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Dark Souls 3 Story and Lore Discussion [Unmarked Spoilers]

Because in my opinion Anor Londo in DS3 isn't the Anor Londo from DS1.

That's uhhh that's certainly An Opinion that you could have. Theoretically.

The problem with this line of thinking is that nothing matters and you can justify absolutely anything with no evidence. The equivalent of TIMEY WIMEY WIBBLY WOBBLY. Past events getting in the way of your theory? No problem - Multiverse!

Dark Souls certainly has some of that but I would say that you can assume that anything the player had to do in Dark Souls 1 actually happened in the world of Dark Souls 3. Otherwise yeah Aldrich ate everyone and there are infinite Andres and infinite lighthouses and what's even the point of anything. And again, that's why I don't like Gwyndolin and Ornstein surviving Dark Souls 1 canonically because it fucks with that and so I can't say you're wrong with any kind of certainty - but I certainly think it's wrong.
 
That's uhhh that's certainly An Opinion that you could have. Theoretically.

The problem with this line of thinking is that nothing matters and you can justify absolutely anything with no evidence. The equivalent of TIMEY WIMEY WIBBLY WOBBLY. Past events getting in the way of your theory? No problem - Multiverse!

Dark Souls certainly has some of that but I would say that you can assume that anything the player had to do in Dark Souls 1 actually happened in the world of Dark Souls 3. Otherwise yeah Aldrich ate everyone and there are infinite Andres and infinite lighthouses and what's even the point of anything. And again, that's why I don't like Gwyndolin and Ornstein surviving Dark Souls 1 canonically because it fucks with that and so I can't say you're wrong with any kind of certainty - but I certainly think it's wrong.

Well it's fine if you don't like it. But that's how Dark Souls work. That was clear from DS1. Not only the whole PvP thing, but also you're explicitely told that by Solaire or Dusk among others.

Plus this bit:

At one point Miyazaki tries to explain how the series timeline might not be all that it seems, but the lengthy explanation ends up truncated as it spirals into complexities too large to cover in our short interview slot and too nightmarish to translate on the fly. “It’s very difficult to explain via translator,” he says, his translator nodding along and laughing exasperatedly. “But even in terms of the perspective of time and when things take place, there’s a lot of vagueness.”

https://www.vg247.com/2016/03/02/dark-souls-3-miyazaki-bloodborne-interview/


edit: I'll add that it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario with your issue with that, because it's only a cop-out sort of answer and there's only "cannon" or retcon issues if your assumption is that things take place in a linear fashion.
 
someone has probably already tried this but i wonder if you can take the lord souls and put them in the untended graves firelink shrine?
 
someone has probably already tried this but i wonder if you can take the lord souls and put them in the untended graves firelink shrine?

Nope, doesn't let you do it. The thrones still have the names on the back, and interestingly, if you tree jump into the tower, and backtrack to where the Covetous Silver Serpent Ring is, the chest is empty.

...Unless you didn't open it.
 
So, I think I figured out who Priscilla and Yorshka are.

In DS1, Seath kept experimenting on maidens, turning them into Pisacas that were "failures". It's stated in a few items descriptions, and there's a maiden set in the cell, along with 2 passive Pisacas that drop Bountiful and Soothing sunlight.

Both Priscilla and Yorshka wear white, are very pale, and have blue-ish / pinkish dragon attributes, so I think they're the only two maidens turned into successful crossbreeds. This would explain Yorshka mentioning "our father Gwyn" and "sister Gwynevere" etc. Perhaps that's also why Seath got mad, they took Priscilla away from him to lock her up in the painted world. Oceiros going mad over losing Ocelotte could be a reference to that.

Also, both seem to have connections with Velka and even potentially protected by her. The Crovians and statues of Velka in the Painted World, some Crovians in DS3 bear Scythes very similar to Priscilla's, and finally Yorshka is the captain of Velka's Darkmoon covenant and when she asks how you managed to reach her, she then asks if you are a dragon or a crow.
 
