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Dark Souls 3 Story and Lore Discussion [Unmarked Spoilers]

Noray said:
I think we can definitely put to rest that the Deep and the Abyss are the same. I mean I was already there. The Abyss was literally born out of Humanity - Manus, Primeval Man.
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They are not the same, but I think a lot of confusion comes from people also conflating Deep and deep sea mentioned by aldritch's items. Deep is just a location descriptor.

While the deep sea and alrditch/eldritch(lol) are just a huge homage to lovecraft.

Aldritch is actually a mix of Cthulu and the mad prophet Abdul, a priest awaiting and maybe in some way preparing the world(by devouring old gods and amassing strength)for the coming of a new age of deep sea and the arrival of old(I guess in this case older gods) and also a man with a cravenous lust for knowledge and power no matter the cost. Now whether that's reffering to bloodborne which is also heavily influenced by lovecraft or the new direction for the souls series, time will tell.
 
So my conclusion with Aldritch and Gwyndolin is that:

He ate Gwyndolin's dying body or just his corpse at some point (if I recall he was sickly to begin with even in DS1, and even if we take it that the Chosen Undead did not, in fact, kill him, he was likely to die sooner or later). Yorshka was to be the imprisoned god that Aldritch was to eventually feast upon had the Host of Embers not killed him. Also, given the other lore in the Scythe and Yorshka's position, I am left to wonder, is she the child of Priscilla and Gwyndolin? Seems like it to me, otherwise I have no idea where she'd come from or how she'd have the features of Priscilla. Or why the consumption of Gwyndolin led to visions of Priscilla.

Also Gwyndolin gave Yorshka her name... like a dad would.

Also, I gather that the Silver Knights remaining are there for Yorshka, since they would most certainly not be doing anything to serve Aldritch or Pontiff, and their drop of accords kind makes it sound like it. That or they are just all that's left of Anor Londo's defenders and are still there to protect what little is left of its sanctity.
 
Guys i know close to nothing about DS3 lore but are there 0 chances that
Aldrich is the Chosen Undead from DS1 gone mad?
 
LeleSocho said:
Guys i know close to nothing about DS3 lore but are there 0 chances that
Aldrich is the Chosen Undead from DS1 gone mad?
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He could be, but then again he could also be the guy from DS2, all we know is that Aldritch is a man. Granted it seems strange that someone as powerful as the chosen undead would just decide to become a priest. Also no need for spoiler tags in the spoiler thread guys
 
Ghostmaster said:
He could be, but then again he could also be the guy from DS2, all we know is that Aldritch is a man. Granted it seems strange that someone as powerful as the chosen undead would just decide to become a priest. Also no need for spoiler tags in the spoiler thread guys
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He came from Irithyl, so its a bit hard for him to be either the Chosen Undead or the King.
 
Ghostmaster said:
Oh yeah, forgot about that part.
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The Chosen and the King are hard to find, and I think we may simply have to write them off as embers that kindled the fire and that's that. Obviously none of the "dark" paths are canon since the dark keeps failing to consume the world. At best, I'd say they are part of Cinders. Of course, when all is said and done, one can't help but realize that poor Vendrick was the only one who ever realized what was going on...

LeleSocho said:
It's been a while since i last played DS1 but isn't it implied that the Chosen Undead doesn't come from Lordran but from an unknown place?
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Irithyl didn't exist in DS1.
 
Vena said:
The Chosen and the King are hard to find, and I think we may simply have to write them off as embers that kindled the fire and that's that. Obviously none of the "dark" paths are canon since the dark keeps failing to consume the world. At best, I'd say they are part of Cinders.



Irithyl didn't exist in DS1.
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Isn't the entire story of DS2 aimed at showing that it doesn't matter whether you choose light or dark someone will eventually light the fire? So the dark endings could be canon? The only huge ending kerfuffle is with all the aldia stuff, which is weird since they added it the latest and is not addressed at all in DS3. I guess it's just meant as a hint for the usurp the fire ending
 
Ghostmaster said:
Isn't the entire story of DS2 aimed at showing that it doesn't matter whether you choose light or dark someone will eventually light the fire. So the dark endings could be canon. The only huge ending kerfuffle is with all the aldia stuff, which is weird since they added it the latest and is not addressed at all in DS3
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King is the one who defeats Hollowing (the Queens, the Crowns, all of it had to do with Dark, Hollowing and Humanity, so however you choose to look at it) by gathering the crowns as Vendrick had planned but failed to do so in his weakness before fleeing from the Queen with Velstadt. And in DS3, hollowing is largely absent unless you fall to the Dark and the Dark Sigil (and get your own Queen/King, depending on gender). So while, ya, it is irrelevant, the way that DS3 is laid out I do think that at least the King had to have sat on the throne or someone else did the exact same thing some time later.

