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Cross-Platform Smash Bros. coming to 3DS/WiiU, [Has Not Started Development]

The problem with Toad is he hasn't really been his own character since like Mario 2. Or I guess Wario's Woods, but nobody actually played that.

Since then, Toads have been treated more as a generic species. A species that hasn't really been very relevant to much of anything, outside of being the generic good guy NPCs.
 
Daisy's an awesome choice because you get the following from her inclusion:

- More Super Mario Land extended references (maybe a potential Tatanga boss/Sarasaland level?)
- She could be the Luigi to Peach's Mario and play a faster/more athletic game
- Riding off that last idea, she could also be the Smash bros. face for the Mario Sports lines and have moves that come from or are inspired by the numerous different sports franchises.
- Strikers alt costume would be awesome. :lol

Honestly, I'm the type who feels like after seeing how Nintendo made characters like Captain Falcon, G&W, Olimar (to a lesser extent) & R.O.B. work there's no such thing as a poor character choice for the Smash series. I just hope they start really going into the backlog and getting creative while adding reps to the bigger series that have both the history and potential for fun new gameplay.

Edit: In Toad's case, his SMB2 incarnation (emphasizing on being small and fast/picking things/characters up and tossing them or running around with them quickly) and hell even the Wario's Woods stuff (bomb throwing) mixed with some of the new stuff from NSMBWii (the freeze ball & propeller/propeller suit) could make him fun as all hell. At this point though, we've just gotta hope that the new team is as or even more creative than the guys who were in charge of character movesets and the like in the Smash games thus far.
 
KevinCow said:
The problem with Toad is he hasn't really been his own character since like Mario 2. Or I guess Wario's Woods, but nobody actually played that.

Since then, Toads have been treated more as a generic species. A species that hasn't really been very relevant to much of anything, outside of being the generic good guy NPCs.
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That's why I mentioned Galaxy. The Toad Brigade wasn't playable, but they were individual characters with distinct personalities. And I had completely forgotten NSMBWii... That could work for moveset inspiration. I don't think SMB2 is really adequate because Peach already uses the biggest signature attack of that game.
 
KevinCow said:
The problem with Toad is he hasn't really been his own character since like Mario 2. Or I guess Wario's Woods, but nobody actually played that.

Since then, Toads have been treated more as a generic species. A species that hasn't really been very relevant to much of anything, outside of being the generic good guy NPCs.
Click to expand...

This is how I feel about Toad. They're just there, they don't do anything, for fucks sake there are a shitload of Toads in Paper Mario games yet they've never been a companion. Meanwhile Koopas, Goombas, Bob-Ombs, Boos, and others have been given at least that. It's like Nintendo doesn't even have the interest of making at least one relevant Toad character that kicks ass. I can't see him doing anything because even Nintendo basically doesn't make the character useful. At most I can see a Toad assist trophy.
 
I think arguing that the likelihood of a character getting into Smash based on whether they've shown up in a game since the previous installment is already flawed if you look at Melee (ignoring characters that were specifically 'retro'); Falco, Dr. Mario (realize he was thrown in at the last minute, but whatever), Marth, Roy's game hadn't even come out yet... I don't think there's any real underlying logic behind what characters were added after the first game's roster beyond whether Sakurai likes them, if they're popular with fans and if they have either big moveset potential or if the game's being rushed can easily use someone else's moveset.

Also, did we ever find out who that character which Nintendo supposedly had copyright problems getting a hold of for Brawl was? I think Sakurai mentioned in an interview that was the reason why one particular character didn't make it in, but he never hinted as to who it could of been...

I'm betting Banjo Geno
 
Astrosanity said:
Also, did we ever find out who that character which Nintendo supposedly had copyright problems getting a hold of for Brawl was? I think Sakurai mentioned in an interview that was the reason why one particular character didn't make it in, but he never hinted as to who it could of been...
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I'm almost certain it was Geno. Square won't make a sequel for that game, but they'll be damned if they let Nintendo get the rights to any of the cast from it back.
 
shaowebb said:
I'm almost certain it was Geno. Square won't make a sequel for that game, but they'll be damned if they let Nintendo get the rights to any of the cast from it back.
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THAT IS BULLSHIT.