This thread is getting more desperate every day. I feel like people are just making baseless assumptions because the wilder idea/theory you have, the smarter you appear.

If you think about it, when was the true lore of Souls ever complicated? When people finally figure out what's going on (mainly in DS1), when is it ever as ridiculous as some of the suggestions in this thread? It's pretty straightforward.

Still there's "theories" that begin with stuff like "So, I believe Gwyndolin and Yorshka were having a secret affair but they were found out by Seath after he caught them getting coffee together in downtown Anor Londo. If we assume that this hurt Seath's feelings we can pretty much assume that he then took revenge by...yadda yadda"
 
This thread is getting more desperate every day. I feel like people are just making baseless assumptions because the wilder idea/theory you have, the smarter you appear.

If you think about it, when was the true lore of Souls ever complicated? When people finally figure out what's going on (mainly in DS1), when is it ever as ridiculous as some of the suggestions in this thread? It's pretty straightforward.

Still there's "theories" that begin with stuff like "So, I believe Gwyndolin and Yorshka were having a secret affair but they were found out by Seath after he caught them getting coffee together in downtown Anor Londo. If we assume that this hurt Seath's feelings we can pretty much assume that he then took revenge by...yadda yadda"


Yeah, and I think it's kinda telling that the thread has slowed to a crawl. I'd like to think I've always kept most of my theories based on established lore, even while speculating, but yeah, some of the stuff popping up lately is really reaching. Still, it's not as bad as what I saw in the Bloodborne lore thread. There were some pretty crazy and baseless things asserted there with the utmost conviction, though that's just to be expected in lore discussions I guess. DS3 seems particularly hard to parse though, especially since it clashes with some stuff we thought we knew from past games on top of the game itself not really giving us much to work with. I really hope there are some breakthroughs with stuff we've missed, or that at the very least the DLC has a lot more concrete info.
 
Wow, I'm actually shocked there was no Primordial Serpent in this game, I expected Kaathe rock up in Firelink after I "married" Anri for sure,

Couple of quick questions (I just finished the game, so I'm not clear on much at all).

Who is the Ocelot that Oceiros is talking about? Also, is Oceiros king of Lothric? I thought he might have been the final Lord of Cinder at first, considering the inscription of the final one says something along the lines of "High King of Lothric", yet we get the actual ashes off the prince's of Lothric. So, huh.

One more -- The Soul of Cinder is an amalgamation if all those who previously linked the fire yeah? Which explains why get gets a little Gwyn-ish in the second phase, as he once linked the fire -- the implication for all the other forms, is that he's the chosen undead (player character) of past games? That's kind of neat, I feel like a lot of people had this theory that you'd fight the player character going into DS2, they finally did it I guess.
 
Both Priscilla and Yorshka wear white, are very pale, and have blue-ish / pinkish dragon attributes, so I think they're the only two maidens turned into successful crossbreeds. This would explain Yorshka mentioning "our father Gwyn" and "sister Gwynevere" etc. Perhaps that's also why Seath got mad, they took Priscilla away from him to lock her up in the painted world. Oceiros going mad over losing Ocelotte could be a reference to that.

Seath got mad the same way as Logan, researching at the Library. His obsession, research and experiments turned him mad.

he was kinda unstable from the let go, considering he betrayed his own.

About Yorshka, for all I care Priscilla just fertilized an egg herself (she's half dragon!) and that's where she comes (j/k, but Priscilla and Gwyndolin fucking around doesn't make much sense to me).
 
I'm actually not yet done with the game, but I have a question about The endings.

I gave The firekeeper The firekeeper eyes. The music got all scary and now she's asking me to kill her. So holy shit things took a turn.

Can I still get the link the first flame ending or am I stuck with the alternate ending where I extinguish the flame? Also...when she asked me if I wanted to extinguish the flame, I declined. What would happen if I said yes? And do I have tokill her?
 
Speaking of Dusk, she became a tree in the poison swamp, right?

