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[Octavia]

My biggest issue is that as the series went on, it lost the ability to differentiate 'staples' and 'copy and paste everything'. I bet they had it pretty easy with DS3, considering almost the whole game is basically a copy paste job. There's reused assets/enemies/design everywhere and it's super lazy, easily past COD reuse levels.

Otherwise, the only things that I'd like to nitpick is the invader system. Most of the time, the invader just runs further in the level, and pulls you towards the unkilled enemies in your way. So it turns into a war of attrition (boredom). You either let the invader win by being impatient and going in to be swarmed by the enemies and them, or you just sit there until they get bored and come attack you on a fair 1-1. Half the time they just get bored and quit.

 

[Seaklng]

Sure they have their problems, like any other games.
It makes things so much more satisfying when you finally do get past things though.
At least that's how it is for me idk

 

[Morrigan Stark]

To add to what has already been refuted:

-The game heavily relies on invincibility frames and is overly generous in providing enemies invincibility frames (such as smacking an enemy into the ground only to find that they are invincible when getting back up. This wastes your stamina and they resume slashing at you).

Those and there needs to be a "hit downed ENEMY " button to hurt knocked down enemies. I think it is stupid when they hit the ground and you just sort of... stand there? Calmly waiting for them to get up? Wtf?

Uh, if you're knocked down, you're also briefly invincible. It's only fair that the enemies are, too. Otherwise it'd make weapons with knockdown properties completely OP.

Most of the list in the OP is factually wrong but even when it's not, it's mostly just nitpicking, not really "design flaws".

Only thing on that list was kicking when I'm trying to R1. I realize that it's entirely my fault, but for some reason I only ran into the problem in DS3.

Yeah, the only issue I'd agree with is the kick. I don't remember accidentally kicking (and missing an intentional kick) as often in DS1 as I did in DS3. I don't know why that is, but it's annoying. "NO stop kicking!!", I said, often, before whiffing a hit and then dying. xD

I'm pretty sure about half of the levels I lost to False King Allant were from shit hitboxes.

Welcome to Souls games' Grab Attack Bullshit Hitbox (tm).

From playing bloodborne and talking about it, it seems like the defense for bad design is always "but that's bloodborne/souls baby"

*Lips dont move
*Controls written lazily on the floor
*Can't pause
*One hit kills no matter what level you may
*Some things aren't explained
*Some areas are incredibly obscure to reach
*No easier difficulty

Drives me insane, that's not a defense, those are flaws and they are overlooked because dammit it's a great game, I just wish people weren't so blinded to how it can be improved.

lmao

Especially the "controls written on the floor" bit. Like that's a GLARING flaw that gets OVERLOOKED OMG SOULS FANS ARE SO BIASED. xD

exactly. you and others stated it perfectly.

Dark Souls 1 boss souls were so important, but in 3 they are frankly rather worthless.

What? No, that's not true. Boss souls in DS1 were literally all hot garbage except for one (Quelaag's, which gave the Chaos Blade). I guess the Lifehunt Scythe has some uses, but I never bothered using it over the regular Great Scythe, self-bleed wasn't worth it. Everything else really sucked.

To be fair it's kind of true about DS3 too; most boss souls weapons/spells are crap. But, there's still a few that are decent, and DS2 had a lot of pretty good ones.

That's one of the cheapest moments in DS1. There are a few hints (you can hear the dragon coming, plus the game teased the dragon earlier in the stage), but yeah, most people die to that if they're not warned ahead of time.

I... don't know how people even managed to die to that. Even using the lowest level character with super low-vit, the fire doesn't OHKO unless maybe it's a direct hit. And once you survived the fire, then you can handle the encounter. I never died on this bridge.

My biggest pet peeve is the recycled animations.

The what now?

Let's talk about real flaws, shall we?

- Hitboxes on grab attacks, in every game they are bullshit.
- Netcode. It's been bad since Demon's, but somehow it seems the worst in DS3. The lag spikes that occur every time a new player joins the fray (summoned phantom, second invader, darkmoon invader etc.) are ridiculous, with players skating about etc. At least lagstabs are largely gone in DS3, though.
- Too many useless/poorly balanced spells. DS2 did this the best, honestly, though they might have nerfed GRS and GLS a bit too much. But at least they are still useful. In DS3, Lightning Spear and most miracles really really suck, sorcery takes forever to become strong, tons of useless spells (Deep Soul, Pestilent Mercury anyone?), etc.
- Why is poison so gimped in DS3? It was actually dangerous/useful in DS2. Like, DS3's toxic seems weaker than DS2's poison...
- Why are some weapon arts such shit, like the dual scimitars' L2?
- Why can't I ever, ever Darkmoon/Blue Sentinel? In fact, why are there two completely redundant covenants? Whyyyy
- Why are some gestures locked behind covenant side-quests and mutually exclusive with other quests (Proper Bow vs Sirris quest rewards).

