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[Killer Queen]

The pilgrims were those guys trying to get to Lothric with the things on their backs right? Maybe that's significant.

 

[Raist]

Alright I'm going to throw a wild theory out here, and you guys can feel free to pick it apart. It's less a theory, and more a hunch that this might be what is going on. In any case, feel free to vehemently disagree.

One thing I couldn't make sense of story-wise this time through was the "True Firelink Shrine" area. The pitch black lighting to me seems to indicate that this is some sort of surreal experience, as does the fact that you are accessing a literal duplicate of another location in the game. However, you transition into this area via normal gameplay, and all of the items you pick up in this surreal area are actual items that stay on your character afterwards. The same is true of the Dragon Shrine area, which you seem to be accessing via meditation, and hence items you pick up there should not be accessible afterwards either, though in fact, they are. One final indication of something amiss is the Kiln of the First Flame at the end of the game. When you look around that area, you see the ruins of many other kingdoms, all on some supernatural decline into...well whatever lies at the bottom of the cliff you are atop. These and other things present a bit of a conundrum and they are what indicates to me that something is drastically off with our perception of the world in the game if we believe it is presenting a realistic occurrence of something in a real (though obviously fictitious) world.

Here's my theory: your character in each of the DS series of games is actually a person who really died in a real kingdom, likely one of those referenced in the game. I know that there are these references about being born with a dark sign and what not, but essentially, I say, disregard that. Your character lived a normal life in one of these kingdoms but he died, and what you are experiencing throughout the game is actually that character's experience of the afterlife. I'm not saying the dark sign doesn't have relevance -- rather, it doesn't mean literally what you are made to think it means by the game. It isn't a literal reality, but symbolizes something, or is a reality inflicted upon your reality by the outside. More on that later.

Now, in many different religions and cultures, the perception of the afterlife is that the spirit of a person leaves the body, and experiences in the afterlife occur in this disembodied state. The narrative sequence of the games that you play through is, then, a construction of your character's own disembodied spirit -- he sees what he/she wants to see, and makes of the world what he/she wants to make it. What would it be like to interact with other disembodied spirits in your own disembodied state, though? Well, I propose that you actually do just that when you interact with other NPCs and players in the world. Each of those other people have their own self-constructed reality which is subtly different than your own, and which you may participate in when you engage in jolly cooperation or invasions. They may have bosses alive that you do not, they may have performed or not performed different actions on the world that have a different effect on it than you did. Their world is their own, unique from yours, and you simply step into it, experiencing what it is like to be in their reality.

This makes sense of the "canon" NPC invasions in this game, some of which are real head scratchers if you think that the game is presenting a coherent depiction of a static reality. For instance, in your world, you have killed the rotting greatwood, and at the bottom of the pit of hollows is Hodrick's corpse. Yet, you are summoned into Sirris's world after you have done this, a world where Hodrick is still alive. WTF? Well it makes sense if her world is a distinctly different reality than yours. In your world, Leonhard doesn't exist in Gwynevere's room, yet in his reality he does.

So -- what about all this stuff about linking the bonfire and making choices to become a dark lord? Well, I think it is somehow symbolic, it is representing a choice the spirit of your character may make within his/her distinct reality. Perhaps linking the bonfire symbolizes that the spirit wishes to remain disembodied and in his/her current state, while to become a dark lord symbolizes -- something else? I'm not sure. There are quite a few unanswered questions this all raises, but it does make sense of some of the data much better than theories which posit the world of the game as a reality. Oh, finally, regarding the locations in the game, and the bosses, etc., I think they may or may not have been real things from the character's life, or they may represent distinct realities which are being forced upon the spirit from the outside -- i.e. other characters, or some other force is pushing them into the created reality of your character.

Yeah I dunno. Have to brush off the Dark Sign for this to work seems a bit much.