The Chosen is, of course, the one responsible for starting the whole cycle of cinders after killing Gwyn and all the original lords, regardless of what you chose at the end as well.

Or I guess we could just blame Gwyn for it, since Cinders is basically a shadow of him.
 
So, what's the difference between Undead and being an Ashen One? I'm still really early, but I'm not sure what being an Ashen One really is versus a Chosen Undead. Do I not go Hollow?

Is the Undead Curse already broken at this point? I didn't check if I had the Dark Sign
 
John Harker said:
So, what's the difference between Undead and being an Ashen One? I'm still really early, but I'm not sure what being an Ashen One really is GS a Chosen Undead. Do I not go Hallow?
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You can't hollow unless you get touched by dark later in the game.
 
Riposte said:
Is there any evidence within DSIII of the fire ever going out (i.e., Age of Dark happening at any point)?
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The End of Fire ending implies that if the Age of Dark ever happen it would be temporary. After receiving the eyes, the Firekeeper states that she sees tiny embers in the darkness. So, even if the First Flame vanishes, one day it will return.
20160418002713_1ussea.jpg
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It's explicitly said in her dialogue that Gwyndolin is Yorshka's "elder brother".

There is no indication within the lore that Aldrich is the player character from 1. He has his own lore that doesn't intertwine with actions of the PC. If the DS1 PC resides anywhere, it's the Soul of Cinder.
 
SargerusBR said:
The End of Fire ending implies that if the Age of Dark ever happen it would be temporary. After receiving the eyes, the Firekeeper states that she sees tiny embers in the darkness. So, even if the First Flame vanishes, one day it will return.
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I'm asking if Dark Souls III has any implication that has happened before.
 
The ring that Ludleth drops upon death, the Skull Ring, has an interesting description.

"The Soulfeeder was a beast that insatiably absorbed souls to feed its own power. Even after its accursed corpse was burned, it is said that the pungent stench of souls left the air permanently stained."

I think that the Soulfeeder it references may possibly be Ludleth himself, especially considering he's basically a charred corpse, doesn't drop a soul (could have been consumed when the linking process started), that he's an exile (either of his own accord or forced), and mentions seizing one's desires, despite how nefarious it may be (he either chose to become a Lord of cinder and devoured souls to do so, or he had an insatiable desire to become powerful, which may actually be the same thing). When it mentions that the corpse was burned, it's describing him linking the fire as an Undead.

As a side note, the stench of souls is an indirect reference to DS2, as the talking cat mentions your aroma becoming stronger as you absorb Lord Souls. See, DS2 does matter! :P

I'm not sure if this speculation is novel/obvious/dumb, so what do y'all think?
 
Maybe I've missed a description somewhere, but is there anything that actually points to the Gwyndolin that Aldrich is eating just being Gwyndolin's corpse? People keep bringing up that it's probably just his dead body and that it's probably canon that he was killed by the PC in DS1, but all descriptions of Aldrich point to him specifically eating people that are alive and struggling/screaming. I took the whole thing to mean that he's just been slowly devouring a very much alive Gwyndolin for quite some time now and that Yorshka is likely next on the menu once he's done.

Small detail, I know, but I'm curious whether or not the one god left in Anor Londo met an with an honorable fate or an unspeakable horrible, immensely painful one.
 
Omega Ultimus said:
The ring that Ludleth drops upon death, the Skull Ring, has an interesting description.

"The Soulfeeder was a beast that insatiably absorbed souls to feed its own power. Even after its accursed corpse was burned, it is said that the pungent stench of souls left the air permanently stained."

I think that the Soulfeeder it references may possibly be Ludleth himself, especially considering he's basically a charred corpse, doesn't drop a soul (could have been consumed when the linking process started), that he's an exile (either of his own accord or forced), and mentions seizing one's desires, despite how nefarious it may be (he either chose to become a Lord of cinder and devoured souls to do so, or he had an insatiable desire to become powerful, which may actually be the same thing). When it mentions that the corpse was burned, it's describing him linking the fire as an Undead.

As a side note, the stench of souls is an indirect reference to DS2, as the talking cat mentions your aroma becoming stronger as you absorb Lord Souls. See, DS2 does matter! :P

I'm not sure if this speculation is novel/obvious/dumb, so what do y'all think?
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I think this is just the item that ludleth refers to when he first talks to you about the transpostion kiln, and whem he mentions that transpostion was banned beacuse of a terrible creation/or something along those lines.
 
