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[Grief.exe]

They most likely never existed at that fidelity beyond the demo that was shown. It's not something they simply "turned off". If they had the whole game at that fidelity, they would have released it as such.

Yes, it seems some of those graphical features only existed in that specific vertical slice and the offshoot of that engine design.

They likely stopped development on such features early as they realized 2/3 of their target demographic would be unable to support them. So the majority of the game was never designed with those features.

Hopefully we will see them in subsequent releases.

 

[DrROBschiz]

They most likely never existed at that fidelity beyond the demo that was shown. It's not something they simply "turned off". If they had the whole game at that fidelity, they would have released it as such.

Yup.

I can agree with this

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Hopefully From turns on the missing areas for the PC release, builds we have seen thus far are labeled 'preview,' or a later patch.

If From will not turn them on, someone will do the job for them I'm sure of it. The only question is when.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the Souls games for what they are even without awesome lighting and stuff, but after that first footage I just can't look at DSII, it just doesn't look as good as it should, damn. I already hate From for showing the new lighting engine.

 

[bob_arctor]

It's not outside the realm of possibility that modding teams will step up to improve the graphical appearance of the game down the road. Given some of the really bad stuff in bits of DS2 I hope that happens.

I eagerly await my Earthen Peak Texture Overlords.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

I find a deep irony in all the people casting aspersions on the guys at From accusing them of being "lazy" or "deceptive" and then claiming some moral high ground and not buying the game because of their facile judgements.

From an ethical point of view, I find it way more abhorrent to casually judge hard working people in a situition you know nothing about than the removal/down grade of some lighting engine. The "monster" is not someone who releases a game that has downgraded graphics. The "monster" in my view is the dude who doesn't know shit about what he is talking about and calls people working 80+ hours a week lazy or scammers.

Removing the better lighting from the console versions because the consoles chug? Understandable.

Removing the better lighting from the PC version because...err...the consoles chug? Yah, nah, bullshit attitude from the devs taking their audience for granted. It's as simple as that.

Their press release makes it quite obvious that the initial gameplay footage fell somewhere between a version of the game running on decent hardware, and an extravagant extended pile of bullshottery. Either one is total bullshit.

If you're so concerned for the well-being of the devs, then why are you okay with them putting in the extra effort to create what is essentially a completely superfluous vertical slice with better visuals?

If they couldn't achieve those visuals then they shouldn't have marketed them. If the graphics they were aiming were so completely unreasonable(as so many of the FROM loyalists have suddenly begun to claim out of nowhere) then why even expend precious resources on them?

Going from what the initial gameplay showed to a horrid mess of tiled textures is a sure sign of poor planning at some point in the dev process. The gap in quality is simply too vast. Someone fucked up, or the intention to deceive was there from the beginning. Evidently, this is of no concern to a bothersome amount of players. Depressing.

 

[Grief.exe]

Removing the better lighting from the console versions because the consoles chug? Understandable.

Removing the better lighting from the PC version because...err...the consoles chug? Yah, nah, bullshit attitude from the devs taking their audience for granted. It's as simple as that.

More likely attributed to budgetary concerns where they didn't have the overhead to justify investing in features that would only be seen by ~30% of their target audience.

That is not a smart business move.

 

[Havel]

They most likely never existed at that fidelity beyond the demo that was shown. It's not something they simply "turned off". If they had the whole game at that fidelity, they would have released it as such.

For the lighting at least, a few people have said that the full game was playable with the lighting intact. Just at a really shitty frame rate.

I think what happened was, From realised the frame rate was not acceptable on the console version and scrapped it very late in development. A by product of this was that a big gameplay mechanic would also disappear: the torch system.

Fast forward to the PC version and they realise if they keep the lighting on the more than capable PC, then a major gameplay feature will exist on one version and not on another, creating essentially two different kind of play styles.

If this were just about graphics, then I have no doubt it would have been included in the PC version.

 

[_machine]

If From will not turn them on, someone will do the job for them I'm sure of it. The only question is when.

