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[ScOULaris]

Blade Runner was a neo-noire detective story set in a darkly near-futuristic urban setting with advanced technology, androids, and questions about what it means to be "human."

You could argue that it fits with the genre aesthetically more than in terms on the plot's finer details, but there should be little question about its label as cyberpunk.

These two sub-genres are as defined by their aesthetics as other contributing factors. Maybe "style" would be a more appropriate term than "genre."

 

[nitewulf]

Steampunk's not really a genre. There were only a handful of works that could've been considered steampunk. For the most part, the genre was made up of simple scifi written during the Victorian period or just a small subset of retro-futurism (Wild Wild West tv show) that didn't deserve to be singled out as steampunk. The first actual steampunk work was William Gibson's Difference Engine, and it was only called steampunk because it was by the guy who basically started cyberpunk.

After that, nothing for a long time. Only a few notable works, of which only a couple self identified as steampunk (like Arcanum). Then goths realized they could wear top hats and monocles and there went the neighborhood. It became a fashion and a style and while there are still few notable works being created in this genre, go to any convention in the US and you'll see people dressing up as stormtroopers with top hats and monocles.

But cyberpunk, man. That's some awesome shit right there. Blade Runner. Tron. Neuromancer (Blade Runner + Tron). Max Headroom. Wild Palms. Batman Beyond. Shadowrun. Snow Crash. I didn't have to look up notable cyberpunk works like I did steampunk, because it is an actual genre with actual notable works.

Plus, cyberpunk basically predicted a distopic future when civilians were dependent on technology they didn't understand, connected to everything through a giant computer network, ruled by ruthless, powerful, and amoral corporations. More on more, reality is starting to look cyberpunk. And not in a good way.

holy shieeeeet. you are the first person ever in the history of the internet who remembers wild palms besides me. that was an awesome miniseries.

 

[Purkake4]

Has GAF just invented semantics punk? Taxonomy punk?

 

[radios shipping overview]

Blade Runner did not feature computer technology and the main character was someone working for the authorities.

What--

I--

How did you--

I give up.

 

[Medalion]

STEAMPUNK, THE EUROTRASH OF NERD-DOM

 

[Locke]

Whoever said Steampunk is very popular in the scifi/fantasy literary world is spot on. Go to the new books section of a barnes and noble and you will see at least 25% are steampunk novels.

However, most of these are trash, if you want to understand exactly what GOOD steampunk is, read China Mieville. Start with Perdido Street Station, then read The Scar, and then Iron Council.

I hope somone can back me up here, I can't be the only China Mieville fan.

 

[G-Fex]

I preffer SteamPunk

 

[Suairyu]

What--

I--

How did you--

I give up.

Yeah.

The funny part is, the second part of that quotation also shows he has no clue about the plot of Blade Runner either. He lists pretty much every quality of Blade Runner and then says Blade Runner contains none of it.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Whoever said Steampunk is very popular in the scifi/fantasy literary world is spot on. Go to the new books section of a barnes and noble and you will see at least 25% are steampunk novels.

However, most of these are trash, if you want to understand exactly what GOOD steampunk is, read China Mieville. Start with Perdido Street Station, then read The Scar, and then Iron Council.

I hope somone can back me up here, I can't be the only China Mieville fan.

China Mieville is very good but he calls what he writes "new weird" not steampunk.

Yeah.

The funny part is, the second part of that quotation also shows he has no clue about the plot of Blade Runner either.

I remember the parts when Deckard working for the police through the movie right until the end.

 

[Deified Data]

Steampunk? Underutilized? Psshaw.

 

[Dyno]

Blade Runner did not feature computer technology and the main character was someone working for the authorities.

You're ideas are completely wrong but what's worse is that you are not even trying to use facts.

Blade Runner featured a computerized 'lie detector' that could sniff out androids. Decker used a computer to enhance an image and account for reflections.

 

[Locke]

Well, he can call it whatever he wants, I still think it pretty clearly fits. In a society he creates with robots and magic and airships, one of the primary parts is BUILDING A RAILROAD. I don't think you can get more steampunk than that.