Well, those are kinda nitpicks too I guess, but they are legit more annoying than anything in the OP to me.

 

[Persona7]

My biggest pet peeve is the recycled animations.

Do you have some type of comparison video or gifs?

 

[Sora the Cat]

You need to add cheap, undodgeable instant kills to your list OP.

It was at the point in DS1 where, after taking ages to defeat Tauros, I think, I came to a giant bridge. As soon as I was slightly across that bridge a dragon swoops down and engulfs the entire bridge in flames that kill you instantly. There is also no bonfire between this bridge and the boss you've just beaten. That was where I knew it was time to just give up and stop wasting my time and energy and move on to superior games.

Mm, that dragon didn't kill me, so it isn't undodgeable, as you say. I just went down the stairs and found a bonfire, as it was clear that I wasn't gonna be able to defeat a giant dragon at that point.

 

[crap monkey]

Mm, that dragon didn't kill me, so it isn't undodgeable, as you say. I just went down the stairs and found a bonfire, as it was clear that I wasn't gonna be able to defeat a giant dragon at that point.

I think he's referring to when you first get to the bridge, if you just normally walk across it, the dragon swoops down and easily catches you with the fire attack. You kinda already have to be running to make it down that little stair case and even then good chance he catches you, but it's not a one hit kill iirc, it needs to hit twice to kill, but you can't just stand in the fire after you get back up either, you need to book it. So the second hit of it never lands.

The only attack that does ohko is when he lands on the actual bridge to come after you and he rises straight up into the air and breathes fire right down on you, if you're right under him it's a one hit kill at that point in the game,

 

[HK-47]

This. Jumping in DS 1 and 3 is also a horrible experience after the far better jump mapping in DS2 and Bloodborne, no idea why reverted it back. There is just no excuse for the kick though, they could have solved it far better (e.g. by executing a kick when you hold R1 instead of tapping it), as it is you kick when you don't want to and when you want to kick you'll most likely bounce on a shield with a normal attack, leaving you open to get hit.

I'll probably get some flak for it, but there are plenty of areas in the Souls games that are rather bullshit when it comes to balancing. Cheap, scripted environment oneshots in DS2 (which had a wonky balance in general), deadly one-shot murder death lasers in Bloodborne you actually have to run through head on instead of being able to circumvent them and endlessly respawning creeps tied to respawning summoners in hard to reach places (yep, that one area just sucked the fun right out of the game) and the swamp in DS3... ugh (yeah, fighting giant crabs with a shitload of damage and HP and a hilariously long ranged super grapple while your movement is impared is so much fun, especially if they randomly decide to burrow away, respawn wih full HP a few seconds later, and thanks to their insane aggro range are probably charging at you right again. They also respawn and drop unique rings you'll want, yeah).


Agreed, From finally managed to nail build and weapon balance (except perhaps for miracles which are a bit underpowered).

First and only Souls game where I randomly decided to use the bow with lock on auto aim at close ranges rather than just a long range kiting tool and it actually WORKS, thanks to solid damage, high hit chance, strong power attacks (gotta love the longbow powershot that throws even mini-bosses back) and the fact that you can cancel out the string pulling/firing animation anytime with a roll if the enemy attacks faster than you anticipated. It was a godsend in the swamp where you can barely move at all. It works even so well that I decided to skill DEX rather than STRG for the first time when I hit that area, going for a Halberd build rather than the usual Claymore.

No. DS2 has far better build and weapon variety (and better, more usable magic) and unlike 3, actually does make good cases for every stat. Vit in 3 can mostly be ignored in a way it couldnt easily in 1 or 2.

 

[HK-47]

Let's talk about real flaws, shall we?