Sorry to be a buzzkill, but it's quite unlikely that any modder can do it since it's not exactly a simple job:

I think it needs to be repeated that the new lighting engine was never removed, it still has all the features they've shown and it runs on all platforms. What they did is tone down all the performance heavy aspects of it in the levels themselves, dynamic lights and shadowcasters etc. So they absolutely delivered on the promise of a new, dynamic lighting engine even if the end result is less than stellar.

Secondly, do not get your hopes up about getting the detailed lights back through modding. The reason is that the lighting is embed in to the level and assets data, which is extremely hard for us to access without the tools FROM has. In itself it's not something that is huge thing to do with the tools, but it means that supporting the game would be near-impossible for a team the size of FROM (basically it would mean increasing the amount of possible bugs, yet almost doubling the work needed on patches).

Changing the models in the levels would also be very hard without the tools, even if the assets are still in the game files (which is actually quite likely, removing unused assets often isn't a huge priority during the last crunch). Given the quality of some areas it's also quite likely that no all of them even had a proper polish pass done or the downgrade was a really quick hack job back to the "level layout" stage of quality (basically the level is playable and complete, but is graphically missing most of the unique assets and textures and needs the final polish pass to look good).

Texture swapping is pretty much the only thing that could be done in relative ease, but for me it's definitely not the biggest factor in DS2's graphics, though better textures in some areas certainly wouldn't hurt.

Also, those spouting personal attacks such as "lazy devs" and "fuck from" should do some reading:
Working in the Games Industry: a job to die for?

These people really give their all to deliver the best game they can and sacrifice a lot for that dream. But game development is a hard mistress and a lot of shit happens, most of which we never hear about, and sometimes you just can't deliver what you hoped you would.

That said, there are problems in the industry that should be answered and these things happen because of human error as well, but that's an entirely different topic.

Removing the better lighting from the PC version because...err...the consoles chug? Yah, nah, bullshit attitude from the devs taking their audience for granted. It's as simple as that.

See the above quote.

Their press release makes it quite obvious that the initial gameplay footage fell somewhere between a version of the game running on decent hardware, and an extravagant extended pile of bullshottery. Either one is total bullshit.

If you're so concerned for the well-being of the devs, then why are you okay with them putting in the extra effort to create what is essentially a completely superfluous vertical slice with better visuals?

It was what they had done at that point at what was planned, but they failed to realize it properly due to complications in the development. Not because it was made just for marketing (Vertical slice is kind of a proof of concept, a way to evaluate and test what the final game will be like and a set goal for the remaining work. It's not meant to be deceptive in it's nature). Simple and understandable?

Fast forward to the PC version and they realise if they keep the lighting on the more than capable PC, then a major gameplay feature will exist on one version and not on another, creating essentially two different kind of play styles.

If this were just about graphics, then I have no doubt it would have been included in the PC version.

See the above big quote, it's not quite as simple as you might think.

 

[Odrion]

This is the only place I've seen that's been this crazed by the lighting issue and quite frankly it's embarrassing.

 

[Krusenstern]

For the lighting at least, a few people have said that the full game was playable with the lighting intact. Just at a really shitty frame rate.

I think what happened was, From realised the frame rate was not acceptable on the console version and scrapped it very late in development. A by product of this was that a big gameplay mechanic would also disappear: the torch system.

Fast forward to the PC version and they realise if they keep the lighting on the more than capable PC, then a major gameplay feature will exist on one version and not on another, creating essentially two different kind of play styles.

If this were just about graphics, then I have no doubt it would have been included in the PC version.

Right. Completely forgot about that. I believe some Youtuber (can't recall the name, not ENB) who worked on the official guide said that he had the full version with the pre-release lighting and then received the downgraded build later on.

That makes me even more mad that they scrapped the lighting from the PC version for the sake of parity.
So. Much. Hate.