As for the "normal gameplay" note, the thing is, who's to say the Cemetary of Ash and Firelink Shrine are in the same time/world than the rest of the game? You can't reach anything without warping via the FS bonfire.

And the fact that UG and "True Firelink" look identical doesn't bother me either if you accept that it's a parallel world. Invasion isn't just some gameplay mechanic, it's entirely part of the story and lore. You're literally going to a different world than yours.

 

[burntchomsky]

As for the "normal gameplay" note, the thing is, who's to say the Cemetary of Ash and Firelink Shrine are in the same time/world than the rest of the game? You can't reach anything without warping via the FS bonfire.

Hmmm that's interesting, I didn't think of that. You are right, that would definitely be another way to make sense of the data.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Couldn't the young, pale girl in hiding in the dream be Gwyindolin himself? Like his/her "true self"? Since you know, raised as a girl, dressed as one and all.

Na gwyndolin doesnt have gender issuses, besides if he did it would be the male that was hiding.

 

[tamaster92]

So I just found out if you have both of the princes swords you can transpose them into a single sword.

Ludleth and the sword text tells that the two swords were once one but broken apart by a curse.

I wonder how that ties into the lore for lothrics royal family and the princes?

 

[Raist]

So I just found out if you have both of the princes swords you can transpose them into a single sword.

Ludleth and the sword text tells that the two swords were once one but broken apart by a curse.

I wonder how that ties into the lore for lothrics royal family and the princes?

Wut

Na gwyndolin doesnt have gender issuses, besides if he did it would be the male that was hiding.

Well I mean... he has boobs

 

[Easy_D]

Some better pictures of the butterfly things





Surprising details, they have ribcages on their backs, and their necks/heads are bent backwards. You can clearly see their two legs and two arms as well. Seems to support the tree hollow > pilgrim butterfly transformation

EDIT:



even better one! you can clearly see the spine and ribcage sticking out of its skin

Kinda funky we have two different forces that seem to grow out of the back and form some dragon-esque creature.

 

[Zocano]

So I just found out if you have both of the princes swords you can transpose them into a single sword.

Ludleth and the sword text tells that the two swords were once one but broken apart by a curse.

I wonder how that ties into the lore for lothrics royal family and the princes?

WHAT.

 

[Raist]

WHAT.

Yeah, pic or it didn't happen. If it did, yet another reference to DeS

 

[tamaster92]

didnt get any pics of the dialogue though

 

[Raist]

Oh shit. Northern Regalia all over again.

 

[Edzi]

Wut



Well I mean... he has boobs

Wait, what? No he doesn't. I'm pretty sure you can see his torso in one of the pics someone posted of Aldritch earlier, and he's got normal scrawny man pecs.

 

[Cruxist]

So I just found out if you have both of the princes swords you can transpose them into a single sword.

Ludleth and the sword text tells that the two swords were once one but broken apart by a curse.

I wonder how that ties into the lore for lothrics royal family and the princes?

Holy crap.

Welp, here we go. Time for someone to transpose all of the items for NG+ and see if there's any other hidden items like this.

 

[Killer Queen]

I missed getting Lorian's sword first playthrough and picked Lothrics by accident. I'd assume the twin Prince scales with int and or faith still but is Lorians still good for PVP as a Str player? Sorry if off topic.

 

[33-Hit-Combo]

Oceiros was a man...

he was a dragon man...

maybe he was just a dragon

but he was still TROGDOOOOR

Trogdor is my character name

 

[Orochinagis]

Na gwyndolin doesnt have gender issuses, besides if he did it would be the male that was hiding.