- Hitboxes on grab attacks, in every game they are bullshit.
- Netcode. It's been bad since Demon's, but somehow it seems the worst in DS3. The lag spikes that occur every time a new player joins the fray (summoned phantom, second invader, darkmoon invader etc.) are ridiculous, with players skating about etc. At least lagstabs are largely gone in DS3, though.
- Too many useless/poorly balanced spells. DS2 did this the best, honestly, though they might have nerfed GRS and GLS a bit too much. But at least they are still useful. In DS3, Lightning Spear and most miracles really really suck, sorcery takes forever to become strong, tons of useless spells (Deep Soul, Pestilent Mercury anyone?), etc.
- Why is poison so gimped in DS3? It was actually dangerous/useful in DS2. Like, DS3's toxic seems weaker than DS2's poison...
- Why are some weapon arts such shit, like the dual scimitars' L2?
- Why can't I ever, ever Darkmoon/Blue Sentinel? In fact, why are there two completely redundant covenants? Whyyyy
- Why are some gestures locked behind covenant side-quests and mutually exclusive with other quests (Proper Bow vs Sirris quest rewards).

Well, those are kinda nitpicks too I guess, but they are legit more annoying than anything in the OP to me.

What swords are you talking about? Because the dual curved sword L2 is bullshit, one hit kill stuff with bleed or buff builds and can confirm off r1s, running r1s and running l1s. I should know, I run a luck/bleed build and I dont like using the warden twinblades because I just murder people.

 

[Vex_]

To add to what has already been refuted:


Uh, if you're knocked down, you're also briefly invincible. It's only fair that the enemies are, too. Otherwise it'd make weapons with knockdown properties completely OP.

Most knockdown weapons are slow as shit. I don't even struggle against heavy weapon users.

I want knocked down invincibility to be GONE (for both player and enemies). It makes no sense why that is even there period. Also, did you know you can be hit on the ground by certain enemies? They have that "downed attack" I was talking about earlier. Why don't we?

They could allow wake up rolls to have I frames. You would still have to guess the correct wakeup up option. Tekken does this as well and it makes sense here (guessing correctly).

Op has some good points. Particularly the weapon size in hallways one. That's ridiculous. I want to be able to use positioning to my full advantage. The style of gameplay in souls games lend themselves well to a tactical thinker.

That's my opinion on it.

 

[HK-47]

Most knockdown weapons are slow as shit. I don't even struggle against heavy weapon users.

I want knocked down invincibility to be GONE (for both player and enemies). It makes no sense why that is even there period. Also, did you know you can be hit on the ground by certain enemies? They have that "downed attack" I was talking about earlier. Why don't we?

They could allow wake up rolls to have I frames. You would still have to guess the correct wakeup up option. Tekken does this as well and it makes sense here.

Op has some good points. Particularly the weapon size in hallways one. That's ridiculous. I want to be able to use positioning to my full advantage. The style of gameplay in souls games lend themselves well to a tactical thinker.

That's my opinion on it.

You already can use postioning to your advantage. The npc enemies get that leeway because they are the ones at a severe disadvantage. Its only unfair in the sense that you arent counting your functioning brain as the biggest asset in the game.

 

[Vex_]

You already can use postioning to your advantage. The npc enemies get that leeway because they are the ones at a severe disadvantage. Its only unfair in the sense that you arent counting your functioning brain as the biggest asset in the game.

Well what's the point of even discussing possible improvements at all if you're going to go this route? It is fair because I have a brain? Wtf?? Having a brain does not excuse weapon properties not being consistent across all parties in the game.

That can be said for any game? How do I even respond to a post like this?

Look, I love the souls games. However, I am not blind to certain mechanics in the game that could have been done better.

And I just thought of another flaw: enemy infinite stamina. Now that's bullshit. They need to be susceptible to the same constraints the player is for consistency's sake.

 

[Jobbs]

Only one that really bothers me is enemies attacks going through walls. The others are either not a problem/disagree or a very minor problem

 

[Ratrat]

The op looks like mostly bullshit, but I'll agree that From Software has mostly failed to perfect their formula. Its one of the best formula's around, but I feel they tend to make a few unnecessary decisions every entry that make the sequels worse in some aspects.

 

[chrishackwood]

I love the souls games but i'd certainly agree with a lot of those points.

I still feel invincibility frames are a cheap way of getting around dodging enemy attacks. They should design enemy attack and movement animations around your move set so if you know how to move around the environment you can avoid them without cheap invincibility tricks.