It's the only white tree in there, you find her crown near it, she's mention to be an expert in polymorphic, so uh...
 
I'm actually not yet done with the game, but I have a question about The endings.

I gave The firekeeper The firekeeper eyes. The music got all scary and now she's asking me to kill her. So holy shit things took a turn.

Can I still get the link the first flame ending or am I stuck with the alternate ending where I extinguish the flame? Also...when she asked me if I wanted to extinguish the flame, I declined. What would happen if I said yes? And do I have tokill her?

You can link the flame. Just proceed as usual and ignore her request to kill her. I did the same thing as you.
 
Wow, I'm actually shocked there was no Primordial Serpent in this game, I expected Kaathe rock up in Firelink after I "married" Anri for sure,

There are statues of him in Lothric castle. In the courtyard where you fight the three NPCs.
Lots of "old codger" messages around them.
 
This thread is getting more desperate every day. I feel like people are just making baseless assumptions because the wilder idea/theory you have, the smarter you appear.

If you think about it, when was the true lore of Souls ever complicated? When people finally figure out what's going on (mainly in DS1), when is it ever as ridiculous as some of the suggestions in this thread? It's pretty straightforward.

Still there's "theories" that begin with stuff like "So, I believe Gwyndolin and Yorshka were having a secret affair but they were found out by Seath after he caught them getting coffee together in downtown Anor Londo. If we assume that this hurt Seath's feelings we can pretty much assume that he then took revenge by...yadda yadda"

Is that directed at my post on Priscilla and Yorshka?

edit: just read the Dreamchaser Ashes thing. Dunno, I like it personally. But I think it's more than Miyazaki making fun of people who looked for a use for that item for ages.
 
It's not directed at anyone in particular. It's a hyperbolic example of where I think the discussion is steadily heading.

Thing is, I'm not sure why you and a few other posters seem to only accept item description or dialogues as evidence. There is lot of care put in visual details as well, and things like where items are placed for instance. That has been quite clear since Demon's.
 
Thing is, I'm not sure why you and a few other posters seem to only accept item description or dialogues as evidence. There is lot of care put in visual details as well, and things like where items are placed for instance. That has been quite clear since Demon's.

I'm fully on board with that.

Of course I know FROM use visual clues on top of item descriptions and dialogue. It's when people start talking about characters' emotions or giving them these obscure motives out of thin air. The more you (No, not you personally!) throw in the phrases "What if..." and "We can assume", the thinner your argument becomes.

I remember when Dark Souls first came out and there was considerable lore to go through, it was fun for about 6-7 months before "lorehunters" appeared who just started making up their own shit. What I'm saying is it's a slippery slope once you start ignoring evidence (yes, that evidence includes visual clues) and start saying stuff that you think just sounds cool.

slDOiDM.jpg

I saw this image earlier in the thread and it's great but it can so easily be applied to the way lore's being accepted in this thread.

1. I made up this lore.
2. You made up this lore?
3. Yes, it is my headcanon.
4. Ok....this is canon.

------------------------------------------------

I'm not "against" anyone in this thread and we shouldn't be picking sides but some people really need to take a step back from their headcanon or at least make a headcanon thread where they can dream to their heart's content.
 
Thing is, I'm not sure why you and a few other posters seem to only accept item description or dialogues as evidence. There is lot of care put in visual details as well, and things like where items are placed for instance. That has been quite clear since Demon's.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that. It's just that item descriptions are more concrete and starting there gives more than starting with the visual clues. For instance, visual clues harken back to Demon's Souls, but we know these worlds aren't connected.

Combine that with a ton of people getting into the lore game for the first time and you get insane theories based on things like "OMG Aldrich is also Nito because skeleton cloak!" Yeah sure, that's absolutely a possibility, but there's also a ton of skeleton motif's and he ate people and people produce skeletons so him not eating Nito is just as viable of an explanation.
 
Rational, evidence-backed thoughts. Amazing.

That was pretty good though, can't see any other interpretation adding anything.

