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[Steve Youngblood]

You know what bothers me about these threads? How unnecessarily heated things can get. The stakes aren't high, here. The value of what we're talking about is insanely subjective, and everyone can and should draw their own line. Think spending $20 on the unlock is fair? Great, do it. Think the content is easy enough to grind out through normal gameplay to the point where the existence of such DLC doesn't bother you? Great. Think the content is superfluous and don't care about it at all whether you have to pay for it or it comes unlocked out of the box? Great. Do you find the business practice so unsavory that it precludes interest in buying the base product at all? Great, don't buy it.

But invariably, it feels like a line is arbitrarily drawn in the sand and you have to choose! The rhetoric becomes ridiculously charged and we end up going around in circles making comparisons to other situations that don't quite work. Mind you, I have no problem with the mere existence of a discussion. But I just see no reason for things to get heated. It's your money. Spend (or save) it however you want.

 

[Xenthar]

people talking about misconception and defending this bs. its not about this crap being optional, its about this being practiced and becoming a norm in todays industry, which is not good.

Buying the game does'nt mean you encourage and support this MT bullshit

People not buying the game or waiting for 20$ komplete edition because of the MT or krypt unlock bullshit is stupid. The game isnt pulling a gun to your heads to pay for extra pointless stuff

The Goro preorder dlc is kind of unfair since its on the disc that people paid after launch. Its definitely a gift for preordering but it should have been first print edition too at least since people pay full price to support the dev

Even without goro the game is totally worth the full price. But people should NOT support this scam and NOT buy the Goro DLC and instead tweet NRS or WB or something so this on-disc scam doesnt happen again.

 

[Easy_D]

When it comes to things like ads and virtual item/progression/unlock-based-DLC that slope is pretty damn lubricated.


This is always the response. Bring things up early and people say you're jumping to conclusions and wait until it gets worse, which it does, and then you're told you should've made a bigger fuss from the get-go. Every time.

How does the lube stay on a 90 degree slope?

 

[Krejlooc]

You know what bothers me about these threads? How unnecessarily heated things can get. The stakes aren't high, here. The value of what we're talking about is insanely subjective, and everyone can and should draw their own line. Think spending $20 on the unlock is fair? Great, do it. Think the content is easy enough to grind out through normal gameplay to the point where the existence of such DLC doesn't bother you? Great. Think the content is superfluous and don't care about it at all whether you have to pay for it or it comes unlocked out of the box? Great. Do you find the business practice so unsavory that it precludes interest in buying the base product at all? Great, don't buy it.

But invariably, it feels like a line is arbitrarily drawn in the sand and you have to choose! The rhetoric becomes ridiculously charged and we end up going around in circles making comparisons to other situations that don't quite work. Mind you, I have no problem with the mere existence of a discussion. But I just see no reason for things to get heated. It's your money. Spend (or save) it however you want.

What I take offense to is the finger wagging those who dont lile this practice take as though I am a rube ushering in the destruction of gaming. Particularly from those who are repeating stuff that isnt really true.

I dont even buy this stuff, I am unlocking shit in the krypt by actually playing.

 

[Klossen]

Congrats on crawling out of under your rock. It's not aimed at anyone here on GAF. They aren't trying to rob you, they have given you more than enough to get what you want without spending an extra dime. It's been the norm for years now, should have thrown a fit back then when instead of now against good examples of DLC and microtransactions being used. There is literally no harm in this, it isn't aimed towards you.

Wait wait wait, is this an example of good DLC and microtransactions? Is having Goro as pre-order DLC example of good DLC? Then your standards must be incredibly low for what is good DLC. Is paying your way to easy fatalities example of good microtransactions? What more does it accomplish but to create an atmosphere of discouraging people to actually learn and play the games they're playing? Paying your way to success is lazy, spoilt, unequal and establishes poor player habits. If you want full-fledged games to be like mobile crap where everything can be bought to victory, then feel free to think so. But don't go around assuming people won't disagree with you on that.

 

[Occam]

Congrats on crawling out of under your rock. It's not aimed at anyone here on GAF. They aren't trying to rob you, they have given you more than enough to get what you want without spending an extra dime. It's been the norm for years now, should have thrown a fit back then when instead of now against good examples of DLC and microtransactions being used. There is literally no harm in this, it isn't aimed towards you.

That's a terrible attitude. Just because something wrong has been going on for a long time, you are supposed to accept it and shut up? I don't think so. (Besides, it hasn't been a long time.)
"Micro"-transactions (especially in full-price console games) are shameful. Obviously the in-game economy of such games is designed in a way that encourages consumers to make use of them.