He used magic to be a woman or look more feminine in Dark Souls 1, since he was too fragile to be the main head of the family ironically he was the most loyal of the family after his big sis ragequit anor londo

 

[Noray]

LOL I assumed the Twin Princes' sword business was common knowledge by now. Funny story, Lorian's UGS was my favorite weapon on my Pyro build on the Japanese release, then when I got to NG++ Ludleth had some prompt in Japanese, I accepted not knowing what it was... RIP my favorite weapon

burntchomsky I like your read. I mean it's Souls, it's highly supportive of metaphysical interpretations (Dark Souls 2 especially so), and it's as good as anything. I mean you're never going to get any kind of "official" acknowledgement of this, but hey, whatever works for you, and it's not like we're ever going to get anything concrete on anything anyway. If I may supplement it a bit, if Linking the Flame represents "staying in the dream", as it were, letting the fire fade and the world go dark can mean acceptance of one's fate. That's even kind of how it's positioned by Kaathe and the like - it's the natural next phase of the world, the fire is being prolonged artificially.

I initially came away pretty sour on the game's ending because I linked the fire, which is like the most boring ending. The other ones are good though. Favorites in order -

1) The End of Fire
2) Usurpation
3) End of Fire + killing best girl :'(
4) Link the Fire

 

[Bowlie]

I asked a question at the OT and was directed here, maybe y'all have some interpretations:

In Irithyll, moving forward until Pontiff's fight you can sometimes see a ghost of a Pontiff Knight slowly walking, and though it's intangible it leaves a shadow on the ground.

Does that mean something at all?

 

[Edzi]

So, how do people feel like the Lord of Hollows ending differs from the End of Fire ending in terms of the flame coming back? In both cases, the flame is snuffed out, with the major difference seemingly being you actually absorbing the flame in the Lord of Hollows ending. Seems to indicate that either way, the cycle will continue right? Though maybe the next one will be more of a "fresh start" compared to the same old cycle.

Also, wouldn't an age of dark still take over regardless of snuffing the flame or absorbing it?

 

[Ghostmaster]

I feel like the usurp the fire ending just feels and looks like a worse dark ending from DS1. Not really in the lore sense, but the cinematic and feel sense.

As for the lore questions, does anyone have a clue why most of the statues near the boss in the cathedral are covered with red tapestry?

Is it because they are statues of Rosaria?, Because they are the human form of aldrich? Because they are the same statue as the one outside that a bunch of hollows are praying to, which looks like an angel with a weird head, which the rest of the angel statues and lore in the game seems to imply they are praying to the dark serpents?

I asked a question at the OT and was directed here, maybe y'all have some interpretations:

In Irithyll, moving forward until Pontiff's fight you can sometimes see a ghost of a Pontiff Knight slowly walking, and though it's intangible it leaves a shadow on the ground.

Does that mean something at all?

My only theory is that it's a shadow of one of the outrider knights, because it looks like them more than the pontiffs to me. And is meant to represent their exile from Irithyll and their impending doom. It might even be Vordt, before he lost himself in the eyes of the pontiff.

 

[Vena]

So, how do people feel like the Lord of Hollows ending differs from the End of Fire ending in terms of the flame coming back? In both cases, the flame is snuffed out, with the major difference seemingly being you actually absorbing the flame in the Lord of Hollows ending. Seems to indicate that either way, the cycle will continue right? Though maybe the next one will be more of a "fresh start" compared to the same old cycle.

Also, wouldn't an age of dark still take over regardless of snuffing the flame or absorbing it?

I think the split comes in that the fire persists in the Lord of Hollows ending, the dark has consumed it and tainted it in its entirety (as the Dark originates from flame as well). In the End of Fire ending, you have put out the flame and with it its shadow (the Dark). So there is no Dark anymore nor are there any Hollows.

And, I guess, without the fire there will no longer be any ashen or undead as that was all part of the curse since the first linking.

Of course, I have no idea what that does to the disparity of life and death. The world isn't quite reset back to trees and undying dragons.

 

[tamaster92]

So, how do people feel like the Lord of Hollows ending differs from the End of Fire ending in terms of the flame coming back? In both cases, the flame is snuffed out, with the major difference seemingly being you actually absorbing the flame in the Lord of Hollows ending. Seems to indicate that either way, the cycle will continue right? Though maybe the next one will be more of a "fresh start" compared to the same old cycle.