 

[Grief.exe]

Right. Completely forgot about that. I believe some Youtuber (can't recall the name, not ENB) who worked on the official guide said that he had the full version with the pre-release lighting and then received the downgraded build later on.

That makes me even more mad that they scrapped that from the PC version for the sake of parity.
So. Much. Hate.

Erik Kane from Forbes actually reported that from an inside source.

 

[-Alligator-]

One thing that really annoys me about the PC version is the object pop-in. Do you guys think an SSD might eliminate this issue?

Also I wonder if someone who played the console version could tell me, if those broken animations seen in the giantbomb preview on those zombie enemies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2xPah553Ew&feature=youtu.be&t=12m24s) is just a rare bug or if this is normal in DaS2.

 

[nded]

I think people are getting lost in a lot of verbage and the confusing PR. There is a lot of dynamic lighting in the game, even on the consoles, but it seems that in the original previews it was only dynamic lighting. However, the final retail release seems to be a mix of dynamic lighting/shadows and a lot of pre-baked lighting which is the source of much consternation. The pre-baked lighting changes the atmosphere and look of the game and more importantly, impacts the gameplay because certain area's and scenarios no longer work the way they were originally presented to us.

A lot of areas don't even have baked lighting. They're rather flat looking and obviously designed to receive dynamic lights.

 

[InfiniDragon]

Judging by all the screenshots and videos I've seen from this game this doesn't look to be the best looking game in the series. Dark Souls has far more consistent graphic quality and looks overall better than DkS2.

Judging by actually playing both to completion instead of looking at images on a website...I disagree.

DSII is the best looking in the series IMO. The rough point graphically (Shaded Woods) is still better than DS' rough point (Lost Izalith), the frame rate is better throughout and the high points (DSII late game spoiler:

Spoiler

Dragon Aerie and Dragon Shrine

) look incredible.

 

[Odrion]

Those shots with the SweetFX looks rad as all hell as well.

Pretty excited, I'm glad that I only played a chunk of DS2 and waited.

 

[epmode]

One thing that really annoys me about the PC version is the object pop-in. Do you guys think an SSD might eliminate this issue?

The few clips I've seen about the object pop-in make it look like it's unrelated to performance issues with the HDD. It's more like certain objects only pop into place when the player passes an invisible line in the level. This is pretty common in some games and solid state drives don't help at all.

MAYBE I"M TOTALLY MISTAKEN THO

 

[Krusenstern]

This is the only place I've seen that's been this crazed by the lighting issue and quite frankly it's embarrassing.

It's embarrassing that people downplay this issue.

 

[epmode]

It's embarrassing that people downplay this issue.

Oftentimes the same people that drag publishers like Ubisoft through the mud for similar but lesser offences.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

_machine
Oh, I see. Well, if it is possible to made an ENB mod from the ground up for this game, I'm sure someone will made it and there is no need to have the tools which From has.
Btw, I don't care about the textures that much cuz a good lighting and shadows system can make even not so great looking game look awesome without 2K textures, Skyrim is a clear example of this.

 

[soontroll]

Right. Completely forgot about that. I believe some Youtuber (can't recall the name, not ENB) who worked on the official guide said that he had the full version with the pre-release lighting and then received the downgraded build later on.

That makes me even more mad that they scrapped the lighting from the PC version for the sake of parity.
So. Much. Hate.

Wait is this legit? I hope not...

 

[-Alligator-]

The few clips I've seen about the object pop-in make it look like it's unrelated to performance issues with the HDD. It's more like certain objects only pop into place when the player passes an invisible line in the level. This is pretty common in some games and solid state drives don't help at all.

MAYBE I"M TOTALLY MISTAKEN THO

Well I assume that when you activate a trigger in the game, the object's model is loaded from the hard drive into memory and the game starts rendering it. If that's the case an SSD could reduce this issue.

 

[Krusenstern]

Oftentimes the same people that drag publishers like Ubisoft through the mud for similar but lesser offences.