 

[The Lamonster]

Is this PC only? I don't see any add-on content in the Playstation store...

 

[Steve Youngblood]

What I take offense to is the finger wagging those who dont lile this practice take as though I am a rube ushering in the destruction of gaming. Particularly from those who are repeating stuff that isnt really true.

I dont even buy this stuff, I am unlocking shit in the krypt by actually playing.

To be clear, my post wasn't meant to call out or defend any one specific side.

 

[vg260]

Where I used to look at progression systems and XP as a positive for some games, I'm now completely wary of their appearance in anything because of how much they're used as the catalyst for accelerator pack/virtual currency DLC and how much community behavior is driven by which events provide the highest rewards.

Don't waste my time and then sell it back to me as a convenience.

Absolutely.

I never seen a person complain about getting unlocks too fast. "oh no, I have so many points and these great things i would like access to are now available to me. I wish they had made it harder to get to it!"

that's never been uttered, ever.

Well there were people upset when the MvC2 remake came out that the in-game store was removed and everything was unlocked from the start rather than having to grind to unlock all the characters and colors. I thought the complaint was insane.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

What I take offense to is the finger wagging those who dont lile this practice take as though I am a rube ushering in the destruction of gaming. Particularly from those who are repeating stuff that isnt really true.

I dont even buy this stuff, I am unlocking shit in the krypt by actually playing.

Maybe you shouldn't get so worked up over hyperbolic speech from strangers on GAF but that's just my opinion. Spend YOUR money how you want and ignore the vocal minority who wants to shame you into doing things their way.

 

[Krejlooc]

To be clear, my post wasn't meant to call out or defend any one specific side.

no I understood my post was merely an explanation as to why my comments might have come out the way they did

 

[NullPointer]

How does the lube stay on a 90 degree slope?

 

[Krejlooc]

Maybe you shouldn't get so worked up over hyperbolic speech from strangers on GAF but that's just my opinion. Spend YOUR money how you want and ignore the vocal minority who wants to shame you into doing things their way.

my last two years in the industry has taught me more than anyone will realize that speaking on forms actually does matter. you would be surprised how much this stuff falls on the right ears. this will definitely falls into the realm of agenda setting and opinion setting. some games can never overcome a negative stigma.

 

[Magwik]

Wait wait wait, is this an example of good DLC and microtransactions? Is having Goro as pre-order DLC example of good DLC? Then your standards must be incredibly low for what is good DLC. Is paying your way to easy fatalities example of good microtransactions? What more does it accomplish but to create an atmosphere of discouraging people to actually learn and play the games they're playing? Paying your way to success is lazy, spoilt, unequal and establishes poor player habits. If you want full-fledged games to be like mobile crap where everything can be bought to victory, then feel free to think so. But don't go around assuming people won't disagree with you on that.

The goro thing is stupid, yeah. I never said it was good. But how is this paying your way to success exactly? Someone buying an easy fatality from PSN or from the Krypt doesn't change anything for you in the game. Lazy, spoiled, unequal, and establishing poor player habits? Why not take up an issue with the game balance then? Surely characters that are purely range based affect the game for you more than what comes down to the equivalent of a cosmetic item? Nobody is buying to victory. You're getting upset over literally the most minimal of things.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Hopefully this helps people understand that microtransactions don't exist in a vacuum.

Game design is adjusted to accommodate it, and that's the annoying part, even if theoretically "everything is unlockable in-game".

It's always true, and always obvious, but if you say this about dlc, microtransactions or any new monetisation or skinnerbox model BEFORE these bad things happen then you will just get called a 'hater' or 'too cynical' and get a bunch of mad replies for harshing people's PR induced hype buzz.

People won't learn.

 

[Occam]

my last two years in the industry has taught me more than anyone will realize that speaking on forms actually does matter. you would be surprised how much this stuff falls on the right ears. this will definitely falls into the realm of agenda setting and opinion setting.

Excellent, all the more reason to speak up against shit practices, which certainly includes having "micro"-transactions creep into more and more games.

 

[Klossen]

The goro thing is stupid, yeah. I never said it was good.

But you just said that MKX was an example of good DLC and microtransactions. Since Goro is DLC, doesn't that imply that you think Goro is good DLC?