Also, wouldn't an age of dark still take over regardless of snuffing the flame or absorbing it?

I feel like the usurp the flame ending is supposed to show the age of hollows - not the age of dark.

Hollows become the dominant force in the world and the player becomes their God/King

 

[Vena]

I feel like the usurp the flame ending is supposed to show the age of hollows - not the age of dark.

Hollows become the dominant force in the world and the player becomes their God/King

I think its meant to be the Age of Dark, since getting that ending requires you to be an agent of Dark and be touched by and posses the Dark Sigil.

Also only way to Hollow is to be touched by Dark.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I feel like there really should have be a very definitive ending that absolutely ends the cycle and brings about the age of grey or simply the age where humans/the dark soul completely takes over and the fire is forever destroyed.

Considering this is the last game in the series that is.

 

[thequickandthedead]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but why is anor londo connected to Irithyll now? Like wtf happened to Lordran?

 

[Yurt]

Solaire of Astora, a Lord of Cinder: It is very likely that Solaire is/was a Lord of Cinder. This is because Lords of Cinder are considered those who linked the flame, and Hidetaka Miyazaki stated that in the case that Solaire is kept alive throughout the game, he goes on to link the flame in his own world, effectively making him a Lord of Cinder.

imagine fighting Solaire in one of the upcoming DLCs :lol

 

[Doop]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but why is anor londo connected to Irithyll now? Like wtf happened to Lordran?

The land itself is pulling itself together to get the lords of cinder to converge. It's probably why lothric is on a huge plateau with no outside connections. There's even a bit in an item description about the high wall "appearing".

 

[Bowlie]

My only theory is that it's a shadow of one of the outrider knights, because it looks like them more than the pontiffs to me. And is meant to represent their exile from Irithyll and their impending doom. It might even be Vordt, before he lost himself in the eyes of the pontiff.

Sorry, I thought they were called Pontiff. Yeah, the Outrider Knights' ghosts.

I was thinking something similar too, like a vision (time/space is convoluted in the game anyway) of what they were before Sulyvahn messed with their minds.

I'd have to go there again and see if the ghosts only appear inside that magic dome you enter after crossing the bridge.

edit: shit, Noray, nice catch.

 

[Noray]

imagine fighting Solaire in one of the upcoming DLCs :lol

Unless they actually make this canon in DLC, this is actually just Miyazaki headcanon lol. The author is dead and all. It's not in the game, not part of the text, if I can get all highfalutin.

Re: Pontiff Knights, I believe some description describes them as "frigid spirits that linger" or something. So I think they're all implied to be some kind of spoopy ghosts. Ah here we go: "Great scythe wielded by the Pontiff's knights, frigid spirits that linger in Irithyll."

Re: endings, in the End of Fire ending the screen goes completely dark and you hear the Firekeeper speak, so I guess the implication is it's true darkness and the flame is well and truly out, even if it may just light itself again one day and the cycle begins anew. The Lord of Hollows ending still has the fire, but as someone said, it's been tainted by humanity or something, note the color of the sun in that ending. The flame still presents, but it has been usurped. This ending can have some pretty wild implications for the future of the universe. We'll see what happens with DLC, I'm really hoping for post-ending DLC (though I think there's like a 1% chance that will happen)

 

[Ghostmaster]

Unless they actually make this canon in DLC, this is actually just Miyazaki headcanon lol. The author is dead and all. It's not in the game, not part of the text, if I can get all highfalutin.

Re: Pontiff Knights, I believe some description describes them as "frigid spirits that linger" or something. So I think they're all implied to be some kind of spoopy ghosts. Ah here we go: "Great scythe wielded by the Pontiff's knights, frigid spirits that linger in Irithyll."

