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[Kaneda Shotaro]

I am really curious about the bond between Luke and Ben. Does Ben have more affection for Luke than for his own father, because of their training? What does Luke think about Ben?

Lots of potential for some drama.

Again, grain of salt etc.

Spoiler

Apparently they only have one scene together face to face and it's gut wrenching. This scene is a transition and seeing as how both of them are in 9, obviously Luke doesn't kill him. You feel for Luke and Ben more than any other characters.

Which is why the thought that "Ben can't be the only Skywalker because he's bad!" is bullshit. I think he's more interesting than Rey, sorry.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Your "explaining her past in a couple of sentences" thought is the exact reason she is not a Kenobi. Worst theory I've ever heard. It's absolutely insane for one reason: you'd have to then tell the story of Ben's kids and forget that. No, what a mess that would be. .

Why does it have to be a mess?

It's not like it needs to be a wikipedia entry. Hell, it's not like she even really knows what a Ben Kenobi is. Luke doesn't need to do the Threepio Toronto Gosh recap of the Life and Times of Ben Kenobi to get it done.

"He was my teacher. He watched over me when I was young. He got attached to a woman, for a while. He wasn't supposed to. There were... rules, I guess? He didn't follow those very well, as it turns out. She left shortly thereafter, and had your mother. Your mother met so and so.."

It really doesn't need to be anymore complicated than Ben's explanation of Luke's dad to Luke in Star Wars, which, remember, at the time was 100% accurate, since Lucas hadn't considered making Vader his father at that point.

Telling the story of people you're never going to meet in the story isn't all that hard, or complicated, and you don't need a list of begats to justify it either.

 

[Lifejumper]

Again, grain of salt etc.

Spoiler

Apparently they only have one scene together face to face and it's gut wrenching. This scene is a transition and seeing as how both of them are in 9, obviously Luke doesn't kill him. You feel for Luke and Ben more than any other characters.

Which is why the thought that "Ben can't be the only Skywalker because he's bad!" is bullshit. I think he's more interesting than Rey, sorry.

Yeah. I like Rey but Ben is most interesting character the series has seen imo.

 

[Ether_Snake]

My personal hope is that Ben takes up teaching new students having been on both sides in the next trilogy. That would be something fresh and new. Meanwhile Rey is some Jedi master somewhere else, who knows.

Your "explaining her past in a couple of sentences" thought is the exact reason she is not a Kenobi. Worst theory I've ever heard. It's absolutely insane for one reason: you'd have to then tell the story of Ben's kids and forget that. No, what a mess that would be. Then, you'd have to explain how, after giving so much shit to Anakin for so long about love to watch him literally destroy the universe because of that, he goes and has his own kid...god no, fucking horrible. Would make Obi wan a worse character and then you'd have too much dialogue on something so ridiculous. Then I'd need a film on his kids...that never met Luke until episode 6 was over?! Yeah, no.

Obi Wan can only be her father if he force-ghosted impregnated someone. It's so stupid.

edit; I doubt Kylo will ever go back to being good. They made a reason for him to become more powerful than Vader was in VII with him killing Han, it's a DBZ plot device and I don't think they'll go back on it (Vader never fully turned to the dark side, but now he has by getting rid of his sentimental attachments to his family, so he can do some new super moves in VIII and be more powerful than Vader to have a cooler fight with Luke or Rey than Luke VS Vader in VI). I think his fate is sealed now.

 

[Kaneda Shotaro]

Why does it have to be a mess?

It's not like it needs to be a wikipedia entry. Hell, it's not like she even really knows what a Ben Kenobi is. Luke doesn't need to do the Threepio Toronto Gosh recap of the Life and Times of Ben Kenobi to get it done.

"He was my teacher. He watched over me when I was young. He got attached to a woman, for a while. He wasn't supposed to. There were... rules, I guess? He didn't follow those very well, as it turns out. She left shortly thereafter, and had your mother. Your mother met so and so.."

It really doesn't need to be anymore complicated than Ben's explanation of Luke's dad to Luke in Star Wars, which, remember, at the time was 100% accurate, since Lucas hadn't considered making Vader his father at that point.

Telling the story of people you're never going to meet in the story isn't all that hard, or complicated, and you don't need a list of begats to justify it either.

So...they must've not been very powerful with the force because where were his kids during 4-6? Why didn't they help? And why did they suddenly give their kid to Luke after years of not talking to Luke or their dad. Vader and the Emperor didn't sense them? It just seems like they'd do it just to do it, fucking making sense of it.

Though that does give them a ton of new material for media.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Ben can only be her father

Nobody said Obi-Wan was her father. Just that she's a relative. Probably a grandchild.