Also enemies attacks and movement as you say aren't affected by the environment (which is kind of B.S. - screw you skeleton wheels) If you roll towards me and I dodge and you hit the wall you should stumble and maybe fall over not keep on moving like the wall/object isn't there. (i know they sometimes do stop and stumble but not everytime which is just weird)

I would like to see the souls games use some sort of euphoria physics engine after an attack or move animation so at least you feel like the enemies fully interact with the environment. I suspect it would be a nightmare to implement but it would sure make it fairer on the player - you would need to alter the A.I. so it would know which attack animations to use given on where it is in the environment as not cause to many silly/humorous stumbles.

I can dream!!!

 

[Vex_]

I got summoned as a blue FIVE times in my 100+ hour playthrough. Broken.
Netcode. Stays broken. Expected. But it sucks because the game is built around online invasions. There needs to be a better latency mitigation technique employed here. Because this shit is smash bros brawl bad. And I also agree with others about spells being ass.

I was a faith build and I still found my shit getting pushed in until I just respec'd to half Dex/half faith. I should've just went Dex/str or even just Dex with the bare minimum for str (18 or so) so I can use certain weapons.


I see they made all the dragons poison proof huh? Guess they learned their lesson there real fast.

 

[Ogawa-san]

I have my own list of little grievances with Souls games, but trying to talk about them is pointless. I mean, you can find people here defending that dragon swooping to zerg you and all your souls after Taurus in DS1...

I'm sorry, not zerg. I mean, teach you a valuable lesson.

 

[skLaFarebear]

I still feel invincibility frames are a cheap way of getting around dodging enemy attacks. They should design enemy attack and movement animations around your move set so if you know how to move around the environment you can avoid them without cheap invincibility tricks.

You would literally have to rework every single enemy and boss (and even some traps) in the entire series if you removed iframes. It's arguably the single most important mechanic in the game, and imo, a really good one for action games.

Edit: Bloodborne especially would break if there weren't iframes. Bosses are designed around the fact that they move so fast and cover so much range that the only way to survive is to dodge through their attacks with iframes.

 

[cormack12]

50 page thread incoming!!!

Basically you just have to accept that it's a game where the odds are stacked against you intentionally. Then you have to make a decision on whether the art/atmosphere/design/combat is enough to make you ignore the horrible design aspects that you hate.

For Bloodborne it was, in general Souls for me personally are not. I'm just thinking about the time I'm wasting on one section and the games I'm putting on hold for it. While Souls is decent, for me it's not of sufficient quality to focus on and avoid other games.

Although one thing I'd hope everyone can agree on is that over the course of the 'Souls' series only, FROM failed to improve the biggest complaints sufficiently.

That's all there is to it.

 

[Cartman86]

I don't think any of the jank stuck out to me until DS3 with some of the enemies you can swing weapons through entire fucking buildings. I never died to it so it's not like I care because of that. It was just an incredibly broken looking thing to see.

 

[smashballTaz]

Can I just say that I *love* the kick mechanic and I'm so glad it's back for Dark Souls 3? Feel so good kicking a tough enemy over a cliff. That is all.

 

[HK-47]

I don't think any of the jank stuck out to me until DS3 with some of the enemies you can swing weapons through entire fucking buildings. I never died to it so it's not like I care because of that. It was just an incredibly broken looking thing to see.

Enemies have always had huge leeway on weapons and collision. It certainly isnt a DS3 specific thing.

 

[tuffymon]

I love the series, having a blast in Ds3 currently, but the AI is completely retarded when it comes to ranged (arrow, i cant speak of magic) combat. They use to chase or follow more, now it's shoot them (even if its a head on shot), run 15-20 feet back, hide behind an object annnnddd the mob will reset. Some if you keep doing this will get stuck on invisible boundaries and not be able to move any further, and just take the arrows until they die. Mimics take awhile, but can totally be cheesed as well, and if they reset with their back to you, they may not even stand up again. You're only limited to how many arrows you wish to purchase, but x99 x multiple types, is enough to get through anywhere. The only thing I've found anti-arrow are the giant crabs, as they'll burrow and reappear with full health.

My only other gripe would be the difference in accessory gear for a caster vs a fighter.

 

[jimboton]

Only terrible design decision is giving other players the ability to pollute my gameworld with godawful spoilery messages, and not giving me the ability to block those messages while remaining online for pvp and coop. That shit needs to go from all future From RPGs.

Other than that the games are nearly flawless ;P

 

[HK-47]

Only terrible design decision is giving other players the ability to pollute my gameworld with godawful spoilery messages, and not giving me the ability to block those messages while remaining online for pvp and coop. That shit needs to go from all future From RPGs.