I really hate that. Double standards everywhere. People go too far with their fanboyism if they start to downplay or dismiss problems.

 

[Havel]

Erik Kane from Forbes actually reported that from an inside source.

A German Spy on Youtube also said the same thing (the guy who wrote the official strat guide with ENB).

 

[Grief.exe]

I really hate that. Double standards everywhere. People go too far with their fanboyism if they start to downplay or dismiss problems.

From isn't really a true AAA developer though, so do those same standards for graphical fidelity apply to them?

From has been able to eke out a profit targeting a niche market for decades. The Souls series is their largest property and this has been their largest production yet, but they are obviously playing on the safe side.

 

[Krusenstern]

Wait is this legit? I hope not...

Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tbLxKKCNQM&feature=youtu.be&t=1h52s

 

[Lathentar]

It's embarrassing that people downplay this issue.

As others have said, they didn't remove the lighting system. They removes the lights themselves because it's ONE game on multiple platforms. Removing a dynamic light from an area removes that dynamic light for all platforms. Dynamic lights are probably no different than enemies in their area data. You don't expect the enemies to be in different areas based on what platform you're playing on.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Well then the different trailers in different regions kind of falls in line with how marketing was fragmented globally

Narrative fits.

So deception is fine as long as it's not employed towards americans.

 

[Krusenstern]

From isn't really a true AAA developer though, so do those same standards for graphical fidelity apply to them?

From has been able to eke out a profit targeting a niche market for decades. The Souls series is their largest property and this has been their largest production yet, but they are obviously playing on the safe side.

They made us believe for months that the final game would look as good as the early footage back then. And to be honest it didn't look out of the realms of possibility. There was nothing outstanding about the early graphics. I wasn't expecting anything more than that.
I only expected what I saw. And they failed to deliever on that. It's so mindbogglingly ridiculous.

 

[epmode]

From isn't really a true AAA developer though, so do those same standards for graphical fidelity apply to them?

Releasing virtually no promotional material of a representative build before release is pretty bad regardless of the company that does it.

I'm glad that they finally showed the PC build even though I'm disappointed with it.

 

[Drakendodertje]

It's embarrassing that people downplay this issue.

Eventhough i don't think the issue should withold people to buy and enjoy this game for what it is, i agree.

This kind of hype-marketing is spreading like a cancer throughout the industry and should be stopped. This E3 i can't imagine being superexcited about any trailer or gameplay-showcase because i feel i just can't trust those images anymore unless they're a month before release.

For me, Alien: Colonial Marines was my first unpleasant experience with this phenomenon. I actually thought it would be an isolated case because of the major shitstorm it brought upon the developers.

Being vocal and putting their marketing tactics to shame in front of the public eye seems vital.

 

[Grief.exe]

Releasing virtually no promotional material of a representative build before release is pretty bad regardless of the company that does it.

January-March they only showed off representative material at trade shows, demos, screenshots, trailers, etc. There are some inconsistencies here but these seem to be due to miscommunication between the community/PR team.

They released a playable beta on PS3 that was very similar to the retail build. They did remove some dynamic lighting for performance reasons and increased the brightness slightly.

 

[Ogimachi]

Guess I'll wait for a downgrade on the price, then. DS1 was a shitty port, but at least it was cheap. This is unacceptable.

 

[soontroll]

Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tbLxKKCNQM&feature=youtu.be&t=1h52s

Interesting. Also, lol at 'decelerated'.

 

[RK9039]

Interesting. Also, lol at 'decelerated'.

PS4 will accelerate the graffics soon.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Eventhough i don't think the issue should withold people to buy and enjoy this game for what it is, i agree.

I will buy the game no matter what, but prefer much better lighting system and there is no reason for the most features to be turned off on PC, absolutely no reason. If you releasing a PC version then make sure that it uses the capabilities of this platform by max.

 

[BennyBlanco]

PS4 will accelerate the graffics soon.

Starting to think this will happen too.

