home entertainment computer), it'll allow all types of devices to work with it (from printers to cameras), as long as drivers are written for it (with Linux side, shouldn't be a problem).
- Also will allow the USB flash sticks (and other USB mass storage devices); which are cheap and readily available and very versatile. Means people won't even need standard memory cards; not when they can use a flash thumb drive.
- Also means the standard package will allow with the addition of a USB card reader, reading of various memory card devices.

PS3 motion control;
- Extends the functionality of the controller; like the analog sticks, they'll increase the range of ways the player can interact.
- Because it doesn't reinvent controller; all the game styles that we're familiar with will still play as well, and with motion control, will even add something extra to them.

Sound level;
Quiet unit (as loud as the PSTwo). Good for the HT setup, but just pleasant in general.


HDTV and PS3s
- PS3 exemplifies many facets of the higher resolution that HDTV affords.
- All functions are HD compatible.
- As HDTV adoption rate grows, more and more people will find the functionalities the PS3 offers desirable.
- PS3 is nearly all encompassing for all facets of HD entertainment (with a USB HDTV tuner and or cable card reader, it would be all facets).
- HDTV rate of growth growing every year; PS3 well placed to take advantage of this.


Conclusions; VCRs > DVDs > PS3s
VCRs; you get tapes with low quality playback; difficult to rewind/fast forward.
DVDs; you get discs with higher quality playback; easy to jump to point, includes many new features, such as different audio soundtracks.
PS3s; you get highest quality playback; wealth of other features in addition to just watching movies and playing games.

 

[DCharlie]

PS3s; you get highest quality playback; wealth of other features in addition to just watching movies and playing games.

what are the other features?

Sound level;
Quiet unit (as loud as the PSTwo).

"The data on the Mig is inaccurate"

 

[Zaptruder]

what are the other features?



"The data on the Mig is inaccurate"

internet browser, voice/video chat, linux operating system; whatever else that comes from the homebrew.

I'm impressed anyone bothered to read that though I wrote it because I was bored at work, and I posted it because... well I wrote it!

 

[Fafalada]

Aside from 1080p FMV cutscenes, what else is an advantage?

The major one is that it makes development - easier.

It's exactly the same situation as DVD vs whatever proprietary 1GB discs two other consoles used.
You could fit every PS2/XBX game to those smaller discs if you cut back on audio and movie quality enough, but we didn't need to, because we had that space available.

(Yes yes, I Know that in this world, ease of development is only ever an advantage when MS flaunts it, Sony is not allowed positive commentary in that area).

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

The major one is that it makes development - easier.

It's exactly the same situation as DVD vs whatever proprietary 1GB discs two other consoles used.

You could fit every PS2/XBX game to those smaller discs if you cut back on audio and movie quality enough, but we didn't need to, because we had that space available.

(Yes yes, I Know that in this world, ease of development is only ever an advantage when MS flaunts it, Sony is not allowed positive commentary in that area).

A single area where ease of development is slightly better on the PS3. Sony deserves a cookie.

 

[Christopher]

I will summarize all the forthcoming responses:

- $600
- Motion blur
- Jaggies
- Wii360
- Lack of rumble

- poor/cheap people
- visually impared
- haters
- gimmick lovers
- gossip queens.

translation.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

- gimmick lovers


translation.

Yeah, Sony isn't about gimmicks at all with their ghetto Nintendo wannabe controller, Eye Toy card games, and PSP rear view mirrors.

 

[meltpotato]

- poor/cheap people
- visually impared
- haters
- gimmick lovers
- gossip queens.

translation.

say hi to Peter Pan in Neverland for me! :lol

 

[Father_Brain]

Christ, reading that made my head hurt. Whoever wrote that has no idea how to use a comma.

 

[HokieJoe]

woah... i'm nominating this for Junior Member post of the month.

Ehhyep. EFF, 'teh one-console future'. I want competition dammit. It makes all of the competitors better, and consumers are the benefactors.

 

[quetz67]

15million psp's sold? maybe shipped...

I meant in april 2006 (Japan 1 1/2 years, US 1 year, Europe 1/2 year, average of a bout 1 year. At that time 17M were shipped, my wild guess was it would be somewhere around 15M sold.

btw. only 3 pages yet, I am pretty disappointed.

 

[meltpotato]

Ehhyep. EFF, 'teh one-console future'. I want competition dammit. It makes all of the competitors better, and consumers are the benefactors.

seriously... and with all of them pushing different agendas (although ms and sony are argueably close) that means even more diversity. hell, the Wii by nullifying lots of porting options, pretty much guarantees more games this gen.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm amazed that more people aren't sick of this shit by now.

 

[Count Chocula]

Here's an article I wrote but never got around to finishing. I summarized the points I was going to use for the latter parts.

Puff piece. You need more skepticism PS3 isn't worth $500 remember?