Re: endings, in the End of Fire ending the screen goes completely dark and you hear the Firekeeper speak, so I guess the implication is it's true darkness and the flame is well and truly out, even if it may just light itself again one day and the cycle begins anew. The Lord of Hollows ending still has the fire, but as someone said, it's been tainted by humanity or something, note the color of the sun in that ending. The flame still presents, but it has been usurped. This ending can have some pretty wild implications for the future of the universe. We'll see what happens with DLC, I'm really hoping for post-ending DLC (though I think there's like a 1% chance that will happen)

Yeah but the specter is definitely wearing an outrider armor and not the pontiff armor. Also I think the specter actually originates from the pontiff's cathedral or palace. Which actually mirrors one of the descriptions on the outrider armor, that they are knights sent out by the pontiff outside Irithyll.

 

[Edzi]

I think the split comes in that the fire persists in the Lord of Hollows ending, the dark has consumed it and tainted it in its entirety (as the Dark originates from flame as well). In the End of Fire ending, you have put out the flame and with it its shadow (the Dark). So there is no Dark anymore nor are there any Hollows.

And, I guess, without the fire there will no longer be any ashen or undead as that was all part of the curse since the first linking.

Of course, I have no idea what that does to the disparity of life and death. The world isn't quite reset back to trees and undying dragons.

I feel like the usurp the flame ending is supposed to show the age of hollows - not the age of dark.

Hollows become the dominant force in the world and the player becomes their God/King

I suppose that all makes sense, though you becoming the Lord of Hollows sounds exactly like the dark lord of humanity Frampt had you become in DS1 (which is fitting, since he seems to have orchestrated the Lord of Hollows ending again). The primary difference is the absorbing/tainting of the fire, which I guess does seem to have some sense of finality to it.

Is there any reason why the notion of usurping the fire is an option in DS3 and not in DS1, especially considering Frampt is the one behind the scenes in both cases? Could it have something to do with the fact that the undead we control this time is first and foremost unkindled ash who has taken on hollow characteristics? Speaking of hollows and ash though, what exactly IS our character? Are there any good write ups that touch on what the whole resurrected ashen undead thing is all about?

 

[Shredderi]

I almost wish we got a sort of enigmatic full circle, nothing ever ends ending with our ashen one losing his/her headgear in a cinematic and then picking up a normal knight helmet off the ground while wandering to the rooftop of some large building, opening a hatch and then seeing an undead in a cell and then throw a key down to him/her xD Of course finality is better in the end.

 

[Edzi]

Thinking about the ending has me thinking we need another discussion about what Linking the Fire even means. Is there a definitive lore consensus regarding this term or is it kind of up in the air? I remember hearing speculation a while back that Gwyn linking the flame might have had a lot to do with why humanity (which is naturally dark) seems to bound to the fire/bonfires, and why we feed the fire souls/humanity to make it stronger in DS1. I'm not sure how much actual evidence there is behind these ideas, but perhaps the Lord of Hollows ending is more connected to undoing whatever it is Gwyn did when he initially "linked" the fire. Or maybe the Linking of the Fire was literally just him linking his Soul to the fire to keep it going. I dunno, I'm just kind of spitballing at this point while trying to figure out how I can tie everything together.

 

[Orochinagis]

Thinking about the ending has me thinking we need another discussion about what Linking the Fire even means. Is there a definitive lore consensus regarding this term or is it kind of up in the air? I remember hearing speculation a while back that Gwyn linking the flame might have had a lot to do with why humanity (which is naturally dark) seems to bound to the fire/bonfires, and why we feed the fire souls/humanity to make it stronger in DS1. I'm not sure how much actual evidence there is behind these ideas, but perhaps the Lord of Hollows ending is more connected to undoing whatever it is Gwyn did when he initially "linked" the fire. Or maybe the Linking of the Fire was literally just him linking his Soul to the fire to keep it going. I dunno, I'm just kind of spitballing at this point while trying to figure out how I can tie everything together.