I'm pretty sure Soul of Cinder is the chosen undead from DS1 based off his armor and moveset and that he does the flip-roll. His magic isn't exclusive to him they're all spells that have always been available to the player.
 
Killer Queen said:
I'm pretty sure Soul of Cinder is the chosen undead from DS1 based off his armor and moveset and that he does the flip-roll. His magic isn't exclusive to him they're all spells that have always been available to the player.
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In the soul description it actually mentions that the soul of cinder is an amalgamation of all those that have previously linked the fire
 
Killer Queen said:
I'm pretty sure Soul of Cinder is the chosen undead from DS1 based off his armor and moveset and that he does the flip-roll. His magic isn't exclusive to him they're all spells that have always been available to the player.
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I just figured he was essentially the embodiment of everyone whose linked the fire thus far. Phase one is your lords of cinder who have carried on the tradition, phase two being Gwyn who started it all. Kind of hard to have it point to the PC as everyone's turned out different by the end of the game and a ton chose not to link it at all.

Edit:
Ghostmaster said:
In the soul description it actually mentions that the soul of cinder is an amalgamation of all those that have previously linked the fire
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Even better! I had only beaten him in the Japanese version so I never got to read his soul's description.
 
TheCthultist said:
Maybe I've missed a description somewhere, but is there anything that actually points to the Gwyndolin that Aldrich is eating just being Gwyndolin's corpse? People keep bringing up that it's probably just his dead body and that it's probably canon that he was killed by the PC in DS1, but all descriptions of Aldrich point to him specifically eating people that are alive and struggling/screaming. I took the whole thing to mean that he's just been slowly devouring a very much alive Gwyndolin for quite some time now and that Yorshka is likely next on the menu once he's done.

Small detail, I know, but I'm curious whether or not the one god left in Anor Londo met an with an honorable fate or an unspeakable horrible, immensely painful one.
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Huh?

It's stated by in-game that Gwyndolin was slowly devoured by Aldrich. Whether or not that's Gwyndolin's actual body sticking out of the blob (I think it is, going by the cinematic trailer) is up for discussion I suppose. I.e. Is Gwyndolin fully or half-devoured? It wouldnt really change much either way.
 
Aldritch features in the comic that shipped with my copy of the game. He starts out as human, not entirely sure if he's undead (he doesn't appear to be going mad, his companion does).

I
 
One thing that is annoying me is the difference between cinematic aldrich:
dark-souls-III-aldrich-1024x576.jpg
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and ingame aldrich:
aldritch3_tc.jpg
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Like... even the non gwydolin parts of aldrich dont look like the cinematic version, in the cinematic he looks for like the slimes found outside the boss arena. Much more... gloopy and jelly like. Part of me presumes its just a technical thing but I dunno, its odd.

You can see bones and maggots in his tail too, and he is a LOT smaller than the cinematic version.

I wonder if he is dying?
 
Ok, I'm not totally sure what you're on about.

- Aldrich is mid way through devouring Gwyndolin. Aldrich is a gelatinous blob, the figure you see in the boss fight is Gwyndolin. His tail where you focus your attacks is his true form.

- If you're talking about graphical fidelity. No, the movements of the blob were never goign to look like that.
 
Auctopus said:
Ok, I'm not totally sure what you're on about.

- Aldrich is mid way through devouring Gwyndolin. Aldrich is a gelatinous blob, the figure you see in the boss fight is Gwyndolin. His tail where you focus your attacks is his true form.

- If you're talking about graphical fidelity. No, the movements of the blob were never goign to look like that.
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I mean watch the intro when he pours out of his coffin/tomb - then look how huge that coffin/tomb is ingame. In the boss fight the true part of aldrich is this small blob tail, he's like 1/10th his size.

Again, it could be a gameplay decision which is understandable but I dunno, when they have huge dragons and giants its odd that he isn't huge.
 
tamaster92 said:
I mean watch the intro when he pours out of his coffin/tomb - then look how huge that coffin/tomb is ingame. In the boss fight the true part of aldrich is this small blob tail, he's like 1/10th his size.

Again, it could be a gameplay decision which is understandable but I dunno, when they have huge dragons and giants its odd that he isn't huge.
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Oh right, I get what you mean. Yeah, it's probably a limitation. Then again, that shot from the cinematic trailer isn't within the CotD, I don't think.
 
Yeah i dont understand your aldritch post the maggots are the things in CoD and the gaping dragon style bones can be seen on the dogs/spider fucks , theres probably interesting connections to be made given where you find these guys.