Edit: Seems like a rare thing on that sub. Just looked at that Dreamchaser's Ashes post and it's absurd.

I'm not sure I agree with him saying that the End of Fire ending is a bad, world ending one. It ends the Dark Souls world as we know it but the point is to return the world back to square one so a "new" first flame can be born. This also gives us some insight as to how the First Flame came about, which up until now was a mystery.
 
Thing is, I'm not sure why you and a few other posters seem to only accept item description or dialogues as evidence. There is lot of care put in visual details as well, and things like where items are placed for instance. That has been quite clear since Demon's.

Whilst yes these are immensely important, we have to be much more careful now cause fucking fanservice.

If this was DS1, far less people would object to the nito - aldritch relation. But for now its hard to differentiate between pure fan service, references etc
 
After finishing the game yesterday I came to realize how similar this world is to DS1.

My biggest theory though is that Boreal Valley is actually the painted world. Not sure if others are saying this too, but the similarities are there. Its snowing in both places, theyre both "in" anor londo. You need a doll to access the area.

There are tons of these little connections throughout the world with other areas too.
 
I think I'm pretty much satisfied with what I've seen from the lore and the story so far. At the beginning I thought it was kind of weird that suddenly you had people form Carim, Astora, Vinheim and some references to Forossa and Mirrah. As I kept digging deeper and deeper, it seems that some of those lands disappeared long ago (Forossa) while others fell not too long ago (Astora)... what? is this thing going backwards?, both Astora and Forossa should be ancient history but while Forossa should be certainly more recent, the game threats the latter as if it was so ancient people just know legends about it, while you have NPCs in the game that actually come from Astora as if its fall happened a few years ago. Someone in this thread suggested that the time is going backwards but I believe that what's actually happening is that you are traveling through time and space as you keep walking through "Lothric".

Yes, some people have already mention that, this is not a big discovery at all, only I had always thought that it was like this since the first game. I mean, in Dark Souls I you interacted with the very first pilgrim of the Way of White and before that you'd find other members of the way of white who went to Lordran searching for the rite of Kindling that you'll recover from Pinwheel as if that had happened a very long time ago... even though you hadn't done that by the time you met Reia (?, forgot her name). But what almost made my head hurt was how rats and crows where huge, but that was not all, some doors and locations were bigger than they should be and I'm not talking about the elevators on Anor Londo (or the whole place) it was as if you were constantly changing size as you kept going from one location to another (The Tomb of Artorias, for example). I'm pretty sure it wasn't planned like that for Dark Souls II, but somehow, the geography of Drangleic kind of makes sense now ("Perhaps you've seen it, maybe in a dream, a murky, forgotten land...").

But that's not all, DSIII has given some answers about thing that people kept asking themselves for a very long time now like: Gwyn's first born. They even changed the status quo of some characters like Ornstein from "he's the only one of the four Knights of Gwyn that we've met" to "he's the only one of the Four Knights that we haven't met at all in the series".

One of the things that I don't know if somebody has mentioned here is that I think we finally know what was the role of Carim and Thorolund in the first game. Now, it seems as if Carim and its goddess Velka took over the Way of White; there's an item description where it is stated that in Carim, Lloyd's holy status was thought to be self proclaimed; that leads me to believe that they were in some kind of struggle with each other in the past. Many people suggested that the crow that brings you form the Undead Asylum to Lordan was probably associated with Velka, as if Velka was trying to punish the gods of Lordran. We don't know if that is true or not, but the Way of White in DS3 is associated with Carim, not with Thorolund. At least Lloyd doesn't seem to be as respected as before, to the point that in DSII the coins that had its image engraved are not recognized anymore.

Unfortunately, we have to wait until the two DLCs to see how much the lore will change... or perhaps the DLC will just bring more questions than answers (it'd probably be that way).
 
So Sulyvahn is pretty much the closest thing this game has to a main villain I suppose?

Eeeh. The problem is we don't know *his* motivations. He might not be opposed to the linking of fire, more that he's just defending Aldritch so Aldritch can do his thing.
 