 

[Deified Data]

You're ideas are completely wrong but what's worse is that you are not even trying to use facts.

Blade Runner featured a computerized 'lie detector' that could sniff out androids. Decker used a computer to enhance an image and account for reflections.

Blade Runner had, wait for it, androids! Anthropomorphic computers!

 

[Suairyu]

I remember the parts when Deckard working for the police through the movie right until the end.

Do you remember the bit where Deckard is a replicant, has his thought patterns controlled in a very specific, systematic way and is part of the greater system of control as conceived in tandem by the Tyrell corporation and LAPD? Do you remember him realising all this at the end and attempting to escape the system right before credits roll? He wasn't working for the system, he was the system.

Computer systems to identify replicants, pilot cars and analyse holographic photography. A populace 'plugged in' to the technological world on the street level, overshadowed by the great Tyrell empire. Billboard advertise an unnamed drug (take it! It's good for you. This pretty Geisha is taking it so it must be good!), advertising everyone to move off-world where things are better (but no-one can anyway - the majority of the people onscreen aren't rich enough and those that are have to much of a power base on Earth to bother).

Artificial life forms that finally have become so complex (Nexus 6) that they, in their struggle for more life, begin to understand empathy and compassion - the only thing that allows Replicants to be identified is their lack of empathy in the voight kampff tests. Batty at the end holds the dove in his hand - he wants to feel something living. If these are Nexus 6, what are Nexus 7?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

You're ideas are completely wrong but what's worse is that you are not even trying to use facts.

Blade Runner featured a computerized 'lie detector' that could sniff out androids. Decker used a computer to enhance an image and account for reflections.

They were portrayed more as mechanical tools that were used in specific places in the plot. It's not like every detective story where the detective uses a lie detector or finger prints is cyberpunk. The film was about the replicants which fall more under the domain of robotics than cybernetics. Blade Runner is a Science Fiction movie, what can you say.

 

[Awesome Animals]

They were portrayed more as mechanical tools that were used in specific places in the plot. It's not like every detective story where the detective uses a lie detector or finger prints is cyberpunk. The film was about the replicants which fall more under the domain of robotics than cybernetics. Blade Runner is a Science Fiction movie, what can you say.

I don't think cyberpunk is seperated from science fiction.

 

[Suairyu]

Somebody break out a venn diagram.

 

[BattleMonkey]

hipsterpunk

 

[Suairyu]

hipsterpunk

Wouldn't that be a tautology? Hipsters are already street-level.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I don't think cyberpunk is seperated from science fiction.

But it is mainly a science fiction film and just about anything you might want to explain about the film being a work of cyberpunk could more easily and obviously be explained by it just being science fiction.

 

[Sqorgar]

Do you remember the bit where Deckard is a replicant

Woah, woah. That is a WHOLE different nerd argument. Let's not get distracted from making fun of More Fun To Compute's unusual semantics.

By the way, I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.

 

[Irish]

What, this doesn't make you question humanism and society in general?

http://www.trendsplant.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/steampunk1-660x495.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Well, shit... if we are judging quality based on cosplay, then everything in life must be soulwrenchingly bad.

 

[Awesome Animals]

But it is mainly a science fiction film and just about anything you might want to explain about the film being a work of cyberpunk could more easily and obviously be explained by it just being science fiction.

If you take out the science fiction elements of cyberpunk, it just becomes a story about a dystopian society focused on the street level players, or the criminal underground. science fiction is just part of the whole.

 

[ultron87]

By the way, I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.

Oh, so it's Tannhauserpunk.

Now it all makes sense.

 

[Dyno]

They were portrayed more as mechanical tools that were used in specific places in the plot. It's not like every detective story where the detective uses a lie detector or finger prints is cyberpunk. The film was about the replicants which fall more under the domain of robotics than cybernetics. Blade Runner is a Science Fiction movie, what can you say.

Blade Runner did not feature computer technology...