Geno in SSB would be a dream come true. Just like Geno.
 
shaowebb said:
I'm almost certain it was Geno. Square won't make a sequel for that game, but they'll be damned if they let Nintendo get the rights to any of the cast from it back.
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square allowed nintendo to use geno in mario and luigi
 
Ezalc said:
This is how I feel about Toad. They're just there, they don't do anything, for fucks sake there are a shitload of Toads in Paper Mario games yet they've never been a companion. Meanwhile Koopas, Goombas, Bob-Ombs, Boos, and others have been given at least that. It's like Nintendo doesn't even have the interest of making at least one relevant Toad character that kicks ass. I can't see him doing anything because even Nintendo basically doesn't make the character useful. At most I can see a Toad assist trophy.
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Toad has been a playable character in SMB2 and NSMBWii as well as Wario Woods. There have been memorable toad characters as well such as Toadsworth and the Toad Brigade. Also, if we are really going to get into the Mario spinoff debate Toad has been a playable character in both Mario Kart and Mario Party making it more important than the koopas, goombas and bob-ombs.

astrosanity said:
I think arguing that the likelihood of a character getting into Smash based on whether they've shown up in a game since the previous installment is already flawed if you look at Melee (ignoring characters that were specifically 'retro'); Falco, Dr. Mario (realize he was thrown in at the last minute, but whatever), Marth, Roy's game hadn't even come out yet... I don't think there's any real underlying logic behind what characters were added after the first game's roster beyond whether Sakurai likes them, if they're popular with fans and if they have either big moveset potential or if the game's being rushed can easily use someone else's moveset
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I would've agreed with you had only Melee been released. However, Brawl was very much about character's relevance in the series also taking in mind fan requests. Brawl's character inclusions were a lot more calculated than Melee which as you pointed out threw some random, last minute characters out there.
 
shaowebb said:
I'm almost certain it was Geno. Square won't make a sequel for that game, but they'll be damned if they let Nintendo get the rights to any of the cast from it back.
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This just gives me one more reason to hate SE. They're not doing anything with the property, might as well sell it to Nintendo for some bullshit price so that they can at least maybe make back some of the giant amount of money they lost with the shit they've been doing lately.

Also in response to toad. He was playable in NSMBwii because Nintendo got lazy, then with SMB2 that whole game is technically some side project thing because the 'real' smb2 was hard or whatever the fuck the story was behind it. And finally yes there's Toadsworth but have you ever seen him do anything? There are toads which have names and maybe even the hint of a possible personality, but they've never become their own character. Sport spin off games are a terrible example seeing as people want Waluigi or Daisy to represent that, and even then that's a generic Toad in the game. If there was some Paper mario companion that was a Toad or idk something like that I'd understand, but Toad has none of that and there are about a billion other creatures from the Mario universe much more capable of taking his place who also have the base for a moveset already.
 
Right now I'm kinda hating at Geno, but it's mostly because of his fanbase.

Anyway, I think 3rd party character Sonic and Snake won't return. I think they're one-time only. It gives characters like Jiro from The Rolling Western an opportunity.
 
Ookami-kun said:
Right now I'm kinda hating at Geno, but it's mostly because of his fanbase.

Anyway, I think 3rd party character Sonic and Snake won't return. I think they're one-time only. It gives characters like Jiro from The Rolling Western an opportunity.
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Same.

Just give me Mega Man, Ryu and maybe Pac Man and we'll be cool, Nintendo
 
Ookami-kun said:
Right now I'm kinda hating at Geno, but it's mostly because of his fanbase.

Anyway, I think 3rd party character Sonic and Snake won't return. I think they're one-time only. It gives characters like Jiro from The Rolling Western an opportunity.
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This game isn't even out yet. We don't know if it's good or not, and even then the character has been in one game which would be incredibly recent. There's a huge line of much more deserving 3rd party characters ahead of him.
 