Other than that the games are nearly flawless ;P

But those messages arent forced to be viewed...

 

[jimboton]

But those messages arent forced to be viewed...

So?

Most fulfill their purpouse just by standing next to a suspicions wall, chest, lever, ledge etc. And they're ugly.

 

[TeddyShardik]

Just looking at DS3 there's 2 things I think are actually just bad design decisions. One is how the Darkmoon Blade and Blue Sentinels covenants work. For them to work properly there have to be a lot of players running around as Way of Blue members, a covenant you can join early in the game and offers alnost no incentives. Most people just change to the next covenant they find so there's hardly anyone to protect for most of the game. Couple that with wonky matchmaking and you get people farming silver knights for covenant items.

The second is the decision to prioritise people with the most phantoms in their world for invasions. Invasions are there to balance out the ability to summon other players but when the invader always faces 3 human enemies + possibly the enemies with giant seeds there is absolutely no danger from invaders since the first time they get hit they will just get stunlocked to death by host and phantoms. This also makes it much easier to set up gank squads.

Of course there may be more but these two really impact my enjoyment of the online portion of the game.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

Weapons hitting through walls drives me crazy and really should be fixed by this point. It's awful.

So?

Most fullfill their purpouse just by standing next to a suspicions wall, chest, lever, ledge etc. And they're ugly.

They are pretty damn ugly. Especially when placed on some non flat surface.

 

[zoukka]

Haha I don't agree with any points OP made. All of them are part of what makes these games fun to me. I just think OP doesn't get this series really.

 

[Weltall Zero]

My biggest issue is that as the series went on, it lost the ability to differentiate 'staples' and 'copy and paste everything'. I bet they had it pretty easy with DS3, considering almost the whole game is basically a copy paste job. There's reused assets/enemies/design everywhere and it's super lazy, easily past COD reuse levels.

Are you willing to provide pics demonstrating this blatant asset reuse? If it's "basically a copy paste job" it should be super easy.

Otherwise, the only things that I'd like to nitpick is the invader system. Most of the time, the invader just runs further in the level, and pulls you towards the unkilled enemies in your way. So it turns into a war of attrition (boredom). You either let the invader win by being impatient and going in to be swarmed by the enemies and them, or you just sit there until they get bored and come attack you on a fair 1-1. Half the time they just get bored and quit.

This has literally never happened to me. The invader has always made a run for me; if anything, it's me who sometimes make a run for the boss instead.

 

[RangerX]

I'd argue that in 90% of games ever made the enemies are immune to a lot of the damage and weaknesses that the player is.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Not sure if I would like a more polished soulsgame, especially if it would take another year to make it.

 

[Gator86]

Enemies have always had huge leeway on weapons and collision. It certainly isnt a DS3 specific thing.

I've always felt this is complete and utterly trash. Why bother with their half-assed physics at all then? The game would be so much better if enemy attacks were held to the same standard. It would add strategy to the game that isn't slowly strafe with your shield up or I-frame roll into attacks. It's definitely on my list of bad Souls design choices.

 

[Blinck]

There are a lot of design decisions that are not for the best in these games, but honestly 90% of the ones you talked about aren't bad design decisions or are simply not true, as already stated by some comments here.

Another thing to take into consideration, is that these games are on another level on overall game and level design, so yes, people do forgive a lot of things because those little flaws are obscured by how much better these games are than most other games today when it comes that. (and many other things)


That being said, a design thing that I don't like since Demon's Souls are invisible walls. I understand their concept and I know that they are a throwback to older games and such, but they are just too random and don't make sense within the game world.
I don't mind "hard to find areas that 90% of us won't see on the first playthrough", but I do think that hiding these behind invisible walls just isn't good design. It's lazy and it forces us to be constantly hitting walls all over these games to see if we are missing something. I didn't miss any in Dark Souls 3 because I already know they exist, but for someone new to the games it would be lucky to find many of these. ( even though some are placed in spaces where you will most likely hit the wall due to attacking another thing like a crystal lizard or something, which I thought was pretty smart)


P.S. - If anyone really thinks that the odds are "stacked against them" in this game, just get a bow. You can cheese so much stuff with a bow that you will feel like the game is the one with the odds stacked against it

 

[Csr]

I was raging at that stuff the first time i played Dark Souls but if you think about it it would be extremely hard to make AI that isn't exploitable if the enemies had the same weaknesses as the player.