 

[Mrbob]

Here's an article I wrote but never got around to finishing. I summarized the points I was going to use for the latter parts.

Wow, what a mouthful. I think you need a promotion.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Okay, wikipedia now needs to link "damage control" to that counterpoint argument. Wowzers. :lol

 

[jett]

Jesus****ingchrist.

There should be an official PS3 DOOM & GLOOM thread stickied.

 

[Speevy]

If this forum has somehow convinced anyone that the PS3 isn't worth getting for whatever reason, that person needs to get out more often. If on the other hand you somehow believe that those finding $500 or $600 gaming products extremely expensive are "cheap" or "poor", you need to reexamine your own values and beliefs.

 

[Count Chocula]

I think $500/$600 is definitely expensive. But that's sort of why they gave people 6 months notice to save up.

 

[Speevy]

I think $500/$600 is definitely expensive. But that's sort of why they gave people 6 months notice to save up.

SONY IS MOST GRACIOUS FOR ALLOWING TIME TO SAVE MONEY MUST SAVE MONEY

Seriously dude, that was creepy. You can save for anything. A car. A house. A child's college tuition. It's expensive. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

[Count Chocula]

I would have to say that any gamer who can't at least come close to saving $500 in 6 months probablyneeds some financial counseling.

 

[meltpotato]

I would have to say that any gamer who can't at least come close to saving $500 in 6 months probablyneeds some financial counseling.

its not about having the money.. its about justifying that cost for a gaming console. if you hate the price arguments you probably should stop point at the fire

 

[Speevy]

I would have to say that any gamer who can't at least come close to saving $500 in 6 months probablyneeds some financial counseling.

So let me get shit straight. Any person who plays video games (which includes I dunno, hundreds of millions of people) and can't save about 500 bucks needs financial counseling. Hmm. I guess that $20K+ I owe in student loans will have to wait. I have some games to buy!

 

[SolidSnakex]

its not about having the money.. its about justifying that cost for a gaming console. if you hate the price arguments you probably should stop point at the fire

Price arguments are fine, I just find it funny that 400 has been the cut off point for when a console has become near endlessly complain level expensive. It reminds me of the recent poster who made the claim that games don't become "too expensive" to produce until the exceed 7.05 gigs, which just happens to be the size limit for 360 discs.

 

[Speevy]

Price arguments are fine, I just find it funny that 400 has been the cut off point for when a console has become near endlessly complain level expensive. It reminds me of the recent poster who made the claim that games don't become "too expensive" to produce until the exceed 7.05 gigs, which just happens to be the size limit for 360 discs.

It's not a cutoff point. That's expensive too. You're paying $400 for some stuff that should come free in a cheaper SKU, because they need to justify the existence of one that doesn't do anything.

 

[DCharlie]

Price arguments are fine, I just find it funny that 400 has been the cut off point for when a console has become near endlessly complain level expensive. It reminds me of the recent poster who made the claim that games don't become "too expensive" to produce until the exceed 7.05 gigs, which just happens to be the size limit for 360 discs.

hey, it's all about the game play remember - there's no need to make these expensive 25gig games anymore!

joking aside, there's stupid arguments on both sides like :
"Well, it's only $100 more!"
"People who own HDTVs have more than enough cash to afford PS3"
etc.etc.

PS3 will do just fine - it's just going to take longer for it to hit its stride.

 

[meltpotato]

Price arguments are fine, I just find it funny that 400 has been the cut off point for when a console has become near endlessly complain level expensive. It reminds me of the recent poster who made the claim that games don't become "too expensive" to produce until the exceed 7.05 gigs, which just happens to be the size limit for 360 discs.

yeh thats pretty much bullshit. (the 7 gigs thing) I think everyone has an acceptable price range and, by way of reason, more people fall into the 400$ is okay range than the 500$ is okay... same for 300$ and 600$... my price point for a console is not 400$ and i do not own a 360. i'd say im willing to go for 350$ on a console and thats it. i could afford to throw down 1000$ today for a ps3 and 360 but it doesnt mean i am going to.

that said, im just as fed up as anyone with "lolz thats a 600$ game"

 

[SolidSnakex]

yeh thats pretty much bullshit. (the 7 gigs thing) I think everyone has an acceptable price range and, by way of reason, more people fall into the 400$ is okay range than the 500$ is okay...

I can see that, but then you've still got people yelling "600 600 600" over and over, which if nothing else shows you what their agenda is.

 

[DCharlie]

I can see that, but then you've still got people yelling "600 600 600" over and over, which if nothing else shows you what their agenda is

you know what - there's been plenty of bleating about other gaming platforms / XBL pricing / machine performance / how crap the DS is (was?) ... the big surprise here and why this is taking on momentum is because this is the first sign of a mistake sony have _ever_ made.

the reaction of people trying desperately to defend absolutely every aspect of the PS3/Sony is what isn't helping this go away either.

the more you fight, the more people are going to troll the platform - if TGS is a resounding success, it'll be revenge time for Sony fans - if it's another poor show, things around here are going to be even more horrible for you all.