 

[RM8]

It's always true, and always obvious, but if you say this about dlc, microtransactions or any new monetisation or skinnerbox model BEFORE these bad things happen then you will just get called a 'hater' or 'too cynical' and get a bunch of mad replies for harshing people's PR induced hype buzz.

People won't learn.

I agree. I'll never buy that "grind less pack", but come on, no one would buy it if it wasn't somewhat of a chore to unlock everything. I think it's naive pretending these huge companies don't tweak their games to make their micro-transactions actually appealing, they're put in the game to make money.

 

[Krejlooc]

It's always true, and always obvious, but if you say this about dlc, microtransactions or any new monetisation or skinnerbox model BEFORE these bad things happen then you will just get called a 'hater' or 'too cynical' and get a bunch of mad replies for harshing people's PR induced hype buzz.

People won't learn.

Because at this point it's like walking up to people smoking and telling them it causes cancer. The intricacies of dlc are well understood at this point, its no secret.

Calling someone "part of the problem" accomplishes nothing but making people upset.

 

[Krejlooc]

Excellent, all the more reason to speak up against shit practices, which certainly includes having "micro"-transactions creep into more and more games.

I knew someone would misinterpret what I wrote. The people who make decisions about dlc are not listening. You're railing against people who already know what you are saying. It's just aggravating.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Because at this point it's like walking up to people smoking and telling them it causes cancer. The intricacies of dlc are well understood at this point, its no secret.

Calling someone "part of the problem" accomplishes nothing but making people upset.

Yeah, I can understand that. Despite whatever principles I might have in terms of how I spend my money, other customers aren't obliged to share those principles.

 

[Occam]

It's always true, and always obvious, but if you say this about dlc, microtransactions or any new monetisation or skinnerbox model BEFORE these bad things happen then you will just get called a 'hater' or 'too cynical' and get a bunch of mad replies for harshing people's PR induced hype buzz.

People won't learn.

Few are capable of looking ahead and at the big picture, while many have tunnel vision.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Things like this can tell you a lot about a game's quality.

 

[Lashley]

Yeah, really disappointing what MK has done with the DLC. Gives me something to do I guess, but very, very shady.

Also, FUCK those jump scares. Wish I could turn them off.

 

[Magwik]

Things like this can tell you a lot about a game's quality.

But it actually doesn't

 

[RM8]

In the end, I only care about costumes. Every single koin I earn is going towards costumes (and you can unlock them via the classic tower anyway, right?). Also I'm not going to lie, I hope modders make koins super easy to get

 

[EatMyFace]

I guess you can't sell your game in a week or two now? EVIL!

The Microtransactions are optional.

Things like this can tell you a lot about a game's quality.

MKX by far has one of the best story modes in the fighting genre. It puts games like Street Fighter to shame which don't even have a story mode.

 

[NullPointer]

The intricacies of dlc are well understood at this point, its no secret.

I really don't think this is the case. We don't know how much DLC like this directly affects the progression curves in these games, nor do we know for sure when content gets cut from initial development to be held back for DLC down the line. We don't even know how much revenue these accelerator packs bring.

You can make some common sense assumptions though, and in these threads you'll find people making assumptions on all points on the spectrum.

 

[EatMyFace]

Glad i never bought it, and thanks too gaf telling me these things i never will.

Your loss.
Do you always let other people make decisions for you?

If you don't like micro transactions then don't buy them.....its really that simple. You can Platinum the game without spending a single extra penny.(correct me if I'm wrong here)

 

[Krejlooc]

I really don't think this is the case.

the practice is so well understood, an entire episode of southpark was made about it. These are not blood secrets that only a few enlightened understand.

 

[ship it]

my last two years in the industry has taught me more than anyone will realize that speaking on forms actually does matter. you would be surprised how much this stuff falls on the right ears. this will definitely falls into the realm of agenda setting and opinion setting. some games can never overcome a negative stigma.

my experience tells me quite the opposite. couch soapboxing just draws laughing and pointing.

Things like this can tell you a lot about a game's quality.

now we are entering the twilight zone. its a fighting game, the GAMEPLAY tells you about the quality.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Here's my own arbitrary line: I feel like regardless of the shenanigans about tweaking the progression of coins to unlock things, this is ultimately content I'm not terribly concerned with. A pay-to-unlock option doesn't really bother me even if I'd ultimately prefer the good ol' days of yesteryear where a free cheat code would accomplish that. But this is the age that we live in. The era of "you pay money for a disc and that's the whole game" has long since ended.