I think I'm pretty much satisfied with what I've seen from the lore and the story so far. At the beginning I thought it was kind of weird that suddenly you had people form Carim, Astora, Vinheim and some references to Forossa and Mirrah. As I kept digging deeper and deeper, it seems that some of those lands disappeared long ago (Forossa) while others fell not too long ago (Astora)... what? is this thing going backwards?, both Astora and Forossa should be ancient history but while Forossa should be certainly more recent, the game threats the latter as if it was so ancient people just know legends about it, while you have NPCs in the game that actually come from Astora as if its fall happened a few years ago. Someone in this thread suggested that the time is going backwards but I believe that what's actually happening is that you are traveling through time and space as you keep walking through "Lothric".

Yes, some people have already mention that, this is not a big discovery at all, only I had always thought that it was like this since the first game. I mean, in Dark Souls I you interacted with the very first pilgrim of the Way of White and before that you'd find other members of the way of white who went to Lordran searching for the rite of Kindling that you'll recover from Pinwheel as if that had happened a very long time ago... even though you hadn't done that by the time you met Reia (?, forgot her name). But what almost made my head hurt was how rats and crows where huge, but that was not all, some doors and locations were bigger than they should be and I'm not talking about the elevators on Anor Londo (or the whole place) it was as if you were constantly changing size as you kept going from one location to another (The Tomb of Artorias, for example). I'm pretty sure it wasn't planned like that for Dark Souls II, but somehow, the geography of Drangleic kind of makes sense now ("Perhaps you've seen it, maybe in a dream, a murky, forgotten land...").

But that's not all, DSIII has given some answers about thing that people kept asking themselves for a very long time now like: Gwyn's first born. They even changed the status quo of some characters like Ornstein from "he's the only one of the four Knights of Gwyn that we've met" to "he's the only one of the Four Knights that we haven't met at all in the series".

One of the things that I don't know if somebody has mentioned here is that I think we finally know what was the role of Carim and Thorolund in the first game. Now, it seems as if Carim and its goddess Velka took over the Way of White; there's an item description where it is stated that in Carim, Lloyd's holy status was thought to be self proclaimed; that leads me to believe that they were in some kind of struggle with each other in the past. Many people suggested that the crow that brings you form the Undead Asylum to Lordan was probably associated with Velka, as if Velka was trying to punish the gods of Lordran. We don't know if that is true or not, but the Way of White in DS3 is associated with Carim, not with Thorolund. At least Lloyd doesn't seem to be as respected as before, to the point that in DSII the coins that had its image engraved are not recognized anymore.

Unfortunately, we have to wait until the two DLCs to see how much the lore will change... or perhaps the DLC will just bring more questions than answers (it'd probably be that way).

The thing is, Anri and Horace, and likely Siegward, are Unkindled ones too. So they rose from their graves just like the PC did. God knows how long they've been dead for.

I thought Aldrich was the villain... Didn't he just start eating everyone lol? (I have no idea what is going on lore-wise in these games).

Sulyvahn is quite clearly messed up. He turned the Cathedral into a mess, Yorshka refers to him as a tyrant, his Greatsword mentions "Its dark blue hues, deeper than the darkest moon, reflect sorcerer Sulyvahn's true nature.". And he turned his back to pure faith, since he developed the use of intelligence for miracles which is considered sinful.
I don't think Aldrich is pure evil per se. Yes, he ate people, but in terms of the world, he just really didn't give a fuck. Sulyvahn is also the one who locked Gwyndolin up so that Aldrich would devour him.

Whilst yes these are immensely important, we have to be much more careful now cause fucking fanservice.

If this was DS1, far less people would object to the nito - aldritch relation. But for now its hard to differentiate between pure fan service, references etc

See that's the thing. Considering how much care From / Miyazaki puts in design and lore, I don't think it's just fanservice.
 