I still shake my head sometimes at the stuff that happens but what are you going to do, that is how every game is, especially action games that want to challenge the player. There are tons of rules and small imperfections that you can't possible know unless you experience them.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

What swords are you talking about? Because the dual curved sword L2 is bullshit, one hit kill stuff with bleed or buff builds and can confirm off r1s, running r1s and running l1s. I should know, I run a luck/bleed build and I dont like using the warden twinblades because I just murder people.

Hmm, L2 does shit damage and I almost never hit anyone with it, even when trying to combo it from an r1 or running r1. I tried the L2 on the warden twinblades and the dancer swords. It's just too slow and stupidly twirly.

I want knocked down invincibility to be GONE (for both player and enemies). It makes no sense why that is even there period. Also, did you know you can be hit on the ground by certain enemies? They have that "downed attack" I was talking about earlier. Why don't we?

They could allow wake up rolls to have I frames. You would still have to guess the correct wakeup up option.

But... there are? Actually I know I hit enemies that were slowly recovering too. Might have been coop lag though...

Even more so in Bloodborne. I often died while I was knocked down but sometimes I'd get up and recover just in time to avoid it.

So?

Most fulfill their purpouse just by standing next to a suspicions wall, chest, lever, ledge etc. And they're ugly.

That's... well, that's a good point.

Yeah, can't argue with that. An option to stay online for MP but deactivate messages couldn't hurt. I'd keep them on myself as I don't mind them but yeah, why not.

Are you willing to provide pics demonstrating this blatant asset reuse? If it's "basically a copy paste job" it should be super easy.

This has literally never happened to me. The invader has always made a run for me; if anything, it's me who sometimes make a run for the boss instead.

Yeah it's weird. When I invade I only run to the enemies if I'm outnumbered like 3v1 (or 2v1 if the extra phantom is resilient and/or competent at PvP xD otherwise I try to take him out quickly and it usually works). Otherwise I stand my ground and fight and if the host is winning or has the advantage on me, so be it. I don't run to the enemies like a pussy if it's a 1v1.

 

[MoogleWizard]

Most of your points are nitpicks or simply wrong. Just to address a few:

-Enemies can swing their weapons through walls and doors (such as prison gates) to hurt you

You can do the same and hit enemies through walls, so not really a problem IMO.

-Enemies can take an incredible amount of fall damage, but you can barely survive a fall of much lesser height.

There's spells and rings that let you fall from great heights without taking damage.

-Environmental hazards (poison, lava, etc) illogically don't affect enemies.

This is not true. You can damage can kill enemies by leading them into traps and hazards. Some enemies are immune, e.g. fire lizards are immune to fire.

-Working really hard to defeat an enemy to get past a door only to find a dead end with a worthless item.

Any item can be worthless to a certain build/player and useful to another.

-Using a great soul from a boss only to find it was only worth 10,000 when you have souls you have picked up from corpses that are worth the same or more.

Boss souls are meant to be used for equipment. And if they were worth too many souls, it'd be too easy to get overleveled.

-Your blood stains are frequently in the wrong place when you return to retrieve your lost souls

Blood stains are placed the way they are to make sure you can reach them.

Kicking is the same button press as your standard sword swing. You press RB to swing and you have to press RB + up to kick. This can lead to obvious problems and is just awkward.

Never had a problem with this. What obvious problems?

-Enemies that not only snipe you, but fire projectiles that home in on you like a charged plasma pistol shot from Halo.

Homing magic is generally magic that is attainable by the player as well. Knives etc don't home, just like when you'd use them.

-Enemies often have incredibly weird hit boxes and can hit you when they clearly missed by a wide margin.

This is a problem in DS2, yes.

 

[Steel]

Hmm, L2 does shit damage and I almost never hit anyone with it, even when trying to combo it from an r1 or running r1. I tried the L2 on the warden twinblades and the dancer swords. It's just too slow and stupidly twirly.

Any curved sword L2's main function is that it is unparriable. It's hilarious to use in PVP against someone that's obviously going for a parry. Confuses the hell out of them.

On the other hand, it does mostly suck in PVE unless you're up against a lot of enemies and you can either ambush them or time it for when they're all charging you.