This consistent misunderstanding sorta points to the limitations people place on themselves and on Star Wars when speculating: The reveal (and/or twist) has to involve a FATHER, to them. Ben can't stay bad, because the bad guy has to be redeemed. So on and so forth.

It really seems like most of the storytelling in Star Wars since the transition to new leadership has been about changing those "rules" and tweaking the notions of what you can and can't do with the storytelling. For as much as everyone's made fun of "it's like poetry, it rhymes," a lot of the speculation relies heavily on adhering to simply finding a new way to do the same shit you already saw precisely because it rhymes! Stuff that posits it could go a different direction, or take a different branching path in the same general direction gets dismissed out-of-hand.

So...they must've not been very powerful with the force

Maybe? Maybe only one of her parents was strong? Maybe it was suppressed because her gramma was scared they'd get killed if it came out? Maybe it just never got tapped into?

and why did they suddenly give their kid to Luke

Who said anything about giving their kid to Luke? They gave their kid to Unkar Plutt.

Though that does give them a ton of new material for media.

Ah-haaaaa

 

[Ether_Snake]

Nobody said Obi-Wan was her father. Just that she's a relative. Probably a grandchild.

This consistent misunderstanding sorta points to the limitations people place on themselves and on Star Wars when speculating: The reveal (and/or twist) has to involve a FATHER, to them. Ben can't stay bad, because the bad guy has to be redeemed. So on and so forth.

It really seems like most of the storytelling in Star Wars since the transition to new leadership has been about changing those "rules" and tweaking the notions of what you can and can't do with the storytelling. For as much as everyone's made fun of "it's like poetry, it rhymes," a lot of the speculation relies heavily on adhering to simply finding a new way to do the same shit you already saw precisely because it rhymes! Stuff that posits it could go a different direction, or take a different branching path in the same general direction gets dismissed out-of-hand.



Maybe? Maybe only one of her parents was strong? Maybe it was suppressed because her gramma was scared they'd get killed if it came out? Maybe it just never got tapped into?



Who said anything about giving their kid to Luke? They gave their kid to Unkar Plutt.



Ah-haaaaa

It's just a really stupid idea, even more so if it's supposed to be clear, and it would be such a waste of time for your average audience, most of who don't even know who the heck is Obi Wan anymore. This is making everything more complicated than necessary.

But I also think the writer(s) on VIII are screwed, people think Rey is Luke's daughter, and also that she isn't and her family just left her. So one way or another people will be confused when either is revealed because it won't fit with what they think VII hinted at. They can't just go forward and move on, because people are confused.

 

[Tookay]

I'm with Bobby here. I feel like everything in TFA suggests that Luke isn't Rey's father, and, further, that Rey's parentage doesn't really matter at all.

This Episode 8 spoiler dry spell has been rough, though. It felt like we knew way more about TFA at this point than whatever Rian Johnson's doing. I guess the leaks from fired art department people contributed more to our knowledge of TFA than I realized.

But Kaneda's hinting has my interest piqued. Maybe the floodgates will start to open soon...

Spoiler

I need more Kaneda, especially about Luke.

 

[Machina]

"These are your first steps..."

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It's just a really stupid idea

Nah

 

[Nester99]

Han is the father, Leia is not the mother tho, hence the tension.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Not that Hamill and company were bad actors, it's just their new dialogue combined with Rian is going to make it feel like more of a "real" film, if that makes sense. It's what I've always wanted. I called it realistic fantasy, just didn't think I'd get it with SW.

I'm genuinely excited to see Hamill in Episode 8. He has come a long way as a performer since the OT but most of that is obviously under the radar for general audience. I have a feeling that people are going to be pleasantly shocked by the performance that he gives.

 

[Discotheque]

Reys father is dead but he uploaded his consciousness into BB-8 to watch over her

Bb-8 is your father twist coming next star wars movie

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Her two dads are Luke and Han. The first half of the movie is her connecting with her first dad, Han, and then the second half is her trying to find her last and final dad (Luke). I thought this was pretty clear throughout.

 

[FriendlyGoat]

It may be worth noting that in TFA she vaguely refers to her "family", not necessarily her "parents", and Maz simply refers to them as "whomever". I also don't get the impression that Rey has forgotten her family or anything, which really opens up the possibilities for speculation. Her "family" might not even be her parentage, they really left that open.