Yes, It IS boring, but it really isn't going to go away in a hurry.

 

[meltpotato]

I can see that, but then you've still got people yelling "600 600 600" over and over, which if nothing else shows you what their agenda is.

600$ is more than i spent on all three of my current gen consoles combined. you gotta understand that people are legitimately upset by that. doesnt give a license to post 600$ every ****ing post, but i think its a legitimate concern when analyzing the PS3 offering.

for example im very upset about the pricing, but i dont have some kind of agenda.

 

[SolidSnakex]

for example im very upset about the pricing, but i dont have some kind of agenda.

Yah but I also don't see you randomly saying 600 over and over as some do whenever the PS3 is discussed. There's very much an agenda behind the people that do that.

 

[Count Chocula]

I dont find the price to be an issue. I've decided to get the $500 model. If I can guarantee a $500 model at launch without having to wait in line somewhere I consider than a good deal.

I want a next gen console so It's either that or a $400 Xbox 360 which isn't exactly much better.

That's the way I look at things. Expensive? yes. 6 months to come up with the cash? do-able.

 

[meltpotato]

Yah but I also don't see you randomly saying 600 over and over as some do whenever the PS3 is discussed. There's very much an agenda behind the people that do that.

point taken. i just get a bit irritated when people start shooting out that "youre poor/cheap" BS or downplay the factor that the PS3 is in a unique position at that pricepoint.

as a fan of lots of games on that will likely be on PS3 i'm a little worried about what the pricepoint is going to mean to those series. and that is a concenr that really isnt taken serious .

 

[Zaptruder]

600$ is more than i spent on all three of my current gen consoles combined. you gotta understand that people are legitimately upset by that. doesnt give a license to post 600$ every ****ing post, but i think its a legitimate concern when analyzing the PS3 offering.

for example im very upset about the pricing, but i dont have some kind of agenda.

If it's more then what you've paid for your current gen consoles, then you probably didn't buy any on launch.

In which case, you probably don't mind waiting until the price is at a more satisfactory level.

Which means your bitching about the $600 launch price is really probably just a divisive, cowardly and syncophantic argument to further your agenda, despite claiming not to have one. You even constantly harp on about the $600 version, in order to emphasize price differences, despite the $500 version probably been more than suitable for your needs. (If not, then the X360 would be in a similar position, where you'll need periphials to 'upgrade' it to meet your needs, or simply can't upgrade it (HDMI)).

 

[SolidSnakex]

point taken. i just get a bit irritated when people start shooting out that "youre poor/cheap" BS or downplay the factor that the PS3 is in a unique position at that pricepoint.

I don't think its a too cheap issue as I can understand people who just don't want to pay that price for a system. There's not a big deal. But I think there are people who're honestly upset with the price and then those who didn't care about the system before and are nore just ranting about the price like its somehow holding them back. Because i've never heard of a "would you pay several hundred dollars for this 1 mediocre looking game" pop up when discussing any system before. It's just so damn strange.

 

[Speevy]

And no one's saying you shouldn't spend your money on your PS3. For everyone else, it's a case-by-case basis.

I firmly believe that real gamers make a solid attempt to play everything they can. Does this even require money? Not really. I played some really fun PS2 games at my friend's house for years before I had a PS2. As a matter of fact, one of our favorite games was Red Faction.

Looking at this in hindsight, the original Xbox was already HALF what the current Xbox premium cost now at this point in time (July 2002, $200). Same with the PS2 I believe, which had dropped from its original October 2000 price.

So what MS is obviously doing here is waiting for the very second in 07 that Sony drops the PS3 price, then following right behind them. So we'll have a $400 Core PS3, $300 Premium 360, and whatever Nintendo is charging for their machine.

 

[meltpotato]

If it's more then what you've paid for your current gen consoles, then you probably didn't buy any on launch.

In which case, you probably don't mind waiting until the price is at a more satisfactory level.

Which means your bitching about the $600 is really probably just a divisive, cowardly and syncophantic argument to further your agenda, despite claiming not to have one.

bought PS2 at launch (299), DC at 99 if i remember correctly, and GC at something like 125$. and that was over a few years time. I will end up waiting for a reasonable price. I didnt buy cube until it had zelda and i will likely not buy PS3 until it has MGS4 unless another must-have title pops up for me.

if i have an agenda, then it is that im worried about Sony turning away a growing market for games.

 

[Zaptruder]

Wow, what a mouthful. I think you need a promotion.

I'd like to be captain. There seems to be a vacancy for it!

 

[Speevy]

If it's more then what you've paid for your current gen consoles, then you probably didn't buy any on launch.

Well, it would have been $800 to buy all three of them at launch vs. (probably) $1100-1200 to buy them at this upcoming launch.