 

[paperspace]

I will buy the game no matter what, but prefer much better lighting system and there is no reason for the most features to be turned off on PC, absolutely no reason.

Even if it's broken and unplayable?

 

[Krusenstern]

Interesting. Also, lol at 'decelerated'.

To think they "sacrificed" the graphics on the PC version too because of performance issues on consoles...CONSOLES...

PS4 will accelerate the graffics soon.

And that in return will accelerate the backlash from PC gamers.

 

[Servbot24]

The pre-baked lighting changes the atmosphere and look of the game and more importantly, impacts the gameplay because certain area's and scenarios no longer work the way they were originally presented to us.

Good thing too, looked like an absolute chore to play.

 

[epmode]

They released a playable beta on PS3 that was very similar to the retail build. They did remove some dynamic lighting for performance reasons and increased the brightness slightly.

I think the reason this particular issue bugs me is that the lighting downgrade honestly affects the game. I didn't follow the development very closely but I always liked the torch idea. Knowing that it was removed purely because of performance issues with ancient hardware is very disappointing.

It's so obvious that certain areas were designed with the improved lighting in mind that I get distracted whenever I see evidence. Poor contrast due to the unintended ambient lighting increase, small repeating textures in areas that should have been pitch black, etc. The downgrade was obviously rushed to meet the console ship date and it seemed reasonable to hope that From would undo the damage for the PC release. I didn't expect it, though.

Now I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and we get some of the improvements in a PS4/XBone port.

 

[eot]

It's undeniably shitty of them to show that initial reveal stuff and then sweep it under the rug, but on the other hand they're letting people show off the PC version a good 1-2 weeks in advance of its release. I haven't bought it yet but if I buy it now (I will) I know what I'm getting, so I don't feel deceived. Also, I bought their shitty ass port last time which I think was a bigger affront to us than this promotional stuff. Supporting their game is more important to me than not supporting their bad decisions, we complained last time and they listened. Hopefully they get the message this time around too.

 

[Servbot24]

I will buy the game no matter what, but prefer much better lighting system and there is no reason for the most features to be turned off on PC, absolutely no reason.

Tell us more about your behind the scenes perspective on DaSII development.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Even if it's broken and unplayable?

It won't be broken and unplayable.

 

[Havel]

To think they "sacrificed" the graphics on the PC version too because of performance issues on consoles...CONSOLES...

And that in return will accelerate the backlash from PC gamers.

My theory makes more sense of it:

Fast forward to the PC version and they realise if they keep the lighting on the more than capable PC, then a major gameplay feature will exist on one version and not on another, creating essentially two different kind of play styles.

If this were just about graphics, then I have no doubt it would have been included in the PC version.

 

[Blargonaut]

PS3 player here.

To all the PC 'elites'; made this just for you:

Join us in the un-Dark.

 

[dsk1210]

I am a huge pc gamer nowadays, but refusing to buy this game is like knocking back Super Mario 3 because it does not do parallax scrolling/mapping.

We have are going to have the best version of an amazing game, lap it up dudes.

 

[Grief.exe]

PS3 player here.

To all the PC 'elites'; made this just for you:

Join us in the un-Dark.

I will never join you in any game below 20 FPS. Hell, I barely tolerate South Park at 30.

 

[Krusenstern]

My theory makes more sense of it:

But the way it would have been on PC is the way they actually intended. They held interviews talking about the new lighting system and the torch gameplay mechanics which were supposed to play a major role in that game. Now it's nowhere to be found in either version or only in a very limited/scaled down extent.

But hey! At least we have parity now, right?

PS3 player here.

To all the PC 'elites'; made this just for you:

Join us in the un-Dark.

10/10
Great GIF.

 

[soontroll]

PS3 player here.

To all the PC 'elites'; made this just for you:

Join us in the un-Dark.

Emerald Herald in a bunny costume? I'm in.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

If this were just about graphics, then I have no doubt it would have been included in the PC version.

But why PC version must suffer if PS3/X360 just can't handle new lighting engine in full force?