Ezalc said:
This game isn't even out yet. We don't know if it's good or not, and even then the character has been in one game which would be incredibly recent. There's a huge line of much more deserving 3rd party characters ahead of him.
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By the time Smash U would be out, his game has been already out.

And no, this is primarily a Nintendo only game with guests being guests. He is, in all accounts, much more deserving purely because he's a primary Nintendo character. Hell, I'd rather have Mac take up Sonic or Snake's place.
 
I don't know whats gonna happen with the Pokemon in this one. I have noticed that he always ADDS Pokemon so even if Lucario is replaced by Z there will likely be another Pokemon character(s).

Sucks because Gen V is FULL of awesome Pokemon that would be great in a SSB game (Scrafty/ Haxorus/ Genosect/ Whimsicott/ Lilligant/ Excadrill and so on) but its likely that Zoroark will be the only one picked because he can replace the mon that replaced Mewtwo (If they keep that damn Lucario they better bring back Mewtwo ... >_>).

But hell, they haven't even gotten started on the game yet. By the the time it comes out (My guess is 3-4 years from now) they can have another Pokemon gen on the way and a Gen 6 Lucario/ Mewtwo/ Zoroark staring in their own movie.


Anyway, my predictions are ....
Pikachu
J-Puff ( >_>)
Pokemon Trainer Red with his first gen starters
Female Pokemon trainer with some other gen starters (I could see it being gen 2 or 3. Maybe I could get my oh-so-wanted Blaziken ...)
Zoroark

What I want is ...
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer with gen 3-2 Pokemon Or maybe 3 different gen Pokemon
A Gym Leader (Iris because I want a Haxorus in this. Hell, they could use the whole Axew line, I don't care as long as I get Hax!)
Mewtwo as the "bad guy".
 
Black-Wind said:
I don't know whats gonna happen with the Pokemon in this one. I have noticed that he always ADDS Pokemon so even if Lucario is replaced by Z there will likely be another Pokemon character(s).

Sucks because Gen V is FULL of awesome Pokemon that would be great in a SSB game (Scrafty/ Haxorus/ Genosect/ Whimsicott/ Lilligant/ Excadrill and so on) but its likely that Zoroark will be the only one picked because he can replace the mon that replaced Mewtwo (If they keep that damn Lucario they better bring back Mewtwo ... >_>).

But hell, they haven't even gotten started on the game yet. By the the time it comes out (My guess is 3-4 years from now) they can have another Pokemon gen on the way and a Gen 6 Lucario/ Mewtwo/ Zoroark staring in their own movie.


Anyway, my predictions are ....
Pikachu
J-Puff ( >_>)
Pokemon Trainer Red with his first gen starters
Female Pokemon trainer with some other gen starters (I could see it being gen 2 or 3. Maybe I could get my oh-so-wanted Blaziken ...)
Zoroark

What I want is ...
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer with gen 3-2 Pokemon Or maybe 3 different gen Pokemon
A Gym Leader (Iris because I want a Haxorus in this. Hell, they could use the whole Axew line, I don't care as long as I get Hax!)
Mewtwo as the "bad guy".
Click to expand...

An E4 Champion like Lance or Cynthia as another variant of the Pokemon Trainer with different pokemons and movesets would be great.
 
Ookami-kun said:
By the time Smash U would be out, his game has been already out.

And no, this is primarily a Nintendo only game with guests being guests. He is, in all accounts, much more deserving purely because he's a primary Nintendo character. Hell, I'd rather have Mac take up Sonic or Snake's place.
Click to expand...

His game is from Nintendo? I could have sworn he'd be a third party character. If he's first party then yeah sure I guess he could make an appearance but I'd be on assist trophy most likely.

I don't understand people's fascination with getting another pokemon trainer, any pokemon trainer etc should just be an alt costume at most, Red is there, make the other ones alt costumes and that's all that is needed.

