Dark Souls II - Graphics Comparison - PC Preview

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Nov 8, 2005
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Well, good to see people starting to cheer up now that the saviour has returned, hehe.

People are too hooked to even wait for a discount.
I think everyone is fully aware of your agenda by now. You're upset with From/BN. We get it. This thread is for the PC version comparison, and people are getting excited as details keep trickling in. What's the point in trying to steer the discussion back to your bitter rant?

That were some pretty heavy "door trimming changes" and they bragged about the graphics of this game only to under-deliver.
We can never end this discussion.
From did some heavy optimisation.
BN continued to market an older build.
The final game delivered in some areas but not in others.

I'm not sure what "discussion" you're trying to have, but I'm pretty sure it ended long ago.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Jun 7, 2004
19,552
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Space is the Place
Funnily enough all this talk is just making me which Dark Souls 1 on steam would get the f**king patch to remove GFWL. I want to see if Durante's fixes get broken or - Gwyn forbid - FROM takes the opportunity to fix the resolution themselves.

I want to play it but don't want to dick around with GFWL in its death throes.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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I think everyone is fully aware of your agenda by now. You're upset with From/BN. We get it. This thread is for the PC version comparison, and people are getting excited as details keep trickling in. What's the point in trying to steer the discussion back to your bitter rant?
I'm not steering anything. I simply made a response to that comment like many others. It's just that mine seemed to have hurt your feelings towards From.
 

Haunted

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Nov 16, 2006
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I just re-read the agreement I signed, and it's actually simpler to explain than I thought, because I can tell you that I'm working on an article about the technical aspects of Dark Souls II PC for PC Gamer.

And that's all I'll say (and can say) before the article.
Earning money to analyse it, earning clicks for PC Gamer, distributing knowledge to the community. Seems like a winning play all around.


Well, except for Digital Foundry, maybe. :lol
 
Nov 30, 2011
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Funnily enough all this talk is just making me which Dark Souls 1 on steam would get the f**king patch to remove GFWL. I want to see if Durante's fixes get broken or - Gwyn forbid - FROM takes the opportunity to fix the resolution themselves.

I want to play it but don't want to dick around with GFWL in its death throes.
Is there a concrete date when DS1 is losing GFWL and going to Steamworks?

DS1 has been on my backburner for about a year now since I first got the PC version around Halloween 2012 and I've been feeling like getting back into it to finish it. But if the transition from GFWL to Steamworks is going to mean a whole bunch of garbage with my save game and so forth, I might be tempted to just keep DS1 on the backburner until the switch happens.
 

Gvaz

Banned
Apr 7, 2010
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Is there a concrete date when DS1 is losing GFWL and going to Steamworks?

DS1 has been on my backburner for about a year now since I first got the PC version around Halloween 2012 and I've been feeling like getting back into it to finish it. But if the transition from GFWL to Steamworks is going to mean a whole bunch of garbage with my save game and so forth, I might be tempted to just keep DS1 on the backburner until the switch happens.
No concrete anything. A simple "we're looking into options" is the only thing said.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Nov 8, 2005
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I'm not steering anything. I simply made a response to that comment like many others. It's just that mine seemed to have hurt your feelings towards From.
"People are too hooked to even wait for a discount" - that kind of comment is just trollish and you're playing like a broken record trying to get people to see the error of their ways in supporting "disgusting business practices".

Then you try and get a rise out of me and my feelings? Not everyone on this board is an impressionable teen, you know. Just saying, it might be time to give it a rest until you actually get your hands on the PC version, or wait for the Durante/PC Gamer report (as that sounds like it'll be a very trustworthy source).
 
Jun 6, 2010
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"People are too hooked to even wait for a discount" - that kind of comment is just trollish and you're playing like a broken record trying to get people to see the error of their ways in supporting "disgusting business practices".

