For a very long time when? 1940 through 1970? I think it's time to get over our prejudices.
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Cronenberg on TDKR: Batman running around in a stupid cape, for kids
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For a very long time when? 1940 through 1970? I think it's time to get over our prejudices.
evilromero
Member
I would argue that comics have a history with adolescent storylines. I won't disagree that the medium offers stories for young adults but I still see his viewpoint on this. The movie was washed with way too much critical praise where no praise was due. They are good films. Are they great? I don't believe these last two could be considered great. Are they art? I can see why he is critical with this stance. It is melodramatic yes, but most certainly not high art. I don't think anyone should argue it is.
You also spread your work out over your career, so you don't get burnt out.
We are talking about a quote from a man who grew up in that very timeframe. Also i really dont think he gives a shit if comics have moved on from the days when he read them. Thats what he remembers.
Ha ha ha, Cronenberg is hardly a geriatric. He reads more than you could possibly imagine and probably watches hundreds of films a year, including comic book films. He's acted in such powerhouse movies as The Stupids and Jason X. And beyond all that, he's a smart and creative person with very few prejudices. The reason his comment is stupid is because it does not say anything about his character.
Arguments about what constitutes 'art' always devolves into faux-intellectual wankery, so I think it best be avoided most of the time. Especially when it involves people going back and forth about the value of one thing over another.
Cronenberg can have whatever opinion he likes, and all the power to those who agree with him, but I think he started sounding like a prick the moment he made an argument about "high art".
Cronenberg can have whatever opinion he likes, and all the power to those who agree with him, but I think he started sounding like a prick the moment he made an argument about "high art".
evilromero
Member
You forgot the /sarcasm script.
hes was born in 43.
I think it speaks directly to his character as a film maker. He's an auteur. He doesnt make hollywood movies. So, yes i think his quote is directly in line with his views on most hollywood movies.
I think he watches them, like me, but doesn't lend any credence to their value as perceived art.
They are merely popcorn flicks designed to make money.
If you read the full quote he talks about how he's impressed by the scale, the IMAX shooting, etc. He just doesn't think it adds up to much.
Most of this bullshit story stems from taking bits of his quote out of context and ignoring the fact that he was specifically being asked about directing a big studio superhero movie. There really isn't much to be bothered about.
People really don't need to circle the wagons every time someone says they don't like Nolan's Batman. That's totally adolescent behavior
Please. Money makes you good? I would bet most actors would rather work with Croneberg than Nolan.
And one man doesnt manage a 250M picture. Its a team of thousands. Michael Bay must be the best of all time, cause most of his movies are up that high.
Nolan did his best work when he had full creative control. Not when suits became involved.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
nolan hasn't made a good film yet, cronenberg is now also an idiot
what am i doing here
what am i doing here
back out slowly.
It sure is marketed towards kids.
polyh3dron
Banned
dude, you just cast r-pats in your latest flick to cash in on his twihard fanbase, get off your high horse for fuck's sake
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
In what way? I really wouldn`t think so.
Or he was the best one that auditioned. Or he saw something in him that was right for the role.
I'm sure a Rated R film is directly aimed at twihards. You get off your high horse for fuck sake.
If you paid any attention to what has been said about the movie, you would know that he is trying to shed that audience, by doing more mature, thoughtful movies.
I'm well aware of when he was born, but my point stands. He is not your typical geriatric. And no, he doesn't make Hollywood movies -- he lives in Toronto. He makes Canadian movies. I'm not sure what you mean by "Hollywood" anyway, because several of his most recent movies starred Hollywood actors and had actual budgets.
And yet none of that has anything to do with his perception of comic books as a medium.
The toys. The happy meals. Shall i go on.
Its a 250mill picture. Its squarely aimed at the 10-18 audience. Like all of them in that budget range.
I would argue that it is equally marketed towards the young adult market (18-24)
Kids are going to see it but its clear the movie has appeal for a very large age demographic. Even my parents want to see it.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
they are art in the sense that art equates to personal expression, and it'd be silly to claim either of those films do not contain that.
high-art would insinuate that there's a higher level of sophistication and meaning in the craft, etc, so i'm confused by how they're being deployed as though they're interchangeable.