Humans fuels the fire because they inherited the Dark Soul fragment in their soul thanks to pygmy so Gwyn discovered humans souls can keep the fire alive (it would require TONS of humans souls to relink the fire), humans with the dark sign are always connected to the fire now if you read the Homwward miracle.

Great miracle cast by advance clerics.
Return to last bonfire rested at.

Would normally link to one's homeland,
only the curse of the Undead has distorted
its power, redirecting casters to a bonfire.
Or perhaps for Undead, this serves as home?

Thats why Humans are the only creature to become Hollow due the dark nature of the Dark Soul, all undead have a fragment to become a Lord, it bugs me how a Giant relinked the fire in this game.

 

[Noray]

Or maybe the Linking of the Fire was literally just him linking his Soul to the fire to keep it going.

Think that's it. That's why we need all the Lord Souls to link the fire. It's basically just kindling, the same way the Lords of Cinder are in DS3. Some sufficiently powerful person always has to sacrifice themselves at the end of a cycle in order to link the fire. But this also keeps the undead curse going, somehow, I forget the specifics.

 

[tamaster92]

I feel like wood and growth is a running theme through all the game, not just the hollows.

Izalith is overgrown and covered in roots, the undead settlement worship a tree, vordts door is grown over by vines and trees, the giant tree on the coffin at IG's bonfire and many more.

I'm sure some of it is just environment design but it's interesting there is SO much tree stuff in this game.

 

[Vena]

Is there any reason why the notion of usurping the fire is an option in DS3 and not in DS1, especially considering Frampt is the one behind the scenes in both cases? Could it have something to do with the fact that the undead we control this time is first and foremost unkindled ash who has taken on hollow characteristics? Speaking of hollows and ash though, what exactly IS our character? Are there any good write ups that touch on what the whole resurrected ashen undead thing is all about?

We are undead free from the Hollow curse but still chasing the flame, as the game says in its intro: ash seeketh flame. We've always been ash seeking flame but in the games prior to Dark Souls 3 we were also touched by Dark and Humanity (quite literally a mechanic of our character that is absent in DS3). (This does get a little wonky in that there are still undead who can Hollow but all of them are "touched by Dark" as per the Anri storyline. Siegward, for instance, simply dies of his wounds in battle with his old friend. He doesn't hollow. Before DS3 everyone Hollowed.)

In DS2, the King (your character) under the guidance of Vendrick/Aldia through the Green Herald, free the undead from the curse of Hollowing. The whole of DS2 is about Hollowing, the Dark, and Malus' fragments which you destroy (and Alsanna is "forever bound" by the Ivory King in a way). Your merge the Crowns as Vendrick orchestrated, kill Natasha (since post-DLC, I'd say she's canonically the last sister you kill), and sit on the throne as the True Monarch and achieve as the Green Herald and Vendrick put forth: you banish the Dark and cure Hollowing. Linking the fire is never an actual part of DS2 even with Aldia's added parts. Seek the King for the cure, afterall. Its just that what you were seeking wasn't Vendrick or that Vendrick had the cure, it was you becoming King and you succeeded where Vendrick failed because of Natasha.

So in DS1, the Chosen Undead is an amalgamation of Ash and Dark, seeking Flame. Gwyn, in his fear of Dark and Humanity, was the one who started everything but the cycle could never end. The way I interpret the events of DS3 for Hollowing is that you have to make the choice to rescind Ash and become Dark. This is a key step that was not possible in DS1 or DS2.

 

[Orochinagis]

I feel like wood and growth is a running theme through all the game, not just the hollows.

Izalith is overgrown and covered in roots, the undead settlement worship a tree, vordts door is grown over by vines and trees, the giant tree on the coffin at IG's bonfire and many more.

I'm sure some of it is just environment design but it's interesting there is SO much tree stuff in this game.