Then you try and get a rise out of me and my feelings? Not everyone on this board is an impressionable teen, you know. Just saying, it might be time to give it a rest until you actually get your hands on the PC version, or wait for the Durante/PC Gamer report (as that sounds like it'll be a very trustworthy source).
There's nothing to wait for. We already know what we need about the state of the PC port. It's the console version with standard PC improvements. From/Namco keep being the same dishonest companies. And most gamers don't care about this and will keep paying full price for their games. Nothing has changed. Now, if you're going to get angry every time I post my unpopular opinion then I suggest you simply add me to your ignore list.
 
Apr 27, 2011
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"People are too hooked to even wait for a discount" - that kind of comment is just trollish and you're playing like a broken record trying to get people to see the error of their ways in supporting "disgusting business practices".
People on both sides of the issue are making comments like that, don't just ignore that.

It would be best if we could get back to the topic, but that is on both sides, not just the ones that are upset with From.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Mar 29, 2009
28,102
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Decent textures over last gen geometry.
That's pretty much the story of Dark Souls 1 and even Demon's Souls -- good textures and fantastic art direction covering up a shitty engine.

This is why I'd love to see people use the new UE4 kits or the CryEngine kit to re-engineer scenes from the Souls games. All I've seen is one CryEngine recreation of Undead Parish.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Nov 8, 2005
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There's nothing to wait for. We already know what we need about the state of the PC port. It's the console version with standard PC improvements. From/Namco keep being the same dishonest companies. And most gamers don't care about this and will keep paying full price for their games. Nothing has changed. Now, if you're going to get angry every time I post my unpopular opinion then I suggest you simply add me to your ignore list.
I'm not getting angry mate, and I don't add people to the ignore list in case one day an interesting post catches my eye.

If there's nothing to wait for and you've already made the comparison between PC and console, then what are you doing in this thread other than spreading slander and belittling peoples' purchasing decisions?

People on both sides of the issue are making comments like that, don't just ignore that.

It would be best if we could get back to the topic, but that is on both sides, not just the ones that are upset with From.
Could you give an example of this? If you're talking about people making drive-by "Praise Durante!" and "PC version saved!" comments then I kind of agree with you, but to be honest that man's opinion is pretty valuable when it comes to this particular topic.
 
Apr 27, 2011
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Could you give an example of this? If you're talking about people making drive-by "Praise Durante!" and "PC version saved!" comments then I kind of agree with you, but to be honest that man's opinion is pretty valuable when it comes to this particular topic.
No no, I'm talking about some people widely bashing anyone who is upset with the situation with From. Pretty much the same thing some others are doing saying that supporters are sheep. Provoking comments are happening both ways is what I'm saying.
 

erawsd

Member
Apr 5, 2012
7,188
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Bellflower, CA
There's nothing to wait for. We already know what we need about the state of the PC port. It's the console version with standard PC improvements. From/Namco keep being the same dishonest companies. And most gamers don't care about this and will keep paying full price for their games. Nothing has changed. Now, if you're going to get angry every time I post my unpopular opinion then I suggest you simply add me to your ignore list.
This is true, most of us don't care.

It isn't because we're ok with being "deceived", its because that reveal trailer was never the reason we were interested in this game. If it weren't for GAF I wouldn't even be aware of the downgrade -- I had forgotten all about that old trailer. I'm buying it because the first two Souls games are two of the best games released in the decade.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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I'm not getting angry mate, and I don't add people to the ignore list in case one day an interesting post catches my eye.

If there's nothing to wait for and you've already made the comparison between PC and console, then what are you doing in this thread other than spreading slander and belittling peoples' purchasing decisions?
Saying I'm slandering people IS slander. It's true that even among those that care a great deal about this mess there are some that in the end just go with the flow.

This is true, most of us don't care.

It isn't because we're ok with being "deceived", its because that reveal trailer was never the reason we were interested in this game. If it weren't for GAF I wouldn't even be aware of the downgrade -- I had forgotten all about that old trailer. I'm buying it because the first two Souls games are two of the best games released in the decade.
My comment doesn't apply to everyone. Clearly there are those that don't care about the graphics or the whole mess. But there are others who do care and still pay full money. It's up to them no doubt but the consequences affect everybody in the long run so atr0cious's comment is completely true.
 
