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[teezzy]

I have a crt and I don't see the big deal. The interlacing is very noticible. Brightness seems lower than my 14 year old Sony lcd and that noise it makes when on is ear piercing.

Maybe I just haven't seen a good one

Potentially the latter, but it all depends on what you're pumping into it. That 13" JVC on the top left in my OP has just under 800 scan lines. It's breathtaking for older consoles with S Video. The only problem is that it's 13" and I don't always want to sit so close to my screen.

The big Sony PVM underneath is from '89 so it needs to be recapped, but even then the scan line number is far less than that JVC. I just appreciate the aesthetic ultimately, warts and all. Keeps games feeling like games. There's merit to that.

 

[goldenpp72]

Dude, there is not a 30hz difference between CRT and LED televisions.

There used to be. My first LCD had such bad ghosting I thought it was broken. Nowadays it kind of takes going back to the CRT to notice the differences. The biggest one is definitely responsiveness. I'm used to low lag HD set but immediately see the difference when going back. Otherwise people who think crt sets outclass top end oled sets, yeah no.

 

[Solarstrike]

I don't miss them. They were heavy as fuck.

My ex has a 38in CRT i bought from Best Buy years ago. Still like new. Told her i still wanted it. Thing weighs over 300lbs easy. The tv weighs even more

 

[TLZ]

Found the model. It's this one:

https://www.sony.com.au/electronics/support/televisions-projectors/kv-sw292m31/specifications

Apparently it's 29" and weighs 47kgs. Bought it months ago for a$20 and don't ask me how I carried it alone all the way from the garage to the 2nd floor

Also, I've no idea how well this one is rated. Good or not, no idea. All I know is it's lagfree and playing my Famicom on awesome RF quality

 

[Solarstrike]

I wish I could fucking find a quality one. Everywhere I look, they're either asking a shit ton of money or the monitor looks to be in iffy condition.

I'm in Michigan. Can set you up with one if you feel like moving it. 38in Sony or Panasonic, forgot which one.

Edit: Think this is the one but it's Silver in color. I need to find out which model it is, smh.

 

[Solarstrike]

Double post but this really has me thinking...I really wish newer televisions had "filter options". Like Nvidia's "Freestyle" plug-in. Where you could add filter overlays, etc. All integrated from an app or something or built into the television video options. Something which doesn't make retro console video feed look like complete ass when plugged in. Would even be useful for the Switch's 1080p output. BOTW would probably look beautiful on a CRT/scanline option, imo. Some videos are out in the wild...

 

[baphomet]

I'm glad I started grabbing CRTs when I did. Last time I checked I still have 6-7 20'' PVMs in my stash. Most I paid was $60. Majority were free or like $20.

240p will always be best on one of them using RGB. Framemeisters and OSSCs are cool and all, but they don't hold a candle to an actual RGB CRT

 

[T_LVPL]

RGB display on a Trinitron is godly. basically looks HD except for text/subtitles. my telly i posted on the last page, i remember the next size up was 28 inches and it even had Component too. It was the first time i'd heard of component. not many tvs had it in 2001. No regrets as it would've been too big and heavy, very expensive to run and with less lifespan than the 21 inch. but i can only guess how good a wii/ps2/ps3 with component would've looked on it.

 

[Dr.D00p]

I played on a Panasonic 32in Widescreen CRT during the Dreamcast & 'Original' Xbox era....Oh my.

Halo campaign using the sets Dolby pro logic output was a sight & sound to behold.

..And my PC monitor at the time as a 21in Mitsubishi Diamond Pro...1600x1200@75hz was the 4K of its day.

 

[cireza]

Can't stand interlaced. However, for 240p, CRTs are awesome. I play with retro consoles on a medium sized CRT and it is awesome, will never part from this TV. Had it for 20 years at least.

 

[Craig of War]

I love my CRT monitor still have it

 

[lachesis]

Man, every time I come across CRT discussion, I end up searching for one, hoping to connect and play retro games.... but at the same time, I end up realizing how big and bulky those where. At the same time, I really miss those good quality pictures.