Because the world is turning back to its beginning where the Archtrees and dragons were only the living things in the word

I said this:

I feel like From just sold us the same game 3 times based on the endings.

with the same areas and NPCs

 

[Mr. Poolman]

I feel like there really should have be a very definitive ending that absolutely ends the cycle and brings about the age of grey or simply the age where humans/the dark soul completely takes over and the fire is forever destroyed.

Considering this is the last game in the series that is.

I said this:

I feel like From just sold us the same game 3 times based on the endings.

 

[Raist]

Wait, what? No he doesn't. I'm pretty sure you can see his torso in one of the pics someone posted of Aldritch earlier, and he's got normal scrawny man pecs.

Hard to tell in DS3 to be honest. Assuming that's actually Gwyndolin's actual body.

So, how do people feel like the Lord of Hollows ending differs from the End of Fire ending in terms of the flame coming back? In both cases, the flame is snuffed out, with the major difference seemingly being you actually absorbing the flame in the Lord of Hollows ending. Seems to indicate that either way, the cycle will continue right? Though maybe the next one will be more of a "fresh start" compared to the same old cycle.

Also, wouldn't an age of dark still take over regardless of snuffing the flame or absorbing it?

I don't think the flame is snuffed out in the UtF ending. It just "lives" inside you. If it completely dies, it will somehow come back. So the only way it would come back I guess is if someone goes after and defeats you. Which is likely not gonna happen. That's why I think it's the definitive ending.

 

[Vena]

I don't think the flame is snuffed out in the UtF ending. It just "lives" inside you. If it completely dies, it will somehow come back. So the only way it would come back I guess is if someone goes after and defeats you. Which is likely not gonna happen. That's why I think it's the definitive ending.

Nah. As long as the possibilities exists, its not definite. That's just the nature of the lore at play here. Sooner or later something will come from disparity to oppose you.

No ending has any finality to it. Even when the fire dies, it will inevitably rise again.

 

[Orochinagis]

I don't think the flame is snuffed out in the UtF ending. It just "lives" inside you. If it completely dies, it will somehow come back. So the only way it would come back I guess is if someone goes after and defeats you. Which is likely not gonna happen. That's why I think it's the definitive ending.

Actually no, The new lord of cinder will sucumb since the fire will decay. if you let the fire die the firekeeper says the world will go as the start of all things and new flames will appear anyway starting a true new cycle which is pretty shitty

 

[Edzi]

Humans fuels the fire because they inherited the Dark Soul fragment in their soul thanks to pygmy so Gwyn discovered humans souls can keep the fire alive (it would require TONS of humans souls to relink the fire), humans with the dark sign are always connected to the fire now if you read the Homwward miracle.



Thats why Humans are the only creature to become Hollow due the dark nature of the Dark Soul, all undead have a fragment to become a Lord, it bugs me how a Giant relinked the fire in this game.

Hm, this doesn't sound quite right. For one, it's clearly not just humans who can fuel the fire since Gwyn was the first to do it. It seems that all you really need is an exceptionally powerful soul(s). Also, I can't remember the details, but didn't the undead curse (and hollowing) come about as a result of the fire fading or being linked? And isn't turning hollow more akin to reverting back to their pre-humanity/dark soul pygmy status?

Think that's it. That's why we need all the Lord Souls to link the fire. It's basically just kindling, the same way the Lords of Cinder are in DS3. Some sufficiently powerful person always has to sacrifice themselves at the end of a cycle in order to link the fire. But this also keeps the undead curse going, somehow, I forget the specifics.

Heh, yeah, there's so much to keep track of at this point that it's getting harder and harder to connect the dots.

We are undead free from the Hollow curse but still chasing the flame, as the game says in its intro: ash seeketh flame. We've always been ash seeking flame but in the games prior to Dark Souls 3 we were also touched by Dark and Humanity (quite literally a mechanic of our character that is absent in DS3). (This does get a little wonky in that there are still undead who can Hollow but all of them are "touched by Dark" as per the Anri storyline. Siegward, for instance, simply dies of his wounds in battle with his old friend. He doesn't hollow. Before DS3 everyone Hollowed.)