Jun 25, 2006
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They aren't. Check out any of the preview videos.
The preview videos of the PC version don't really say much about the shadows since on consoles they weren't particularly bad in the early environments in the first place... relative to how shadows would look later. Shadow quality is very inconsistent; sometimes they would look acceptable in busy locations, sometimes they'd look like shit or not present at all (when talking about player-made shadows) in seemingly empty places. It's confusing and I'd like to think they won't be so wildly different on PC depending on which area you visit, but I'm not getting my hopes up with the comparison videos from GameSpot, IGN et cetera already having shown that textures are virtually identical beyond the game itself running on a higher resolution.
 
Oct 9, 2013
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The light sources are the same and the lizards are down there as shown here:

http://a.pomf.se/iysufg.webm

The only difference is that the area looks like crap now.
Again, no: the two images to which I responded show a location in which, in the retail game, there is no lighting coming from the ground area, play the game and see it for yourself.

As for the webm, the area depicted looks completely different not just for lights and shadows: in the retail game there's no upper light source that illuminates the character from the top, and apart from the difference in contrast (darker shadows, brighter lights) textures and geometry are completely different.
 

erawsd

Member
Apr 5, 2012
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My comment doesn't apply to everyone. Clearly there are those that don't care about the graphics or the whole mess. But there are others who do care and still pay full money. It's up to them no doubt but the consequences affect everybody in the long run so atr0cious's comment is completely true.
The fact that those people still buy the game probably means that they care more about playing the game than looking at it. Eitherway, their voices were heard and those concerns were acknowledged by Namco, From, the press, and the community.

I don't know what consequences you are talking about but I hope the consequence of all these "downgradatons" is that GAF stops its obsession over graphics.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
Nov 8, 2005
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No no, I'm talking about some people widely bashing anyone who is upset with the situation with From. Pretty much the same thing some others are doing saying that supporters are sheep. Provoking comments are happening both ways is what I'm saying.
Ah okay, I getcha. Though at the risk of being provocative, I would argue that the "sheep"/lies/deception comments are more of an attack, while the bashing you mentioned is more of a defense, as those attacks don't contribute much to the discussion in the first place.

Saying I'm slandering people IS slander. It's true that even among those that care a great deal about this mess there are some that in the end just go with the flow.
I meant slander as in accusing the companies involved of lying and deceiving their audience. If you want to keep going down that route then there might still be a relevant thread you can dig up, or you could make your own if you feel so strongly about it. Either way, it has little bearing on the main topic of this thread.

My comment doesn't apply to everyone. Clearly there are those that don't care about the graphics or the whole mess. But there are others who do care and still pay full money. It's up to them no doubt but the consequences affect everybody in the long run so atr0cious's comment is completely true.
So it's the fault of consumers? Do you not think that maybe people have different priorities and standards? Maybe differing opinions on what constitutes a "mess" and what constitutes a good game?

Advocating posts like atr0cious' just goes to show that either you don't really care and are simply trying to create uncertainty, or that your priorities are massively different from the majority of people who play and enjoy these games (for what they are rather than what they could have been).

You're both effectively saying that people who buy Dark Souls 2 are dooming the industry, which is hyperbolic, deconstructive, and misplaced in a thread like this.
 

Garcia

Member
Oct 5, 2006
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Are the rooms missing their props like the console versions?
Yes, geometry stays the same. The only changes for the PC version are stable framerate, higher texture / display resolutions and all the missing shaders in consoles. Expect the same empty uninspired rooms and all the pretty / ugly looking areas.

I don't know what consequences you are talking about but I hope the consequence of all these "downgradatons" is that GAF stops its obsession over graphics.
The situation with Dark Souls 2 was initiated on the developer's side, not the fans. They were the ones who created high expectations for the game and failed to deliver the original intended product. The problem has less to do with graphics than you're thinking. When you play it you'll understand that they delivered a half-baked, loosely connected world. Criticism like this is important.

They are still falsely advertising their game by keeping fake screenshots on the official site and they kept showing the same doctored 60 FPS trailer weeks after the release of the game in consoles.