Just spent last hour gawking at ebay - but realized those widescreen HD CRT TVs - (I don't have any retro consoles anymore, but those Minis...) they are like 196lbs - basically 30lbs heavier than me - and no way for me to carry it myself w/o any help down up the stairs to my doorway, and down to the basement.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Great thread!

Let's post the articles:

Inside the desperate fight to keep old TVs alive

CRTs were once synonymous with television, but by 2014, even stronghold markets like India were fading, with local manufacturers switching to flat-panel displays. Despite all this, picture tube televisions continue to linger. You’ll find them in museums, arcades, video game tournaments, and the...

www.theverge.com

We played modern games on a CRT monitor - and the results are phenomenal

Better than any LCD, if you ask us

www.eurogamer.net

Why This 20-Year-Old CRT Monitor Is Better Than a 4K LCD

LCD displays have their merits, but they still don't match the responsiveness of clunky CRT screens.

www.vice.com

and that video:

 

[SantaC]

I don't miss them. They were heavy as fuck.

I nearly broke my back carrying my 32" Sony Triniton three floors up to my apartment with no elevator back in the day.

 

[pawel86ck]

I'm using old 21'inch SD CRT for 320x240 retro games, but I wonder how much better 480p from PS2 / xbox 1 would look on HD CRT? In my country HD CRT were extremely rare and I know 480p can make a difference on LCD / PDP, so I assume 480p on CRT would look much better too?

 

[Riven326]

There used to be. My first LCD had such bad ghosting I thought it was broken. Nowadays it kind of takes going back to the CRT to notice the differences. The biggest one is definitely responsiveness. I'm used to low lag HD set but immediately see the difference when going back. Otherwise people who think crt sets outclass top end oled sets, yeah no.

Hertz and ghosting are not the same thing. A display can be 60hz but suffer from bad ghosting. It was an issue in the early days of HD displays. So it's not that there was this 30hz difference between the two. It was that early LCD televisions had trouble displaying fast motion properly.

 

[Rentahamster]

There used to be. My first LCD had such bad ghosting I thought it was broken. Nowadays it kind of takes going back to the CRT to notice the differences. The biggest one is definitely responsiveness. I'm used to low lag HD set but immediately see the difference when going back. Otherwise people who think crt sets outclass top end oled sets, yeah no.

There used to be? The slowest refresh rates American CRTs had was 60Hz, IIRC.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

i love CRTs

there is just something magical about the glow. and the sound! if you play an old console game through a CRT, there is nothing like than NES sound chip reverberating through a cathode ray tube.

i only have one at the moment. it's a little unit with a built in VCR (that no longer works). i bought it from a Goodwill store 20 years ago for 1 dollar. it still works!!!

CRTs forever

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Double post but this really has me thinking...I really wish newer televisions had "filter options". Like Nvidia's "Freestyle" plug-in. Where you could add filter overlays, etc. All integrated from an app or something or built into the television video options. Something which doesn't make retro console video feed look like complete ass when plugged in. Would even be useful for the Switch's 1080p output. BOTW would probably look beautiful on a CRT/scanline option, imo. Some videos are out in the wild...

The best way to make retro titles look good on a modern display is, unfortunately, to use emulation with shaders to simulate the look of a CRT. It would be nice if there were an easy way to apply them to the output of real hardware but because of the power required it's not really viable.

 

[lachesis]

I wish Sony or some other manufacturer would tab into the gaming market and make 24" or smaller HD (preferably 4k) CRTs... and market it as gaming monitor - which would be really awesome. I would be the first one in line to get one, even at a premium price....

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

OP, do you have a marble table under all that stuff? Must be heavy as hell, haha.