I saw another poster mention him but I think me and the other poster are the only ones that want Meowth. He's basically Pokemon's second mascot and the closest thing to a rival that Pikachu (Ash's anyway) has. It'd be even more interesting if it was Team Rocket's Meowth since he could use their crazyness in his moveset somehow.
 
The Meowth from the cartoon series would be awesome for someone like me who's nostalgic for the old games and grew up with the show and first few movies, but sort of outgrew them eventually. Same way I could not bring myself to give a shit about whatever Lucario was but thought Pokemon Trainer (who was more or less Red/Ash) was an amazing addition.
 
Ezalc said:
His game is from Nintendo? I could have sworn he'd be a third party character. If he's first party then yeah sure I guess he could make an appearance but I'd be on assist trophy most likely.
Click to expand...

So far all stuff points to Nintendo.
 
Ezalc said:
I saw another poster mention him but I think me and the other poster are the only ones that want Meowth. He's basically Pokemon's second mascot and the closest thing to a rival that Pikachu (Ash's anyway) has. It'd be even more interesting if it was Team Rocket's Meowth since he could use their crazyness in his moveset somehow.
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I remember someone said to me before that in Japan Jigglypuff is basically the second Pokemon (more than Meowth). He's apparently really big there or something.
 
Astrosanity said:
The Meowth from the cartoon series would be awesome for someone like me who's nostalgic for the old games and grew up with the show and first few movies, but sort of outgrew them eventually. Same way I could not bring myself to give a shit about whatever Lucario was but thought Pokemon Trainer (who was more or less Red/Ash) was an amazing addition.
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But there are gamers who do play recent Pokemon games, and appreciated Lucario.

I'm like you, I haven't played Pokemon in a long time, yet have quite a bit of nostalgia for the original games. But I think it was reasonable to include Pokemon Trainer as the nostalgia character and Lucario as the modern era character, along with Pikachu and Jigglypuff just because they're series veterans. Asking for them to appeal only to those of us who appreciate Pokemon through our memories of the older games is a bit selfish, especially when five of the six Pokemon in the game are already from the first generation.
 
I want K. Rool, Ridley, and Samurai Goroh.

Not only are they all villains, which the Smash Bros. series needs more of, but they're all reps for franchises that are still relatively underrepresented in terms of characters.

Diddy Kong was a great addition for Brawl, but I think the DK franchise is deserving of a third character. And I think K. Rool would be a better choice than Dixie Kong.

Although Zero Suit Samus was quite welcome, I don't really consider her a wholly seperate character from Samus. Ridley is the only other Metroid character who makes sense for inclusion.

F-Zero seriously deserves a second character now. It's the only franchise represented in the original Smash Bros. that still only has one rep, and Samurai Goroh makes the most sense, as he's Captain Falcon's rival, and he's one of the original 4 characters in the original SNES F-Zero.
 
As a change of pace from the character wishing norm how about throwing out some stage or item ideas?
I think we are long overdue a Bowser's Castle stage for one and how about a DK stage that isn't in the jungle for a change (ignoring 75m here).

For Items, maybe the propeller block from NSMB wii or that leaf fan item from Spirit Tracks, imagine preventing someones recovery by pushing them back with a gust of wind, even better if it could take items with it, an extension of link's gale boomerang attack if you will.
 
Does anyone else love Lucario in Brawl, but not in the real Pokemon games?

He's my favorite Brawl character, but in the Pokemon games I've never used him, nor do I like him as a Pokemon really...
 
Holy crap, Music Madness would make an amazing level. Though if they didn't care enough to program in the rhythm-based stage hazards, they might as well not even bother. And you know we're just gonna get a jungle level anyway, so no use getting our hopes up. Best hope is that we get a DK level that's actually playable, unlike either of his current ones.

My ideal DK stage would be based on the bramble levels of DKC2. It would be pretty basic, just brambles that can damage if you touch them and wooden platforms that are safe to stand on.

How about a Mushroom Kingdom level that's actually 2D and 8-bit? Not a 3D level inspired by SMB1, but a fully 2D level that actually looks like something from SMB1. Make the characters flat too, like in the Game & Watch levels.