There are a whole lot of problems undergoing and it's just a reflection of a bigger scenario. It is a situation that has been going on for years and it has to stop.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Jun 8, 2004
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1,450
I wish I was allowed to talk right now and irrefutably demonstrate just how ridiculous the idea that DS2 PC assets aren't improved over their console counterparts is.

...

If anyone ever deserved to play this game with early access on the PC, it certainly is you Durante. Have fun, and I hope it lives up to all of your expectations!
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Sep 10, 2009
29,419
0
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Dark Souls 2 on PC is arguably worse than the console games. I want a 24 FPS lock for a more filmic and realistic experience.
I think it definitely is.

And higher resolution also merely highlights the poor texture work and makes things look worse. Blurry = better. I don't know why people never understand that.
 

zephervack

Member
Apr 12, 2010
7,162
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www.neogaf.com
I hope Durante releases a super light version of DSFix2 with the texture dumping and loading stuff as well as easy Supersampling and hopefully his superior version of AO.

All his posts seem to point that he doesnt have any plans to do anything, seems he is busier in life.

Hopefully a lot of the work on DSfix 1 translates naturally but who knows, what with DS2 using a new engine.
 

Grief.exe

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Jul 11, 2012
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Denver
backloggery.com
GFWL Dead
60 FPS out of the box
Arbitrary resolution support (4K and beyond)
Native M/KB support including mouse driven menus
Dedicated servers
Steamworks including Steam Achievements and lower prices through competing retailers
Incredibly optimized even for low end platforms. Built for PC from the ground up
Higher resolution textures and a loaded video options menu

 

Garcia

Member
Oct 5, 2006
7,332
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1,045
Mexico City
I hope Durante releases a super light version of DSFix2 with the texture dumping and loading stuff as well as easy Supersampling and hopefully his superior version of AO.

All his posts seem to point that he doesnt have any plans to do anything, seems he is busier in life.

Hopefully a lot of the work on DSfix 1 translates naturally but who knows, what with DS2 using a new engine.
Fortunately, the PC port is very competent and delivers a solid ground for future modders to jump in later on. No need to worry about DSFixing the game for basic stuff like higher resolution support.

The one thing I'm expecting the most is a mod that brings the darkness levels back to where they belong. Any other extras (like those you mention) will be more than welcomed.
 

lucebuce12

Member
Dec 7, 2013
22,395
1
420
GFWL Dead
60 FPS out of the box
Arbitrary resolution support (4K and beyond)
Native M/KB support including mouse driven menus
Dedicated servers
Steamworks including Steam Achievements and lower prices through competing retailers
Incredibly optimized even for low end platforms. Built for PC from the ground up
Higher resolution textures and a loaded video options menu
 

nbthedude

Banned
Dec 30, 2011
4,606
0
0
GFWL Dead
60 FPS out of the box
Arbitrary resolution support (4K and beyond)
Native M/KB support including mouse driven menus
Dedicated servers
Steamworks including Steam Achievements and lower prices through competing retailers
Incredibly optimized even for low end platforms. Built for PC from the ground up
Higher resolution textures and a loaded video options menu

Ok it is time to get on Persona 4: Golden this weekend. This game needs to be finished in time for Dark Souls 2.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Jan 23, 2013
18,400
2
0
GFWL Dead
60 FPS out of the box
Arbitrary resolution support (4K and beyond)
Native M/KB support including mouse driven menus
Dedicated servers
Steamworks including Steam Achievements and lower prices through competing retailers
Incredibly optimized even for low end platforms. Built for PC from the ground up
Higher resolution textures and a loaded video options menu

You forgot the most important thing: MODS
 

dsk1210

Member
Sep 2, 2011
1,628
0
0
edinburgh
GFWL Dead
60 FPS out of the box
Arbitrary resolution support (4K and beyond)
Native M/KB support including mouse driven menus
Dedicated servers
Steamworks including Steam Achievements and lower prices through competing retailers
Incredibly optimized even for low end platforms. Built for PC from the ground up
Higher resolution textures and a loaded video options menu

We have at least came along way to making sure the PC has a very well produced japanese game on steam, something that does not happen very often.