 

[bishopcruz]

If her parents are nobody we know then a whole lot of time was wasted on them. Way too much time. It's like a masked villain, you don't have one unless the person under the mask is someone either the audience, or the characters would know, usually both. If it happens to be neither, you get them out of the mask quickly because it creates unnecessary mystery that is unimportant to the story at hand. If her parents weren't important we should have SEEN them in the flashback. We didn't, fairly major efforts were made to hide who they were, that, along with the passing of a lightsaber that was never THAT big a deal in the first place, sets up Luke as her father. If he's not, its a lot more red herrings than I like in a story where the mystery isn't the main thrust.

 

[sphagnum]

Again, grain of salt etc.

Spoiler

Apparently they only have one scene together face to face and it's gut wrenching. This scene is a transition and seeing as how both of them are in 9, obviously Luke doesn't kill him. You feel for Luke and Ben more than any other characters.

Which is why the thought that "Ben can't be the only Skywalker because he's bad!" is bullshit. I think he's more interesting than Rey, sorry.

Before I believe this, I still want to know what you were talking about with this Rogue One stuff:

All that Reddit shit was so fake too. Sure it's a dark war movie but MAJOR SPOILER Vader is barely in it and he only goes ham in one scene (so I've heard). It's the Mendelsohn shit and the seppuku scene that probably scared the shit out of Disney. Like I said, there's stuff in this movie that I've heard about that's stuff we've never seen in a SW movie.

Do you really want to know? It's a spy kneeling in front of Vader. He gets info from a captured character and goes ham on a couple others without breaking a sweat. Mendelsohn Is the wicked, cruel one. Apparently he gives no fucks.

Whitaker's character might get the most hits on Vader too which is why he changes his armor but I heard his character bites it in a cruel, never been done in Star Wars kinda way.

I mean I know that Rogue One had reshoots but something isn't matching up here.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

]If her parents are nobody we know then a whole lot of time was wasted on them.[/B] Way too much time. It's like a masked villain, you don't have one unless the person under the mask is someone either the audience, or the characters would know, usually both. If it happens to be neither, you get them out of the mask quickly because it creates unnecessary mystery that is unimportant to the story at hand. If her parents weren't important we should have SEEN them in the flashback. We didn't, fairly major efforts were made to hide who they were, that, along with the passing of a lightsaber that was never THAT big a deal in the first place, sets up Luke as her father. If he's not, its a lot more red herrings than I like in a story where the mystery isn't the main thrust.

It's also possible her parents are someone we don't know yet but who will be introduced and become major characters over the next 2 films.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If her parents are nobody we know then a whole lot of time was wasted on them.

How much time was really wasted on them in the movie, though? They exist as her tether to Jakku, a tether she keeps meaning to follow back but never does, and then breaks it intentionally in the final third.

The amount of time being wasted on this is 100% on the fandom and the media feeding that fandom's misplaced curiosity. It's not really all that wasted in the storytelling itself.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

This thread got me hyped for episode 8.

 

[Cranster]

I wish the Obi Wan being her father theory would just die, she is too young to be his daughter. Her being a Skywalker makes much more sense as the series is about the Skywalker legacy.

 

[Symphonic]

I wish the Obi Wan being her father theory would just die, she is too young to be his daughter. Her being a Skywalker makes much more sense as the series is about the Skywalker legacy.

Which Kylo is trying to carry. Could easily be his struggle as a focus just as much as hers.

 

[7Th]

I know from some good sources that she is a Force baby like Anakin.

Which Kylo is trying to carry. Could easily be his struggle as a focus just as much as hers.

The only problem with Ben being the single Skywalker is if they're going to actually let him survive; as the story has been set up, I see a heroic sacrifice as the only possible redemption for his character.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I wish the Obi Wan being her father theory

That's never been the theory, though.

Like, it's addressed specifically on this page. Speaking of which:

I see a heroic sacrifice as the only possible redemption for his character.

Why does he need to be redeemed? Why is that such an automatic that even considering the possiblity he won't be is out the window?

 

[LegalEagleMike]

You do not kill Han Solo and get to be redeemed.

 

[sphagnum]

You do not kill Han Solo and get to be redeemed.

Why not? Anakin murdered tons of people.

I'd rather have Ben not be redeemed so it's not a total retread of his story though.

 

[bishopcruz]

You do not kill Han Solo and get to be redeemed.

Murder children, you're ok. Murder Han, fuck off and die. LOL.

 

[7Th]

Why does he need to be redeemed? Why is that such an automatic that even considering the possiblity he won't be is out the window?

Then he dies either way so the result is the same; the Skywalker legacy is done.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

Murder children, you're ok. Murder Han, fuck off and die. LOL.