In DS2, the King (your character) under the guidance of Vendrick/Aldia through the Green Herald, free the undead from the curse of Hollowing. The whole of DS2 is about Hollowing, the Dark, and Malus' fragments which you destroy (and Alsanna is "forever bound" by the Ivory King in a way). Your merge the Crowns as Vendrick orchestrated, kill Natasha (since post-DLC, I'd say she's canonically the last sister you kill), and sit on the throne as the True Monarch and achieve as the Green Herald and Vendrick put forth: you banish the Dark and cure Hollowing. Linking the fire is never an actual part of DS2 even with Aldia's added parts. Seek the King for the cure, afterall. Its just that what you were seeking wasn't Vendrick or that Vendrick had the cure, it was you becoming King and you succeeded where Vendrick failed because of Natasha.

So in DS1, the Chosen Undead is an amalgamation of Ash and Dark, seeking Flame. Gwyn, in his fear of Dark and Humanity, was the one who started everything but the cycle could never end. The way I interpret the events of DS3 for Hollowing is that you have to make the choice to rescind Ash and become Dark. This is a key step that was not possible in DS1 or DS2.

This isn't exactly right form what I remember. Not every human turned undead/hollowed in DS1, it was something that happened to some.

Also, honestly, the ending of DS2 seems to have implications that were abandoned by DS3, so I'm not sure if I'd put too much stock into it. Plus, I still don't think you really explained what the deal is with being Unkindled Ash, though maybe I'm just not understanding. I think it's a new concept in DS3 though, and it's not the case that you were still Ash in the previous games with humanity/dark status, since there doesn't seem to be anything to support that.

Being ash implies that we were burned before. Random speculation, but perhaps being unkindled ash means we were one of the souls that was used to fuel the fire, while actually linking the fire is what turns you into a lord of cinder. I dunno.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Gwyndolins boobs are an illusion and yes, her lower half is also not made out of snakes.....

When is the acceptable time, to change my icon to this

WAIT IS THAT PRISCILLA HAIR?

 

[Raist]

Actually no, The new lord of cinder will sucumb since the fire will decay. if you let the fire die the firekeeper says the world will go as the start of all things and new flames will appear anyway starting a true new cycle which is pretty shitty

What new lord of cinder?

Nah. As long as the possibilities exists, its not definite. That's just the nature of the lore at play here. Sooner or later something will come from disparity to oppose you.

No ending has any finality to it. Even when the fire dies, it will inevitably rise again.

Who's gonna do that? There's no more Lords (Nito Izalith Gwyn), no more Lords of Cinder, no more demons... Where would someone find the power to defeat you, since you accumulated all of that?

To me it's the true ending, the final evolution of the world i.e the age of men (hollows).

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Gwyndolins boobs are an illusion and yes, her lower half is also not made out of snakes.....

When is the acceptable time, to change my icon to this

WAIT IS THAT PRISCILLA HAIR?

I would assume so.

 

[Vena]

Gwyndolins boobs are an illusion and yes, her lower half is also not made out of snakes.....
When is the acceptable time, to change my icon to this

WAIT IS THAT PRISCILLA HAIR?

No? Its just Gwyndolin's hair.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

No? Its just Gwyndolin's hair.

Any other series i'd assume she'd grown it out, but here naaa, its so similar to priscilla

 

[Iva Demilcol]

The pilgrims were those guys trying to get to Lothric with the things on their backs right? Maybe that's significant.

This may be even more significant if you consider that many of them died in front of or after closed doors.

 

[tamaster92]

Talking of the pilgrims - what are they on a pilgrimage to? What are they worshipping?

The mass amount of them on the destroyed bridge indicates they are worshipping either the dragon or the stray demon - or whatever destroyed the bridge I guess.

But what is in lothric that they are going towards? The untended graves perhaps?