I was pointing out that it did. It was subtle but certainly there. Are you saying that the android brains were not computer technology?

It's not like every detective story where the detective uses a lie detector or finger prints is cyberpunk.

This is the very definition of a straw man argument. No one has made that point except yourself. What are you talking about now?

 

[ScOULaris]

But it is mainly a science fiction film and just about anything you might want to explain about the film being a work of cyberpunk could more easily and obviously be explained by it just being science fiction.

I dunno, man. Stop playing devil's advocate. Blade Runner is what everyone thinks of when they hear "cyberpunk," and you know it. Everything that emulates the Blade Runner vibe (Snatcher, Syndicate, Shadowrun) is immediately labeled "cyberpunk" as a result. Will you finally concede this ridiculous argument?

 

[Sqorgar]

But it is mainly a science fiction film and just about anything you might want to explain about the film being a work of cyberpunk could more easily and obviously be explained by it just being science fiction.

I hate to say it, but maybe a Venn diagram isn't a bad idea for this discussion...

 

[Suairyu]

Venn Ds be bringing the fucking circlepunk up in this bitch.

edit - here we go:

 

[Sqorgar]

Oh, so it's Tannhauserpunk.

Now it all makes sense.

But Tannhauser is a dieselpunk!

 

[ScOULaris]

So many punks, so little time.

 

[Awesome Animals]

I think he is just trolling at this point.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I hate to say it, but maybe a Venn diagram isn't a bad idea for this discussion...

It would have to a pretty big chart to make something a tiny as cyberpunk visible compared to science fiction.

I dunno, man. Stop playing devil's advocate. Blade Runner is what everyone thinks of when they hear "cyberpunk," and you know it. Everything that emulates the Blade Runner vibe (Snatcher, Syndicate, Shadowrun) is immediately labeled "cyberpunk" as a result. Will you finally concede this ridiculous argument?

Will I concede that the visual language of cyberpunk is derived from Blade Runner? Sure, already have.

 

[The Technomancer]

It would have to a pretty big chart to make something a tiny as cyberpunk visible compared to science fiction.

Perhaps a logarithmic venn diagram?

Is that even a thing?

 

[tino]

Cyberpunk is the future; Steampunk is just a cynical detour.

 

[Awesome Animals]

It would have to a pretty big chart to make something a tiny as cyberpunk visible compared to science fiction.

Cyberpunk is a sub-genre of science fiction, is it not?

 

[MNC]

I can't decide, I love both so much. But where are my blade runner screenshots!

 

[coldvein]

What, this doesn't make you question humanism and society in general?

HAHAHAH.

 

[distantmantra]

Steampunk has been overplayed as fuck during the last few years.

I came in here to say the same thing.

 

[ScOULaris]

I can't decide, I love both so much. But where are my blade runner screenshots!

Here you go:

 

[coldvein]

where and how does "punk" fit into "steampunk"

 

[Cyan]

Underutilized?

 

[G-Fex]

Cyberpunk is the future; Steampunk is just a cynical detour.

Cyberpunk is no fun

 

[ScOULaris]

Cyberpunk is no fun

 

[G-Fex]

Yes you have an avatar too,

what's your favorite color?

 

[Wiseblade]

Cyberpunk is bestpunk. Cyberpunk has an amazing aesthetic and has some amazing potential for fiction. Steampunk is now little more than a cosplay theme at conventions.

 

[Neuromancer]

Not since Thermopolae has there been such an obviously one-sided battle.

 

[Suairyu]

where and how does "punk" fit into "steampunk"

A technology orientated society running off steam is going to be pretty dirty, man. As with cyberpunk, the idea is you explore what the tech does on an everyman level.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

I like cyberpunk more for the simple fact that I can trick myself into believing that the future could be like that. In the other hand, steampunk borders on the fantastic and is less philosophical about the self.

 

[daviyoung]

 

[googleplex]

Diesel powered stuff and art deco instead of steam powered and victorian stuff. Wikipedia

Like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.

I thought that was called retro fusion.

Also Giant Robo anime would qualify as steam punk.