Pretty much yes

 

[Symphonic]

Would love for it to flip and Rey go over to the dark side and have to fight Ben after he's redeemed. Would be a fun twist and would fuck with audiences.

 

[Killer Queen]

How much time was really wasted on them in the movie, though? They exist as her tether to Jakku, a tether she keeps meaning to follow back but never does, and then breaks it intentionally in the final third.

The amount of time being wasted on this is 100% on the fandom and the media feeding that fandom's misplaced curiosity. It's not really all that wasted in the storytelling itself.

Pretty much.

 

[Lifejumper]

Before I believe this, I still want to know what you were talking about with this Rogue One stuff:







I mean I know that Rogue One had reshoots but something isn't matching up here.

Oh man. Getting Verendus flashbacks.

 

[DSN2K]

She's a Kenobi IMO, she's here to put another Skywalker in check

 

[Mariolee]

Just got into this thread. Ya'll talking about how Sabine is Rey's mother?

 

[gatti-man]

Would love for it to flip and Rey go over to the dark side and have to fight Ben after he's redeemed. Would be a fun twist and would fuck with audiences.

Would also be terrible and dumb

 

[FriendlyGoat]

Then he dies either way so the result is the same; the Skywalker legacy is done.

Then there might be a satisfying conclusion to a trilogy of trilogies.

But still, say Rey isn't Kylo's cousin, why can't he still have a cousin? Who said Luke didn't reproduce? There's a lot of ground they can cover with 4.5 hours + expanded content. For all we know, Kylo Ren might himself have a wife and kids.

 

[MMarston]

One big reason Rey's parents are best off being nobodies is that it emphasizes how much family and hope can be found through others with an enduring bond - not something bound by some blood legacy. This is especially since one subtle narrative theme I've recognized in TFA is how much people have personally lost before even getting any chance to defend themselves.
Rey and Finn lost their parents very early on
Poe lost his mom (yeah EU stuff etc)
Ben - I'm hypothesizing - never got the ideal childhood he wanted given how much contempt he has for his father, mother and uncle with all the boarding school Jedi crap.

Thus, you get this sense that to endure, you have to deal with the hand your dealt with whoever can help you - looking back at the past is worthless. You need to build a better tommorow. In Maz's words, "The belonging you seek is not behind you. It is ahead."

 

[Symphonic]

Would also be terrible and dumb

Cool, thanks for the input

 

[Kaneda Shotaro]

Before I believe this, I still want to know what you were talking about with this Rogue One stuff:







I mean I know that Rogue One had reshoots but something isn't matching up here.

Everything there is accurate, only one scene was changed from the script.

Vader was on Jedha and instead of giving information to him, Saw tries to fight back as a distraction for the team to escape. He doesn't get far. Vader gives him a choice, Saw kills himself instead with Vader's light saber, Krennic only visited Vader on Mustafar to apologize, Tarkin only mentions he might've been on the planet after the test. That's why it makes less sense for Krennic to go there personally in the film now.

As far as Krennic being cruel, it was in reference to destroying the city before even some of his men could leave. This was a darker film and I suppose Disney was right, more levity.

And the guy who spoke to Vader was with the rebels, he was a nod to the line "spies everywhere". Maybe the film was too long so they cut out his little scene? Not sure.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Cool, thanks for the input

He's right though.

I mean, seriously, who the fuck wants to watch this sour, pissy, hyper-entitled little school shooter wind up being forced into the role of redemptive hero to save the universe from the evil bitch who went bad as soon as she was given an opportunity to be a force for good in the universe?

Who the fuck would want to watch that.

why?

The genocidal wet sack of crap who does the right thing ONCE after 40+ years of asshattery was the story of the LAST SIX MOVIES. Why are we eager to repeat that for the next three?

Everything there is accurate, only one scene was changed from the script.

Vader was on Jedha and instead of giving information to him, Saw tries to fight back as a distraction for the team to escape. He doesn't get far. Vader gives him a choice, Saw kills himself instead with Vader's light saber, Krennic only visited Vader on Mustafar to apologize, Tarkin only mentions he might've been on the planet after the test. That's why it makes less sense for Krennic to go there personally in the film now.

As far as Krennic being cruel, it was in reference to destroying the city before even some of his men could leave. This was a darker film and I suppose Disney was right, more levity.

What is this.

Where did you hear any of this?

 

[The Lone Courier]

It's C3PO right?

 

[MMarston]

He's right though.

I mean, seriously, who the fuck wants to watch this sour, pissy, hyper-entitled little school shooter wind up being forced into the role of redemptive hero to save the universe from the evil bitch who went bad as soon as she was given an opportunity to be a force for good in the universe?