Maybe a Gameboy-inspired level, where everything's black and white pee-yellow. Like the Game & Watch levels, have it cycle through various Gameboy games. Except not as tiny and utter bullshit as the Game & Watch levels.


Man... think about how amazing the backgrounds in Brawl are, and think about how much more amazing they're gonna be in Smash U.


EDIT: Oh got Sunset Shore would also be amazing.

And characters would need something they wear to stay colored, like DK's tie and Diddy's hat in the game. Mario's hat, Link's hat, Samus's visor, Pikachu's cheeks, Kirby's... shoes?
 
I hadn't even thought of what games could lead to cool new levels. DKC:R has the greatest potential for a new level though, imagine that one with all the bugs chasing you down. :lol

Edit: I just realized Sin & Punishment: Star Successor came out. Stage 2
The Winding Ocean Tunnel
would be a fucking godly backdrop especially if they use the stage theme for the deeper part of the level.
 
I've been trying to think of how a Mario Galaxy level could work. Implementing the gravity mechanic would drastically change the way the game plays and would be more trouble than it was worth for one stage. So how do you represent that game?

How about, they start fighting on a planet from the game. Any planetoid. After a while, a giant launch star descends from the sky, spins, and launches everyone. While flying, players continue fighting on one floating platform. Then everyone lands on another planetoid and continues fighting. Rinse and repeat for as many planetoids as they feel like making, then loop.

So sorta like Delphino, but way more awesome.



Oh oh oh. And Skytown from Metroid Prime 3. I don't really have any specific ideas on it, it just looks so freaking awesome.
 
upandaway said:
I remember someone said to me before that in Japan Jigglypuff is basically the second Pokemon (more than Meowth). He's apparently really big there or something.
Click to expand...

Jigglypuff was in the original smash because of it's popularity in the anime at the time, IIRC. Then it came back in melee because it was still somewhat popular and relevant to the anime while also being a 'veteran' it had no business returning in Brawl other than being a 'veteran'. It's completely irrelevant speaking from the anime standpoint, and I'm pretty sure it's popularity in Japan is negligent. People only want it back because it's one of the originals, which I feel is a terrible excuse for it. I think TR's Meowth should take Jigg's spot if he isn't an add on.

As for a stages, for Golden Sun I easily see one of the Lighthouses maybe it could even change randomly between them when the stage is chosen. I don't know locations in the new GS so I can't comment on that.

I also think a Mario Galaxy stage would be incredibly interesting. It'd basically be a little planetoid where the fighters can run the entire circumference of the circle, fight upside down and such. It would be amazing fun!

I think the FE stage should be changed a bit, the interior castle part makes sense, but a lot of battles in the games take place in some field or village so I think that could be used as a stage, or if people prefer something more iconic then I guess the tower in Radiant Dawn could be used.
 
I may be alone on this, but I think a planetoid Galaxy level with the proper Galaxy gravity would be considerably less fun than most conceive. Getting a kill would be nearly impossible, and you'd spend a lot of time just orbiting. It'd be a neat gimmick at first, but I think the novelty would wear off very quickly.
 
Green Mamba said:
I may be alone on this, but I think a planetoid Galaxy level with the proper Galaxy gravity would be considerably less fun than most conceive. Getting a kill would be nearly impossible, and you'd spend a lot of time just orbiting. It'd be a neat gimmick at first, but I think the novelty would wear off very quickly.
Click to expand...

This could easily be dealt with by giving the stage a gravity switch, either Galaxy like gravity or normal smash gravity.
 
Ezalc said:
People only want it back because it's one of the originals, which I feel is a terrible excuse for it.
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How is it a terrible excuse to want a well balanced character with interesting mechanics and unique play style back in Smash? Her play style is not replicated by any other smash character. She is one of the most unique smash characters. It would be dumb on a gameplay perspective to throw her out.
 
Since the developers are getting the job of balancing, they should also have more input on what characters will get in. Either way, they should have A LOT of ideas for characters already already in the concept stage. I mean how could they not!!
 