But as far as the opening cinematic goes, care need to be taken when interrupting it, Boreal valley is crumbled in the OC, i had assumed it was because it hadnt been built yet initially, but why would the pope statues be there if this was so?

I think the opening cinematic is really important, when it gets to the bit "nameless accursed undead bit" the red knight is dragging along someone and if you kill the firekeeper at the end of the game, the opening cinematic dialogue "nameless accursed undead bit" beings playing.

Also note the dialogue, "when the link of fire is threatened", not when the fire is fading.
 
Also what is the Smouldering Lake arbalest-thing?

You'd think it was brought in to kill that giant worm but it doesn't target it, it's operated by (well, was operated by) giants, and they are dead?

deep..
 
Why are there three firelink shrines?There is the first one,then there is the Kiln of the First Flame and then there is the one after Champion Gundyr.

What about the the lady we give ash to buy new things.Why is she on the other shrine as well?
 
ponpo said:
Also what is the Smouldering Lake arbalest-thing?

You'd think it was brought in to kill that giant worm but it doesn't target it, it's operated by (well, was operated by) giants, and they are dead?

deep..
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Is there any evidence its related to the deep?
Giants are defiantly up to something, i assume they were trying to protect anor londo... However the hawk archer wont attack you if your wearing the Evangelist hat, which makes me think when they left the cathedral for the undead settlment at the time giants were allies with the cathedral.
 
GwyndolinCinder said:
However the hawk archer wont attack you if your wearing the Evangelist hat, which makes me think when they left the cathedral for the undead settlment at the time giants were allies with the cathedral.
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Ha, didn't know that. Another cool reference to Demon's Souls in a way.
 
So anyway.

1ilsta.jpg


Wargod Wooden Shield said:
Wooden shield reinforced with metal. The largest of the wooden medium shields.

The bizarre pattern featured on the shield is the mark of a mad god, revered as a god of war in remote regions.
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Hmm.


BELIEVE

2yus1i.jpg
 
Couple of small things:

95cacd97d2.jpg


Any idea whose grave it is?


ab23198de9.jpg
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Note the sticks creeping out from under their shells - I am almost certain now that these pilgrims turn into the butterflys. It has to be related to the weird men turned into trees too.

455eab8d3a.jpg
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The city to the left is almost certainly lothric - the architecture is the exact same as when you look at Lothric from a distance.
 
tamaster92 said:
Couple of small things:

95cacd97d2.jpg


Any idea whose grave it is?




Note the sticks creeping out from under their shells - I am almost certain now that these pilgrims turn into the butterflys. It has to be related to the weird men turned into trees too.



The city to the left is almost certainly lothric - the architecture is the exact same as when you look at Lothric from a distance.
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1. No idea but it sounds like its describing Untended Graves: No visitors, it's dark and warriors rest there.

2. I'm not totally on board with that. It's just sticks. But it's the most we have right now so who knows?

3. Yeah, I don't know why this is even a debate. You can see Lothric Castle.
 
tamaster92 said:
One thing that is annoying me is the difference between cinematic aldrich:


and ingame aldrich:


Like... even the non gwydolin parts of aldrich dont look like the cinematic version, in the cinematic he looks for like the slimes found outside the boss arena. Much more... gloopy and jelly like. Part of me presumes its just a technical thing but I dunno, its odd.

You can see bones and maggots in his tail too, and he is a LOT smaller than the cinematic version.

I wonder if he is dying?
Click to expand...

On a related note, Yhorm seems very much like a DS2-style giant in the cinematic, but totally isn't when you actually fight him.
 
tamaster92 said:
Note the sticks creeping out from under their shells - I am almost certain now that these pilgrims turn into the butterflys. It has to be related to the weird men turned into trees too.
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There's so many connections betweek the Dark / Trees / Ash / Hollows.

You're the Champion of Ash, especially for Yoel and Yuria, whose goal is to make you the Lord of Hollows.
That detail you've noted on the pilgrims.
The Great Hollow arch-tree in DS1. In the Ash Lake.
Hollows turning into trees and other hollows worshipping them.
The Pilgrim Butterflies look very tree-like. I don't think they're necessarily "evolved" Pilgrims though, but there's definitely similarities and a connection. The whole butterfly thing is probably significant too, as if there are some for each "side" in this story. Moonlight Butterfly in DS1, Flame butterfly in DS2, and now Pilgrim (hollow) Butterflies in DS3.
Sulyvahn, who's trying its best to prevent the linking of the fire, gets wings in his second phase that look exactly like the butterflies.
 
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