What would concern me would be character upgrades, particularly if they worked online. Like if special moves or a larger health bar or increased damage were offered optionally behind a paywall, I'd consider that highly egregious and would probably refuse to buy the game. But character costumes, concept art, and fatalities? Meh.

 

[QuantumZebra]

But it actually doesn't

Spoiler

this game is fucking great and I <3 the fighting style changeups

 

[Krejlooc]

my experience tells me quite the opposite. couch soapboxing just draws laughing and pointing.

Yes, that happens. But that just becomes yet another example of how people actually do read this stuff.

As another extreme, I've seen entire careers get off the ground simply by networking on forums.

But, as I was speaking about agenda setting, I meant more a "will of many" attitude as opposed to "one single grand-stander."

 

[hipsterpants]

Wasn't the patch decreasing the Koin rate proven to be false on another thread here?

These threads wouldn't bother me if people actually took time to research the things they are complaining about...

 

[oneida]

Wasn't the patch decreasing the Koin rate proven to be false on another thread here?

yup

 

[ship it]

Wasn't the patch decreasing the Koin rate proven to be false on another thread here?

These threads wouldn't bother me if people actually took time to research the things they are complaining about...

yup this is just more nonsense

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

I earned over 10k this morning in about a half hour of playtime before work, it doesn't take long to unlock things. It seems to me a lot of you were expecting to be able to unlock everything almost immediately. A flawless victory in story mode netted me a little over 2k for one match, lots of hyperbole being thrown around.

yup

Aw man, I wasn't there to see that. Seems this was all for nothing then.

 

[Krejlooc]

Here's my own arbitrary line: I feel like regardless of the shenanigans about tweaking the progression of coins to unlock things, this is ultimately content I'm not terribly concerned with. A pay-to-unlock option doesn't really bother me even if I'd ultimately prefer the good ol' days of yesteryear where a free cheat code would accomplish that. But this is the age that we live in. The era of "you pay money for a disc and that's the whole game" has long since ended.

What would concern me would be character upgrades, particularly if they worked online. Like if special moves or a larger health bar or increased damage were offered optionally behind a paywall, I'd consider that highly egregious and would probably refuse to buy the game. But character costumes, concept art, and fatalities? Meh.

This is generally where my line falls as well. My example of the best DLC around, IMO, was the way rockband handled their DLC. Through their DLC practices, the games themselves became platforms for content distribution, which I liked. I never had to upgrade to Rockband 3 if I didn't want to... but I did, because I felt the changes to the core game were worthy. But even if I didn't, the content was divorced from the actual version of the game I was playing.

It was perfect, IMO.

Not really sure how that could apply to, say, a fighting game. But regardless, I don't see MKX as something disgusting. Quite the opposite, in fact - I like that I can get virtually everything without paying more.

A defense for the ability to unlock stuff with a quick buck? Sonic Adventure 2 - green hill zone. As a teenager, I unlocked it on the Dreamcast version and had a blast. But as an adult, when I bought the HD Remake? Hell no, I wish they would offer it to me as a $1 unlockable. I like the actual level quite a bit, and it made a good reward for actually gaining every emblem (something SA1 really lacked, which made the end-game a bit stale), but I simply don't have the time to do that anymore. There have been countless games with cool unlockables at the end that I would love to get to, but I realistically never will be able to. I simply don't have time anymore.

I made time for MKX, and will continue to do so. But I like the option of being able to skip that stuff, too.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Wasn't the patch decreasing the Koin rate proven to be false on another thread here?

These threads wouldn't bother me if people actually took time to research the things they are complaining about...

I don't necessarily disagree, but keep in mind that I think some people aren't necessarily talking specifically about that kind of a tweak to the settings, but rallying against the mere existence of an "unlock everything" DLC option in a full retail product. I've already stated that I'm not really bothered either way since the content we're talking about isn't that important to me. But for some, it's just irksome that the incentive to get people to spend $20 on this stuff obviously must have some impact on the design.

 

[Easy_D]

Even fucking Guitar Hero 3, an ACTIVISION game, had a cheat to unlock all the songs. Paid cheats are so dumb.

 

[hesido]

People, please don't bring up TLoU as a good example without bad micro-transactions, because it has bad micro-transaction practices. It has balance altering purchase-ables. (Some / all(?) of which are present in preset loadouts but the ones is unable to mix them up in a load out without paying) That is balance changing right there.

Some will claim they are ruling matches without having paid but that's not the point

 

[Yagharek]

What a skam.