 

[Tesser]

As someone who is heavily critical of the [Dark] Souls games (I loved Bloodborne for the record), I will say I've had the most fun in 3 despite there still being issues and questionable inclusions. I can understand/appreciate the near-universal acclaim the series has received from fans and critics alike, but God help me if I even try to have a conversation on what, I FEEL, the series gets horribly wrong or doesn't, IMHO, deserve to be heralded as high as it is.

But alas, I gave up on having a conversation with "fans" a long time ago. 'decisions that seem ignored by most of us' seems like a reasonable assumption, though I won't go as far as to say all Souls fans are unwilling to have a conversation, though that instance seems rarer to find than it ever has been. I agree with some of OP's arguments, though not all. DS3 must be doing something right (hint: it's not the PvP) if I keep coming back to it on a every-other-daily basis.

 

[jay]

I am ready to be down on DS3 after generally being underwhelmed by it, but the OP was not very impressive. Controls for kicking sucks, that is certainly true. I never accidentally kicked bosses in DS1 but have done it a hundred times in 3.

 

[takriel]

As someone who is heavily critical of the [Dark] Souls games (I loved Bloodborne for the record), I will say I've had the most fun in 3 despite there still being issues and questionable inclusions. I can understand/appreciate the near-universal acclaim the series has received from fans and critics alike, but God help me if I even try to have a conversation on what, I FEEL, the series gets horribly wrong or doesn't, IMHO, deserve to be heralded as high as it is.

But alas, I gave up on having a conversation with "fans" a long time ago. 'decisions that seem ignored by most of us' seems like a reasonable assumption, though I won't go as far as to say all Souls fans are unwilling to have a conversation, though that instance seems rarer to find than it ever has been. I agree with some of OP's arguments, though not all. DS3 must be doing something right (hint: it's not the PvP) if I keep coming back to it on a every-other-daily basis.

Please, by any means, try us. Believe it or not, there's actually a few of us that are sane enough to debate with

 

[Steel]

As someone who is heavily critical of the [Dark] Souls games (I loved Bloodborne for the record), I will say I've had the most fun in 3 despite there still being issues and questionable inclusions. I can understand/appreciate the near-universal acclaim the series has received from fans and critics alike, but God help me if I even try to have a conversation on what, I FEEL, the series gets horribly wrong or doesn't, IMHO, deserve to be heralded as high as it is.

But alas, I gave up on having a conversation with "fans" a long time ago. 'decisions that seem ignored by most of us' seems like a reasonable assumption, though I won't go as far as to say all Souls fans are unwilling to have a conversation, though that instance seems rarer to find than it ever has been. I agree with some of OP's arguments, though not all. DS3 must be doing something right (hint: it's not the PvP) if I keep coming back to it on a every-other-daily basis.

There are things to be down on all souls games for. I mean, there's bed of chaos is DS1, Lost Izalith in general, and those freaking anor londo archers in that one part and the fact that multiplayer was a mess a long time after launch. In Demon Souls there's item burden and the lack of covenants to be annoyed about. In DS2 agility and a bunch of other things. In DS3 the covenants are weak, and some outright don't work(can be applied to the gravelord covenant in DS1), and a lot of stuff is recycled from past games. Not to mention the mind boggling decision to go from leveling up at bonfires in DS1 back to hub lady in DS2+3. And the list goes on and on... And Dark Souls fans debate these problems.

But just because you have a complaint it doesn't mean people are going to agree with you on it, or the magnitude of it, or that it hurts the experience.

 

[Sora the Cat]

I think he's referring to when you first get to the bridge, if you just normally walk across it, the dragon swoops down and easily catches you with the fire attack. You kinda already have to be running to make it down that little stair case and even then good chance he catches you, but it's not a one hit kill iirc, it needs to hit twice to kill, but you can't just stand in the fire after you get back up either, you need to book it. So the second hit of it never lands.

The only attack that does ohko is when he lands on the actual bridge to come after you and he rises straight up into the air and breathes fire right down on you, if you're right under him it's a one hit kill at that point in the game,

I'm talking about the first time you get there as well, if you get hit by the fire, you get up and realize it's a big enemy that you clearly can't kill at that point and go down the stairs. Honestly, that dragon never killed me the first time I saw it.

 

[Mr Git]

Only thing on that list was kicking when I'm trying to R1. I realize that it's entirely my fault, but for some reason I only ran into the problem in DS3.