I think I'm pretty much satisfied with what I've seen from the lore and the story so far. At the beginning I thought it was kind of weird that suddenly you had people form Carim, Astora, Vinheim and some references to Forossa and Mirrah. As I kept digging deeper and deeper, it seems that some of those lands disappeared long ago (Forossa) while others fell not too long ago (Astora)... what? is this thing going backwards?, both Astora and Forossa should be ancient history but while Forossa should be certainly more recent, the game threats the latter as if it was so ancient people just know legends about it, while you have NPCs in the game that actually come from Astora as if its fall happened a few years ago. Someone in this thread suggested that the time is going backwards but I believe that what's actually happening is that you are traveling through time and space as you keep walking through "Lothric".

Yes, some people have already mention that, this is not a big discovery at all, only I had always thought that it was like this since the first game. I mean, in Dark Souls I you interacted with the very first pilgrim of the Way of White and before that you'd find other members of the way of white who went to Lordran searching for the rite of Kindling that you'll recover from Pinwheel as if that had happened a very long time ago... even though you hadn't done that by the time you met Reia (?, forgot her name). But what almost made my head hurt was how rats and crows where huge, but that was not all, some doors and locations were bigger than they should be and I'm not talking about the elevators on Anor Londo (or the whole place) it was as if you were constantly changing size as you kept going from one location to another (The Tomb of Artorias, for example). I'm pretty sure it wasn't planned like that for Dark Souls II, but somehow, the geography of Drangleic kind of makes sense now ("Perhaps you've seen it, maybe in a dream, a murky, forgotten land...").

But that's not all, DSIII has given some answers about thing that people kept asking themselves for a very long time now like: Gwyn's first born. They even changed the status quo of some characters like Ornstein from "he's the only one of the four Knights of Gwyn that we've met" to "he's the only one of the Four Knights that we haven't met at all in the series".

One of the things that I don't know if somebody has mentioned here is that I think we finally know what was the role of Carim and Thorolund in the first game. Now, it seems as if Carim and its goddess Velka took over the Way of White; there's an item description where it is stated that in Carim, Lloyd's holy status was thought to be self proclaimed; that leads me to believe that they were in some kind of struggle with each other in the past. Many people suggested that the crow that brings you form the Undead Asylum to Lordan was probably associated with Velka, as if Velka was trying to punish the gods of Lordran. We don't know if that is true or not, but the Way of White in DS3 is associated with Carim, not with Thorolund. At least Lloyd doesn't seem to be as respected as before, to the point that in DSII the coins that had its image engraved are not recognized anymore.

Unfortunately, we have to wait until the two DLCs to see how much the lore will change... or perhaps the DLC will just bring more questions than answers (it'd probably be that way).

A retcon (granted, one with a possible and annoyingly convenient "Gwyndolin's illusion!" explanation) is "changing the status quo"? I guess that's an optimistic way of looking at it.

Also, doesn't the game explicitly say that Lothric is a place where the lands of lords are converging?
 
The narrator calls them "The transitory lands of the Lords of Cinder" or something similar.

So yeah, shit's either moved or just flat out appeared. And going by what we see in the kiln, it probably moved. Violently.
 
The thing is, Anri and Horace, and likely Siegward, are Unkindled ones too. So they rose from their graves just like the PC did. God knows how long they've been dead for.

If I remember correctly, Horace and Anri were raised in Irythill/Anor Londo. The Executioner set says that there were two children that survived being taken by Aldrich's cult (the other one may be Anri):

"Steel armor of Horace the Hushed, who took a liking to its cold, bulky insides.

The original owner was said to be a corrupt executioner, who was killed and stripped of his armor.

Horace is one of only two children to escape Aldrich's clutches."

They were still children when they were taken by the Cult of the Deep (there are a lot of statues depicting children being trained by the cult of the Deep), but Anri's still refered as Anri of Astora. That may be an indication of the timeline where those two were alive. Therefore Astora fell during the time the cult of the Deep was active.
 