I really wish efforts were made by TV manufacturers to improve motion clarity instead of fucking resolution and size. Yeah, 4K stuff on OLED looks amazing, but my old plasma at 1080p is so close that the jump in resolution is basically worthless. And OLED needs some motion adjustments to give almost the same motion rendition as plasma - which, in turn, is nowhere near a CRT when it comes to motion. I remember playing Metroid Prime on plasma out of a Wii. It was fine, I thought. Then I replayed it on a CRT out of a GameCube and OH. MY. GOD. It's like your eyes are getting a massage. Older games look just buttery smooth on CRT. No other display technology can do that still, and I don't think any of the current techs ever will.

As for size... there's really all these people with a living room large enough to accommodate a 75+ incher, let alone sit at a reasonable distance from it?

Is it really physically impossible to make a truly flat CRT set? I remember some of the later Samsung models being somewhat "flatter" (still large and hefty, though) but suffering from horrible distortion.
I remember reading something about SED, but that's been abandoned long ago.

Is there any hope that some new and better display technology will be investigated in the future, or are we stuck forever with LEDs and all kinds of digital thingamagigs to improve motion rendition from them? If so, why are display makers so slow in improving their thingamagigs? Between gamers and cinema lovers, you'd think this should be, if not a priority, at least a serious concern by now. I seriously can't imagine getting better IQ from currently available sources than a current sub-3K US$ OLED can get you. It's hard enough to tell apart TV sets in the same price bracket as it is.

 

[teezzy]

NeoIkaruGAF It's actually one of two old ass drafting tables I own from Ford Motor Company. A great uncle of mine worked as an auditor for them decades ago. The other one supports my PC setup. Things are tanks.

 

[The Pleasure]

I don't miss them. They were heavy as fuck.

Do you even lift?

 

[dolabla]

Said this before, but it's a shame we never got a true successor. Nothing can compete with the clarity of motion, viewing angles, etc, of a CRT. One day I hope we can get it. I guess Plasma and OLED is the closest, but I've never used either.

 

[Riven326]

Do you even lift?

No. CRTs made me not want to lift a fucking thing.

 

[Mithos]

I remember reading something about SED, but that's been abandoned long ago.

Copied from my port in this thread: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/digital-foundry-crt-and-motion-resolution.1502728/

Was a while ago SED was up and about... Some links (not necessary the best links available) IF you/or anyone else want to read about it.

How SED-TV Works

The surface-conduction electron-emitter display (SED) combines the picture quality of a CRT with the compact design of a flat-screen plasma display. Learn exactly how the SED-TV creates a picture.

electronics.howstuffworks.com

Surface-conduction electron-emitter display - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Whatever happened to SED TV?

It was going to be the tech to beat LCD and plasma

www.techradar.com

 

[teezzy]

I'm actually hoping to snag a Wii soon enough so that I can mod it, run S-Video out and emulate some old Genesis and SNES RPGs onto the setup. Probably Xenoblade also.

Nothing brings me joy quite like grinding through some old RPGs with this and my fancy Sony MDR-1R headphones for fancy sound quality also.

Its gaming bliss.

 

[dave_d]

Is it really physically impossible to make a truly flat CRT set? I remember some of the later Samsung models being somewhat "flatter" (still large and hefty, though) but suffering from horrible distortion.
I remember reading something about SED, but that's been abandoned long ago.

From what I remember the big problem that CRTs had was that the inside of the tube was a near vacuum. So they had to make the things at least slightly round and couldn't make them too big otherwise the literal tons of atmosphere on them would implode them.(You know, ~15 lb/sqinch means a lot of force trying to crush it. Thick round glass was how it deals with it.)

 

[dave_d]

Oh of course one thing to look out for if you're going for a HD CRT. If you hook up a PS3 to it a lot of those TVs are 1080i and 480i only. If you hook up a PS3 to it don't be surprised if it defaults to 480i since the high res games on the PS3 are usually 720p or 1080p.(Which the TV doesn't support.) I know there's at least one HD CRT tv that supports those resolutions but I can't remember which one. (Oddly enough Sony didn't support it. A friend of my from one of the places I worked was seriously pissed when he bought his PS3, hooked it up to his Sony HD CRT and could only play SD because of unsupported resolutions.)