I've also noticed this, particularly in PvP. The kick used to feel like a very intentional button press, whereas in DS3 I find I'm occasionally flailing some kicks about in the middle of combos. Sometimes just use Horse Hoof ring for bonus serendipity.

re: weapons clanking on walls: I actually don't think this happens enough for players - I seem to remember this happening more frequently in the older games, although should probably test/research that. Get invaded by someone with a large sweeping weapon with no thrust attacks? Lure them into a narrow corridor.

 

[Tesser]

And Dark Souls fans debate these problems.

Not where I go; fans prefer to spout endless lines of "git gud" (memes aside) as a defense mechanism out of some manufactured belief that I don't like Souls games because of the difficulty. If anything, the 'difficulty' is one of the things I respect about Souls games and to be frank, I don't consider it hard at all (and said difficulty is more than just attributes governing health/attack/defense).

But just because you have a complaint it doesn't mean people are going to agree with you on it, or the magnitude of it, or that it hurts the experience.

...and this is why I don't/won't raise my concerns, because of people like yourself who think I'm of the mind-set that I can't comprehend difference in opinion. Are you seriously suggesting I'm that blind/stupid? I'm well aware of the wide spectrum of views on this series - those who love it, those who hate it, those are in the middle - but just so you know, I'm not one of those 'my opinion is right; your opinion is wrong' types you regularly see on the web. I just want to converse [politely] on the Souls games because I'd be lying if I said i don't discussing the series (in anything other than its "lore") to be fascinating. But I won't waste my breath if you're just going to paint me in a particular way.

 

[Pantaghana]

The only thing I consider bullshit is fighting large bosses with thrusting weapons, most attacks ending up as ineffectual threats to their groin. The only time I wish I could target specific bodyparts so I can properly poke them in the knee.

 

[Steel]

Not where I go; fans prefer to spout endless lines of "git gud" (memes aside) as a defense mechanism out of some manufactured belief that I don't like Souls games because of the difficulty. If anything, the 'difficulty' is one of the things I respect about Souls games and to be frank, I don't consider it hard at all (and said difficulty is more than just attributes governing health/attack/defense).



...and this is why I don't/won't raise my concerns, because of people like yourself who think I'm of the mind-set that I can't comprehend difference in opinion. Are you seriously suggesting I'm that blind/stupid? I'm well aware of the wide spectrum of views on this series - those who love it, those who hate it, those are in the middle - but just so you know, I'm not one of those 'my opinion is right; your opinion is wrong' types you regularly see on the web. I just want to converse [politely] on the Souls games because I'd be lying if I said i don't discussing the series (in anything other than its "lore") to be fascinating. But I won't waste my breath if you're just going to paint me in a particular way.

I'm not assuming anything about you by saying that, but there's a lot of "fuck souls fans for not agreeing with my complaints and giving reasons that they don't agree" around.

But as to the "Not where I go" detail, you must not go into any of the dark souls threads on gaf. Hell, there are probably 10 times more negative DS 2 threads where ds fans complain than positive, and there are quite a lot of DS3 complaint threads. Hell, half the lore thread for Dark Souls 3 is complaints about one thing or another and the OT is full of criticism of various design decisions.

 

[daninthemix]

My main issue is poise - we have none, but PVE enemies like Darkwraiths, Lothric / Silver knights and various others have a absolute ton.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Most of your points are nitpicks or simply wrong.

Your post is bullshit on a fair number of points.

- Enemies can frequently attack through terrain where player weapons bounce. This is easily demonstrable.

- Many hard to navigate to items are virtually worthless compared to the effort to reach them. Whether this is bad design or not is up for debate, but whether it happens or not isn't.

- If you have never had issues with accidental kicking or failure to do so when trying, then you're in the minority. It's been mentioned in threads on this very forum, for goodness' sakes.

- Enemy arrows have a homing element to them. Player arrows do not.

 

[jacob armitage]

Dark Souls is far more than a sum of its parts, and one of the rare games where its faults are a core part of its identity and charm. The series would likely lose part of each if all those faults were addressed.

 

[Noray]

OP is a bad armchair game designer, not to mention wrong about many things. If enemies couldn't hit through walls you could cheese them even more easily than you already can due to their size. If enemies weren't invincible when getting up you could cheese-stun everything to death (you still can, you just need to actually, you know, learn timing). Enemies don't have actual invincibility frames from attacks, by and large. Enemies ARE affected by lava. NPC phantoms ARE affected by swamps.

I could go on but OP is clearly just salty and wants to vent about some triflin shit.