From the elite knight set's description:

"Armor said to have been given to elite knights of fallen Astora

The mere mention of Astora invokes wistful pangs, and perhaps it was such a dream that drew Anri to this faraway home known only by name"

Pretty sure Anri was the other child, or at least we know for certain she/he's not from Astora.
 
Im guessing there isnt but has there been anything like Paleblood hunt made yet... or atleast being made.
Considering it's been just over a week, and Paleblood Hunt took months and months to make, there isn't anything like it yet.

I would probably expect similar efforts to be under way or complete around the time the DLC drops, if not after. Since the DLC will most likely fill in some gaps.
 
This thread is getting more desperate every day. I feel like people are just making baseless assumptions because the wilder idea/theory you have, the smarter you appear.

If you think about it, when was the true lore of Souls ever complicated? When people finally figure out what's going on (mainly in DS1), when is it ever as ridiculous as some of the suggestions in this thread? It's pretty straightforward.

Still there's "theories" that begin with stuff like "So, I believe Gwyndolin and Yorshka were having a secret affair but they were found out by Seath after he caught them getting coffee together in downtown Anor Londo. If we assume that this hurt Seath's feelings we can pretty much assume that he then took revenge by...yadda yadda"

The painted world is really just a prolonged Facebook conversation.
 
From the elite knight set's description:

"Armor said to have been given to elite knights of fallen Astora

The mere mention of Astora invokes wistful pangs, and perhaps it was such a dream that drew Anri to this faraway home known only by name"

Pretty sure Anri was the other child, or at least we know for certain she/he's not from Astora.

Totally missed that one. I suppose it's a connection lost, still, there are other elements that kept me thinking of the possibility that both time and space changes as yu walk through Lothric: like the presence of Carim Knights, when they were already forgotten in the timeline of DSII, yet in this game you find people from Carim while the land of Forossa is just remembered only in legends.
 
Considering it's been just over a week, and Paleblood Hunt took months and months to make, there isn't anything like it yet.

I would probably expect similar efforts to be under way or complete around the time the DLC drops, if not after. Since the DLC will most likely fill in some gaps.

I was hoping someone who played the JP vers compiled some stuff :/
 
I was hoping someone who played the JP vers compiled some stuff :/

Someone on reddit kind of did. It was posted in this thread a while back, but there were a series of pretty decent posts made on the japanese ds3 release sub that go through most of the major players in DS3.

I don't have the link on me right now though, sorry.
 
Why Kirk abandoned the Fair lady, just why

Speaking of Dusk, she became a tree in the poison swamp, right?

It's the only white tree in there, you find her crown near it, she's mention to be an expert in polymorphic, so uh...

Looks like it, Dusk tried to defend the area when it was turned into a poison swamp killing all its inhabitants. Clumsy Dusk forgot to take out her ring

Is hinted she became that white tree which is confusing because she returned to her timeline or got stuck on the present day in Dark Souls 1 yet Elizabeth is still alive but died due poison.
 
Someone on reddit kind of did. It was posted in this thread a while back, but there were a series of pretty decent posts made on the japanese ds3 release sub that go through most of the major players in DS3.

I don't have the link on me right now though, sorry.

Ah no worries, ill see if i can find it myself.
 
I'm not sure I agree with him saying that the End of Fire ending is a bad, world ending one. It ends the Dark Souls world as we know it but the point is to return the world back to square one so a "new" first flame can be born. This also gives us some insight as to how the First Flame came about, which up until now was a mystery.

Did you see the ending? It's basically pitch black. Joffrey even tells you, his visions of the Dark age is just a dark wasteland. Live will be shit in the Age of Dark.

Also, sure, Age of Dark is the next age, but let's not pretend is any diferent that the Age of Fire, both are artificial Ages after Gwyn fucked it up. Going back to square one would be going to the Age of Mist, something that seems atleast better for life than the Age of Dark.

Eeeh. The problem is we don't know *his* motivations. He might not be opposed to the linking of fire, more that he's just defending Aldritch so Aldritch can do his thing.