I personally can't wait.
 

phantomspiker

Member
Jan 6, 2012
3,920
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GFWL Dead
60 FPS out of the box
Arbitrary resolution support (4K and beyond)
Native M/KB support including mouse driven menus
Dedicated servers
Steamworks including Steam Achievements and lower prices through competing retailers
Incredibly optimized even for low end platforms. Built for PC from the ground up
Higher resolution textures and a loaded video options menu

Garbage port.

Yes I'm kidding, can't fuckin' wait for this game to come out!
 
Jun 6, 2010
1,595
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Again, no: the two images to which I responded show a location in which, in the retail game, there is no lighting coming from the ground area, play the game and see it for yourself.

As for the webm, the area depicted looks completely different not just for lights and shadows: in the retail game there's no upper light source that illuminates the character from the top, and apart from the difference in contrast (darker shadows, brighter lights) textures and geometry are completely different.
That footage is from the retail version. Maybe your playthrough is bugged or you already killed those things and they don't respawn. Also, there's no light coming from the top, it's all coming from the pit bellow. Character illumination was simply better in the tech demo. And no, there are no shadows in the retail version of that area. Shadows are caused by occlusion of light sources but in the retail version light simply goes through objects.

The fact that those people still buy the game probably means that they care more about playing the game than looking at it. Eitherway, their voices were heard and those concerns were acknowledged by Namco, From, the press, and the community.

I don't know what consequences you are talking about but I hope the consequence of all these "downgradatons" is that GAF stops its obsession over graphics.
1) The concerns were heard but merely dismissed by From and Namco and most of the community.
2) By buying the game, at least at full price, after this whole mess, the companies learn that they can get away with it and will probably do it again. Not only do most people not care but they will also defend those companies and attack and mock their critics.
3) Graphics are important for immersion. The DS2 game director says so himself during the game's reveal. Also, there wouldn't be a downgrade discussion had From being honest since the beginning instead of passing off a tech demo as the real thing.

I meant slander as in accusing the companies involved of lying and deceiving their audience. If you want to keep going down that route then there might still be a relevant thread you can dig up, or you could make your own if you feel so strongly about it. Either way, it has little bearing on the main topic of this thread.
It's not slander because it's the truth. From/Namco passed off a tech demo as the real game and only did they acknowledge the downgrade after there was an outrage by the community. Even after that they keep promoting the game everywhere with pre-downgrade media with no disclaimers about the disparities between the footage and the retail game. Sure, I can go to third party sites to find out the truth but that doesn't mean Namco and From aren't lying to their customers.

So it's the fault of consumers? Do you not think that maybe people have different priorities and standards? Maybe differing opinions on what constitutes a "mess" and what constitutes a good game?

Advocating posts like atr0cious' just goes to show that either you don't really care and are simply trying to create uncertainty, or that your priorities are massively different from the majority of people who play and enjoy these games (for what they are rather than what they could have been).

You're both effectively saying that people who buy Dark Souls 2 are dooming the industry, which is hyperbolic, deconstructive, and misplaced in a thread like this.
We consumers express our wills with our wallets. By purchasing the game at full price you reinforce the behavior of these companies. It's as simple as that. You can consider a game to be great while at the same time not supporting the company's shady practices, there's no contradiction there but most people will simply go with the flow and ignore the ramifications of these actions.

Now, you say this discussion has no place in this thread but you're the one who keeps bringing it up after it was buried pages ago.
 
Feb 27, 2013
362
0
0
GFWL Dead
60 FPS out of the box
Arbitrary resolution support (4K and beyond)
Native M/KB support including mouse driven menus
Dedicated servers
Steamworks including Steam Achievements and lower prices through competing retailers
Incredibly optimized even for low end platforms. Built for PC from the ground up
Higher resolution textures and a loaded video options menu
I was doubting this would be the case, but after seing GB's quicklook it all made sense. Streaming is wonky on consoles with the menu and sound lag, with long ass loading times. On PC it looks buttery smooth and loading a new area from warping is done in like 2 seconds, from a non SSD drive. Oh man it's gonna be good.