 

[kingbean]

I'm actually hoping to snag a Wii soon enough so that I can mod it, run S-Video out and emulate some old Genesis and SNES RPGs onto the setup. Probably Xenoblade also.

Nothing brings me joy quite like grinding through some old RPGs with this and my fancy Sony MDR-1R headphones for fancy sound quality also.

Its gaming bliss.

If you're gonna do it you should just pick up a 2nd hand snes and genesis. They can be had for cheap, probably 110 for the both 70 snes and 40 for the genesis. Grab you an everdrive and just go to town. Nothing beats the real hardware on a quality CRT.

The SNES supports RGB and S-video out the box, the genesis supports RGB and composite. You'd have to either get an HDretrovision cable or mod it for s-video.

 

[teezzy]

If you're gonna do it you should just pick up a 2nd hand snes and genesis. They can be had for cheap, probably 110 for the both 70 snes and 40 for the genesis. Grab you an everdrive and just go to town. Nothing beats the real hardware on a quality CRT.

The SNES supports RGB and S-video out the box, the genesis supports RGB and composite. You'd have to either get an HDretrovision cable or mod it for s-video.

Yeah, that's what my buddy has, but truthfully I don't want all the games. He is always switching between titles and never settles on one. I could do that on my PC, if I wanted. Cares more about having access to full libraries than actually playing them. I resent the sentiment.

Really just want to have all my favorite RPGs from SNES, Genesis, GCN and Wii all in one box and I'm good.

My other consideration would be a Wii U due to superior tech, and running it via HDMI on that Toshiba, but I'd rather go for the 4:3 displays

I only really have room for one more console on that table, and the Wii would be perfect. I'm just hoping there's no FPS drops when it runs GCN or Wii games like that. The whole Wii homebrew scene is super foreign to me tbh. I can't wait to learn more.

 

[Tesseract]

i'd almost say hell yeah and get back into these, but tech is finally catching up

 

[#Phonepunk#]

LGR has a variety of videos where he plays new games on old CRTs. cool stuff

 

[nkarafo]

The motion clarity is the one thing for me that makes crts superior than modern panels.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Oh of course one thing to look out for if you're going for a HD CRT. If you hook up a PS3 to it a lot of those TVs are 1080i and 480i only. If you hook up a PS3 to it don't be surprised if it defaults to 480i since the high res games on the PS3 are usually 720p or 1080p.(Which the TV doesn't support.) I know there's at least one HD CRT tv that supports those resolutions but I can't remember which one. (Oddly enough Sony didn't support it. A friend of my from one of the places I worked was seriously pissed when he bought his PS3, hooked it up to his Sony HD CRT and could only play SD because of unsupported resolutions.)

You can force 99% of games to output in 1080i by unticking 720p & 1080p. which shouldn't be checked when using a CRT anyway. There are still a few titles that refuse to comply though IIRC.

 

[SegaShack]

What's an OSSC?

I own a Sony PVM20L5 and an OSSC. OSSC never looked good no matter how much I messed with it. Was hoping for the best since I have a 120" projector screen and would've ditched the CRT for a bigger size.

Oh well.

 

[eot]

I was using a CRT at home until a few years ago (couldn't bring it with me when I moved). Dug it out recently when I visited home, and it's freaking huge (could just barely fit my keyboard in front of it on the desk) and the slight curve on the display threw me off initially.

The reason I hung onto it was mostly that it's way better for CS 1.6, which is best played at 640x480 at high refresh rates. Arbitrary resolution choice is nice for a lot of games though, as is the lack of ghosting. With flat screens I feel like you have to make a trade off between refresh rate / ghosting and image quality. I'm not on top of the monitor market though, so maybe that's changed.

I saw a GDM-FW900 for sale recently, but it was too far away. If there was one for sale in my city I'd buy it.