I can't make much sense about him. I mean, the Cathedral of Deep seems like they follow the Abyss and all that shit, but Aldrich was a cleric there and they aid him to be a Lord of cinder.
 
Did you see the ending? It's basically pitch black. Joffrey even tells you, his visions of the Dark age is just a dark wasteland. Live will be shit in the Age of Dark.

Also, sure, Age of Dark is the next age, but let's not pretend is any diferent that the Age of Fire, both are artificial Ages after Gwyn fucked it up. Going back to square one would be going to the Age of Mist, something that seems atleast better for life than the Age of Dark.

I mean the Souls games have all been pretty layered in themes of nihilism/futility vs. hope

It tends to be a philosophical question of is it worth the little bit more time of hope/fire (from regular individual's perspectives) vs just embracing the Dark. The problem with Dark Souls 3 is it kind of imposes upon the player that the age of fire is completely fucked and ruined and it's kind of better to just go with the reset (or the Age of Hollows). Dark Souls 1 was better by it (and I think the themes of nihilism vs hope are undermined by the CYCLE CYCLE CYCLE bullshit).

edit: And it's sort of supported (or rather emphasized) to go with the other endings that involve snuffing out the Age of Fire because you have to go out of your way to get those endings and thus they feel more important rather than DS1 where it was just a simple choice right at the end after learning of the world.

edit edit: Though I suppose you could argue that because everything is a cycle and the fire will always come back that it's pointless to go with either option (link or not link) since fire will always come back and that reinforces nihilism even more.

edit edit edit: But then I think that's less interesting and when the game is simply enforcing nihilism, it's less interesting and provocative (though "oppressive"). Rather nihilism fighting hope fighting nihilism is a more interesting struggle in the world.

I can't make much sense about him. I mean, the Cathedral of Deep seems like they follow the Abyss and all that shit, but Aldrich was a cleric there and they aid him to be a Lord of cinder.

Pretty sure they only made him a Lord of CInder out of desire for strength (and if DS3 follows DS1 and 2's ideas, the brighter the fire, the more darkness/Abyss is attracted to it).
 
I think that extinguishing the first flame is a good thing, everything went black, but it will be temporary: The fire keeper said she sensed tiny flames within the dark, not a new flame, but tiny flames. The world won't depend on just one flame, but many. While with the age of hollows the humans have taken the first flame into custody, still incapable of letting the old powers go.
 
I think that extinguishing the first flame is a good thing, everything went black, but it will be temporary: The fire keeper said she sensed tiny flames within the dark, not a new flame, but tiny flames. The world won't depend on just one flame, but many. While with the age of hollows the humans have taken the first flame into custody, still incapable of letting the old powers go.

I also think the End of Fire ending is the most poignant of the four.
 
I think that extinguishing the first flame is a good thing, everything went black, but it will be temporary: The fire keeper said she sensed tiny flames within the dark, not a new flame, but tiny flames. The world won't depend on just one flame, but many. While with the age of hollows the humans have taken the first flame into custody, still incapable of letting the old powers go.

Yeah, basically the world will be in constant pain and struggle to lift the fire in each cycle if the humans let the fire die and wait for another fire, starting a true cycle is not remotely funny and lame

edit: And it's sort of supported (or rather emphasized) to go with the other endings that involve snuffing out the Age of Fire because you have to go out of your way to get those endings and thus they feel more important rather than DS1 where it was just a simple choice right at the end after learning of the world.

edit edit: Though I suppose you could argue that because everything is a cycle and the fire will always come back that it's pointless to go with either option (link or not link) since fire will always come back and that reinforces nihilism even more.


Pretty sure they only made him a Lord of CInder out of desire for strength (and if DS3 follows DS1 and 2's ideas, the brighter the fire, the more darkness/Abyss is attracted to it).

The Dark Souls series bores me now because Miyazaki didnt have the courage to do a proper ending after giving same endings in three games in a row, with the same locations and NPCs in a row.

You can say FROM added more ideas and more interesting characters but in the end in the same core lore is being retold for the third time
 
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