Ahhh man here we go

3rd Party
-Mega Man
-Bomberman
-Pac-Man
-Simon Belmont
-Ryu (SF)
Banjo-Kazooie

Not Sure Which Party
-Geno

1st Party
-Little Mac
-Ridley
-Samurai Goroh
-K. Rool
-Toad
-Paper Mario
-Muddy Mole
-Mii
-Pokemon or Trainer from Black/White
-Isaac
-Tingle
-Tom Nook
-Medusa
-Starman from Pro Wrestling
-Mike Jones
WHO?

Stages
-DK Sunset sounds good
-Old Gameboy level sounds good too
-N64 Saffron City
-Galaxy Level with crazy ass gravity shifts
-Caslevania Stage (if Belmont gets in)
-Tetris Stage
-If Little Mac and/or Starman get in, have a ring stage with the crowd throwing in items
-Bowser's Castle
-World 7 from Mario 3 with a ton of crazy pipes that you can use

Other shit
-Give Luigi his vacuum
-Bring back Mewtwo
-Jigglypuff cannot leave, that would be horseshit
-Costumes need to happen (Dr. Mario, Samus Suits, Old Snake, etc.)
-Ganondorf needs his own moveset, cmon already
-No more Subspace Emissary, try something else
-Two Fox clones is stupid, either change movesets or get rid of Wolf
-Online mode that is playable
-Add future characters, stages, etc through DLC, minimizing stuff that they wanted to put in the game but couldn't because of time restrictions
 
Ganondorf needs to keep Thunderstomp (Down Air), Flame Choke (Side B) and Warlock Punch (Standard B). Everything beyond that is fair game and should be changed.

A Mario Galaxy stage would actually work if they did it so that while you'd orbit, the harder the hit or the more damage they have, the greater the chance the character has of popping out of the gravitational pull for the KO. It'd be a pretty damn devilish level though if you are juggled while in the orbit. :lol

Final thought, Mario needs to have his spin as down-B again but with Galaxy properties. He could be able to Spin Cancel (think Shine Canceling/using Fox's reflector in the air to cancel the fall speed somewhat in Brawl) once while in the air.
 
Ganondorf's moveset needs to be completely changed to fit whatever his latest game appearance is and his old moveset given to Black Shadow or whatever the guy's name is from F-Zero.
 
Green Mamba said:
Excitebots was never released in any region outside of North America. I'd be really surprised if it's referenced at all.
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Considering some of the incredibly obscure games that were referenced in Brawl (even if just a sticker or trophy,) it wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
illadelph said:
-No more Subspace Emissary, try something else
-Two Fox clones is stupid, either change movesets or get rid of Wolf
-Online mode that is playable
-Add future characters, stages, etc through DLC, minimizing stuff that they wanted to put in the game but couldn't because of time restrictions
Click to expand...
1. I actually liked the Subspace campaign. A little more direct storytelling would be nice, but I really liked the idea of having all these characters interacting in this neutral world. Maybe crossing over each character's environments and worlds would be the next step.

2. Hey, Worl is cool. >.> He's much more different than Falco is. I say kick out Falco and give Wolf his own final smash.

3. YES, PLEASE. Put that Wii Connect24 to some actual use. Do Spot Pass stuff with it.
 
Oh we're doing hopefuls again?

I honestly don't care, I'll buy it regardless.

What I think we'll see?

Paper Mario
Bowser Jr.
Maxwell (Scribblenauts is first party-ish, right?)
Travis Touchdown

And although I have no personal attachment to them, Saki and Isaac (or somebody from the new Golden Sun).

That about wraps up pretty much all the relevant first-party characters I can think of. Probably Zoroark since he's the prominent fifth-gen Pokemon. Any other new characters (a female Fire Emblem rep, maybe) are basically equal crap shoots at the bottom of the barrel because they haven't had any relevance in a while. Of course, Nintendo may have some resurrections we aren't expecting that are in tandem with a Wii U release, so who knows what possibilities we'll have by the time the game actually hits development stages.
 
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