 

[dave_d]

You can force 99% of games to output in 1080i by unticking 720p & 1080p. which shouldn't be checked when using a CRT anyway. There are still a few titles that refuse to comply though IIRC.

Oh wait, you jogged my memory. Wasn't the deal that in earlier firmware that didn't work? Now that you mention it I think Sony added something in one of the newer firmware that does that. I guess it was a bigger deal earlier in the PS3's lifetime.

 

[Rentahamster]

I wish Sony or some other manufacturer would tab into the gaming market and make 24" or smaller HD (preferably 4k) CRTs... and market it as gaming monitor - which would be really awesome. I would be the first one in line to get one, even at a premium price....

Me too, but it's entirely economically infeasible.

 

[rofif]

More pics since I feel like showing off
The 17" samsung 757dfx (It's doing even 1920x1200 at high hz... but it's weird and probably interpolated. 1024x768 120hz is real though. It's very hard to set res and hz on old vga monitors on windows 10.

The pixel structure on samsung above is great

And on the image below there is 15" old hyundai. I really wanted it for duke nukem but it's so very dark in reality

But it does Degauss like if wanted to murder to live again lol

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Oh wait, you jogged my memory. Wasn't the deal that in earlier firmware that didn't work? Now that you mention it I think Sony added something in one of the newer firmware that does that. I guess it was a bigger deal earlier in the PS3's lifetime.

Not sure...but it quite possibly could be. It sounds like the kind of thing that would only be added later. I know it worked that way by 2011, when I finally got a PS3. I wasn't using a CRT but I was using Yipper, and it exhibited ghosting to the right of everything at 720p. It was better at 1080i but every now and then I had to check 720p again for a few specific games that would just output in 480p.

 

[Harlock]

 

[Romulus]

I'm surprised someone hasn't come out with a modern CRT considering all the buzz and how huge retro gaming is. I have a 27 inch sony CRT but I still use my LCD just out of convenience. I know crt looks better it's just not even worth the hassle to dig it out of storage.

 

[rofif]

I'm surprised someone hasn't come out with a modern CRT considering all the buzz and how huge retro gaming is. I have a 27 inch sony CRT but I still use my LCD just out of convenience. I know crt looks better it's just not even worth the hassle to dig it out of storage.

I would get 24 or 27" crt day one. Especially if it supports freesync

 

[goldenpp72]

Hertz and ghosting are not the same thing. A display can be 60hz but suffer from bad ghosting. It was an issue in the early days of HD displays. So it's not that there was this 30hz difference between the two. It was that early LCD televisions had trouble displaying fast motion properly.

I never said they were the same thing, it was a comparison. Not sure why that's so confusing, just that the differences are there even if people don't notice much like black levels or other elements involved with tvs.

 

[teezzy]

 

[Rat Rage]

I wish Sony or some other manufacturer would tab into the gaming market and make 24" or smaller HD (preferably 4k) CRTs... and market it as gaming monitor - which would be really awesome. I would be the first one in line to get one, even at a premium price....

What a dream. It doesn't even need to be 4K. Not sure if that would even be possible. I'd get one, too.

 

[Rentahamster]

What a dream. It doesn't even need to be 4K. Not sure if that would even be possible. I'd get one, too.

I don't think the economics would work out. How much would you be willing to pay for one?

 

[teezzy]

I know there's an entire DIY speaker scene.

Are there people who build their own TVs? Is that even possible?

 

[Rat Rage]

I don't think the economics would work out. How much would you be willing to pay for one?

Depends on the size. Problem with big sizes is that CRTs even at 29 inch get heavy as fuck. Bigger is impossible. But 21 to 25 inch is manageable . For a 21 or 25 inch new, at 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratio, high quality CRT (maybe even Full HD / 4k not sure if possible) with good sound, which supports progressive scan, rgb, s-video, composite, component, hdmi and vga and maybe has an integrated de-interlacer, I'd pay 500 to 1000 easily.