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Cronenberg on TDKR: Batman running around in a stupid cape, for kids

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G

Gray Man

Banned
Charles Foster Kane said:
He is right. While TDKR is good and entertaining, it`s not art to me. I`ve heard a bunch of people I know say it is one of most artistic films ever and stuff... yet they wouldn`t be caught dead watching something from Buñuel or the like.
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Oh really, what qualifies as art for you? Is it not "Indie" enough for you? Let me guess..... Citizen Kane!
 
W

WillyFive

Member
Comic books haven't been good for kids since like, what, half a century (?). So many covers and panels this past decade have had half-naked characters and graphic scenes of violence. That's probably that's why the comic book industry is falling apart. No new audience entering the market, they are all still trying to appeal to the same comic book fans.
 
C

Charles Foster Kane

Rosebud
Gray Man said:
Oh really, what qualifies as art for you? Is it not "Indie" enough for you?
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Not necessarily. It was just an example. I just dont think TDKR o TDK are art. I don`t want to get into arguments.

Indie doesn`t mean a movie is art either, or the other way around anyways.

You`re just trying to make me sound like a snobby douche with your indie comment.

And yes, I love Citizen Kane and think it is art.
 
T

thabiz

Member
Gray Man said:
I think Memento and The Dark Knight trilogy are very different movies, and for the most part both really well done on my level.

I think "Memento" and "Inception" are a little overrated, but they are still good movies. I think Christopher Nolan has the rare ability to wrap the world and stories he creates with a sense of greatness, larger than you, more grand than you can imagine.

This is really good, because it helps hide, or dull down any plot issues, script, etc.
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Completely different. thats why this thread is kind of pointless. Apples to oranges.

This thread is needed if he said the opposite. That would be shocking coming from a man like Cronenberg.
 
F

FStop7

Banned
He mad


But on the other hand it's hard to argue against someone with that resume. Dude's directed some iconic films.
 
T

Trurl

Banned
Crewnh said:
Just wanted to bring this out because fuck this term
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Sometimes I think that the term "graphic novel" can make sense for work that is published in a certain way. to the best of my knowledge, Craig Thompson's work is published originally large bound volumes, the way a traditional novel would be.

For the most part I avoid the term and simply call western comics, monthly comics, manga, and anything else "comics." If I'm feeling pretentious I might use the term "sequential art."
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Superhero comics are about as adolescent as any mythological pantheon. The characters represent specific archetypes and make certain decisions in accordance to that archetype.
 
S

Stet

Banned
thetrin said:
Superhero comics are about as adolescent as any mythological pantheon. The characters represent specific archetypes and make certain decisions in accordance to that archetype.
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Sure, but the most successful and critically acclaimed superhero comics are the ones that turn those archetypes on their heads.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Stet said:
Sure, but the most successful and critically acclaimed superhero comics are the ones that turn those archetypes on their heads.
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I don't think I'd say Nolan's movies, or TDKR specifically, did that though. They explored the archetypes in some interesting ways but I'm really hard pressed to call anything about them subversive.
 
F

FanTomasas

Banned
While I could agree with this statement about other super hero movies (Avengers, Spider-Man etc), there is no way that applies to new Batman movies.
 
T

thabiz

Member
Stet said:
Sure, but the most successful and critically acclaimed superhero comics are the ones that turn those archetypes on their heads.
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I seem to recall Burton's Batman was critically acclaimed.

We just live in dark, edgy times. To make money you need to pander to the masses. In 10-20 years it will be a different take on superheroes that makes all the money and get all the praise.
 
G

Gray Man

Banned
Charles Foster Kane said:
Not necessarily. It was just an example. I just dont think TDKR o TDK are art. I don`t want to get into arguments.

Indie doesn`t mean a movie is art either, or the other way around anyways.

You`re just trying to make me sound like a snobby douche with your indie comment.
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I don't want to start anything, but I'm very surprised you have the gull and audacity to claim something isn't art.

You may not like TDKR, but you can't say its not art, it can be shitty art in your eyes, it can be great art. Its still art.

You don't get to decide what art is, unless of course I missed the memo.
 
W

WinFonda

Member
Gray Man said:
batmandkr.jpg


Yeah Batman.. for kids!
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Most people discover Batman when they're kids. I'd hazard a guess most of us on GAF discovered Batman through a cartoon that used to air on FOX Kids in the 90s... younger people learn about Batman through newer cartoons... and older generations learned about Batman through the Adam West series in the 50s... so yeah... you can't be as popular a superhero as Batman without first appealing to kids.
 
T

thabiz

Member
Sorcerer said:
Cronenberg made Pattison the star of his movie.

I do not think Cronenburg should be speaking of art.
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How was his performance?

I cant believe Nolan cast Heath Ledger as the Joker. Pffft.

I seem to recall that statement come up a few times.
 
C

Charles Foster Kane

Rosebud
Gray Man said:
I don't want to start anything, but I'm very surprised you have the gull and audacity to claim something isn't art.

You may not like TDKR, but you can't say its not art, it can be shitty art in your eyes, it can be great art. Its still art.

You don't get to decide what art is, unless of course I missed the memo.
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I haven`t. I`m not some sort of authority on that, nor have I implied I am. It`s my opinion, and my opinion is that they`re not art, just like yours may be the opposite.
 
T

thabiz

Member
Charles Foster Kane said:
I haven`t. I`m not some sort of authority on that, nor have I implied I am. It`s my opinion, and my opinion is that they`re not art, just like yours may be the opposite.
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ART

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.

ALL film is art.
 
W

WillyFive

Member
thabiz said:
ART

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.

ALL film is art.
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Yeah.

I never understood why people argue something someone made is not art. On what grounds?
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
Most people are just acknowledging that the Batman trilogy is obviously smarter and more mature than what you'll see from other comic superhero films. This is where it gets most of its credit. No reason to get upset about it.
 
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