Cool, we live in the same city. I didn't know that. Tell me more about my local artists.
"Hollywood". a major studio picture designed to make lots of money. Big budget. Your LoTR, Batman's and Transformer's of the world.
To further complicate things. I have meet him several times. Most of my friends and family work in the industry. And yes, he is quite set in his views on how a film should be perceived. Its why he does the types of movies that he does. He has been offered more money than you could possible imagine to director "Hollywood" films.
Existenz was above 30 mil i believe. His largest budget i think. And he hated it. Thats why he hasn't done a studio picture since.
Well yeah... that's pretty much what I'm saying?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm inclined to disagree with him, only because I too used to think superheroes were tripe, but film of the 2000s were incredibly kind to them and really changed my perspective on them (particularly Nolan Batman, of course).
Also.. Even if it is fluff, the days of only kids enjoying fluff are long over.
Also.. Even if it is fluff, the days of only kids enjoying fluff are long over.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
there wasn't a specific reason i picked your post to reply to, but due to there being no distinction made here for what 'art' actually is it seems quite pointless to discuss without providing one.
Yeah but most stuff is.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Ok. I don`t go to or live anywhere near a McDonalds (or popular North American fast food joints) so I didn`t know about that. I thought you meant in advertisements or commercials.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Ill also add: not to sling mud... But Cronenburg's films could often be boiled down to "genre schlock" in a similar way. They're horror or bizzare fantasy.... (I mean.. Alien parasites? Magic videotapes? Reality bending video games?) But of course he brings some real artistry and emotion to the material. But someone could just as well do that with superheroes as well.
Leeroy3101
Banned
Comics are for kids? I'm sure Bill Watterson, Charles Schultz, and Bill Amend would argue your point.
Are films like Memento and 2001: A Space Odyssey more "artsy" then TDKR? Of course those films are. The aforementioned films are much better as well. But this isn't to a a "comic book film", I hate the stigma behind that title, can't be artsy, mature, or critically acclaimed. Get off your high horse, Cronenberg.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I'm glad he had the balls to say it, because it's true. All the Batman fanboys will cry foul but it's not like Nolan's films are anything special. The Crow (the first one) now that was something dark and special for its day for a comic adaptation.
Once the budget gets that big, you have to aim it kids. They spend the most money at the theater's. I don't mean they literately spend they money(parents money), but that's your target audience.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
True.
But personally I thought Batman was ridiculous as a kid. I came to respect him in my late 20s
Please don't tout your family's relationship with the Cronenbergs to me. You could have dated his daughter for 2 years and I'd still think your opinions (and the one stated in the interview) on comic books are wrong. It has no bearing on the conversation. Nor does continuing to talk about his movies when I'm talking about his opinions of a written medium.
True.
But personally I thought Batman was ridiculous as a kid. I came to respect him in my late 20s
There is nothing wrong with liking comics as an adult but to deny that they have elements marketed to children is kind of stupid.
When I saw TDKR at the theater, there was a total of maybe two kids in the whole audience.
Theater was pretty packed too.
If kids are its main target audience, it's done a pretty crappy job of reaching out to them.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
"Memento" is definitely my favorite Nolan film.
Count Dookkake
Member
To be fair, it's difficult for some to pay attention with all the tears.
cloud_sleep
Member
Superhero movies are essentially for kids / man-childs. They, like Bond films, are adolescent power fantasies featuring heroes with idealised, unrealistic skills and the shiniest toys in the playground. Nothing wrong with that, I enjoy them myself, but they are pretty shallow. They are certainly entertaining, when done well, but ultimately only that. They are a diversion. More interesting art tends, I would argue, to speak to a deeper - dare I say more mature - part of the human psyche than the part that wants to be the best at fighting and impressing the other kids.
Pretty much. All Nolan does is produce quality films. I'd put him just behind QT at the top of their craft. If this Cronenberg character died right now my movie going experience would be unchanged.
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