Who the fuck would want to watch that.

why?

Let's not forget the marketing nightmare Lucasfilm and Disney would be in for if that were to happen.

 

[bonesmccoy]

For Luke to be the dad, he must have never introduced her to his sister, her uncle, her cousin, her uncle's huge hairy BFF, a pair of droid bros, and she would have never ever heard him use his real name or asked him what her last name was.

She'd also have to have been afflicted with an awful case memory loss/space madness to have completely forgotten what her dad looked like.

Most importantly, the story writer would have had to have also been afflicted with an awful case of memory loss/space madness to have written a turd like that.

I think her folks were just a couple of assholes who dumped her with Unkar.

 

[Ether_Snake]

It may be worth noting that in TFA she vaguely refers to her "family", not necessarily her "parents", and Maz simply refers to them as "whomever". I also don't get the impression that Rey has forgotten her family or anything, which really opens up the possibilities for speculation. Her "family" might not even be her parentage, they really left that open.

Yeah, could have been brothers and sisters, uncles or whatever. Whatever the case, it's dumb that we don't know what Rey herself knows.

Also, in her vision, I still think it looks like whoever is the guy with the hat looks like he is about to club someone to death, and Kylo kills him before he can do so. It's possible that all the knights of Ren are former followers of Luke that he recruited/corrupted, and the guy with the hat tried to kill the kid so Kylo wouldn't get his hands on him.

But yeah Rey is too young when all that happens, so whatever. It's a mess.

For Luke to be the dad, he must have never introduced her to his sister, her uncle, her cousin, her uncle's huge hairy BFF, a pair of droid bros, and she would have never ever heard him use his real name or asked him what her last name was.

She'd also have to have been afflicted with an awful case memory loss/space madness to have completely forgotten what her dad looked like.

Most importantly, the story writer would have had to have also been afflicted with an awful case of memory loss/space madness to have written a turd like that.

I think her folks were just a couple of assholes who dumped her with Unkar.

I think that's the most logical view, but people have a hard time accepting that Rey magically becomes so powerful without being related to Obi-Wan or Luke.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Yeah, she's Luke's kid. That was pretty obvious and I don't even think they intended for it to be this mystery that the fans have made it out to be.

Who's going to be the mom?

For Luke to be the dad, he must have never introduced her to his sister, her uncle, her cousin, her uncle's huge hairy BFF, a pair of droid bros, and she would have never ever heard him use his real name or asked him what her last name was.

She'd also have to have been afflicted with an awful case memory loss/space madness to have completely forgotten what her dad looked like.

Most importantly, the story writer would have had to have also been afflicted with an awful case of memory loss/space madness to have written a turd like that.

I think her folks were just a couple of assholes who dumped her with Unkar.

I still think it's more likely she's a Kenobi. I mean, being Luke's daughter makes literally no sense. Who the hell is the mom?

 

[Kaneda Shotaro]

He's right though.

I mean, seriously, who the fuck wants to watch this sour, pissy, hyper-entitled little school shooter wind up being forced into the role of redemptive hero to save the universe from the evil bitch who went bad as soon as she was given an opportunity to be a force for good in the universe?

Who the fuck would want to watch that.

why?

The genocidal wet sack of crap who does the right thing ONCE after 40+ years of asshattery was the story of the LAST SIX MOVIES. Why are we eager to repeat that for the next three?



What is this.

Where did you hear any of this?

Same guys for 8. Most of the reshoots were for Saw and then additional stuff for KS20. Disney didn't want a character killing themselves and I'm wondering if that even made it to set. It caused quite the controversy and made them rethink some of the film.

 

[Lifejumper]

Same guys for 8. Most of the reshoots were for Saw and then additional stuff for KS20. Disney didn't want a character killing themselves and I'm wondering if that even made it to set. It caused quite the controversy and made them rethink some of the film.

That scene sure sounds baller as fuck.
EDIT: and surely you mean LucasFilm right?

 

[TheXbox]

I was 99% sure it was Luke until that stupid Bloodline book fucked everything up. Now I'm 95% sure. I'd like to see some people who actually read it weigh in, but everyone seems to be speculating based on who they think her parents should be, rather than what the film and the book actually suggest.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Same guys for 8. Most of the reshoots were for Saw and then additional stuff for KS20. Disney didn't want a character killing themselves and I'm wondering if that even made it to set. It caused quite the controversy and made them rethink some of the film.

None of this sounds right, though.

 

[makingmusic476]

Who's going to be the mom?



I still think it's more likely she's a Kenobi. I mean, being Luke's daughter makes literally no sense. Who the hell is the mom?